How well DWV staff are holding up with one emergency after another!  Our heartfelt thanks!

Congratulations to Stephane Dion, the new leader of the federal Liberal party.

Let the games begin!  Come to think of it, whether Liberals or Conservatives win, we'll have a Steve for PM!

=  PUBLIC HEARING DEC 4th at KAY MEEK CTR 7pm re EVELYN DRIVE REZONING (see end)

=  gRUMBLEs (Ev Dr; Email); UPDATES (Prov, WV websites, Opera, Theatre, Belly-Robbing, Trees); Calendar to Dec 15th; Nov 27th Ccl NOTES (Fiscal Task Force; Base Budget 2007; Eagle Lake Filtration $$$); Nov 6 and 14 Minutes (eg Ev Dr, minutes pretty well useless b/c says X commented on Y -- so no info, no idea if person supported or didn't or provided more to consider); Group Daycare Report; decision re resident letters on website deferred; Correspondence (no links; NOTE: Bd of Variance minutes in this section so also not accessible) mostly Clovelly-Caulfeild nbrhd but who knows what the residents thought/wrote b/c no link!; Public Hearing Agenda with INFObits (EV DR: Uplift and Cmnty Benefits -- your choices! -- speak at PH!); Haiku; Quotation

WRT last issue's gRUMBLE about the lot being sold to Millennium as part of the Ev Dr devt: yes, it was part of the previous bylaws too; with the rise in real estate prices Millennium is paying more.

=

COMPUTER PROBLEMS:  Well, hope you all have recovered from our windstorms and snowstorms, lack of power, etc.  Your Editor has many problems and challenges to deal with over the month or so, from G's car accident (car totalled), to moving offices before new office ready (we're still not entirely moved in, but it's one of our satellite offices so all our addresses of record remain) and losing power both at the office as well as at home (two days!).  This has resulted in not being able to access the Internet for a while, losing some email. and minor changes (see Updates re websites).

Then this past weekend a DOS attack resulted in no email for a while but it's been sorted out now.   If ever you get a bounce, try again; if any problems, pls do call 922 4400.

===  UPDATES  ====

=A7  PROVINCE/SULTANWATCH

Read MLA Ralph Sultan's newsletter -- www.ralphsultan.com -- find out about his fifth grandchild, first grandson, the eagles' nest outside his home, and other news about our prov govt and its plans.

To read past issues of West Van Matters, visit www.westvan.org

To write to the Editor of WVM, editorWVM@westvan.org

To learn about other groups, just go to www.westvan.org for:

       -> www.heritage.westvan.org (formerly www.northshore.heritagebc.org, write to heritage@westvan.org); 2007 Heritage Award Nomination forms now available.

       -> www.streamkeepers.westvan.org (write to streamkeepers@westvan.org)

       -> www.shoreline.westvan.org

       -> www.library.westvan.org

       -> www.chamber.westvan.org

       -> www.agenda.westvan.org (for the WV Ccl Mtg agenda)

=A7    OPERAWATCH

=  Verdi's Macbeth at the QE is three hours packed with the drama of Shakespeare, striking sets, the soaring voice of soprano Jane Eaglen as well as the stirring bass-baritone of Greer Grimsley, the bass Burak Bilgili, and the tenor John Bellemer.  Our own West Van Florist is sponsor for the Dec 2 performance.

=  Also, did you know?  We have an opera composer right in our very own midst!  Lloyd Burritt presented a peek at his work in progress, The Dream Healer, at a WV residence last weekend.  What a privilege and delight!  If interested (there will be a workshop at UBC in Oct 2007 and a performance at The Chan in March 2008), visit www.thedreamhealer.com to find out more.  On the website you can hear audio samples recorded at the KMC in June.  Take advantage of the opportunity to get involved and support this exciting artistic creation.  WV is so full of talent.

SO LUCKY TO LIVE HERE!

The little theatre that could.  The Jericho Arts Ctr has a wide range of plays from downright amateur to polished (as was Frayn's Democracy wch will be at the QE in February -- highly recommended).  Friel's Aristocrats is on until the 10th with overtones of Chekhov re families but the sociological study as a framework is reminiscent of Tolstoy's families (unhappy each in its own way) -- the acting the night we went was flawless and we sat in the front row.  It is rare, and I take notes naturally, that pronunciation is correct but glad leisure did rhyme with pleasure (one exception: Turgenev was said with a soft G when it shd be hard).  Later, reading Dec/Jan Playboard, saw that United Players is called "The Little Company That Could".

The Jericho Arts Ctr will have the Comedy Company's Christmas Nuts (The Sequel) from Wed Dec 13 to Saturday Dec 16th.

= To participate in spawner surveys, report return of fish, volunteer, or join,  write to streamkeepers@westvan.org or pls call WV Streamkeepers at 628 1123.

= It was reported that some fish had been found at the mouth of a creek with the belly slashed and eggs taken, not sure if by predator or illegally by someone using as bait to fish.  If you see any fishing or habitat violations, Rob Bell-Irving of DFO advises the public can call 1 877 952 7277, or the ORR (Observe, Record, Report) line at 1 800 465 4336.  Both numbers will contact the appropriate Staff, covering any given area. But again -- it would be wrong to report any belly-robbing, until it's actually proven and verified. Unless the belly cuts are "surgically" cut, and most of belly exposed; it still could be bears ripping post-spawn adults, or even, the odd ripe salmon being pulled out by bears -- and other animals, tearing at carcasses, trying to get at eggs, etc.  With small runs and considering all the work of WV Streamkeepers to restore runs, this is a serious violation with critically damaging results for us.

Reports are that we lost about 400 trees during the windstorm and as many during the snowstorm and we don't know how many yet in the parks!

***  Festival of Lights  ***  December 2 to January 2 in = ; Dundarave Park - Beach House Rest

~  Dec 3rd and 6th ~ 7 - 8:30pm ~ Carol Ships pass by Ambleside and Dundarave.  Bonfires too.

~ 3:45 - 5pm ~ Civic Youth Strategy Working Group, YAC at Srs' Activity Ctr

~ 4 - 6pm ~  Police Board mtg at Police Station's boardroom (postponed from Nov 23)

~ 4:30 - 7:30pm ~ DAC in Ccl Chambers

~ 6:30 - 7:30pm ~ "Honour a Life" - Srs' Ctr - Tree at foot of 19th St

~ 7:30pm ~ "Gifts From the Heart"  -  Join well-known gospel singers Marcus Mosely and Gail Suderman in a concert of gospel and traditional Christmas songs. From the first song to the last shout, these gifted performers reach the unreachable with a soul stirring and uplifting message. A concert that will touch the heart and raise the roof! Tickets: $10 at Silk Purse

===  Friday Dec 8th at 8pm at the Kay Meek Ctr

The Universal Gospel Choir is an eighty-member non-denominational community choir based in Vancouver . This exciting ensemble sings songs of healing, praise, prayer, and peace from a wide variety of cultures. The choir is known for its passion, versatility, exciting soloists, and love of singing and performing. Its diverse and eclectic repertoire reflects African-American, African, Middle Eastern, and Aboriginal influences.

The Universal Gospel Choir's current director, Brian Tate, has conducted community choirs for many years, and is acclaimed for both his sense of musicality and his rapport with audiences.  He is an award-winning composer and arranger, his works are published and performed worldwide.

The choir's resident band features three of Vancouver's finest musicians: Diane Lines on piano, Phil Belanger on drums, and Danny Parker on bass. Diane Lines is also the resident accompanist for the choir, and sings in the tenor section.

~ 7:30pm ~ WV Youth Band at Kay Meek Ctr

~ 7:30pm ~ The Jubilate! Chamber Choir conducted by Scott Goble and accompanied by Ya-Wen Wang will present "Joyeux Noel", a programme of French and French-Canadian Christmas Music at the WV Presbyterian Church.  Tix available at the door: $15; Srs/students $10.

~ 4pm ~ Cmnty Engagement Cmte at M Hall

~ 7pm ~ The Magic of Christmas at KMC.  Featuring: Danny Balkwill, Jasmine Bharucha, Lauren Bowler, Joani Bye, Monique Creber, Steve Maddock, David Steele, Edith Wallace, with The Michael Creber Band,  Vanleena Dance Academy,  The CM Singers and performers from:  Mulgrave and Collingwood Schools.  All proceeds from the show will be donated to UNICEF and the Family Services of the North Shore Christmas Bureau.  "We are proud to announce that last year's show raised more than $8,000 for our beneficiaries.  Help us surpass that goal this year! The Magic of Christmas is a production of Creber Music Corporation."

 

===  Dec 12 and 14 Winter Harp at Cap College

~ 7pm - 9pm ~ Library Bd mtg in Peters Room, WVML

Please RSVP by Noon Tuesday, Dec 12th. Our host, Capilano Golf and Country Club, requires advance numbers for set up and food preparation. Cancellations are accepted until Noon Tuesday, Dec 12th in order to receive full credit.  Please call the office 926 6614 or email kathleen@westvanchamber.com.

Mayor: thanks to cmte and Cclrs Sop, Smith, Clark; owe a debt of gratitude.

Roff Johannson, Chair

RJ: propose an overview, not a synopsis.

Presenting options; started in June

WV is not facing a fiscal crisis; if we want to keep taxation at present level, or at sustainable level [must address some things]

ppl live here love this place

the ppl who work here also live this place, pride and caring

Ccl shd be more aware of setting goals; cmnty wants to be more aware of the finances of the District

budget system of transparency

review of subsidies (not against them)

elephants not there, cd emerge; this will help face coming challenges

[introduced Task Force in Chamber to applause]

Sop: also want to express thanks, saw citizens incredible input

what steps now to make it future policy

RJ: want Ccl to be comfortable with policy

with more time wd hv bn smoother reading

now subject to more enquiries

Sop: did you see as a document to public for discussion?

RJ: hope so

user fees rooted in reality, we don't presently publicize the cost

what does it cost to provide 30 minutes of swimming time at the Aq Ctr?

at a starting point, we ought to recognize the costs, don't necessarily have to cover 100%, that's this body's choice.

We perceived a shortage of info on what costs are.

David Roach: well, if we have an hour and a half

there is an annex (B) where we discuss notion of subsidies, how to recognize them, in terms of user pay, whether an appropriate market rate, willingness to pay

became apparent fees not charged and shd be charged in our view, not covering enough to maintain for example, the fields (eg natural turf), Aq Ctr when overcrowding and can't handle the demand

drop-in fee of $5.50, at a certain point in the day a large number of users and if adjust fee might be able to shift demand to when utilization rather low

may wish to raise fees to shift ppl from drop-in basis to prepay basis

in terms of subsidies, if we're going to undertake a prog, an art colony or art studio on Argyle, how do we determine what a subsidy is?

if look at marginal cost, we wd say, diff between that and fee, capital amt and expense

District has to look at where it's spending its money; ppl willing to pay market rate

if raise fees to what they're willing to pay rather than a discount or subsidy then we cd lower the rate of taxation on the entire tax base or cd shift funds to Police or Parks where they can't charge fees

look for subsidies; find where you can raise user fees so they're paying to support those facilities

Mayor: huge things

one is transparency and the other is revenue streams

Sop: some will require a lot of study on our part, Ccl's, to make part of budget process

intensity shows us need study sessions

my concern is that this Ccl be well-briefed, sit and study this together; and that one or two of the Task Force be there to help, before going to public with it,

don't think we can get into this tonight

six or seven hours and I know Cclr Clark wants to

MS: add thx to TF; I was on two subcmtes, and as you heard tonight he's a man of v few words

want to make sure open and transparent

so public knows where spending its money, how and rationale

nothing wrong with subsidizing a prog as long as biz case, openly debated, ev understands why there

openly identify, openly transparent, there for all to see

ev citizen in WV knows where its money is spent

opportunity here

hope money well spent; challenge lies ahead

one recommendation is that some of the mbrs of the TF be on the Finance and Audit Cmte

VV: having been the only who voted against

had feared a cmte wd be afraid to get the tough answers and wd be able to obfuscate and procrastinate

want to thank, quality of ppl on the cmte and who presented to cmte; v pleased

some questions I was asking

I want to know how much per person per hour on a spreadsheet wherever (field use, etc.)

we've been on Ccl for about a year, 100 pages, what I realize now again that we have a recommendation and to forward this to another cmte

over the next two years will we get the numbers we want and need

two years left of our mandate

it's possible can do that without one answer

wd like to refer to recommendation: strike a cmte in Feb 2008 to report no later than Sept 2008

I'd like that to be changed to 2007 b/c the mandate's finished in 2008 so we can do something

Mayor: in our Cmnty Engagement cmte this afternoon we put milestones

think that's the way to drive this

JF: my thx as well

don't know if you had time for anything else! no music and muffins in the morning?

recommendations on hold

I too focused on D3, we'll need time to implement but did want to suggest no later than Sept 2008, staff's report

Ccl may not want to do ev, but public wd like to know what implemented, what changed, what not implemented -- staff cd give us a greater sense with a report

talked with the Chair and while this looks at fiscal sustainability but there's social and env'tal sustainability legs to the stool

RD: v gd report, thx

only a few months to do it; valuable; struck by how well-balanced

how important our services are to us; good, sound; sure we'll pursue it and implement where possible

Mayor: we had meeting with FT last week

Exec team met wrt kind of conversations

CAO: took some of the suggestions staff and cmnty had made

some major policy discussions, need support of cmnty

other recommendations we can and shd implement in 2007

way to involve the Finance and Audit cmte

ask to take a look at concurrently 2007 and 2008 and prioritize what we shd be looking at

finite resources, make sure Ccl and cmnty comfortable moving ahead with

change Tof Ref of Fin and Audit Cmte so can implement some

Sop: this is the ppl's doc; my fear is in front of cmte mbrs and three cclrs and then three cclrs another cmte; you, Mayor have not had time to see it until tonight

the way I see it, this Ccl shd meet with TF and go through it point by point so prepared to go forward

these specifics shd go to Ccl to public

let ppl dictate terms, what they want to see happen

courage of our convictions to make it policy in future

Mayor: Ccl did spend all of Wed morning, you weren't there, with all FSTF

so we do know

Sop: some recommendations more meaningful

we'll all read this, one person had to look up a word in the dictionary

Mayor: seem you're talking about process

MS: I'm a little confused.  Is Cclr Sop suggesting the three on the TF don't understand

Sop: three weren't

MS: can't we explain to the others?

Mayor: we didn't get sense of priorities

MS: reiterate, the doc is a common sense doc, a blueprint for how things shd operate in the District

prob'ly shd hv bn implemented before

one thing Mr Stuart brought up

tremendous, refreshing attitude of staff to embrace positive change

looking forward to the change

ppl ready for positive change, staff is, cmnty is looking forward to a more open and accountable way of doing business

looking forward to rolling up our sleeves for most of these recommendations

CAO: my closing comments

no questions this v helpful balancing economic, env'tal, and fiscal

work in progress, a catalyst for discussion

two on TF and on Fin and Audit Cmte that we utilize them to do work TF wd hv done had they had more time.

policy discussion with the cmnty; others operational that can be implemented fairly quickly

cost of programs can be done easily

next is draft budget; we've been waiting for this report

VV: this Sustainability TF had strength to look in all closets and found skeletons

I learned quite a lot

user fees contains the word 'fairness', we've perhaps been avoiding antagonizing some groups and wider cmnty pays

as for pay-as-you-go does mean we don't borrow to build, not that we're saving so when need replacement we have money

all these questions I and maybe public had, actually will be got at

if we do as Cclr Sop said, go through item by item, better idea and can start to implement

I am reassured all skeletons out of closet and we can deal with them

Mayor: Ccl shd exercise greater discipline

help to prioritize, keep taxes in line

difficult to do ev Monday night

CAO: re pay-as-you-go, example to get some direction

if not saving and not borrowing don't know how you're going to get these facilities

TF said clarity needed

Mayor: thank each of you bring yourselves for this and bringing us hope

on right track, hope to push, help us

Keith Pople: used part of the cold afternoon to read the report

does identify a number of issues that shd be tracked

user fees, pleased unrealistic to recover 100% of services -- use of beaches, green spaces, cultural facilities, and others

p 13, D3, think that's important; Ccl to review and report back

a couple of questions:

pp 7 and 8, charts show expenditures per capita, one PCS

chart no 1: what operating costs be?

CAO: expenditure for function, may involve contribution toward capital legislated to treat differently; labour, overhead, vehicle costs

KP, Dir/Parks: planning? maintenance staff?

CAO: depends on dept

for example a major project, the actual costs for a major project

KP: p13 proper inventory of District land and assets

hope that wd include an evaluation of the inventory

wd hope that wd be included -- good information for use in the cmnty

Mayor: Goal 1 in our plan -- waterfront, Wetmore, etc

we're seeing TF and biz plan anticipated and informed one another

CAO: TF and staff worked separately though staff provided info

just finished report on assets

a lot of this work has been done

matter of looking at ways of making it easier for the taxpayer to see

KP: compliment ppl who worked on this.

JC: didn't want to interrupt Cclr Sop earlier but wd like to add my kudos and thx; is excellent; commend them for the thought

know on their minds night and day; frankly hope we wd implement this with the same speed and diligence they had putting this together

so we shd

small gaps in the report, not a recommendation, certain areas where the cmte was reluctant to make a recommendation, rightly for Ccl; think that's sound.

MOVE forwarded to Finance & Audit Cmte

Sop: implementing?

Mayor: don't understand

CAO: to Fin/Audit recommendation then to Ccl -- decide to public? timelines? intent to bring it back to Ccl asap.

Sop: no prob with the intelligence on the Cmte; spent eight months, now to new ppl

my position is that what is lost in the wash?

if these are recommendations from an indepth study, who's to say take A, or A1, etc -- where's A9, etc -- has to be a process for Ccl to choose the priorities

Mayor:  on p9, rec is to go to Fin/Aud cmte, had lots of ppl interested in TF; that is how the TF recommended these recommendations come to fruition; see a great role for the Fin/Aud cmte

Sop: don't get me wrong; no way reflecting on cmte, wd it not be better for Ccl as a whole?

CAO: some of these recommendations will take years and others may take hours and a rec brought back to Ccl

if you go into the appendices there are hundreds of recs

sometimes 12 different things about a recommendation

this is a way, to Fin/Aud, with some of the TF, a way of prioritizing

MS: not realistic to think we can implement these overnight

some quickly, many far longer, many prob'ly chasing around five years from now

in the short run, intent of motion as I understand it, take to Fin/Aud cmte to take the most relevant into the 2007 budget process, that's where we want to go

need from CAO who's going to sit on this Fin/Aud Cmte

CAO: working with the Chair of the Fin/Aud Cmte, come back with recommendations Dec 11; can't see it wd take more than one or two meetings to rec priorities for 2007 Budget

some we might engage public in the dialogue

need good understanding and where cmnty wants us to go

VV: quite intrigued by Cclr Smith's uncharacteristic patience

sympathy with Cclr Sop

an amendment that to Ccl with six months to do...

Sop: want Ccl to take next steps and with proper feedback

if we're going to be transparent and meaningful

three as Ccl aren't familiar with this, feel shd meet as Ccl with TF, look at in depth

here's format and from there out to public

don't want this to get lost or misinterpreted; sometimes these things have a way of getting lost

MS: thank Cclr V that I've developed a very well-developed, well-needed sense of patience

we're sending it to Fin/Aud to get something done asap.

JC: I agree with Cclr Sop that we shd be kept up to date

those two things can be done concurrently (while Fin/Aud cmte working on it)

Mayor: certainly Dec 11 is our next ccl mtg, we can build in that all of ccl is part of this

CAO: if Ccl desirous of completing budget by end of January, will have to get on with this.

PASSED UNANIMOUSLY

8:07

CAO: working on this in time with FT

not nec starting point; we'll continue to get more info and take to Ccl

now that we have TF recommendations, can

Sop: facts facing today, probably 4.5%, based on labour rates 2007 and CPI.

Guess this is why this report is coming through

with TF report, easier to pare this down

meeting all the demands, difficulties?

take a, b, c, look at diff way -- this is how we did in past?

CAO: in existing labour market quite hot; shifting subsidies, user fees can shift reliance on general taxation; we're responsible for less and less of the property taxation our residents have to pay

certainly in 2007, can look at and affect that bottom line

no question challenging; figures include 2006 commitments wrt Fire and Police involvement in E-Comm.

JC: before running around like chickens....see NSNews here and wdn't want to see headline of 4.5% tax increase; lots we don' t have control of

Mayor: 11 managerial procedure changes and four??? for Ccl

try to steer the ship of state in a little diff course

Mayor: you're right about that; Ccl want to reduce it responsibly

CAO: this just on our current estimates

RD: looking for ways to pare this down...

8:14

adding daycare, cmte, req for deleg re NSh Spirit of 2010

Mayor: wd like to ask Mr Barth about snow removal

EB: we do need to target our efforts

no 1 is transit and emergency routes so can be emergency response

then to priority 2 wch is school access

then roads that don't serve as connections

up till today dealing with priority no 1; snow this year had to deal with something not in past, branches falling trees coming down

if there's someone in an emergency on a road not cleared, we'd clear

snowfall supposed to taper off today and sunshine tomorrow

wd caution ppl; expecting temperatures of -10 so be careful

Mayor: phones ringing off the hook...

Mayor: one addition: p207 of package -- Item 8: important to list City of Vancouver participated in mtg

8:19

Sop: so what are you asking for tonight? that and up to $12.5

EB: looking for approval to go into contract $9.985; really thought Ccl shd see full price

Sop: --

under this current and void bylaw; being penalized by bylaws to protect

find yourself next to sounds of a school yard

initial permit then go from there

know already expanded to 20 clients and plans to expand to residence across street also of 20

thank you for hearing my voice

Linda Weizel: lived on Sentinel Hill for 20 years, our quiet nbrhd next to amenities

know biz exists in nbrhds and don't.....

this has expanded beyond its initial... don't understand how this happened

thought we had bylaws, why are they not being enforced

alarmed we don't seem to be protected by our bylaws

we have a right to enjoy a safe and peaceful nbrhd

you have the responsibility to protect us

shd not have group daycares except in areas of public assembly

there may be a case for small daycares for five to seven chn where specified measures are met

I'm sure you'll help.....

in wch we all take great pride

Sheila Dallimore: wd like to paint a picture

my husband and I bought the lot at Younette Dr, to build house, raise family, and retire

judged it to have beautiful large trees, houses fairly well-spaced apart

best in country

over the years found we'd made a good choice, good nbrs, quiet and peaceful nbrhd, peaceful cmnty, nbrs respecting and helping each other

now these ppl want to run a biz.

daily traffic jams, many cars parked on both sides of the street, presence of great number of ppl, parents, deliveries -- peacefulness destroyed

as we live above, the noise will travel; a constant daily irritant

over the years, a few summer parties in houses next to proposed daycare and can hear ppl laughing but that's only once in a while.

nothing friendly or nbrly about a daycare

a biz space cd be rented for daycare

I used to take my grandchild to a building in NV, another is in Cap Mall, another in Pk Royal

the change caused by one property owner not a pretty picture, one destroying for many

asking you to do something to remedy for all of us

Norm Weizel: lived there for 21 years, first time felt need to address you and hope won't be back for another 21 years

live above but we do use Anderson for our access to TWay

that was my concern but only a few small chn thought we cd live with that

then seen increase and learn 18 in the present let alone the 20 for across the street

traffic is a serious matter

dark rainy, visibility a prob -- drive up and they back down onto Anderson Cr

less than 10ft from TWay; cars parked, coming going, no pickup space, no turnaround facility

I hv witnessed drivers creeping down in frustration bail out and go fast along Anderson Cr, why no accident don't know

two cars parked there all day now adding

when bylaw changes made: large daycare ctrs shd not be situated in residential areas; small daycares five to seven provided not impact negatively on cmnty

adequate space on the prop shd be on prop for pickup and turn around

adequate also for staff; obvious biz has bn allowed to grow without attention to safety.

situated where can grow, private residences do not

shd be where safe for residents and chn

Man: learned over week and a half

Citizens of Sentinel Hill slide presentation

all three surrounding [pointed out on map, photo; all here]

chart showing cars

congestion significant

cars are already doing u-turns in Anderson Cr and using nbrs driveways for turnaround

one-hour break in morning and afternoon (noise)

areas poorly lit

do not want further expansion and do not another commercial operation across the street

petition signed by 75 local residents wh do not want this including three adjacent

cmnty has been informed daycare has questioned bylaw to be unlawful

but owner has signed saying abide by bylaws and regulations

final analysis: do not allow daycares -- as in 3.2; public assembly zone

if you pass this bylaw with all the uncertainties.....

do not want nbrhd ruined; want Ccl and staff empowered to enforce bylaws

Mayor: anything further Mr Beauchamp wd like to add?

RB: no

Mayor: motion on floor for discussion

RD: not sure wch

Mayor: cd receive report then other--

SJN: if Ccl is considering 3.2, to remove group daycare in sgl fam, that wd retain fam daycare

APPLAUSE

Mayor: that cd be first clause

RD moved receipt

....

CAO: rather than craft wording......

RB: believe prov regulations cover fam daycare up to seven

Mayor: let's try this; open floor but have to be disciplined about discussion

SJN: one is rec by MMgr and the other is 3.2 that wd prohibit

applause

Sop:...20 years ago, did look at reasonable opinion it wd stand for something

heard from a concerned group of ppl, more than not having a daycare, but change of use within a nbrhd.  This is commercialization. Expanding in nbrhd.  The very law, RS 3, 4, 5, says only subject to 31.1.10, now saying unenforceable then the original is unenforceable.  Want a legal opinion.

the uncertainties have to be answered in a formal way at least.

then follow 3.2 of the recommendation

I don't know we have to support a legal interpretation, Lidstone Young

there has to be a way to stop change ...

go a long way if we outlaw -- let the other up to seven

APPLAUSE

VV: on the whole inclined to agree with Cclr Sop but wd like to look at analysis -- it says 33 [daycares] in DWV

however two in nbrhd zones

not told about location or circumstances of other

presumably the other operating in a satisfactory manner

find a way to preserve the one operating satisfactorily so not close it down

APPLAUSE

Mayor: with all due respect, pls refrain from expressions of enthusiasm

JF: sympathy with nbrhd and ppl stressful finding place when having to go back to work

from my years on sch bd, daycare v desirable in WV; intense need

not unhappy with the concept of reducing the number

we do have a number of home-based businesses.....

if we disallow group daycares in residential nbrhds, do we accept those presently in place, grandfathered?

SJN: we can report back to you

wd include preschool

the one existing is on Haywood across from school, commercial on both sides

JF: what's the impact?

RB: current applications under current bylaw, ones received in future

wrt 3.2, give authorization to bylaw officers to withhold

JF: that's future but present, as in Anderson

RB: told by solicitors, if all reqs met, the current application wd stand

RB:...

amend by removing

operating meeting all requirements

Mayor: the challenge here

CAO: if Ccl intends to restrict to fam...

re withholding licence...

attempt to get a second opinion

MS: on M prop, commercial zone

SJN: permitted to continue

RB: don't think that's the biz staff

if a biz licence is issued in error

if made under current local and prov bylaws then not able to withhold

if change, can deal with and pull back

RB: there's the prov [regulations?]

Mayor: will have to clear gallery; debate and doing their best

JC: ?

RB: on calendar year

Sop: wd like to think these ppl pioneers

eliminate 712, still have 707? have in public assembly zones

used to have in basements

do see need for need to remove 31.1.10

don't think we can leave here tonight -- until they know we'll stop that second daycare

if we don't look and support them then have applicant go to court

Mayor: clear by 3.2

RD: didn't want to make motion originally g/c wanted to hear debate

unfortunate bylaws don't deal with change

agree daycare a good thing but two daycares too much; difficult situation

stuck with bylaws not properly crafted for challenge at hand

I MOVE prepare zoning bylaw to prohibit group daycare facilities in [resid areas]

require applicant to reside in dwelling unit?

Sop: If doing away with no one

RD: withhold any daycare applics

.....

CAO: helpful when staff report back that they report on three last items, if they apply to fam daycares as well

Mayor: compliance with all bylaws

JF: pt 3, staff report back to Ccl with recommendations wrt biz licences

legality of section 31.1.10 and if enforceable

Mayor: better separate or three in one

MClk: sep

Mayor: first two points, then another mention

DONE
JF: third

Sop know what she said

MS: didn't catch; wd like at least to be told what we're voting on

JF: legality when they come up for renewal

and legal opinion if 31.1.10 illegal, does that mean the rest of the bylaw illegal?

MS: if ev biz licence complying in M onerous

RB: v clear

Mayor: to do with this applic

CAO: how biz licence cd be denied if contravening our bylaws

Mayor:?

CARRIED unanimously

9:58

motion to extend

MS opposed

Mayor: then mtg ends

Sop: if I promise not to talk

10:02?

Are you wishing to address Ccl b/c we're trying to move through the agenda here--

Mayor: I have you under Correspondence [shuffle of papers].  Oh I see; this item of Correspondence, thought you meant Correspondence agenda--

CR: Oh sorry.  No.

b/c you're in a hurry, what I wd like to say, is if you are going to reinstate the electronic, putting link on website to Correspondence, then I will not speak

Mayor: we haven't had our discussion yet so it's difficult to know

CR: cd I not speak until I get the idea whether or not it's worth saying anything?

Mayor: No. The opportunity to address Ccl is before Ccl has its discussion or at the end of the mtg as you know, at Public Comment Period

So, I can give your three minutes right now, if you like

CR: okay.  Then what I wd like to say, and this might not be worth it b/c I'm sure a lot of you are v common sense ppl

it was distressing that this was cancelled and done behind closed doors.  The public--

Mayor: what was cancelled?

anyone who comes to speak had to identify

It's been done for more than 20 years [letters made public, b/c part of package in Library before Internet].  I think that anybody/people who comes/come to speak to Ccl has to identify themselves and there might be a compromise if there really is a concern and it's not just a clash of cultures with ppl who aren't accustomed to a situation in wch ppl are open and can disagree with respect and not threats.

but the essential part is to have content, for example on tonight's Ccl Agenda there are many letters about the Clovelly/Caulfeild nbrhd.  It's got all the names but we have no idea whether in favour or against, no idea what issues are, so the essential thing is that the content of the letters be there.  If you have a privacy issue, it doesn't matter what you do [re identity], but the content is important for ppl to see.

If you have those concerns, another way of addressing it cd hv bn, and if anybody wants to write to M&Ccl, we have a form to fill out.

I know that groups are not allowed to write to M&Ccl unless they identify the names, full address, b/c in the past year one of the groups sent in something and they thought that the group was registered and it wasn't, so that letter was held up for a couple of weeks while the Clerk's Dept said they had to register their address.  I have no problem with that; it's just that we have to know.  It cd be a form.  There are sev ways of approaching this.

Also if it's a question of saving time, one of the things that cd be done is all the minutes of cmte mtgs and letters, cd be scanned at once and put in so it's not a question of doing them individually.

I know most of you, if not all of you, campaigned on openness and I think having what the public thinks is part of openness.

If you have to delete the names and addresses and I suppose if it's about a certain item, you wd have to know if someone lives in WV, b/c you wdn't want a whole bevy of ppl from Vancouver, delightful as they are, saying they don't agree with something; but I mean you might want to insist that you have to know if they're a resident of WV

I really strongly urge that you continue, reinstate, having the content of letters, so that we know what's being discussed, and esp since one of the items is responses to Correspondence and [another] responses to PQP, and they're blanked out so we can't see what staff have replied to what someone has asked or written to M&Ccl.

[a fluttering clap from gallery]

thank you

Mayor: thank you

all right, moving to the issue then, Cclr Ferguson, wd you like--

[this time she forgot that Mr Pajari had also signed up to speak!]

oh, I'm sorry--

GP: I'll try to keep it v quick

I read the memo and I understand that staff is concerned about possible liability and privacy issues.

I also think that some assumptions in the memo might not stand up to scrutiny if Ccl were to take some time to study the issue.

The point is made that ppl who write to M&Ccl have a reasonable expectation of privacy.  I find that v hard to believe, almost as hard to believe as ppl who write letters to the editor have an expectation of privacy.

There are inconsistencies here that I think need to be considered.

So what I wd suggest without getting into the reasons b/c of the time constraints, is [adding] an Option 4.5: publish the Correspondence electronically not using paper, batch the correspondence so there's less labour time, and in the notice that is sent to every correspondent who writes in acknowledging their correspondence, add an item wch says your item will be published unless the Clerk hears from you within ten days.

Since you don't publish Correspondence that you have received in this timeframe, that gives correspondents more than adequate time to withdraw items but the default will be the existing policy.

So I wd suggest either withdrawing this item or deferring it for a couple of weeks until we can consider it more fully, or implementing Option 4.5 wch is notifying all correspondents that their letters will be published unless they otherwise indicate.

Thank you very much.

Mayor: thank you, Cclr F, wd you like to introduce this motion?

JF: frankly, I struggled with this.  I prob'ly agree with the two speakers who have come before us this evening with their comments, so I wd in fact be prepared to move that this item be deferred until staff can report back on the options that hv bn suggested

Mayor: all right

No discussion on a deferral motion, is that correct?

All those in favour of deferring until Dec 11, is that all right?

MClk: We'll try Madam Mayor.

Mayor: She's drowning under all the paperwork for the Correspondence

That's fine.  This is certainly really a delicate balance

between the expectations of privacy and the public expectation that what comes to Ccl is part of the public domain.  It's a bit of an unknown, so we'll take our time with this decision.

All those in favour?

DONE; DEFERRED

10:07

RECOMMENDED: THAT authorization to proceed with public statutory notification of the proposed sale of 543 - 9th Street in accordance with the Nov 16 report of the Director of Planning, Lands and Permits be confirmed.  {SALE TO MILLENNIUM}

Sop left [conflict of interest]

SJN: important that this info go to PH; same issue was published prior to prev

10:08

JC: remove 9 and 10

Mayor: some to speak to this

Robt Laurie: put name on speaker list [before seeing] Dec 11

Mayor: yes

Mayor: see you then

MS: have we considered [moving PH from] Kay Meek? why not here?

mtg to discuss Spaxman report half full

I'm just throwing that out

Mayor: if MClk has--

Ssch: [re notification legally required] 3400 ppl, two notices [in NSN and Outlook]

Mayor: have followed up with Pam Best

JF: might be possible, Srs' Ctr bus run up to KMC

Mayor: ?

Ssch: I'll look into that

Sop: number of letters from Clovelly Walk; where are we with those?

SJN: not sure when av most likely early Jan

Requests for Delegation -- None.

11. REPORTS FROM MAYOR/COUNCILLORS;

Mayor: holding down fort with storm

crews doing a good job

12. PUBLIC QUESTIONS/COMMENTS

13.  ADJOURNMENT ~ 10:25

===  PUBLIC HEARING AGENDA Dec 4th = ; ===  7pm at Kay Meek Ctr

OFFICIAL COMMUNITY PLAN BYLAW NO. 4360, 2004, AMENDMENT BYLAW NO. 4492, 2006;  AND  ZONING BYLAW NO. 2200, 1968, AMENDMENT BYLAW NO. 4493, 2006

      (a)       Report from the Director of Planning, Lands and Permits dated November 27, 2006 re Community Benefits Associated with the Rezoning of Millennium Evelyn Drive Planning Area Properties;

      (b)       Report from the Manager of Community Planning dated November 13, 2006 re Evelyn Drive Official Community Plan Bylaw No. 4360, 2004, Amendment Bylaw No. 4492, 2006 and Zoning Bylaw No. 2200, 1968, Amendment Bylaw No. 4493, 2006 (received by Council at its November 14, 2006 meeting);

      (c)        Report from the Manager of Community Planning dated November 6, 2006 re Evelyn Drive Area Official Community Plan and Zoning Amendment Bylaws (received by Council at its November 6, 2006  meeting);

      (d)       Report from the Spaxman Consulting Group dated June 16, 2006 re Evelyn Drive Area Plan Final Report; and

      (e)       Correspondence.

===  HAIKU  ===&n= bsp; 2006 November 29

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