Apr 18th Ccl NOTES Calendar to May 6th

by Carolanne Reynolds, Editor

..............................  celebrating ten years of West Van on the Web   ......................................:
INFObits (Theatre and Nature); 7:30pm Youth Ccl Main Items May 2nd (Eagleridge Bluffs; Awards); Reports from cmte mtgs including Finance, Rec Fac (Cmty Ctr) plus Lib and Police Bd, and Calendar to May 6th; Apr 18th Ccl Mtg Notes (Single Transferable Vote! with a bit of Evelyn Dr and C3 in PQP; May 2 Abbreviated Agenda; Year of the Veteran (90 yrs ago Ypres, 60 Holland); Quotation

+++  INFObits   +++

Theatre:  Nicola Cavendish, our local star with incredible talent, stars in "Unless" until April 30th

Nature:  Incredibly the blue herons have many nests in the trees by the tennis courts in Stanley Park near the Fish House Restaurant.  What a sight.  One tree had at least 15 nests and the herons were gliding in carrying nest-building material.  Some of us cd only stand and stare transfixed.  Amazing they carry on undisturbed.

===  MAIN ITEMS at YOUTH CCL MTG May 2nd at 7:30pm  ===
After adjournment there'll be a reception.

===  REPORTS on Cmte Mtgs and CALENDAR to May 6th ===

= WEDNESDAY, 20th =

~ 8:30am ~ Sports/Rec Fac Planning Cmte: promised the figures re sports/space in gyms; C3 *** WAS CANCELLED ***

~ 4 - 8pm ~ AMBLESIDE TOWN CTR CMNTY FORUM at Seniors' Ctr
Well attended, good presentation, great to have such public information open houses as part of the process -- and they even say more to come!  Still time for you to provide input and PAC discusses it again May 4th.

~ 5:30 - 7pm ~ FAC at Hall, Reports/Updates EAC; Sports/Rec Fac Planning; Cmnty Benefit Review Grp; Water Conservation Grp; Work Plan Cmtes
What happened?  FAC Liaison again not allowed to participate in EAC mtg; Sports/Rec Fac Planning somewhat contentious and in limbo as reported in last WVM and at Ccl Apr 18th's mtg, we were told Council would make an announcement (more public input is guaranteed if Mayor Wood and Cclr Day's comments are to be believed, and I think they are); incredibly the Cmnty Benefit Review report from Planning still not available; Work Plan sounds much more constructive; also surprised to learn the Quarterly Investment Report gets posted on the website and is not included in the staff report to FAC.

~ 7 - 9pm ~ Library Bd (Peters Room)
Considerable discussion about whether it is appropriate for the Library Board to hold ACMs for the Provincial Election. General agreement that holding STV educational events were a good idea but a close vote in favour of holding two ACMs, one for each WV riding. Rumours Liberal candidates have been told to avoid all but a handful of ACMs and so after confirming, indications are that Joan McIntyre will not participate and Ralph Sultan may also be a no-show.  First one 7pm Apr 29th at Library.  Dennis Perry says he'll be there.

~ 7 - 9pm ~ BOARD OF VARIANCE      
Application (995 - 15th St) re a proposed addition with variance 7.67ft. to Front Yard Setback.
Application (2530 Mathers Ave) re a proposed new single family dwelling with 22ft. and 5 inches to Front Yard Setback.
Application (5963 Marine Dr) re a proposed addition with 3.25ft. to Front Yard Setback.
Application (1154 Inglewood Ave) re a proposed addition with 10.58ft. to Front Yard Setback.
Application (1365 - 28th St) re a proposed new single family dwelling with the following variances:  a) 11ft. and 8 inches to Front Yard Setback;  b) 9ft. to Rear Yard Setback.

= THURSDAY, 21st =  ~ 6 - 8pm ~ NS Family Court & Youth Justice Cmte at CNV

= SATURDAY, 23rd =

~ 9am - 2pm ~ Seniors' Centre 2005 Flea Market at the Ice Arena, 786 - 22nd St.

~ 10:30 - 2pm ~ ADOPT-A-FISH DAY at McDonald Creek in Memorial Park at the corner of Marine Drive and 19th Ave.  This is a joint event of the The Coho Society of the North Shore and The WV Streamkeeper Society with the assistance of The Dept of Fisheries and Oceans for elementary school children.  Register at the Coho Festival tent at the Library. Fish will then be supplied at Memorial Park across the street, for release in McDonald Creek. 

~ 11am - 1pm ~  Official Opening of Dennis Perry's Campaign Office, 1573 Bellevue (bottom of 15th at Bellevue).  Refreshments will be served.  Any questions please call the office 925-8141.

~ 2pm ~ Capilano College Textile Arts Grad Show at Ferry Bldg Gallery, Artists' Talk

~ 7:30pm ~ The Sinfonia Orchestra at the Centennial Theatre says:
"What more monumental Finale could Sinfonia compose? Music of Beethoven is always a show-stopper, and with three of his greatest standards, audiences will stand and cheer Sinfonia on to our Sixth Season! Jennifer Lim, a native of Korea who was raised in Vancouver, is one of the finest pianists our country has produced. Her stunning musicality will uplift us in her interpretation of Beethoven's mighty Emperor Concerto, the fifth and finest of his great Piano Concertos. Sinfonia will end the season on a triumphant note with Beethoven's dramatic Fifth Symphony."

= SUNDAY, 24th =

~ 1 - 4pm? ~ Open House at Lawn Bowling Club

~ 2pm ~ The Bon Voyage Concert of the Pacific Spirit Choir at West Van United: the Beethoven Mass in C and Selected Songs of Peace and Reconciliation before leaving on their trip to Holland. Tea and goodies afterwards. Tickets are $18/$15 at the door.

***  No Ccl Mtg MONDAY 25th  ***

= WEDNESDAY, 27th =

~ 8:30am ~ Sports/Rec Fac Planning Cmte: Last week promised the figures re sports/space in gyms but mtg cancelled; C3 only item on agenda!  More info and choices to be provided at next week's mtg so info and recommendation can be made to Ccl for May 9th mtg.

= THURSDAY, 28th =

~ 8:30am ~ Arts/Culture Strategy Select Cmte at Hall

~ 4pm ~ Police Bd at Chamber of Commerce Boardroom:
Question: how shd the $400K+ money given to DWV be spent?  See Press Release from Province in WVM Issue No 14.  NV put it aside for public debate.  Strange that Police Dept decided to do so in camera but not clear that was justified or in accordance with the Police Act.  Stay tuned.
Board decides to spend $6,000 travelling to Police conferences this year. Russ Fraser to attend one in Ottawa and one in Calgary intended for Police and Police Executives (not board members). Careful Police work has significantly reduced car thefts over last year's stats. Rumours that after the Provincial election the Min. of PS&SG will force West Van and others to join E-Comm as full members, taking on their "share" of the $100m+ E-Comm debt. Truck inspections showing that of 60 vehicles targeted, 6 passed. Discussion on building a temporary road across the 300m level from BPP's developments to Cypress Bowl Road to keep truck traffic away from residential areas and traffic.

~ 4:30 ~ DAC in Ccl Chamber --  CANCELLED

~ 5pm ~ NSACDI at CNV M Hall

ALL CANDIDATES' MEETING, Ch of Commerce at Mulgrave School (2330 Cypress Lane)
confirmed to date:
~ 7 - 8pm ~ WV - Capilano: Ralph Sultan (Lib) and Terry Platt (NDP)
~ 8 - 9pm ~ WV - Garibaldi: Joan McIntyre (Lib), Lyle Fenton (NDP), Dennis Perry (Green)

= FRIDAY, 29th =
~ 5 - 9pm ~ WV Home & Garden Show at WV Arena (Sat 11-6pm; Sun noon 11 - 5pm)
~ 7pm ~ Another All-Candidate Mtg -- this time at the Library but maybe only Green and NDP candidates.

= SATURDAY, 30th =
~ 11 - 4pm ~  "Beat the Heat" (3on3 Basketball Tournament), celebrating Youth Week, Gleneagles Cmnty Ctr

= SUNDAY, MAY 1st =  ~ 10am - noon ~ BC Special Olympics Walkathon (Seawalk- Ambleside-Dundarave)


Youth Week continues:
All at Hall:
Tues: 3:30 YAC; 4pm EAC; 7pm CSAC
Wed: 8:30am Sports/Rec with options re C3 to be presented to Ccl on Monday -- shd be interesting!; 6pm PEAC
Then Thurs: Ambleside Youth Ctr Open House
Fri:  8pm Battle of the Bands Music Contest (Arena)
Sat:  9am Seniors' Pancake Breakfast at Srs' Ctr; 1pm Passion for Fashion - fashion Show and Art Festival (location TBA); 1pm Fear Factor at Aquatic Ctr
PAC will be holding a Special Meeting at 5pm on Wednesday May 4 in the Council Chambers to continue discussion of the AMBLESIDE TOWN CTR STRATEGY

===  CCL MTG NOTES from APR 18th ============= 
JF (on holiday) and VD (unfortunately had to return to England where his mother was critically ill) absent

The Mayor also announced at beginning of the mtg that:

in view of the recent truck accident, DWV is responding to last week's in a number of ways.  Police and municipal staff are investigating institution of an approved hauling registry based on condition of vehicles and abilities of drivers;  intended to ensure only safety-approved trucking companies and vehicles will be able to operate on WV roads.  The Police Dept are stepping up speed enforcement on Folkestone, Westhill, and Chartwell Drive.  As well, the Police have initiated meetings with the Ministry of Public Safety, the Solicitor General, and ICBC to look at ways of further targeting problem vehicles through inspection.  These agencies already work together carrying out vehicle inspections on a regular basis and will explore all ways of improving truck safety.  In addition, municipal staff are undertaking reviewing bylaws re trucking policies and routes to make sure regulations effective and enforceable.

{Very much impressed and grateful Ccl has moved immediately and comprehensively on this dangerous situation.}

Secondly, May 1 - 7 is National Emergency-Preparedness Week.
No meeting next Monday [Apr 25]; Council will have a planning session.  [Later he read out some of the events and activities.]  The North Shore Emergency Office has full information.
The following week [May 2] not having a mtg as well; it's the Youth Ccl mtg instead.
[In answer to Sop's question about creating a registry (wd we have trucking/contractors' names, demand sign up), the Mayor said that apparently the City of Vancouver has an approved trucking list.   How determined, don't know but staff is checking into it and will bring forward as a suggestion.  Sop said companies are getting a slap on the wrist and coming back.  If mandatory, contractor wd have to deal with registry and pay those prices, not what he cd find in the 'black market'.  Until a policy, still going to have a problem.]
Mayor: that's one approach, don't know how practical--
Dir/Engg: starting to look into the program and when more information will bring it forward.

Additions to Agenda: much correspondence and a couple of petitions re C3.
3.1.      ADOPTION OF MINUTES, April 04, 2005

4.1  DELEGATION -- G. Quan, Citizens' Assembly on Electoral Reform

Mr Eugene (Gene) Quan on Mackenzie in Caulfeild area, Julie Bxxx (didn't quite hear name) in Ambleside
Asked to come b/c not much information so formed alumni to explain and not partisan in any way
{sorry, that's not the way it came across; they sounded like advocates and that's understandable given how much time, effort, and consideration given to this process.  Read on.........}
[slide presentation]
Ours FPTP (first past the post) or plurality
France has run-off for someone to get over 50%
Others proportional
Single Transferable Vote (STV) depends on more than one mbr per riding
zoned in on Mixed Mbr Plurality, used in Germany, used now in NZ
mixed system is a party-based system  and STV more of a candidate-based system
No countries using STV have them exactly the same
We asked what kind of system in BC
heard parties have too much power and MLAs powerless once elected
Fort Nelson said want our mbr to do what we want rather than send them to Victoria and then they tell us what Victoria will do
adversarial vs consensual
health/Medicare etc was passed during minority govts
accountability clear, system simple
big weakness now is lack of proportionality
1996 NDP got fewer votes but Liberals formed govt; last election Liberals got 57% but got all the seats but two so 43% of population was represented by two.
dictatorial govts b/c MLAs vote with party or else
50 public hearings since spring to get feedback
Asked to think about values over the summer
Most important was effective local representation -- and what does that mean? -- also wanted some semblance of proportionality
Also ppl want some voter choice; now one vote -- what if you like one party but a candidate from another party can do a better
don't want large false majority

{This can be/has been addressed in a variety of ways: recall and referendum, as well as proportional and preferential.}

got rid of systems that didn't have those values
BC STV is fair, local representation will be enhanced, voter choice (preferential)
MLAs all from constituencies; boundaries wd hv to be redrawn, no change in number of MLAs
STV will mirror voter support
voters will have more choice, ranking candidates by preference
[showed sample ballot, names in random not alphabetical order]
[Pamphlet held up with the report mailed out]
Please vote
The Citizens' Assembly Alumni has offered to speak, provide more information
On May 17 you will have two ballots, the first FPTP and the second on how you select votes in future and we suggest you think of your grandchildren when you pass that ballot.

{that's a non-partisan statement?}

Mayor: for referendum to pass?
Eugene: To pass, 60% of prov-wide vote and 50% of all 79 ridings, ie 40 must have a majority; very tough test
Ans: No allowance for education, just hired two well-meaning ladies, clerks; website no longer being updated, handing out dwindling supply of this report
Our role was over when recommendation
Sop: how many, 160 from throughout the prov on the cmte?
not ability to inform the public
a month for education?
not a skeptic but have some questions
Some vote for two in a constituency and others for seven
Julie: you don't vote, you show preferences
can be distributed proportionally
If North Shore has five mbrs, can easily figure out how many votes, quota, to get a seat
if say Mrs Jones needed 500 votes for a seat but got 1000 so the other 500 get 50% votes
Second preferences transferred to others, votes can be divided at value of 50%, then 25%, 15%,10%, as ppl reach the quota that they need
Sop: so 50%
Julie: it's not, 50% + is majority system; it's FPTP
Sop: a two-mbr riding will need a third of the vote
by the time seven, 12.5%
Eugene: yes, plus one
ridings are 50,000 so seven wd be 700,000; two wd be 100K
numbers don't change
the larger the riding, the more competitive it is
the system is one vote and you have to rank preference
Sop: if north and four mbrs from Alberta to coast, how effective is that mbr going to be?
Julie: boundary commission will decide
you have to remember 160 sat down and said we'll take our chances, high majority only a couple didn't agree; thought it was better than we have now
Sop: in effect a party system, forget the individual?
Eugene: no, not the system; that's a list as in other countries
the STV is candidate-based, can vote for a candidate whether in A, B, or C party
parties will field as many candidates as they think they'll be successful
NShore will probably be a five-mbr constituency, my guess, and maybe a party thinks not all wd get elected, doubt field all five and to take risk of those surplus votes getting transferred -- isn't going to happen
Those on bottom dropped, their votes get transferred first so their second choice get first rank, so those will be the independents, those will be the obscure parties, they'll have a hell of a lot more say.

{Oh, great.  Give the wingnuts on the fringe more say.  I'm all for minority views being represented but, sorry Dear Reader, that statement is a bit worrisome.......}

So the big parties are going to think very hard how they field their candidates.
Secondly, the candidates they field won't all be, sorry gentlemen, all white professional men that's the average, that's what we get, or white professional women
G-J (sounded like): not that there's anything wrong with that--
Eugene: Sorry, we heard throughout the province like to see some diversity.

{Although it's facetious and misleading to say 100% of the present NDP caucus is female and half Chinese; there are other Asians and women.  As a matter of fact, I'd guess fewer women than men are even interested in getting involved in the maelstrom of politics.}

Will have to field candidates that will be attractive to the public, not the one they're going to stuff down your throat
Julie: evolution to system, not necessarily a change
to wrap head around difficult
this system if implemented wd have to stay in place, recommended it stay in place for at least three elections; what we understand and what we've heard wd take at least two elections that long for ppl and candidates to understand how to, basically, work with voters and with each other and represent the people

{three elections to have it work? or work as intended?
oooooo.  and what problems as a result of not working as intended?
maybe the Citizens' Assembly (a noble idea) was too ambitious, to impatient, wanting to do too much too soon.........
if it takes three elections why not phase in the changes?  That way it's easy for public to be informed of the change and what the improvement or advantage is (if clear so they can understand  agree).  Then it may work each year and people see it's getting better.
For example, for this election allow people to vote 'none of the above' and have a write in (those who don't vote are in effect saying 'any of the above'.  That gets around not agreeing with a candidate chosen by friends and bussing in.
Then the next election maybe move to some larger ridings or some multi-mbr ridings with a preferential vote.....
Maybe ridings cd have a variety of methods and then after the election the results can be compared to see which people felt worked better for them.
IOW, experiment.
Not go holus bolus for something else in the whole province.
just one of many ideas.........
In any case, people shy away from something perceived as complicated with benefits not obvious.
Optimistically let's view this recommendation as a chance to think about change, consider what we think cd be done differently and better.  At the very least this exercise will open minds and increase education and awareness so that more will view electoral options and the pressure for choice will come from an informed and willing public.}

Women on cmte were accused of letting women of BC down, that we didn't propose a system that forced women, with a list (mixed-mbr-based plurality system).  I'm a woman,  I've worked for years in non-traditional work.  I wd never have gone after anything that I was selected b/c I was a woman, but I recently attended a function where Mary Robinson,  the former Prime Minister of Ireland, was.

{Sorry, Julie, Mary Robinson was a former president of Ireland, never prime minster}

Mary Robinson was asked, what about this STV?  In Ireland they've had it since 1922, the politicians tried twice to throw it out.
She said, no way.  If it hadn't been for STV she wd never have been elected as a woman.
Sop: 79 constituencies
Eugene: boundaries up to commission, something like that 18 electoral constituencies wd be multi-mbr.
Sop: if three candidates be put up by party wd all? voted as candidate of choice?
Eugene: you mean the nomination process?
Sop: yes
Eugene: we didn't get into process of political parties, up to them
they do so at there peril
we kept hearing about busing ppl in, buying $5 mbrships sending in their buddies, and some not even mbrs or citizens or live in riding
Julie: our mandate was very clear
Eugene: system very competitive, if party does that, that riding wdn't appreciate, wdn't get support
this is strictly provincial but in NZ they have switched to STV for municipal and county
G-J: trying to think about this from point of view of voter who's thinking to vote strategically
Wd there be an advantage voting for someone you think will win so your vote wd be transferred?
wd there be an advantage of voting for who you think will win so your votes will count?
Gene Quan: this system takes away what I grew up with in late 50s, sgl mbr plurality, FPTP, we've all learned to vote, b/c no choice,  strategically
everything we learned, ppl voted to 'get the bums out', rarely for the one we wanted to
the single transferable vote system doesn't do that; it enables you to vote for your choice, to vote positively that's why we think it will take at least two elections for the voters to understand that
b/c you're reflecting, how do you get around it, how do you beat it?
simple fact you don't, this gets around that; you vote for preferences
one system we heard, your good buddy, Jane, represents, let's say, the "I don't want it party"
will never, probably won't get in, won't get enough support, but you want to show you're loyal so you put her as number one
she doesn't make it, gets only maybe 500 votes out of 50,000
She'll be the first to drop out; your second preference will then be transferred
Julie: at full value b/c it's not been used, so it will be transferred as a whole vote, not as a portion of a vote
G-J: I understand that, I'm trying to go through the process of unlearning and learning
take NSh as an example choosing five MLAs from a field of eighteen?
Gene: cd be 25
G-J: having been a student of local politics for a long time, that's tough
that's when name recognition counts
bigger area than you're used to
hard and expensive to make yourself known
Julie: candidates do tend to get more votes in their area
idea of looking outside nbrhd will take some learning
get to know candidates outside their area
voter sees gets more of a choice, has more of a say
some parties might have enough money, only big parties enough to vote ppl in
don't think ppl of BC that stupid; came out in our discussion ppl don't follow necessarily parties
maybe some people won't know what to do
perhaps by second election, their vote can make a difference
seeing their vote can count more than once
last Friday someone said I don't want to vote more than once
ask but then what happens to my vote?
if you don't vote for somebody that gets picked in the first round, the rest of your possible preferences are lost
if you don't vote more than once, the rest of your votes don't count
Mayor, referring to Speaker List: someone has name to speak
Ccl doesn't allow questions during delegation period, if you have a question for them, suggest speak to them privately afterward
will have to wait until PQP at end
Voice: it's not a question, it's a statement, historical point
Mayor: well, ccl policy is to wait until end
[She does; see PQP for some historical context]
RD: interesting what you're doing; system wd be more democratic, parliamentary
govts that result probably weaker, more likely coalition govts, better reflection, more the way ppl think
problem as I see it in govts like Italy and Israel, and problem in Third Republic before DeGaulle set up a presidential system
opposite problem to that in present systems govts, party, majority of seats, too powerful, four- or five-year dictatorships
power to legislate, not much except only public opinion can restrain them
problem with coalition, representing ev point of view
coalition based on two or three parties, sometimes more
sometimes that party totally dependent for majority on a small party, five or six
sometimes small party has undue power
in the present system, the majority party has undue power
difficult problem to get around
can be unstable, relies for majority on weakest party in coalition
more parties, better representation more democratic
almost invariably coalition govts, they can cause problems of instability
nevertheless favour this, is more democratic and more fair
more representation in parliament worth the risk
sorry the prov govt is not giving more support
wish you the success and do hope this system passes
Julie: public education; think mbr of audience was going to refer to system of voting in early 50s
this system has never been used before
Gene: in 1952/53 prov system was changed from FPTP to the alternative vote
Conservatives hoped they cd end their coalition with the voters having a second choice to elect either the Liberals or the Conservatives
Guess what, it didn't do that.  Produced Social Credit Party
all of this is available on the website (elections.bc)
when he got back in second time in 1953, he realized he'd get more seats with FPTP
he changed system; if you were voting then he didn't ask if you wanted to change the voting system
changed by Legislative Assembly and guess who controlled it
this is a rare opp for all citizens to have a say on electoral change

{but surely not change for change's sake?}

Julie: important as well, there were multi-mbr ridings
but there was an individual ballot for each seat available
so ended up not a sgl transferable
ppl got to put down preferences, somewhat only similarity
ppl who were least disliked got elected
wasn't just one ballot with multiple preferences, there were as many ballots as seats

{ah. not transferable.  One seat, rank them 1 - 2 - 3.  Sounds good to me!  the least disliked isn't a bad choice!}  I guess you cd read it as those listed most liked overall gets elected.}

Gordon Wilson on radio recently saying we had it before but we haven't
Gene: newspapers sell papers
not all very accurate
JC: once transferring completed, how govt formed?
Gene: only a couple of cases in BC's history, 50 to 60 years, only two instances govt won by over 50%, true majority
if that trend continues, won't see more than two majority govts in the next 50 years
STV, so majority will be minority govts, Assembly prefers to call it coalition
we want more consensual politics not adversarial
look at voting patterns all these years in the prov, ppl voted moderately
ppl in this province, consistently voted whether NDP or Lib, in a moderate way

{How on earth can you vote NDP or Liberal extremely or moderately?  this needs more clarification.....}

think time politicians realize voters want them to grow up a bit
want them to work consensually
only four democracies use FPTP, Gt Brit for fed system, US, Canada, and India

{Another oopsie.  GB had a unitary system, not a federal, but somewhat modified with a bit of devolution.}

France uses the majority system; every other democracy uses a proportional system
in Britain, for our NSh ppl, you shd know they imposed on Wales and in Scotland a mixed, a proportional system
and how do the British elect their mbrs for the Common Market, wch is a big fire engine of the economy, a single transferable vote
but media doesn't tell you this
how mindful Assembly was in coming to this recommendation
Sop: one party for a number of years
Gene: Alberta, one; powerful
Sop: what's wrong with that
Quan: it works great for Albertans but they're also talking about electoral reform
bit of trivia; we used data from AB, their election results during 50s
used sgl transferable vote in their prov system
the ridings around Calgary and Edmonton use the STV; the ridings outside of those cities, the rural ridings, use sgl-mbr plurality
the results of those STV ridings, gave us a perfect correlation
gave us confidence wd work in Canada
Julie: question whether how a coalition wd work, we did consider ev for hours and hours
of course there's no perfect system, no perfect answer
one of the points that came out over and over was there were no checks and balances in these false majority systems
take a chance on a coalition
how does premier in front of a coalition, a premier represent us federally, can he represent him better, more honestly?
the answer, we, 160 ppl with no political experience, perhaps foolishly said, we feel that a premier cd represent us far better at a federal level b/c he has something honest behind him.

{Whoa.   Honest?  That's not a 'definition/exclusive quality' of the STV!  There are many systems and many 'honest' systems, just different.  The Citizens' Assembly did take some political science courses so they are more informed than most of the public on the various systems and possibilities, but it's a bit of a stretch to call the particular system they chose as 'honest'.  Remember, regardless of the system it is the people who choose the person/politician to represent them.  Theirs is the responsibility.  That's if they can convince reputable, dependable, capable, responsive fellow citizens to offer their time, effort, and expertise for little money/recompense and a lot of public scrutiny and criticism with little privacy.  The pool shrinks every year exposing more flipflopping for oxygen.....}

RD: existing system, a false majority, the only check is really the press, public opinion manipulated by the press essentially, and neither is democratic
nor is a media manipulated by a small number of ppl
advantage is more democratic and more parliamentary in nature
coalition may be weaker but more parliamentary
govt has to pay attention to its coalition to its majority in parliament, therefore listens to parliament more; that's the beauty of the system
I think you're right BCians more moderate and tend to vote moderate, favour a moderate approach  or coalitions but confronted with a party system more radical than they wd like
BCians more moderate than parties, or a coalition
speak to them, wd like to see more middle of the road but they get right or left, left or right, mostly right and feel uncomfortable
wd like something more moderate and think your system wd provide that
BCians don't vote for extreme parties
problems earlier, particularly in Europe, had communist, far right, Fascist, in the past, had a number of small parties anti-democratic in nature, and they weaken the system
not likely to happen in BC, the smaller parties wd be democratic for the most part b/c BCians are moderate in the way they vote
don't think there'd be any dangers, I think the system wd work, a little complicated but wd be a big improvement
Gene: sounds like you were at our debates!
[Motion of Receipt re BC STV delegation]

5.         REPORTS

5.1       Development Permit No. 04-018 (4674 Clovelly Walk) - Request for Building Envelope Reduction
RECOMMENDED: THAT the plan as provided in Appendix B be authorized
Geri Boyle, Planning Staff: difficult terrain
on one lot wd like to have a smaller bldg envelope
Sop: putting in pool on sloping site
GB: lot hasn't been subdivided
living on westerly lot and want to sell the easterly
Sop: greenbelt on both; is there a covenant?
GB: is a covenant setting out a specific bldg envelope
Sop: at our request
GB: b/c of difficult terrain

5.2       Controlled Substance Nuisance Bylaw No. 4417, 2005
Designated Presenter:  Director of Administrative Services
            The Bylaw received three readings on April 04, 2005.  Statutory public notice was published on April 10 and 17, 2005.  An opportunity will be provided this evening for persons who consider they are affected by the bylaw to make representations to Council.
RECOMMENDED: THAT "Controlled Substance Nuisance Bylaw No. 4417, 2005" be adopted.
RD: a couple of letters expressing concerns such as I expressed
owners who've rented; know some who've had that unhappy experience
renters limits inspection, have to knock on door
often grow op owners respectable, those were
in a way, blaming the owner, a victim
blamed for renting to ppl who do this
want to be assured my fears are exaggerated
Mayor: Ms Scholes, do you wish to comment on that?
SSch [MClk]: wish to defer to MMgr
RD: he can't defer!
MMgr: intent is to defer costs
opportunities to dissuade this type of activity difficult
visitations to encourage more due diligence
is it the best answer, no but have to take to encourage owners to take some responsibility as to what's happening in their communities
there's a danger to rest of cmnty by having this activity occur
one step we and many other Ms are taking in BC to reduce the number of grow-ops
sorry, can't assure you there won't be hardship; hardship exists now
owners who haven't been diligent having to undertake these repairs
one of the tools we have, Cmnty Charter now allows us and that's why we place it before Ccl for consideration.
[RD moved receipt of correspondence on this]
Sop: in duty of owner, part 6, p 73, it says, ev owner of a building or structure subject to a tenancy agreement
must inspect once ev three consecutive calendar months
ev three months owners have to go
Mayor: or their agent
Sop: look through them, how is that enforced?
MMgr :like many of our bylaws, wd not have a registry and poll ev landlord and ask have you dropped by
we've established a standard and up to owners if they wish to abide
encourage more responsibility wrt visitation
we know from talking to Police Depts, these setups done quickly and damage occur
taking into consideration the value of your property in WV
visiting three or four times a year to make sure your investment is secure seems a reasonable precaution
Sop: within 24 hours of a contravention there's a contact
 what if year goes by and suddenly grow op, and haven't been paying attention to quarterly visits?
MMgr: that's the risk they've taken
under the bylaw, those that incur some of these costs if they can demonstrate diligence can be exempt from costs
can't demonstrate, if you haven't visited can't apply
Sop: going to be v costly for the owners
construction costs, spore, mould, and mildew removal......etc.... all new carpets, inspectors' attention -- fire, police, and all those with fees
all has to be paid prior to getting occupancy back in the place
ppl have to realize costly
queried 6.3 have all walls cleaned and disinfected, or replaced if necessary
we know moisture, if to interior of walls, mildew, professional cleaner can make outside look very nice; how can inspector tell about inner wall
MMgr: whether we have a bylaw in place or not, those are some of the concerns the owner is going to face
we know it's v v costly
as a M, we have costs
we also have issues with owners doing superficial jobs and then asking us to certify occupancy safe
this ensures the kind of work to be done, a list, right kinds of work to be done
providing additional safeguards for those who move in after the fact
Sop: Sched B, before occupancy required to inform prospective occupants have complied
how is that enforced?
MMgr: wd not allow certificate of occupancy unless letter
Sop: so some notification back to District?
MMgr: yes
G-J: Look, marijuana and methamphetamine labs serious
we can turn a blind eye or say this is going on
allow ppl to learn about it, hope they'll be proactive, protect
no question I'll support it

5.3       Development Variance Permit No. 04-026 (2925 & 2935 Marine Drive)
Designated Presenter:  Director of Planning, Lands & Permits
RECOMMENDED: THAT the Municipal Clerk give notice that DVP Application (2925 & 2935 Marine Drive), which would provide for a future subdivision of two lots into three lots with variances to site width and lot depth for proposed Lot B, will be considered at the meeting of Council on Monday, May 09, 2005.
G-J: this is an unusual proposal
in anticipation -- will nbrs be notified?
GB: yes
Sop: looked unusual to me until I looked back and three lots backing on to it
Mayor: huge lots
Sop: yes, they are

5.4       Rock Breaking by Blasting - 6063 Blink Bonnie Road
Designated Presenter:  Director of Planning, Lands & Permits
RECOMMENDED: THAT the application for the Rock Breaking Permit to remove 215 cubic metres of rock for a pool construction at 6063 Blink Bonnie Road be approved.
GB: under bylaws, allowed to break rock to build a pool
deep about 9 and a half ft, other end 4ft, it's a lap pool
G-J: we received a letter and I don't have it
re drainage and wd like a staff report on that
MMgr: no connection; will follow up though
another question as to whether it exceeds limit
original home was constructed in 1995; blasting permit issued at that time; a total of 509 was the max limit allowed, 286cu m were blasted, and that left 223 cu m available so amt left, albeit for pool, is still less

5.5       Request from Antonio Bay Productions for Noise Bylaw Exemption During Proposed Filming in West Vancouver (Whytecliff Park)
Designated Presenter:  Director of Administrative Services
RECOMMENDED: THAT an exemption from sections 4(e) (i) and 6(n) of the District's Noise Control Bylaw No. 3908, 1994 be approved for Antonio Bay Productions for filming in Whytecliff Park after 11:00 p.m. Friday April 22, 2005 until 2:00 a.m. on Saturday April 23, 2005.
MClk: not able to meet original dates so back for alternate dates
Sop: same requirements as to original?  times, stated last time?
MClk: yes, and residents have been notified


* Mayor: took opp to attend official opening of homeless shelter in NV; don't want to ackn homeless on North Shore and was informed in fact full, 75 ppl, so v nec facility
prov and fed govt assistance as well as M
need add'l $750K
it is open and it is functioning
providing nec social function in our society

* G-J: want to congratulate organizers of MS Walk; last year raised  $77,000 , this year raised $120,000 at Ambleside, so they were thrilled; not a nice day
wrt Sun Run, important to note
[re WV residents]
in the male category 75 to 79, Frank Kurucz came first
{Hey there, Frank! way to go -- he's former head of WV Parks Dept so he's keeping in shape!}
in 80 to 84, Cliff Hill came sixth; over 85 Neil Grey came first -- talk about fit fellows!  well done
in female 75 to 79, two: Mary Wright and Mary Grant came sixth and seventh; 80 to 84,  Eleanor Cross Sprye came eighth
others too,, great testimony to WV lifestyle, fitness, health, and shd celebrate that
Mayor: shd mention re those who came in first, there was more than one runner
G-J: plenty
JC: ones that came in first and second
Mayor: first past the post; in any event some of those people, quite impressive
There's hope for us yet, Cclr Day
RD: not for me, I manage to swim a few laps.

JC: did have, my biz partner, Christine Barakas [sp?], age group doesn't matter, in race in a time of 6l [mumble] minutes
attended Ch of Comm Coho Society AGM Wed morning
v successful, Dr John Nightingale from Aquarium spoke
that evening I attended PAC mtg discussed Amb revitalization plan
as ccl liaison we're supposed to come back and describe the atmosphere and information of these cmte mtgs; quite honestly so much passion there I don't think that I cd quite adequately do it, don't know if Ms Boyle can do it but I rather doubt it.
they have actually called a second mtg for May 4
it wd be my recommendation any ccl member who wd like to attend here in Ccl Chambers at 5 o'clock, highly recommend it
ev had something to say
Mayor: passion was directed toward?
JC: Ambleside revitalization plan
Mayor: that's encouraging
JC: it was terrific
as co-chair of school traffic safety cmte
some folks may be aware curb work done in front of Sentinel on Chartwell over spring break
attended those schools two or three times last fall and traffic a nightmare
delighted to report work done by Engg Dept, traffic situation a nonevent now, so orderly; principal has written note; teachers on guard/crosswalk duty, everybody just thrilled, terrific job
Irwin Park was done last year; expect PJ next
little Tracey Hinder, Gr 8 from WV Secondary finished in final five in national Spelling Bee
off to Washington DC representing this end of the country

* RD: also attended Coho Society breakfast, and guess also Ch of Commerce
got up bright and early worth it, well attended
Dr Nightingale's talk about migration of salmon, and how measured; increasingly sophisticated means
after that Cclr G-J and I rushed down to Westcot School where they opened up a new playground wch parents, kids, and teachers had built; very interesting morning
Also, we've had young ppl assigned to us individually, as part of the youth mentor program
certainly turning out to be interesting, young woman who attended the HAC mtg with me, a 16-yr-old from WV Secondary
to my amazement took part fully in debate (in Heritage Cmte mtg); only 16 years old, as if lived here for 30 years
poise and ability to speak clearly and well, speaks for her and school system
she'll be attending the Amb Plan Open House with me in a few days.

7.         OTHER ITEMS
7.1       E-Comm Board of Directors Designate for the 2005/2006 Year
Designated Presenter:  Director of Administrative Services
RECOMMENDED: THAT the continuation of Mayor Ron Wood as the representative for the District of West Vancouver, City of North Vancouver and District of North Vancouver on the E-Comm Board of Directors for 2005/2006, be confirmed.

7.2       Correspondence [full list in previous issue]


Sop (referring to letters and petitions wrt new cmnty ctr and desire to have long-time activities to still be at the central site): l presume we'll have an answer in due time for all these letters. 232 signatures
MMgr: staff have been tabulating the public input received, looking at options, issues raised
hope to report on May 9th with a possible solution
G-J: on the public agenda?
MMgr: yes
RD: I'd just add, Ccl too has been active too and working on this, in midst so can't make a report
we're paying close attention what's being said by all the groups
trying to get the information and facts that we need
certainly our intent to accommodate, as much as we possibly can, all the groups who have genuine concerns
can assure public we're paying v close attention
will be able to give you a clearer picture in our next ccl mtg wch is May 9th

Sop: is this proper time to report GVTA's 50% increase to our citizens of WV
RD: 100%!
Sop:  $422 and some cents
Mayor: hold off on that; we are running a joint ad with other three Ms, will have a formal stmt, May 9th, well before tax season

8.         PUBLIC QUESTIONS AND COMMENTS: STV, Evelyn Drive, and C3

1 -- STV
Mayor: Ms Berg (sp?)
lady: compliment speakers on STV
felt for the audience I'd like to balance a little bit
In 1952,  and it wasn't based on reporters, it was based on an analysis thesis of that particular election
and we don't have a stupid electorate but we often have ppl who just don't understand
in 1952, the voters went to the ballot and voted for first and second choice
Conservatives voted first for Conservatives, refused to vote second choice Liberal b/c had been in coalition and were now v adversarial, so their second choice went to Social Credit b/c Mr Bennett had been a Conservative mbr -- and Alberta and funny money biz at that time; looked safe -- voted Social Credit
Liberals voted first Liberal and second choice CCF, b/c they felt comfortable with that
Social Credit voted Social Credit, second choice Conservative
CCF voted second choice Social Credit second b/c word social was there
a lot of confusion, have concerns of lack of education
feel it will be a very confusing issue to have have first and second
and historically proved to be the case

Keith Pople: director of PWV; last week Ccl rejected a motion to receive a staff report dated April 7
[conscientious G-J rushed out]
re proposed amending bylaws for OCP rezoning Ev Dr, report essentially accommodated Millennium Prop's proposals
has Millennium Properties been officially advised of Ccl's opposition to the devt proposal?
Mayor: the motion before us was consideration of Ev Dr per se and what bylaws might be considered in the context of what Millennium was proposing without considering Millennium itself
that was not seconded, it failed
so there's no suggestion we need to advise Milln of rejection b/c we were not in fact considering their proposal
KP: are we saying Ccl is objecting--
Mayor: opposed considering of those parameters
MMgr: Ccl has obligation to consider any application that comes before it
not so much a rejection, considered it and chose not to move it forward
for those in gallery not here last week, I indicated staff wd be bringing forth a report May 9th how we can commence a District-led review, as contemplated in the OCP
wd include consultation with the cmnty
KP: just thought, having not received the report that Milln wd be advised
MMgr: Millennium has certainly been advised of ccl's decision not to proceed
Sop: once staff has done its proposal
staff done work to study area and come up with some solutions
open to everybody and make consideration on it?
MMgr: correct; recommending terms of ref for study
and the hiring of an independent consultant to engage in that study
at public mtg, Ccl wd hav opp to comment as wd cmnty
through process cmnty wd have opp to provide input
then consultant's report wd be provided to Ccl, further opp for public input
staff's opinion if Ccl's going to consider any kind of redevt in this area shd provide more info as to what appropriate as contemplated in OCP, a study area

{Again, why put the residents both for and against, as well as the devpr through such a long, expensive, even traumatic, experience -- why wasn't the study done in the first place?
Just as why not public input from the beginning for C3 so not in redesign?
Waste of time and energy, even of good will.
When will Ccl start including public input and consultation early enough so we don't have to go back to the beginning and start again?
Let us hope with these two egregious examples, Ccl and staff will have learned.
But don't count on it.
OTOH, it is election year so more likely listened to.}

3 -- C3
Joyce Hibberd: Keith Rd, want to take this opp to thank cclrs, and esp Kevin Pike who listened so carefully to my concerns about the proposed cmnty ctr
plsd to hear you're going to look at the options
I urge you v v strongly to remember you must make adequate space for all activities
if there isn't a good example for why you must continue to make large spaces av for fitness and exercise, then the report from the Sun Run best example I can think of
encourage all of you
pls come an watch us exercise Tu or Th mornings
the fit fellows fill gym 9 to 10
then Carol Peterson's class been going strong for 20 some years
providing fitness in a large space for a large number of ppl

RD: the present cmnty ctr has lasted about 50 years
next one will last longer; we want to be sure we get it right
assure you again on behalf of Ccl we are listening closely, we just have to weigh all the financial aspects before we come to final decisions
JH: I'm 71 now and wd like to think I'll be participating as long as I can in the fitness classes
RD: you may be winning some of these runs, following in the footsteps of Frank Kurucz.

Mayor: remind you no ccl mtg next week
come along to a v interesting mtg May 2nd youth ccl mtg
issue that evening will be Eagleridge Bluffs, road vs tunnel lively debate
may even have judge's decision by that point from federal court
RD: students being assigned to each of us on Ccl; youth mentorship prog
purpose is to get to know students involved
these will be participating in youth forum as a model Ccl
idea was to assign each to an indiv ccl mbr so they'd get to know how the system works from inside Before, they came but hadn't been exposed to sort of inner sanctum, ccl policy and life, cmtes, and so on
that's why established, when then come in May 2nd not coming in cold
know the kinds of things we do
Mayor: are they going to make us look bad
RD: cd well
my experience on Heritage cmte, she was the star of the show
8:42   --  9.    ADJOURNMENT

===  YOUTH CCL MTG AGENDA May 2nd at *7:30pm*  ===

1.                  CALL TO ORDER
2.                  APPROVAL OF AGENDA
The Youth Council will engage in debate regarding the Sea to Sky Highway Upgrade Project.
Youth Mayor and Councillors will report on activities, events and meetings.
RECOMMENDED: THAT the oral reports from the Youth Mayor and Youth Councillors be received.
Youth Mayor Nanji and Mayor Wood will present certificates for the fourth annual Youth Appreciation Awards.
6.         ADJOURNMENT

Mayor Wood and Youth Mayor Nanji extend an invitation to all to attend a reception in the main floor foyer, immediately following the adjournment of the Youth Council Meeting.

========  YEAR OF THE VETERAN  [fwded to me]  =============
90 years ago today....
Second Battle of Ypres  --  Date April 22 - May 25, 1915
The Second Battle of Ypres was the first time Germany used chemical weapons on a large scale on the Western Front in World War I.
The Second Battle of Ypres consisted of four separate battles:
        The Battle of Gravenstafel - 22nd to 23rd April 1915
        The Battle of St Julien* - 24th April to 4th May 1915
        The Battle of Frezenburg - 8th to 13th May 1915
        The Battle of Bellewaarde - 24th to 25th May 1915
       168 tons of chlorine gas were released on 22 April over a four-mile front.  Around 5,000 troops died within ten minutes by asphyxiation. The gas affected the lungs and the eyes causing respiration problems and blindness.  Being denser than air, it flowed downwards forcing the troops to climb out of trenches.
       Initially French Colonial and Algerian troops were attacked with gas. They died there or abandoned their positions, leaving a four-mile gap in the front line -- however, the German High Command had not foreseen the effectiveness of their new weapon, and so had not sent any reinforcements to the area. German forces were unable to take advantage of this gap, and the 1st Canadian Division reinforced the gap and held that part of the line against further gas attacks until 3rd May.
       The winds were blowing in favour of the Germans; this meant that anything short of a full retreat would leave Allied forces in contaminated areas. The Canadians, initially held in reserve, realized the only place with fresh air would be near the German lines, as the winds would blow the gas away from there (following the basic principles of gas warfare: infantry can only quickly occupy clean areas; therefore, the occupied areas would have to be uncontaminated). The Canadians fought through using urine-soaked handkerchiefs as primitive gas masks (for the ammonia in the urine would react with the chlorine, neutralizing it and allowing the soldiers to breathe). Although the battle was considered a stalemate, the act of reestablishing the front lines in such harsh conditions earned the respective Canadian regiments some of the highest battle honours ever awarded. In addition, this was the first time colonial forces (Canadian Expeditionary Forces, CEF) forced back a major European power (the Germans) on European soil. This occurred in the battle of St. Julian-Kitchener's Wood.
       The Canadian Scottish Regiment (Princess Mary's) (C Scot R) 16th Battalion CEF received a distinctive shoulder flash for their actions in St. Julian-Kitchener's Woods. The shoulder title consists of a brass acorn in an oak leaf over a red felt backing with the name Canadian Scottish (the typical shoulder flash is strictly limited to the unit's name in brass). The acorn and oak leaf are based off the heavy oak forests of Kitchener's Wood, a very difficult environment to fight through under ordinary conditions.
Canadian Battle Casualties at Ypres 1915:
                6035 Canadian casualties in 48 hours.  More than 2000 Canadians died.

[*  sometimes written Julian apparently]
It is said that Canada came of age at Ypres.  So sad it was done in war.  Times of crisis unite a country.   I don't wish for crises but it is important that we see ourselves as a community, a country of shared values with respect for free speech and liberty.

======  QUOTATION =====================

Too many parents make life hard for their children by trying, too zealously, to make it easy for them.
        -- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, poet, dramatist, novelist, and philosopher (1749-1832)