Jan24th Ccl NOTES & Mtgs/Events to Feb 6th

by Carolanne Reynolds, Editor

This issue:  Rumblings/gRumblings; Events/Mtgs to Feb 6th with the Rally for Olympic Sustainability (Eagleridge Bluffs) announcement; Jan 24th Ccl NOTES (Pesticide Ban; Arts/Culture Strategy $80K/$500K; uncovenanted trees; wanna see for more than a week the Ten-Year Capital Plan yet to be released???; public can speak even if Public Mtg closed! and now discover an extra $80K found to include in operating budget, is there more and do we have choices? but don't use the S-word -- Supplementals); Quotations; Haiku

+++++  RUMBLINGS  +++++
=  Plans continuing for Heritage Week Feb 21 - 27;  look forward to the free snowshoe and barbecue on Cypress as well as the Heritage Fayre at Park Royal South Sunday (27th) -- if you're a non-profit volunteer group, call 922 4400 if you'd like a table to show the community what you do, how your group contributes to WV and invite more to join.  Volunteerism is a  precious/asset/cornerstone of Canada's heritage/character richness........
=  Reports on the Olympic Cmte's cmnty workshop and the Arts & Culture Strategy are now available.
=  Ask for the latest news on plans for Ambleside Park.
=  Let staff and Ccl know whether you prefer demolition/buildinganew or restoration/renovation of Gleneagles Clubhouse.
=  Eagleridge Bluffs info at www.eagleridge.ca or www.eagleridge.com and Rally Feb 1st.
Planned upgrades for 15th Street include: removal and replacement of existing pavement; new sidewalks, curb and gutter; pedestrian upgrades, including wheelchair ramps and pullouts; bus stop upgrades; for info, call Engineering at 604-925-7026 or email:  gwatt@westvancouver.ca
=  DWV starting plans for information technology without reinstating the ITAC?
=  Deadline for cmnty group grant applications to Ccl is Jan 31.

............   gRUMBLINGS    ............
= Double/Triple Booking
Look at the meetings on Wednesday and Thursday below.  There used not to be events on at the same time so that councillors and residents cd attend events/mtgs they find of interest and be informed on topics, some basic to participating meaningfully in municipal governance and plans.
= Lack of Notice for Mtgs
Then there are cmte mtgs that don't even have the pitifully minimal 48 hours' notice that's a 'guideline'.  Even all the members weren't notified for the last Sports & Rec Facilities Planning Cmte so that just the chair turned up; requiring frantic phone calls.  Mtg cd be held b/c it only required one summoned to make quorum, ie two.  But then, those mtgs are held at the 'call of the chair' and they're doing whatever they can so construction can start on the Central/Civic Cmnty Centre this year before the election in November.........

+++++  MTGS/EVENTS to Feb 6th  +++++

=== Wed, Jan 26th ======================
~ 5 - 7pm ~ Planning AC in Ccl Chamber: Wetmore and Evelyn Drive
~ 5:30 - 7pm ~ Finance AC at Hall has updates on: the EAC and Sports/Rec Fac Planning Cmtes; the workgroups on Cmnty Benefit Review, Water Conservation, and Hollyburn Lease; Dir/Finance's current issues; also items on Ccl referrals and 2010 Cmnty Cmte
~ 6 - 8pm ~ Public Mtg on 15th Street Road Reconstruction Project at Pauline Johnson School, 1150 - 22nd (Susan Gratien) TBC
~ 7 - 9pm ~ Library Bd (Peters Room in Library):  *** MOVED from JAN 19th ***
 ~ 7pm ~ WV Historical Society general mtg at Srs' Centre
Guest Speaker: Dr. Tom Calder.  One of his major contributions to the community has been the creation of the West Vancouver Adult Pops Band.

=== Thurs, Jan 27th ======================
~ 4 - 6pm ~ Police Bd in the Ch of Commerce Boardroom
~ 4:30 - 6:30pm ~ Design AC in Ccl Chamber - CANCELLED
~ 5 - 7pm ~ NSACDI, CNV M Hall.
~ 7 - 9pm ~ Talk at the Library:
Charles Clapham, author of Great Walks of Vancouver, will use slides and maps to show how to walk in easy stages through the Lower Mainland.

=== Sat, Jan 29th ======================
~ 3 - 5pm ~ NSh Wetlands Partners mtg at WV Youth Centre
~ 8pm ~ Bernard Cuffling performing an evening of Noel Coward at Presentation House.
Phone 990 2474 to reserve; tix $20 going to Tsunami Relief Fund.

=== Sun, Jan 30th ======================
~ 11 - 3pm ~  Aquatic Centre's First Birthday Celebration
Free Admission, including access to the Health and Conditioning Centre
11 am - 12:30: pm Relax, Refresh, Rejuvenate - Enjoy a selection of spa and fitness features
12:30 - 1pm: Official Ceremony - Refreshments, entertainment, success stories, birthday cake
1 - 3 pm:  Complimentary Leisure Swim - Fun for people of all ages
Register for a complimentary workshop by calling 604-925-7210 or visit westvancouver.ca
~ 2:30 ~  Pacific Baroque Orchestra at WV United Church
Australian Brandenburgs Paul Dyer and Lucinda Moon, director and concertmaster of the Australian Brandenburg Orchestra, return after their triumphant performance last season to perform as soloists in Bach's 5th Brandenburg Concerto, B-minor Suite, and Double Violin Concerto.

=== Mon, Jan 31st ======================
There may be the often Arts and Culture Strategy mtg at 8:30 (or work over?); may be announced closer to mtg date

=== Tues, Feb 1st  ======================
~ 11am ~ Coalition to save Eagleridge Bluffs: A Public Rally for Olympic Sustainability [See just below]
~ 3:30 - 5:30 ~ YAC at Hall
~ 7 - 9pm ~ CSAC in Ccl Chamber

=== Wed, Feb 2nd  ======================
~ 6 - 10pm ~ PEAC at Hall (it rarely goes beyond 8:30)

=== Thurs, Feb 3rd  ======================
~ 3 - 8pm ~  Water Metering Open House in Ccl Chamber



When:            TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 1ST

Where:          11:00AM - VANOC OFFICE, 1095 W. PENDER (AT THURLOW)
                      11:30AM - 12:30PM - HYATT HOTEL, 655 BURRARD  ST 

     The Coalition invites members of the public to a Rally on Tuesday, February 1st at 11:00 a.m. beginning outside the offices of the Vancouver Olympic Committee (VANOC) at 1095 West Pender Street, and proceeding up Burrard St. to the Hyatt Hotel at 11:30 a.m. where International Olympic Committee president Jacques Rogge will be addressing the Vancouver Board of Trade luncheon at 12:00 p.m.
     The purpose of this protest is to make clear to the IOC that the citizens of British Columbia are demanding that VANOC and the B.C. Government be held to their Olympic promise of sustainability.  Regarding the Sea To Sky Highway upgrade, a  tunnel around Eagleridge Bluffs and the wetlands is the only sustainable choice.  An overland highway is not.
     We invite you to visit our webpage www.eagleridgebluffs.com and we welcome any questions or requests for further information.  Please direct them to;
Dennis Perry, President   604-921-6556                       denper@shaw.ca
Sponsored by:        The Coalition To Save Eagleridge Bluffs at Horseshoe Bay
     We are being stonewalled on the money issue and were also told there is not enough time to build the tunnel. This is not true as according to one of the top boutique tunnel engineering firms (in San Francisco) in the world, the tunnel can be built in under 3.5 years.
     Stonewalled means the province will not meet with the various levels of government to figure this out. Time and money (the gap is very narrow) are only an excuse. We don't really know why.
     The only way we can change the government's mind is through public pressure and Feb 1 is a unique opportunity given the IOC presence.


Best regards,
Dennis Perry
President of the Coalition

 +++  CCL MTG NOTES Jan 24  +++ draft transcript typed during mtg +++++
Applicant:  Crescentview Investments Ltd.
Affected Lands:  605 Clyde Avenue
Purpose:  To provide for development of a four-storey 17-unit seniors-oriented strata apartment building, with 23 underground parking spaces, accessed from an opened and improved 6th Street right-of-way.
Proposed Zoning Bylaw Amendment:  To rezone the property from C.R.1 (Commercial Restricted Zone 1) to an amended R.M. 8 (Multiple Dwelling Zone 8)
Proposed Development Permit:  To regulate and impose conditions respecting the form and character of the development.

SJN answered questions Ccl raised previously; report from Stephen Mikicich (Planning Dept), then:
1.9FAR for adjacent Amica; legal structure; $100K for undergrounding
1.75 on smaller site
Mr Manji, President, before speaking said the CEO, Mr Landucci, the other company (Crescentview), spoke last week:
we were optimistic wrt demand; pre-leasing usu 6 - 8 mos prior
78 independent units and 34 assisted living; expectation that 25 to 30% will be pre-leased (prior) to opening
we're three months away from opening and 55% of the indep stes already spoken for
shows demand/need
605, similar component, but cater to younger senior (average 70 - 75) whereas rental av age is 80 yrs old
[met with staff; proceeded on that basis]
had to assess economics again; this is smaller than other projects we've done
fine line we're treading
these are 17 suites, smaller than others we've done
confident will provide additional benefit to age we're catering to
VD:  some questions to Head of Planning
more interested in process getting to 1.75
what FSR did Millennium get for Park Royal Hotel site?
SJN: for combined rental and main site, 1.6
VD: and this combined is 1.89?
SJN: main Amica site is 1.9FAR and this is 1.75 so this wd bring it down to 1.83
VD: remind me of the cmnty benefits Millennium provided on their project
how many rental units?
SJN: can't remember, perhaps 12
other cmnty benefits provision for bridge across creek
provision of land on riverfront, common land
built into it was also the cost of relocating 6th St and undergrounding of wiring on 6th and Clyde
VD: based on fact Millennium put in quite a few benefits, how do those cmnty benefits compare?
they got to 1.6, Amica is 1.8 whatever it is; they don't have an absolute right to go to 1.75, cmte/zoning and report said up to 1.75
so what was staff's, ah background to get to that? why didn't you stop at 1.5?
SJN: the original application for Pk Royal Hotel site was 1.75
was higher, bonusing for rental
it was the analysis of the physical impact of the site and impact on design considerations, adjacent to creek, that 1.6 ie physical led to reduction related to physical
this was adjoin to bldg five storeys; approval by PAC and DAC and staff believes design accommodates site
larger parcel, Ccl may consider up to 1.75, higher if extra cmnty benefit such as rental
by combining strata with rental, congregate living with rental, wd justify going to 1.75
up to Ccl to decide if 1.75 justified
VD: south side of Clyde, and issue of density of how you get from 1 to 1.75 and didn't stop anywhere in between
curious at Millennium stopped at 1.6, cut back, but Amica is sitting there at 1.75, putting underground wiring, spending $90K, whereas Millennium is building 12 rental units that will be there forever
if we see another of these projects going forward, will we see you contemplate stopping at 1.5?
SJN: we've never reviewed based decision on density [alone?] in terms of cmnty benefit; we see if it meets land use and acceptable design
change in zoning taking place and what additional benefits
when this started off at 17 strata units (as sole benefit); thought it shd be considered further, and went to Planning Cmte
through negotiations we were able to secure underground services and owner indicated they cd fit that within their budget
VD: big point is they will be operated as a single facility
how does that work with a strata bldg?
we had restrictions on one at 22nd, age limit, sell at 85% of market value, etc and after about five or ten years, they came back and said can't make a go, need younger people, take those restrictions off, and Ccl did
SJN: don't believe age taken off; believe coincidental with provincial; believe it was 55 and over; we did take off that they had to sell their units at a percentage of the market value
another provision re manager's suites, again taken off
in this case, our legal said a restrictive covenant; applicant said if Ccl wants more complicated, 18-unit strata okay as well
VD: suggest we use a narrow method; doesn't actually cover operation; how can we enforce part that's have to provide services and have to buy them
SJN: our lawyers indicate it can be done by restrictive covenant
if Ccl wishes to proceed, go to second and third reading and not final adoption until lawyers provide the covenants, ie bldg A cannot until B, etc; this cannot occur until A or B, etc.

Agenda Amended adding 7.x etc; and withdrawing 4.2 Fees and Charges

3.1       Public Hearing/Public Meeting Minutes, January 10, 2005
3.2       Council Meeting Minutes, January 10, 2005

4.         REPORTS
4.1       Amendment to Business Licence Bylaw - Odours/Noise (Business Licence Bylaw) Amendment Bylaw
Designated Presenter:  Director of Administrative Services
RECOMMENDED:  THAT the report dated January 13, 2005 from the Manager of Bylaw & Licencing [sic] Services re Amendment ... be received for information.
{For language lovers: licence is the noun and license is the verb; this shd be Licensing (the present participle).}

SSch (MClk): this is an interim report; staff are still compiling add'l info; proposed this for interim info and to be brought back mid-Feb when info compiled
Ken Farquharson: it's a disappointment to see this item carried forward
We [gave addresses] first approached Ccl in September, have provided direct evidence from expert
we wish to get the right result but wd be happier if sooner b/c we are suffering
day by day and week by week as you go through your deliberations
Ali Bakhtiari: Happy New Year to everyone
took legal assistance; talked to GVRD re air quality
they have a bylaw existing and even bylaw enforcement for WV area, restaurants not part of that and if complaint have mediation
perhaps b/c something from a restaurant is nothing that will injure you
they said that WV is under GVRD jurisdiction
talked to Health Dept of Noise, and it's within Noise Bylaw
if there's an issue, ready from Day One, if any mediation
if there's any problem there was always an open door
that's our standing at this point
this is starting to put pressure on my business
Sop: when we went to your establishment and saw the steel hood and venting, have you made any efforts to do anything to the shroud on the roof wrt noise
AB: was open to Biz and Lic of the City; owners of commercial units and residents mtg to see, but waiting for an answer from the residents, didn't come to mtg
Sop: made any prep to put in a device to quell the odour?
AB: a few different solutions; once estimate is $60K, every six weeks charge to clean filter
at this point too expensive
back to odour, if you go around the block, no odour
must realize that when you prepare the food is when you have the odour; we prepare food for two hours, the rest of the day serving, under warmers; so only about two hours
even a residential unit wd have two hours
Sop: do you prepare food for others, after midnight?
AB: just for our own restaurant
been four or five months we haven't had 24 hours operation
Sop: if you're preparing and a resident opens a window, that's okay if they can or cannot open a window in the evening
AB: this is a public business
we are not there to create problems
if odour bothering the residences, our fan is situated on the fourth floor; if the wind some way will affect some of the residents
other restaurants [in nbrhd] are in first or second floor; like a tunnel
maybe the odour everyone is complaining about is not ours; ours on fourth floor so shdn't go into that alleyway
Sop: if push comes to shove wd you put in a scrubber?
AB: we suggested that the first day
unbelievable they didn't go for that
owner of commercial bldg, me, some strata owners to pay share
share wd be minimal
costs are not enormous to put a wall around
VD: when you report back (Planning), cd you include hours of operation
understand this restaurant is operating long hours
curious as to how long restaurants working, door open or shut? all night? or? if I cd find that out
and whether staff is actually doing wrt this breach of bylaw
RB, DoAS: staff are evaluating the noise situation and will be taking further tests to verify readings
VD: and if breach, whose responsibility to cure?
RB: operator and owner of establishment
JF: important we resolve this bylaw as soon as possible for the sake of all affected

4.2       Fees and Charges Bylaw No. 4414, 2005
Designated Presenter:  Director of Administrative Services (to be circulated in the Supplemental Agenda)
{What's the problem?  if not ready, put it on next agenda!  why give very little time for the public to see the bylaw?  What's the urgency?  what criteria are there to allow staff to withhold/shorten time from/for the public?}

4.3       Proposed Pesticide Use Control Bylaw
Designated Presenter:  Director of Parks and Community Services
1.         Pesticide Use Control Bylaw No. 4377, 2004 be introduced and read a first and second time.
2.         Council direct the Parks and Community Services Division to draft a formal "Pesticide Use" Policy with respect to internal operations within both Departments.
3.         Council direct staff to prepare a public education and awareness strategy and budget.

Doug Leavers: draft bylaw; sent out for further review by public.
Steve Jenkins: slides to introduce the proposed bylaw
feedback over seven months
implementation date January 2006
some products will be permitted (Schedule A)
can apply for exemptions (eg our golf course)
date consistent with other municipalities, eg New Westminster and Port Moody
PEAC's position paper is attached
they favour an integrated Pest Management approach (IPM) in conjunction with edu and awareness
majority support of such a bylaw; draft report from Recycling Program (3Ms); numbers from survey 39% strongly in favour, 63% in favour or strongly in favour; 27% opposed and 12% strongly opposed
proposed bylaw here for you, know education and awareness needed
partnership - North Shore and Vancouver; benefits
VD: apart from homeowners, who are the biggest users of pesticides?
SJ: M does on both golf courses and nursery, anyone in lawn care biz, et Lawn Bowling
Club, Capilano Golf Course
VD: do I read exemptions for Klee Wyck and Capilano Golf Course (CGC)?
Klee Wyck is our own operation only two reasons, outbreak of fungus and weeds
everything wd be internal and the bylaw exempts inhouse/internal uses
VD: not a gardener but roses?
SJ: I'm not a horticulturalist but understand there are other ways of controlling (re roses)
VD: definition of cosmetic but that word not in bylaw
is that not an outright ban of pesticides?
SJ: if you look at some of the permitted pesticides
sticky tape, some things to control a specific pest
the focus of this bylaw is for the use on lawns
over 40% of those who said they used pesticides said they used them on the lawn
focused on lawn care
VD: word cosmetic is redundant, it's a ban on pesticides
SJ: not used in bylaw
VD: big issue is lawns, what does Capilano Golf Course use?
SJ: spot applications of fungicides only and through working with us, they've removed some trees and reduced usage
they spot use, where fungus likely
VD: isn't that what a homeowner does?
SJ: the difference between a spot and broad spectrum, actually quite different
VD: if you're going to ban it shd be everyone, us and the Golf Course
JF: exemption for a specified time and condition or blank?
SJ: we're working on that
wd be a one-year exemption
have to present an IPM plan to the province; we'd receive that
JF: impact this wd have on landscaping businesses, gardening stores, etc., any implications for them
give us some idea of feedback
SJ: from lawncare companies, this is not going to be a fun time and others have said this is great
already some companies already ahead of this paradigm shift, a biz opportunity
went to a website a couple of years ago had weed and feed and now it has alternatives
everyone understands we're going down this road
people seeing it as a biz opportunity
thinking of having a registration list, with organic ones
JF: wd licensing know not [using] pesticides?
SJ: yes
JC: at end has results of cmte
says a consensus was taken, an IPM approach
the Ccl report had not been fully complied with
says IPM based on premise with strong education, may not need to have bylaw
ability of staff to enforce
July 3 2002 mtg, a couple of speakers [at PEAC] dealt with organic soil management, one does consulting for the Ms
Michael Dean says ban and educate, wd be crazy to ban outright
why ignored cmte?
SJ: this is a new advisory cmte; the IPM rule still advocates the use of pesticides and our own staff investigations into this and looking at the alternatives and looking at other Ms, not best; yes we have listened to cmte, but other notes they say a bylaw cd be a catalyst for education
they do acknowledge some benefits to a bylaw
tried to balance PEAC with what residents thought, from ban everything to ban nothing
this is what staff is recommending at this time
JC: worthy of consideration result in bylaw being read first and second time

Mayor asked for public input

Iain Forsythe, dentist and PEAC mbr: want to reply to a comment Steve made
he was somewhat incorrect; the PEAC has consistently recommended the IPM, 2002, 2003, and 2004
the majority of WV residents are intelligent and will comply without the bylaw
people are living longer and healthier than ever before
past 20? years we've been using pesticides and been living longer
cancer rates, allergies, etc. every conceivable condition except TB, syphilis, etc -- this started in a magazine [cited it]
propaganda (in past) re fluoride -- be careful, Mr Mayor, what you put on your toothbrush
this sort of propaganda leads to in my opinion a culture of anxiety
scare tactics
recently DWV pamphlet put out says M uses no pesticides in open space parks except on golf courses and nursery.....
Golfers like us then are a sort of 'unterMenschen'
Saw Arnold Palmer, must have played on courses all his life, and at 75, he looked great
this report mentions M also used EcoClear, same natural ingredients as vinegar and lemon juice
vinegar is simply acetic acid, but at a hell of a price $12.99 per litre vs $2.99 per litre for common vinegar in local store
what to know why when you and I get vinegar on our fish and chips but if we put on lawn, weeds get treated with organic vinegar; I think there's an element of lunacy
Not only that EcoClear has a govt warning about its dangers; kind of strange the govt of Canada doesn't insist Roundup have a warning in its concentrated form
be willing to discuss some of these........ vast majority don't really work, only work partially
people who are going to make money are those who make these things
the ones that work are those that science
believe we've been looked after very well by our govt, our universities, our physicians
we'll enjoy a good standard of life and will be for many years to come
Hugh Hamilton:  resident for over 40 years
wrt Section 3.1, the discussion element, particularly wording "restrict re cosmetic"
is it not possible to restrict without the necessity of a bylaw
cosmetic use is defined in the report as purely an aesthetic pursuit
there are many aesthetes in WV, who use minimal amounts of pesticides, whether for plants such as special roses or rare Himalayan rhododendrons
a policy cd be designed that wd not impact their work
how do you separate these from vegetables whether to save money, better taste, or without residuals from pesticides (on those in grocery store)?
percentage growing those vegetables/flowers probably very small
what's percentage applied to lawns? 90%? cosmetic pesticides applied to many lawns
why punish the vegetable/fruit growers, the specialists?
why not design something re lawn? lawn pesticides
there are ways restrictions can be applied
why not some sort of mechanism?
united with IPM
that way everyone cd win and a way worked out
Michelle Gibson: 3995 Bayridge, want to respond briefly to the first speaker
talked about basic intelligence will provide a fail/safe mechanism for voluntary compliance
cd make same argument re seatbelts, makes common sense but ended up making a law; common sense does not always prevail
Psych 100 will tell you if bylaw not there, people will break it
we are now at a time that this is a sensible course of action
wrt getting everything from allergies to cancer, but I wd argue that bylaws like this have helped
physicians years ago didn't use soap and lost babies, took time for this to be proven
that's why we're living longer
Arnold Palmer may be looking good
but you cd also say there are a lot of people who smoke and don't get cancer
are we going to look at the few or the many?
govt of Canada and scientists -- but again they said it was all right for pregnant women to smoke or drink
they like the rest of us, learning curve
urge you to err on the side of caution
...must take direct steps
why not if alternatives?  why are we even hesitating?
{some applause}
Sop made motions.
this is not a bylaw to ban the sale of pesticides
since Supreme Court action in Hudson Quebec, how many Ms have banned, looked at banning
remember when we first tried to bring this, a couple of years ago, not even a look
these issues not just last three or four years, been going on on private and not private lands
what gives catalyst to move forward
recognizing that pesticides may be harmful to humans and animals
catalyst is this bylaw
many across nation have made this statement
we took 25 years to discuss poison or toxin like Diazanon; no longer available
JF: I too will be supporting the motion, in favour of the bylaw
a couple of issues, and some rationale; many years ago when I was just a child watching Ed Sullivan
Comedian, Phyllis Diller flippant remark, talking about housework, apparently they won't kill you, but why take that chance?
don't mean to reduce to flippancy
govt is telling me won't kill me
love this cmnty, little creatures, streams
if we'd put all these pesticides with this runoff -- why take that chance?
what effect on all these?
haven't heard one good reason, good reasons to be skeptical; and lots of what to gain
I have godchildren and pets and cdn't put any on my lawn thinking of them rolling around
important issue for WV and people will be happy to comply with the bylaw
just shdn't be taking the chance
[some applause]
G-J: have supported this all along
spent some time at the booth at Ambleside in the summer
people came up and said, I didn't realize
one woman said to me I decided to look to see what our lawn guy was putting on our lawn, four jars of stuff full of toxic chemicals! so I fired him
felt fully responsible
bylaw is not a threat, it's a statement of our preferred future
actually following the lead of the cmnty, 78% approved
natural gardens tour this year had 700
raised awarenenss
health of ourselves and our environment
as a result of our work, DNV and CNV asked this bylaw be forwarded to them so hope will be North Shore-wide
even Vancouver looking at it, ban starts Jan first 2006, and partnering with us in major public edu and awareness prog
Cap Golf Course feel driven to reduce, by membership
removal of trees, reducing use of fungicide
as far as scare tactics go, don't think that's what anyone is trying to do
27 dead birds at Ambleside; pesticides are supposed to be applied with water, wasn't, froze, and they died of Diazanon poisoning, that's a risk people have to know they're taking
really good shape when being let by residents
VD: I'm one of the guys with poor education
interested one lady stopped; one lady says once knows, stops
we do know, smoking kills but I don't remember a ban on private property
we know it kills and no one trying to do that
it is true that we have learnt that seatbelts do work; and if hadn't been for some govt regulation wdn't have had seatbelts
the learning is the important point
even staff will tell you there is no intent of enforcing the bylaw
you will have to catch your nbr, phone, and by the time he gets there ---
there will be no enforcement
the problem is the bylaw
will make us feel good
but education is
if you have bylaw and no intention to enforce, staff will tell you no budget; that's why the PEAC cmte doesn't really support the bylaw; say it might help in giving some backup; education, IPM
nothing in this motion wrt IPM; presume we're not doing that any longer and told if you don't do that bylaw won't work either
Cmte [cites parts of the report and motion]; what's not in motion is how we're going to educate the public; see it tonight, on TV, maybe in NShNews; then --
someone said bulk of problem lawns
someone suggested we shd actually ban use of pesticide on lawns but not on roses, and I'm showing my total ignorance wrt gardens
one thing about being on Ccl, can't be an expert on everything
staff have been using it on golf course b/c public want to play on green grass
why are we not passing a bylaw on the big issues, on grass?
that's something you can see
sits there for a while, bylaw officer can come by and check
if you look at the bottle, and I've sprayed a bit, it says put a mask on and spray downwind, shd be some indication
says budget but don't see a big one
taken with lady and Cclr F saying why take a risk
whereas now brought around, don't think it'll work
not many nbrs will be looking over garden and snitching
we already have enough warfare in WV between nbrs; this is one more weapon to use against your nbrs; edu is where we will cure the health of our children, our nbrs, and ourselves
next week we shd stop people smoking in their houses
RD: Cclr Durman put it well, described use of pesticides: put on a mask and spray downwind; problem is wind doesn't carry it away
but they get into water and air; affects food chain
lot of evidence from fish to eagles....pesticides doing damage
not Arnold Palmer, but maybe his grandchildren at risk
most want to live in cities, urban life
big cities becoming very large, people in cities have to have regulation to protect air, soil, water; if didn't things wd be worse than they are
true WV very, very small, but feds aren't doing their job in the regulation of pesticides; initiative has to come from local; we have and now others
from our little, lots of good come of it
you can have a lovely garden without pesticides
I admit our lawn not green but some wildflowers on it, beautiful in spring
don't like it, can mow it more often
nothing perfect about a weed and green lawn
education probably the best/most effective way -- this bylaw calls for education
not going to apply it till 2006
bylaw reasonably put, balanced, moderate, gives time, it's the right way to go
JC: wonder if you have an inclination to split this; no problem with 2 and 3 but problem with bylaw; agree with Cclr Durman, extremely difficult, impossible to enforce
enough work for bylaw officers now, just chalking tires, and not doing as well as they shd either
if we really wanted to attack this situation, wd be talking about the other 99% of pesticide use, the agriculture industry....then Whole Foods wdn't get $5 for an apple
that's where 99% used, not on lawns
Mayor: can this be split?
SSch: can be done
Mayor: what's the wish of Ccl?
JC: vote on 1, then 2 and 3 separately
G-J: 2 and 3 come from 1
Mayor: not much wish to split
JC: then I'll reluctantly vote for
Sop: Ottawa has been at it for three years now
compliance has been phenomenal
but need the stimuli, formal application of a law
I don't think enforcement will be a problem at all; as many of us have felt, this is not good for us and our animals
[8:40 PASSED and applause]
VD: I'd like to propose another motion
wd like to have a copy of the bylaw sent to every resident in WV
if educate, let's start
the whole thing is to gain input; why not start it now
starts education process, send it to every resident
what's the harm?
G-J: don't disagree but we're at second reading
VD: we don't want public input?
G-J: had it for three years
Sop: reasonable for staff to prepare a public education program
logical step rather than hit and miss
DL: we'd be working with North Shore Recycling
at mtg will be creating a locally-based program: website, flyers
Mayor: back within a month?
VD: I am saying, we've taken a bylaw where we expect public input
why is everyone afraid of sending it to everyone
I hear some afraid b/c they might not get --
we voted, what's the harm?
JF: will not be supporting this motion and not b/c of any fear
we deal with many, many contentious issues
many groups are pleased and others not pleased
and if we're not going to send every one that's contentious, why this one?
watching it on TV, reading in news......
MMgr: really purpose, format
we cd put something together more informative than a bylaw
notwithstanding that, purpose is to get input; we've had surveys
not sure we'd be able to get information out and answers back in time
RD: shd discuss in Tidings
Mayor: not sure enough room/material in Tidings, my only concern
MMgr: we cd do that; whatever Ccl wants to do wrt communication; pass this and can inform residents
surely intention of motion is to develop an edu prog
it has been the subject of discussion for some years, fair bit of news coverage
VD: as bylaw isn't coming into effect until a year from now, whether we pass it next week or the week after that, as long as it gets passed is the point
if you want people to comply, surely by consultation, bring people in early to the process..... here we are bringing it in sat first and second reading
we're doing two things, we're informing the people the bylaw is coming
Mayor: why not take the MMgr's suggestion as to a circular rather than a bylaw
VD: sorry, current bylaw is two to three pages; just needs to be put it into an envelope
haven't even got a budget for it
surely Ccl can afford stamps and send it out, easiest thing going -- what's the problem?
unanimously voted now arguing how to get it out
Mayor: concern, the vast majority of public not familiar with reading bylaws
sending the bylaw in its current form wd not have the desired result
want to stay with the original motion
VD: yes
JC: and wd have just that result
something unusual to receive wd read it but another little postcard, don't know if they wd read it; agree this wd be a better form
G-J: so pleased and proud of all mbrs of Ccl just passed [part 3], and fact CNV and DNV and City of Vancouver going to look at this next Monday
opportunity; if includes sending bylaw then by all means
probably best timing and impact is two three weeks from now when others.....
City of V has a whacking big budget;  want to work with them; real step forward
really want to work with North Shore
Sop: think it can be sent in future
staff is going to have to come up with an education program broader than in the past
a strategy and a budget
this is a major first; a wonderful thing happening here, for WV and rest of NShore and all of Canada to follow
let's have staff present us with an education program they've been working on
strategy and some dollars attached; gonna get everyone in compliance
SSch: for clarity: motion is a copy of bylaw be sent to every residence in WV
Mayor: as I recall
G-J: like tomorrow?
Mayor: Mr Leavers says he's going to have a meeting--
VD: within; uh when I say tomorrow, presume a bit more to fold them up and put them in envelopes
within two, three days
DL: we'll be mtg with other coordinators (two NVs) next week to talk about awareness and edu progs as well as roles and local initiatives
MMgr: believe Cclr VD clarified to say within week

4.4       Development Permit Application 04-018 (4674 Clovelly Walk)
Designated Presenter:  Director of Planning, Lands & Permits
THAT Development Permit No. 04-018 (4674 Clovelly Walk) which would provide for a future two-lot subdivision with variances to site width for both lots and a variance to highest building face for the house on proposed Lot 1 be approved.
SJN: on agenda last week
one issue raised by Ccl -- whether to have a tree-cutting covenant adjacent to the road
you'll notice on the sheet before you two options
approve as currently drafted, alternative excluding provision for a tree covenant
concern whether such covenants shd apply on single properties
G-J: for clarification: recommendation this week reflect a shift from last week?
SJN: Cclr  Durman will be making the motion and has a choice of A or B
G-J: arrows indicate a choice

CR: thank you very much, Mr Mayor; just a point of clarification
Mayor: need your name and address
CR: Sorry. Carolanne Reynolds, Editor of West Van Matters, 1065 24th
The question was that, when a Public Hearing is closed, then the public are not allowed to comment.
This Public Meeting was closed, so I just want to clarify, that means that even though a Public Mtg is closed, the difference is that the public are still allowed to comment?
Mayor: Madam Clerk
SSch: that is correct, Your Worship
The Public Mtg requirements do not carry the same statutory obligations as a Public Hearing does
Mayor: Pardon?
SSch: The Public Hearing requires a statutory requirement to close and no longer receive public input when the Public Hearing is closed.
The Public Mtg does not carry that same requirement so input at a Public Mtg can close but mbrs of the  public are still able to comment
CR: thank you very much, that's very helpful

********** see PQP below for more info, followup ****************
VD: anyone, over the last fifteen years, will have observed I have fought for greenbelts
picture of myself [sic] and Mr info on front of NSNews went to bat against Mr Nicholls re loss of greenbelts many years ago on the Caulfeild Land Use Contract
since then got along b/c we have seen eye to eye on many issues
SJN interjecting:; believe we were on the same side on that issue as well
VD: I spent many many years fighting Ccl and staff  to preserve the greenbelt in the LUC out at Caulfeild
got trails,
never did agree with greenbelts on private property --
so LUC can have public trails going through them
greenbelt covenants on private property difficult to control
today Mr N just mentioned (when I spoke with him this afternoon) that a new staff member did not remember (but new so why expected) that when someone calls and asks can I cut down a tree -- the question is if on priv prop;  the answer is yes if on private property, but not on public property
only public land, sacrosanct
over the years I have always argued against the imposition of greenbelts on private property
Mayor: I'm going to ask you wch motion you're going to make, then discuss
VD: getting there b/c there is a choice public shd know
if you want, okay, I'll make it now
therefore in LUC of Caulfeild, adjoining bands through whole nbrhd, barriers of trees
these are two lots with a 30ft covenant proposed stuck on front
applicant has shown a great desire to retain the trees
if they'd gone the standard subdiv route and cd hv done, 80 trees wd hv bn removed; but desire retaining the gravel driveway, can keep 60 to 80 trees, went to trouble, therefore this is completely unnecessary
doesn't adjoin any other greenbelt
someone called me during the week saying we need to protect the greenbelt of Clovelly Walk
difference; Clovelly Walk to west of this, a gorgeous pathway with a major greenbelt all down one side, and yes we shd protect that; but this is Clovelly Walk with tarmac, and it is gorgeous ...  pristine; and the people who buy houses in that area like houses surrounded by trees, so not going to be pestering each other to cut trees down, and if they do, the owner can say no
see no reason to have covenant
Sop: for applicant to say we want to identify certain trees, save and work with M
using Chapman Surveying and our staff to identify, and in fact they removed some trees; they want to have this sense of trees, some 100 years
I lived there for some years
always intrigued me the amount of forested area in area; in Clovelly Walk in last remaining piece of prop in Land Use Contract; easterly end of that subdiv, surprise to everybody, when greenbelt provided was very, very sparse, thought it wd be significant barrier but very few trees in 50 to 75ft length
but I witnessed illegal removal of branches
Clovelly Walk and Road is a green forested area--
complies with wishes and if these people wish to comply --
if do something in future, wd ask M to help, not a major
applicant said wdn't mind covenant, work of staff, don't see anything wrong
G-J: covenant suggested by staff and accepted by applicant, think proposal is a show of good faith, tremendous
nbrhd probably grateful b/c a redevt that takes into account context and values of the nbrhd
really what most people in WV wd like to see and don't always see
for that reason, this applicant shd not have to be encumbered by a covenant b/c most people don't want their properties to be encumbered
JC:  agree with that stmt; think this applicant has shown remarkable responsibility and respect for the land and the property; said don't need it but wd go along with it
we'd be intruding
Sop: it's a two-lot subdiv, what happens to the trees in the other lot?
when they gave a portion of the prop to the M for ROW, was the intent to have infrastructure coming in centre, to prevent removal of trees, and that's why they/we gave extra property
SJN: very small, believe where common driveway
Mayor: little indentation
SJN: where they are common; haven't worked out exactly where the services are going
retaining wall so M can maintain it
very few trees on that part, expect significant ones to remain, main on big prop
Sop: so just greenbelt covenant public vs private land
SJN: and major portion of greenbelt is on western end of prop, in and around the existing gravel driveway
Sop: is greenbelt part of M ROW?
SJN: no, there is no greenbelt now
the pavement is on the M right-of-way; it's appox 31, 32 ft
Mayor: Now, what most people are waiting for
before I ask Mr Leavers to speak to this, I want to take this opportunity to thank Cclr Ferguson for chairing this cmte....  meeting with virtually all of the cultural comnty and coalescing to a comprehensive report --
Ms Dexter, are you speaking?
OD: no
DL: Josie Chuback, Mgr of Cmnty Services
4.5       Arts and Culture Strategy
Designated Presenter:  Director of Parks and Community Services
1.         The Arts and Culture Strategy dated January 14, 2005 (Appendix 1) be adopted as the foundation for arts and culture development in West Vancouver.
2.         The recommendations identified in the strategy be approved.
{listed on slides; all on M website but you probably can pick up a copy}
3.         The priority actions requiring operating funds be approved and implemented on a phased basis in 2005 and 2006 as funding becomes available.
***{er, how much money???}
{$80K or $500K depending on what you're talking about}
4.         Capital funds for facility studies and the Kay Meek Centre contribution from the Municipality, be approved for the 2005 budget year.
{Anyone remember that DWV was promised that the centre wd not involve taxpayer money/higher taxes b/c there wd be a fund/foundation/interest generated that wd cover operating expenses.  I support the arts.  I agree with subsidizing the arts -- culture is supported by govts everywhere.  It's disheartening when there are false or broken promises.  Makes it harder for the next group to extract funds.}
5.         Capital funding for the remaining projects recommended in the Strategy be included in the [Ten-Year] Year Capital Plan once the necessary planning and consultation work has been completed.
{And will we be simply presented with a new Ten-Year Capital Plan?  It was withdrawn about a year ago, it was promised last spring when we asked when, however we're still waiting.  And, of course, so much for Capital Plans (whether $40 or 45m) set in stone. 
Now, I have no quibble with changing circumstances/needs resulting in revised estimates or projections.  Again, my problem is with false, misleading, or impossible commitments.}
6.         Staff be directed to bring forward for approval, the policies on Special Events, and on Public Art and Municipal Art Collection.
7.         An Arts and Culture Strategy Implementation Committee be formed as a Select Committee of Council, to make recommendations on actions necessary for the implementation of the Strategy.
Which reminds us.  When are they going to reinstate ITAC (Information Technology Advisory Cmte) when they have computer items on the budget sometimes of $2m and more with the potential of savings and more efficiency in these times of rising taxes?
How come an aspect that involves far less money rates a cmte?
What sort of criteria is being used?
Maybe just b/c there is so little computer expertise it gets ignored or overlooked......}
Josie Chuback: Strategy to 2010 and beyond
key essence is leadership
integrated planning and committing resources
public events, public art -- policy coming
winter festival in February wch will be broadened
cultural facility planning
funding, will be phased
wd like to go through the highlights of the strategy
we connect through celebration and collaboration
arts heritage and culture
growing starting in early 90s
we started in March, did inventory of what we were doing in cmnty
five values drove this process: quality of life and services/facilities; creativity and ####; understanding (with all groups); leadership (cmnty and Ccl); synergy
Ccl Leadership: expectation
build on our unique characteristics
improve communication, collaboration, and cooperation
facilitate environment of creativity
build the cultural economy
Strategies: shaping the future; fill gaps; current successes;
= fundamentals for action: Argyle Waterfront is the arts and heritage precinct
support, celebrate nbrhds
preserve cmnty historic sites (B C Binning house)
need to look at longterm plans to replace some facilities
= filling in the gaps
need to coordinate
look at ways of extending into other part of cmnty
structure of Parks and Cmnty Services; service delivery
need to work with non-profit partners, particularly with WVCAC
with new Cmnty Centre, look at opportunities
wrt 2010, focus on Winter Festival; work has already begun on that strategy
water/biking/walking routes
opportunities to partner, look for new opportunities
Special events, need to encourage and support them; policy; fund events
look at staffing for Harmony Arts and Ferry Bldg Gallery
keep up with surveys, sponsors
need to continue to work with Library, their BOOKtopia coming up
support use of Kay Meek Centre; contemplates matching funding; ensure cmnty access
a lot of potential; emerging leadership
next steps: Ccl leadership, commitment to begin, financial investment
Sop: want to congratulate Cclrs Ferguson and Goldsmith-Jones on this
been amiss for a number of years
with inclusion of Kay Meek Centre, it's time we develop some formal strategy for years to come
a couple of questions
in capital funds for facilities studies and Kay Meek Centre contribution from M to be approved for 2005 budget  -- see figures: Kay Meek operating $100K and see (later page) matching $500K, facility upgrade and facilities studies
in item 4, which monies and where are they coming from in 2005 Budget?
RL: on capital side as Ccl knows we're currently involved in an exercise with you, finalizing ten-year longterm capital plan
current draft working on, provide provisions for culture strategy those funds wd likely come out of surplus prior year's funds  (that's where they're currently cited from)

{hm --
bit difficult to hear, however during Budget 2005 I don't recall being told there were surplus funds that cd be used for something.
Well, it shd come back and hope for more than the one week the Dir of Finance mentioned
We really do have to get the terms straight.
AND LET'S ASK WHAT THE SURPLUS IS -- maybe we'd like a few other things too!
let's see.
no supplements so no choices, public was told unlike last year no money for more (guess that means what staff and Ccl negotiated was the permanent blueprint)......
here suddenly we have reference to a surplus enabling funding of something more that we hadn't been told about
don't you just love this open process?
full disclosure wd also be nice
Can't wait for the next form of the budget to be released.
Then, the Ten-Year Capital Plan -- last one, after about five years was removed from the M website and has yet to reappear though told "soon" from last spring
Don't get me wrong.
ten years is a long time and 'set in concrete' as we were told about the last one is unrealistic
times change --
so do needs.}
Sop: Appendix 2, p159 has  list $15, 17, 5, 31, 30, 17, 11, 1 (thousands), then $100K, so amounts combined that's $200,000 that we will find within this year's budget to meet this demand?
RL: my understanding is the actual strategy is to start out with a more modest amount 2005 and ramping up over the next three to five years reaching that ultimate amount
Sop: larger amts in ten-year capital plan, is that ramping it
RL: no, I'm talking about the operating funds that wd be required
looking at initial envelope of $80K
Mayor's voice, I think, to clarify: operating
RL:  and that wd ramp up in future years
Sop: in $80K wd that include the full-time archivist?
MMgr: yes, on staged basis
wrt capital funding, that's subject to developing and coming to some agreement as to operating and governance guidelines
those discussions are underway
Sop: so this year $80K
Mayor: operating, conceivably, in that area
Sop: then after that, phasing, more dollars wrt operating, and then the Ten-Year capital plan will provide the outlook for future acquisition of dollars, to our commitment to Kay Meek and other --
MMgr: what you have before you [are] some recommendations that have some operating consequences
we have determined that, unless Ccl [were] to change their target for the tax increase 
what we've settled at this point as to parameters for this year's budget; we have $80K to work toward some of those operating costs; wd then reexamine wrt 2006 wrt remaining funding and priorities
wrt the capital amount for the Kay Meek Theatre, that's subject not only to an operating agreement but also to matching funding through grants and private donations
provision has been made in the draft ten-year capital for that capital contribution and we've made provision in this year's operational budget
provided Ccl supports it, move that forward for 2005
Sop: you know we were trying to keep taxes low; have needs for a lot of things
don't have a problem voting for this
there were no supplements this year except for archivist
MMgr: that's correct, Your Worship.

{so there WAS one supplemental --  !!!!!!!!!
or was that a slip of his tongue???
in PQP he says there were NO supplementals
getting some idea now of why this is a bit confusing???}
Sop: full-time archivist to meet that demand, and want to make sure of the $80K it's included
MMgr: that's correct, that was identified as a priority in discussion with Ccl
also been reiterated in the arts and culture strategy
VD: $500K for Kay Meek for what is considered, the non, xxx?
JF: the studio
VD: get terms straight, the studio wch at moment is a concrete box?
Mayor: partially finished; do have a ceiling, floor; but need seats and what have you
MMgr: air handling equipment, seats --
Mayor: about a million dollars to complete it
VD: so we need someone to step up to donate $500K to match ours
operating costs, working out whose with School Board?
MMgr: neg to make sure some shared governance wrt studio, focus on it
shared use: Arts Trust, Sch Bd, and M; sharing in program and access and hours for studio theatre
proposal fixed now for five years at $500K per year, subject to annual review
just starting, so learning experience for all three parties; positive great contribution to arts cmnty
VD: our energy and money aimed at studio
Mayor and MMgr: yes
VD: big box is going to be the School Board's
Mayor: main theatre is Arts Centre Trust
VD: b/c over years this Ccl has been concerned about being drawn into subsidising (operating budget); easy to build capital projects
so if for studio, cmnty will get bang for it; so all in favour
Brian Hemingway: some of you may recognize me, been tapping you on the shoulder for many years
like others, want to applaud you
am sure you're all going to support it with applause
many are here, Friends of the Gallery, established some 18 months ago with two principals on our agenda: perpetrate, put pressure on all of you to pursue a direction for this cmnty, one of some esoteric substance, many have been identified; but the other item, after some study many of us believe due to the wisdom of those who went before you and due to the inordinate efforts of Ruth Payne, one of your staff who seers that gallery/those efforts--
I don't want to get into that other Arts Centre
but a proposal to perpetuate, extend,......cdn't be done better than in that Gallery
some of you have a modest proposal for expansion of that Gallery
urge all of you to get past nickel and dime I know you're burdened with, and explore the notion of this arts and culture future, the proverbial seed that will eventually grow without pesticides into an arts garden
consider not necessarily that proposal, there may be an alternative
sometimes takes a long time to get on with it
takes money
hope some will
majority of WVites do want to get something going for these Olympics
get something at Gallery will be first step to a sprint, not a walk
Jill McRae 2965 Rosebery: as an artist want to commend Mayor Wood for going down this path
fabulous direction to take and in full support
JF: wd like to thank all the cmte and Molly Murray of CSAC, incredibly loyal and showed up at all the mtgs with lots of good advice
[thanked staff, named them]
also want to thank all of the members of the cmnty, forums and workshops, who grabbed us and told us what they wanted in arts, culture, and heritage
really a great pleasure, finally see the ideas and plans, encouraged us
an intense and rewarding process
strategic plan will become cultural realities in next ten years
help us understand the programs presently offered
and to consider the benefits not just the quality of life
work with our plan, our OCP, our devt review plan
also will tie in with the 2010 Olympic Cmte wch I think has changed its name to the Cmnty Spirit Cmte
Mayor, G-J: not yet
JF: and with Parks, can see dovetailing; opportunity for partnerships also outside our cmnty
been an exciting and positive program that we've undertaken
value of arts, culture, and heritage
to see cmnty support
this will will do a lot for arts, culture, and heritage in our cmnty

Motion: implemented on a phased basis as funds available
approved for 2005

G-J: really fun, really worth it
staff were challenged by us; a few tangles, all do-able
implementation cmte right away
significant policy, step for future; Kay Meek Theatre fitting in
hope this is a central piece in revitalization of Ambleside
reason for all this City of Toronto poet laureate Pier Giorgio di Cicco says:
If the daily life is not artistic inspired by intimacy, zest, and sociality, the passion is missing, and a city without passion is a city just of artistic events
build on all the successful events we've had
basic, let's fall in love with ourselves more than ever before
JC: comment on passion is pivotal to this discussion
really a no-brainer; ones you have of about same size tend to be known for that, eg Stratford
building on the passion and quality of life
doesn't take as much money; will be as much fun as working on it the last ten months
probably most emotional cmte work I've ever seen happen
went into this with full support for the concepts and spinoff benefits
jaundiced eye wrt costs; pushed hard for look at operating policy in place at Kay Meek and it's far improved
RD: add my congratulations
spent many years on arts and culture in WV and one of those fields not quite successful
pleased got it together, strategy bodes well for future
delighted progress funding, support of Kay Meek Centre, needs and deserves
hopeful we'll have our art gallery we've all dreamed of for years, have good art gallery but need more capacity wch will house more art, got a lot of artistic resources in WV
don't have means of exhibiting them
once we have facilities, will get donations, more support
become artistic centre
dreams finally going to be realized
Sop: if we look at archivist for $31,000, is remaining balance (of $80K), will we be moving forward fast enough in 2005?
ten-year capital plan, there will have to be some consultation, completion down road a bit
will include the larger numbers for the Kay Meek, matching grants, and facilities upgrade and development studies
assuming enough front money to get this program running
MMgr: we've developed the budget with the cmte
confident sig progress in 2005 and 2006
Sop: not to belabour this, where funds coming from?
are there funds available now?
MMgr: mentioned we've provided an envelope
when you look at some of the requests
some can be introduced later in year to cut costs down in 2005
we have been working with the cmte for ways to move this forward within the budget framework that we have.
VD: Mr Mayor, I want to congratulate you for your leadership setting up the cmte
and the cmte for finally formulating an integrated plan
I'm not normally known for my passion, I'm more known for my logic and financial whereforall
{yup, that's exactly what he said; I must admit I'm a bit puzzled about that last word or quality it might be.}
what I really like about this is bringing together all the pieces
full knowledge not just saying nice things to this group, forgetting another, and then to another group
can really move forward
coalesce together put pressure on us to keep going; very exciting issue
to build on top
look at what the RFMP achieved, by citizens, superb
now we have a plan, put money in sensibly
to achieve
what we want more arts, in particular more public art
RD: add my sentiments to archivist
spent many years on Museum & Archives Cmet and Heritage Cmte
saw need first hand
provided training, they came and went [b/c part-time]
heritage and history are part of the arts and cultural fabric of WV
congratulate, full time archivist, trying for ten years to have and pleased to have it

4.6       Housing Dialogue and Neighbourhood Planning Initiatives:  Proposed Program and Timeline Designated Presenter:  Director of Planning, Lands & Permits
THAT Phase 1 of the Proposed Housing Dialogue Program set out in the report from the Planning Analyst dated January 12, 2005 be approved.
{What?  Excuse me?  without putting the report, program, or initiatives out for public input???}
SJN: recommending phase one; background studies; reports
phase two intense involvement of cmnty; cmnty forum, cmnty workshop, cmnty survey
second phase is called reexamining
trends, implications for longer term
will then be determining vision, now or new b/c of cmnty dialogue
phase one generation of reports, then can be seen

CR; thank you, Mr Nicholls has answered my main questions

Sop: are we examining density
heavy influence of the automobile
primary example if Evelyn Drive
wd this proposal provide for traffic initiatives
SJN: we very carefully drafted this report
one raised during OCP process was what are trends
on p 2 of this report: identified need for cmnty-wide dialogue on trends
process and without predetermined outcomes
[went over phase one]
Sop: don't see anywhere here how we're going to solve this problem
SJN: when dealing with population trends, people will be discussing traffic and services


RD: I read this report and I'll support the motion b/c I found it vague
talking about trends, generalities
in course of OCP we did a lot of these surveys: we know ageing
.....we don't need another study to tell us this
cd do more
need a cmnty dialogue
let's not spend another $150K to find out what we know already
MMgr: the three CEOs have been looking at this
can't just look at surveys as enough and trends
look at impact
try to create some pictures as to how it will affect them
only with that picture you can start a dialogue
create picture people can understand

JF in CHAIR-- Mayor had briefly left chamber

G-J: hope it's in a format dialogue
hold judgements
I'm going to support Phase One; will look for innovation as to how we have that dialogue

VD: wondering why we're worrying about growing b/c we're only growing at .4% so not our growth
amazing how many people stand up and disagree with the facts
hope that the first year is to put the facts clearly, when place, will be no longer this argument about the facts, then we can move on to the real discussion

{Yes, indeed, the facts are important.
Problem is the one VD cited above is not true.
See PQP.}

but thought housing in third phase here shd hv bn in first
issue wrt nbrhds, differences provide different needs and solutions
don't see how we get to nbrhd, that's when real.... wanting it to happen 'over there'
that will be the interesting discussion
JF: for DWV to enter into this without predetermined
hope all will bring the same objectivity
satisfy need of all of us
VD: hope this study, process
this is a two/three-year process
can see some people saying we shdn't do anything till we're through this in two years
had some say no change at all till process over
obviously devt applications will arrive and we will deal with them

5.         BYLAWS
5.1       Zoning Bylaw No. 2200, 1968 Amendment Bylaw No. 4409, 2004 (605 Clyde Avenue)
Sop moved second and third reading
5.2       Bylaw Notice Enforcement Bylaw 4368, 2004, Amendment Bylaw No. 4416, 2005
Designated Presenter:  Director of Administrative Services
This Bylaw received third reading at the January 17, 2005 Council Meeting.
RECOMMENDED: THAT Bylaw Notice Enforcement Bylaw .... be adopted.
RB: expands the provisions, adjudication provisions
Mayor: we've voted on it, it's adopted
Sop: I had my hand up.
Mayor: wish of Council?
[well, they went on to next item]


JF: GVRD mtg 9 till 2:45
providing sound working relationships with First Nations Groups
BC Treaty Commission and others there, history
important for public to understand treaties being negotiated throughout Lower Mainland
interesting to see how they play out
interaction between cmnties, nbrs; will mean a lot of change
find out as much as you can
BCTCl and LMTAC have their own websites
we're going to be living with

G-J: report on an Olympic
top tens for 2010; huge congruence between 2010 thinking and Arts and Culture Strategy
worked on our branding
small scale, village, volunteerism, ....spirit
that will be coming in about a month

JC: at Family Court and Youth Justice Mtg
vice chair is Kathleen Glynn-Morris from WV
came under some question as to activity and cost
last week a report tabled that was a joint effort (DWV, CNV, DNV); supportive, excellent news
a bit of a wake-up call
did our own internal audit
result far stronger functioning group of people

7.1       Correspondence [listed in previous WVM issue]
G-J: I registered to take the UBCM's env'tal conference
better relations on.... policy
VD: speak to Minister


[VD leans over murmuring and JF says "Keynote Address" wch he echoes.]

Carolanne Reynolds:....

before I ask my questions, one of the things about facts Ccl Durman brought up, I'd just like to point out that although some of the [M staff] documentation said .4% increase in population in WV, in fact if you go to the provincial research records on that, the [WV] population has been dropping for the last few years.  So that's just a little thing, and we shd get those facts straight

want to add my congratulations to all of you on the arts and culture strategy
think it's absolutely fantastic
they were thorough; they went everywhere; they listened to everybody; just a marvel to behold, and the sort of public consultation that can be held up as an example for other things that you do.  It was really, really great.  Thank you very much,

when Cclr Day was talking about needing an art gallery, a little light went on in my head.
When we're discussing the Wetmore site, I know that $5.6m that we paid for it has to go back to the Endowment Fund or whatever.  I think that, um, various realtors I've spoken to tell me that property's now worth perhaps [$8m to] $12m - $18m [even more depending on zoning/density Ccl gives], so it was a great move on your part --
Mayor: hope you're right!
CR: but --
Mayor: I don't think --
CR:  you shd look into it --
Mayor: something's wrong with those numbers --
CR: may be right, but the thing that's exciting about that, that occurred to me when I was listening to Cclr Day, is that wdn't it be marvellous to make the bottom floor an art gallery, b/c that's definitely a place that we go by.  If we make the bottom floor an art gallery, and make the top floors condos to pay for it, I think we cd get our art gallery, get it near the cmnty centre, and still have money left over
Anyway, that's just what I thought when you were talking about that [art gallery], I think that's exciting.

Now, there were a couple of things that confused me this evening that I'd appreciate clarification
one is the budget, 2005.  As Cclr Soprovich mentioned [a supplemental] and we were told and it's a little, er we need clarification.  There were supplementals, there were no supplementals -- we heard both of those things --
Mayor: there are no supplementals
CR: There are no supplementals [?!], however the archivist I understand is a supplemental that Ccl wants to add to the budget.  If you consider adding something to the budget, as a supplemental, ah, it might be a case of definition. I don't disagree with your doing that.  I'm just saying that it's a little confusing listening to that when you're discussing adding now to your budget $80K for the archivist and $80K for the Kay Meek Centre.  So all I'm saying is that listening to that is a bit confusing and if you want to explain that later that's fine.  I think it might need some explanation.
Mayor: I think we shd clarify that right now
MMgr: As we prepared the budget in accordance with the target set by Ccl, we got to a position where there was no funds available for supplementals.  We addressed a number of one term [yes, he said term] issues as the final assessment numbers came in.  It was determined that we had some room and on that basis we allocated that room as it were for the arts and culture strategy.  It's a maximum of $80K and so whatever is going to be achieved in terms of recommendation of strategy, from an operating standpoint wd have to come out of that envelope.  That can be achieved within the existing target set by Ccl of 1.95% [tax increase]
CR: so in view --
Mayor:  within that 1.95 percentage

CR: Right.  But it does seem to imply an area of some choice;

{The point I shd have made or made more clearly/forcefully, is that this $80K was a matter of choice, whether you want to call it a supplemental or not.  We were not made aware of these funds.  I'm not necessarily disagreeing with Ccl's consideration of that and if that's the final decision but maybe it would be more 'open, consultative' govt if the public were told that we have an extra $80K -- where wd you like this spent (give options) or shd it be used to lower the tax increase?  The source of these additional funds was described as surplus or from investment.  Was it an even $80K?  Possibly the extra was more -- how much was it exactly?  Maybe we can do even more!}

and also we haven't seen the Ten-Year Capital Plan yet, and all I'm asking is, will the revised budget and the new Ten-Year Capital Plan come out for the public to review for a couple of weeks before you pass it?
G-J: when?
RL: intention for the Ten-Year Capital Plan is to put that out for public comment for a week, roughly a week

{Dear Readers, you may be thinking to yourself here.
The public will only have A WEEK to look at the TEN-YEAR Capital Plan?  It's been promised since last spring.  The last one was over $40m.  Don't you think such a major expenditure and commitment deserves a wee bit more than a week?  I'd think a month at least -- or maybe that draft cd have come out last year while they worked on it -- however note I'm just pleading for two weeks!}

and in terms of the operating budget, it has not changed since Ccl last saw it except for this $80K of assessment room, the MMgr referred to.

{Didn't Dir/Finance earlier during that agenda item say it was from the prior year's surplus?
Cclrs referred to it as a supplemental; now the Dir/Finance refers to assessment room.
Wch is it?}

but those, as a reminder, those items will be brought back
Mayor: so nothing else has changed
G-J: do we know when the budget will be coming forward, roughly?
RL: I anticipate that we'll probably be looking at the Ten-Year Capital by a week today
Mayor: there is no mtg next Monday, so Feb 7th
G-J: and the operating?
Mayor: you're looking at the budget itself the 14th or 21st of February
RL: both at same time
MMgr: cd do them both at the same time
the interesting thing wrt the Ten-Year Capital, we may for example settle on with a great degree of confidence on what our spending plans are for 2005, and then allow greater time for cmnty discussion wrt the remainder of the Ten-Year Capital Plan

{Thought Bubble: good idea, Dave, thx; goes some way toward public consultation!}

RL: the only difficulty with that is that technically the budget is a Five-Year Plan
We will have to adopt at least the first five years of the Ten-Year
Mayor: I'd encourage you, Ms Reynolds, to speak directly to Mr Laing, and I'm sure he'd fill in the blanks for you
CR: Right. uh, I just wd like to encourage Ccl to consider more than two weeks for that information to be public b/c not everybody can look at it in just a week
Mayor: just the Capital Budget you mean?
CR: whether it's the Capital Budget or the Operating Budget --
Mayor: but the Operating Budget hasn't changed as you've seen tonight
CR: Well, then the one with the change or whatever is all I'm saying, in view of process --

{Well, er, not quite what I meant, obviously.  We haven't seen the Ten-Year so of course we want to see that; and it appears the $80K increase is in the Operating Budget.  Just bring 'em both on!}

so, you know usually people say to me a week isn't enough and two weeks wd be better so all I'm saying is that if you can arrange two weeks, that wd be nice.  I know it doesn't have to be passed until May.

CR: the other question was, and I didn't want to debate during the item that was there [earlier in ccl mtg], but the confusion is if you hold a Public Hearing and Public Meeting, at the same time, on the same subject, if someone then wants to speak, are you just going to assume that they're speaking b/c of the [Public] Meeting not the [Public] Hearing b/c that means the rule for the PH is that you cannot speak when it's closed, you cannot speak to Mayor and Ccl, but we've just found out tonight that at a PMtg, you can have public comment, how --
if you don't hold them at different times, I just want to say, you know, it's just a little confusing for the public to know if they can or cannot speak if there's one rule for one and another rule for the other.
Mayor: Madam Clerk?
SSch: that is correct, and it is a little confusing.  We do get queries on that and try our best to explain.   When it has been clarified for Ccl in the past, when a [Public] Hearing and [Public] Mtg that have been held together have closed.  If subsequently members of the public wish to come back and address the Permit portion only, that has been permissible, but no discussion can occur subsequently on the bylaw portion
Mayor: is there anything in writing on that?
Cd we develop anything in writing on that and set that down?
two paragraphs?
Ssch:  We certainly cd, Your Worship.  It has been a long-standing practice wrt how public mtgs are held in WV and we can do that
Mayor: I think that wd be advisable.  Then people can just pick up the little two-pager or two-paragraph --
SSch: we'll put something together
Mayor: thank you
CR: Yes, that wd be helpful, thank you very much and since it's my first time up this year, Happy New Year to everybody!
Mayor: Thank you.

{Appreciate the Mayor is taking this extra step to be helpful and decided not to prolong this
If the public can comment, why close the Public Meeting?
and why did staff say at the last mtg that the PMtg shd not be closed if Ccl wanted a staff report.
What difference wd it make since the public can speak whether closed or not?
So, Folks, just keep in mind that no one can talk to a council member if a PH is closed.}

Michael Evison:  I may have the shortest question of the evening.
when is this third hearing on the pesticides? and will the public be allowed to speak?
Mayor: third hearing?
G-J: third reading
ME: reading
Mayor: there has been no date established for that
MMgr: normally it wd be the next mtg of ccl
Mayor: Feb 7th
ME: and are the public be permitted to speak?
Mayor: absolutely.

 +++++  QUOTATIONS  +++++

I never saw a discontented tree. They grip the ground as though they liked it, and though fast rooted they travel about as far as we do.
                                -- John Muir, naturalist, explorer, and writer (1838-1914)

Rain! whose soft architectural hands have power to cut stones, and chisel to shapes of grandeur the very mountains.
                                -- Henry Ward Beecher, preacher and writer (1813-1887)

All art is autobiographical; the pearl is the oyster's autobiography.
                                -- Federico Fellini, film director, and writer (1920-1993)

+++++++++++++++  HAIKU  +++++  2005 January 27 ++++++++++++++
Multiple choice:

but the year's barely begun --
                month's nearly over --
                        Time's taking steroids!

        the year's just started --
                and the month's nearly over!
                                why they say time flies --

                just celebrated new year
                               already month's end --
                                        life's, time's, blinding blur

           just greeted new year --
                   now first month's over --
                           Life's in a race with time.......
                                                Enjoy the rest of 2005!