> SJN: receive reports and Staff to say what action to be taken.

> SMikicich, Planning Dept, gave background:

apptd by Ccl; Wkg Grp 2005, met on 12 occasions

draft proposals, public input from Oct mtg, presented findings early this year

[slides]

trees, blasting, rainwater

Sir Francis Caulfeild, and existing OCP

series of actions: ......

Clovelly Elementary Oct 2006, public opposition, quite negative

added cost and uncertainty.....

not unique to nbrhd, M level

thought nbrhd planning process destructive..... rethink

> Paddy Sherman, Chair: since set up, attitude has been changing since WG set up

prov now talking about going green; sustainability; ...designing with nature rather than destroying it

WV's magnificent -- risks losing if it doesn't change present regulations permitting slash and blast devt

one special natural setting was about to be seriously damaged by new devt

must make one point abundantly clear, mbrs know devt and change inevitable, never hope/intention to retain ev tree and rock; our goal always to find middle of the road ways

consider interests of new owner and existing residents --  what brought all of them there in the first place

winding lanes, tree canopies, streetscapes, rockbluffs, homes that fitted into the landscape

the very features advertised as desirable for new homes even as trees coming down and rocks drilled and blasted

another goal -- to find for Ccl a nbrhd process;  one that might be used in other areas in WV but not practical

most wanted changes to things that caused excessive runoff, risks,...

but rumours spread that regulations cd penalize their position cf rest of cmnty, lower value of props, unfairly strip them and not others of prop rights

WG listened to those fears but even tho research showed groundless, broadened scope but took them into account

report long and detailed, recommendations are in three sections: local nbrhd, district-wide, and dealing with future nbrhd planning processes.

this began with what was happening in one small block but affected ten wooded....

if other.....  prospects rather bleak

with present tools av to staff, not designing w/ nature

need a more scientific way of dealing with slopes and nbrs

rather than.......

ppl from other parts of WV have expressed alarm to us...see this spreading, eroding the essential character of their nbrhd

examine on a broader basis makes so many nbrhds special

lost lot by lot cumulative small steps, reduce cmnty

note that under WV biz plan, design with nature is a Ccl goal to be implemented in two years; can help meet that timeline

changes urgently needed; we urge you to move quickly; so not embarrassed, did too little too late, when it had a chance; best practices

Let me paraphrase Edmund Burke again: The public interest requires doing today what enlightened ppl wd wish five or ten years from now had indeed been done today

can give list of speakers -- with emotion and deep conviction

if ev spoke, v long evening; have speakers from outside to HBay, commend them to your attention

> SJN: thank the WG for all the work they did do -- Pls hold your hands up

a tremendous amt of work, that Stephen Mikicich and Claudia Freire

WG recommendations for nbrhd processes:

1 - defining nbrhd boundaries; diff ppl have diff ideas

2 - must include sufficient detail so public

3 - effective and ongoing communication to provide regular updates to dispell rumours

4 - intent of a local planning process must be made clear at outset ....without further debate

5 - role of citizen volunteers must be made clear, to learn, debate, garner input, report back with suggestions

District-wide applic: design w/ nature was central

Devt Permits wd be required and when opposition, then voluntary DPs

often run into variance required to protect and when they ask staff, find out three month process and public mtgs -- will just bld and not risk not approved

if meet criteria set out, then staff may be authorized as part of bldg permit process to approve

cd also help out with probs BofVariance running into

Urban Forest Mgmt

need for view, sunlight, and safety; instances of complete lot-clearing occurring

landscape itself is valued -- look at that on a District-wide basis; come up with principles

tree preservation the preferred course, character, rainwater mgmt -- principles as an education tool not regulation

rock removal: under what circumstances

specific recommendation; review quantity currently allowed -- lowered as a right

debates on both sides about why removing rock

fourth: better enforcement of blasting regulations

in last year staff have revised process: not only preblasting surveys but also postblast survey, quantities of rock removed

overblast, made to fill in -- gone to expense but not gained

fifth recommendation -- retaining wall

impact on streetscape, drainage, apropos at this time to review

with the amt of money invested, a minor cost of the lot

the amount of soil moved around has moved drain and increased height

also part of mgmt

rainwater mgmt -- measurement, using trees; seeing impact on what is going into ground

more effective to deal with rainwater on site rather than when it's left

landscape based solutions to prevent

tree canopy solns

brochures how to best manage; scientific approach

7th is Cmnty awareness

things appreciated in cmnty

those examples I can emulate on my own property

detached garages -- at rear as intended when laneway when required, even at back now but removes a lot of backyard -- put within rearyard setback, review that

9th: rainwater infiltration

limit impermeable surfaces -- we have put limit on front yard

with swimming pools, patios, driveways eliminate almost all surface then to nbr's or our drains

large intersection Keith Rd and Caulfeild, adjacent to school, wd like to see that reduced to a turning circle, traffic roundabout; dropoff, improve safety

this year doing a Heritage Register review -- not designation, something to recognize; put some resources into that

third is paths and trails, Clovelly Walk extends along street and trails in some cases; west of Keith is a trail, road allowance, convert to park trail

one priv prop in there, looking at it with owner

future nbrhd planning; Ccl explore the following --

what makes WV special

wch of these characteristics if lost by cumulative over time, accordingly preserved in future

what characteristics are unique to WV or nbrhd

issues imp to them -- those same issues were shared in other nbrhds in WV

a commonality

second recomm is that the cmnty dialogue be used as to what form of nbrhd planning, what areas for future consideration

mbrs were surprised at how much work involved and diversity of opinion in the cmnty

what types of issues in common on a D-wide basis

specific to nbrhds eg estate lots in Altamont

areas were specific; commonality

> Acting Mayor, Cclr JF: I too thank WG; admire their forbearance; hope heated divergence understanding

> Gene Quan: since 1973, family in WV since 1940s; opp to serve on sev cmtes and bds with WV, currently on Bof V

during participation this process, impressed how sensitive in carrying out Ccl's mandate; final moderate, perhaps too moderate

highlight the first recomm: that the District implement a voluntary DP process

can offer tremendous flexibility; based on serving on BofV

only the most committed prop owner wd go to the effort to save a mature tree, move a garage

great admiration of the few that come before us [Bd of V]

terrible for those who want to design with nature

in summary the report can offer much to the District

achieve goal

a brief personal observation: this cmte really impressed me

traditional values we hold dear, respecting views of others

mindful of all residents and prop owners

concern for pressure groups; dealt with mindful of way Ccl has to, with OCP; they acted in best interests

findings worthy hope will achieve

>Lee O'Neil: 1470 Gordon Aven, resident of Ambleside

in full support of Clovelly Walk group to preserve their character, designing with nature

live in rainforest, most ppl who don't live here want to

drive around, disheartened what I see -- do we need to tear down and clear

led to understand creeks protection on either side of the bank and seems to be ignored, wonder why

retired now but working in apt bldg industry in San Francisco, 40 years  [ago, regulation that] trees had to be planted in front of bldg, 25 x 120 so a challenge

we did as we were told

when I first arrived in SF streets barren, now treed and lovely

shd be a requirement here -- when a lot is cleared, native trees shd be planted regardless of size.....

fewer fish and loss of habitat, a cmnty has a duty to preserve [?] what's been torn asunder

>Derrick Ward: 4624, lived in WV for 54 years

speak to this with passion; shopping ctr, Someplace Special

wildlife, and ...  enticed ppl across bridge to live on forested hillside

known for architecture and ....

seen it become increasing ordinary, slash and burn, .....

evidence of this trend, clearcutting for houses designed for flat lots

signif alteration of drainage patterns.

no way to legislation taste, if palm trees rather than salal puzzling

encourage less intrusive..... addressing needs of

proposals moderate, provide a framework' relevance beyond Caulfeild

in danger of becoming another Maryhill bypass, Westwood plateau, Taylor's Outlook

most regulated, most expensive

> Gordon Ward-Hall: endorse and encourage WV to [adopt]

[if had been in place] wd have prevented both in Clovelly and in some newer nbrhds

devpd without consideration for natural [contours]

cd increase time req'd therefore clarify not increase

> Diane Bryden:  Dund; sort of things my nbrs wd like to see

not enough guidelines if not enforced

blasting not as much a concern to us

limit to run off, garages taking off

4800sf on a 60ft lot, complied with major part of greenspace req'd, by planting grass on his roof -- ...

retaining wall and stone, not a single blade of grass

retaining, now destroying

This wd enhance prop values and...

> Beverly Sharp: 4681 MDr; my situation not an easy one

in view of VSun may be carrying my story in coming weeks...ask for your sensitive

hunting biggest purchase of life, journey, took me two years

ev weekend, saw 200 homes

home in Caulfeild area, time to rejoice, a lot of green space and a lot of work to do

dealing with difficult site, imp to create living space

two years with pick and shovel to create my own pond -- pleasure, escape

difficult life with husband and severe autism of my little girl

guts, money, sgl parent; LOVAS and it taught myself and woman I hired, just how to learn and she's doing v well

my pond became one of the tools learning how to count, dropping rocks......

my pond was pristine and clean and req'd minimal chlorine to keep, and a couple of top ups in summer

bldg above me -- my pond became a mud pool, required me to fill it on a weekly basis

obviously the construction above my prop had everything to do with this

after clean for 15 years, blasting above my prop to do with this prop

upkeep and watermetering, had to cover with river rock, $370, had it filled

I want ppl to create...... myself and my family too

sad to hear division in nbrhd due to Clovelly initiatives.....

support; if in place, myself and my two chn wd still be...

> Daphne Hales: fully supports work of WG

v grateful to owner above, gave donation for land to be a park

grateful to staff who helped us...

we've lived on the south side of Cl Walk for 38 years

bldg north of us affected us; runoff

still flowing; appearing on MacKenzie Dr

several trees fell into our prop -- literally washed off the land -onto roof smashed, arbutus

had been assured 20ft wd be left...

this clearcutting wd turn road into icy hazard

thx to M staff, ditches and storm drains added and .....

a lot of expense and work for us, none of this nec if devprs had taken care

bldg above... instead of sheltering...

one new house beautifully place by trees

others high; aesthetic

caused leaching of brown liquid

cdn't we arrange that new buildings enhance our nbrhds rather than detracting?

> Frances Gray: 50 years

my daughter currently lives next door tome and next to Daphne Hale and share difficulties....

many don't know history --  Bruce Ramsay

quote from Sir Francis William Caulfeild when he arrived at Caulfeild Cove previously called Skunk Cove, on Cates

when FC got off at post office/wharf down there

Bruce R described his thoughts --"here is a spot they shall not spoil"

had been through prairies

"I'll plan a village of good design according to the contours of nature, in 1898; ...village of

beauty and wise restrictions"

used paths of cows and now named after his village

> Ray Priest: Piccadilly N; thanks for support, wonderful display of info

prop values enhanced; given planning tools whole thing can work and work well

> Bill Park [?]: Regency Place; going to speak about process; will be critical, contrary view

WG est'd solely ppl who voted in favour of nbrhd plan, contrary to...

sev asked to be on cmte and now don't feel process

cmte did not present divergence of views

shd be fair process, transparent

chair shd be independent person -- staff or planning, not live in cmnty so not biased... didn't represent views.....

> JF: names and letters to M&Ccl; sent copies to cmte?

{YES, 60 to 70 names}

> JF: gave to mayor; Ccl did receive them

if cmte never rec'd them that's why no reference to them

> Ans: probably shd hv bn referenced so public...

> Mr Mitzky [?}: also one of the ppl in paper submitted; concerned residents, share concerns about process; not criticism of WG who I think motivated by good will

no representation of ppl who expressed contrary views; vice and vice chair passionate proponents

lack of opp for meaningful debate; many mtgs scripted

as a result we felt left out; process had a dynamic moving forward without us, regardless of our views

to get buy-in of residents, have to get them on side, feeling as part of process -- missing from this

see a lot of disparaging remarks

I'm a lawyer, read the statute, concerns about a DP regime, no rumour or misinformation; somehow opposed seen as right-wing zealots, no view of cmnty; not the case

a lot of us left out; this shd be brought forward on a D-wide basis

agree a lot of these proposals not controversial; unless broader input, will have a rough ride

design with nature, a voluntary part; spoke with staff; concern not become a requirement

good vehicle, good tool, but be careful not met with get a Devt Permit so becomes rule not exception

urban forest mgmt a hot potato, trees grow fast here and can take over a property; some ppl like light others shade; shd not have been considered validated

detached garages b/c of concern of a few b/c of headlight intrusion; I put lattice up, found a way to make it work rather than prohibition; bring this in wd downvalue property wd have to have garage in house

recommendations need a lot of analysis

wrt creek stewardship; I live on WCrk and this recomm came out of the blue.

troubling

maybe nothing to it but saw an email from the chair and vice chair Dec 4 2006, updating WG

encourage WCrk residents to channel their energy into a crk stewardship group, riparian protection

circumstantial evidence this person may not be in compliance

not way to est District policy, indiv fights; punish somebody

why WCrk and not creeks over whole District

probs when set up

nbrhd shared vision; has created dissension

authors of this paper think this requires another viewpoint

public doc, go with report, so balanced view

ppl want to get along in nbrhd, hope they will and hope this process will not prejudice that

> Barbara Pettit: St George's Ave; do consulting on residential zoning for Vancouver

my report has second page supporting my comments

nbrhd planning difficult at best, congratulations to WG, ev involved

toward sustainable devt, even baby steps good b/c so many afraid of change

what is being proposed is a win-win -- dvpr, nbrhd residents, M, etc

designing w nature saves money; opposite of pushing rocks uphill wch is what we do when windows face north, trees cut that hold back heavy winter and spring rains

20 yrs ago looking at large houses in Vancouver, looked at premeability -- some new had 96% of lot covered in bldg, concrete, or asphalt; in one case, one small corner had a shrub planted for green space

The loss of tree cover had other implications; on west side tree canopy adds a welcome coolness during hot summer days

in 1991 City of Vanc passed its tree bylaw; stipulates when and how trees removed on priv prop must be replaced

end with a bit of a dream

possible that no city in Canada better able to test standards for green residential devt than WV

favoured by orientation to the sun and its temperate climate; given the money spent on ea new home, just think what we cd do if some directed toward sustainable housing and nbrhd design

already indivs throughout LMainland showing Planning Depts how easy to build for sustainability

guidelines and incentives for others to follow

> CR: Good evening, Council, you're in the position of having to be Solomons with a vision, I see.

As I was listening to this, I started jotting down notes, so pls bear with me as I try to put them into sentences and thoughts -- and I was going back thinking about how important we all think WV is.  We all love this place and we all want the best for it, although some of us need a bit of nudging to take into consideration other people's wishes.

When I was on Ccl in 1988 and 89, and Cclr Day will remember this, trees have always been a problem.  In fact former Mayor Derrick Humphreys always said: trees and dogs -- you'll always get them.  At that time, we can't, as someone else has said this evening, we can't legislate for taste; but we can try to impose a sense of responsibility.

So at that time I suggested we have a scientific survey of how much water the land you're on absorbs.  When I made this point at a public submission for the new OCP, someone said I had to add 'retains', so I'm being careful to say that we have to study the land that you're on, how much it absorbs and retains, b/c that of course prevents erosion.  Then if you're going to develop on that land -- and the scientists can come up with, obviously it can't be 100% but if we cd come up with a figure something like 70% -- we will have some hope to retain the hillside.  So I will leave the scientists to come up with what percentage it shd be, but the freedom of taste then comes in that -- you can choose whatever trees, shrubs, whatever you want to put on there, as long as you make sure that you're being responsible and retaining as much absorption or this percentage, this majority that we want, so it doesn't affect drainage as we've seen [prev spkrs' and other examples].  Also at the new OCP submissions, I and many other ppl, wanted to try to make permeable [permeability] really important, permeable surfaces so that it goes down {into the soil, absorbed/retained].  There have been some new houses near us and they've got a drain [b/c of concrete/impermeable surface so goes into the sewer system rather than the soil], and of course it all adds to the problems we have with out drainage and our sewer management.

Anyway

The regulations we have, many of wch are v good, already as you know there have been many instances in wch ppl have not followed the regulations, and not only have they not followed the regulations that are in place, there's been no penalty, no fine.

So if we're not really doing a great job, and I'm not blaming you, this is just the way things have been for a long time, if we're not following it when we have regulations, I shudder to think of what's going to happen when we have something that's voluntary.  I think it sounds great but, how are we going to make sure this happens if it's voluntary?

Now, if we want to encourage ppl to design with nature, perhaps you cd consider a two-pronged approach.

For those who design with nature, have a speeded-up system through the Bd of Variance, Building Dept, whatever it is;  -- if you're going to do something that's really environmentally sensitive, we can fast-track you!  This is an incentive.  Or give you some other incentive to ensure that you see the benefit of doing something that's responsible.

When I listened to the ppl -- v much in favour of the Clovelly plan and others against -- what comes to my mind, and I haven't studied this, is that that divergence, perhaps it's a result of that area not being defined narrowly enough.  B/c you cd have ppl in these two blocks who want this, and three blocks over want something else.

In closing, what I want to say is, I'm glad to see this be pro-active, that you get a scientific study, that you encourage ppl to be responsible when they develop, and that they are accountable.  If they have a devt that causes damage, they are accountable.  They shd hv to pay the costs, not the taxpayer, and certainly not an innocent resident down below.

So, in closing, pls look at your regulations and see if we can have a report on, do we have the scientific information? can we fast-track it if ppl are being env'tally sensitive? is there a way of giving incentives to ppl who do these things? and do you have a way to punish, I shdn't say punish, to have not just they pay for the repairs but a penalty, b/c there are some devprs who will say that's just the cost of doing biz, well I have to do that anyway, but there shd be some disincentive so that they repair [and have a penalty, not just costs] and you put them on a list, so that if they're going to do another devt, we're going to look at it v closely b/c we've just seen damage from the last one you [they] did.

So do you think that you cd  please consider: the incentive, the disincentive, and the repairs, and not leave residents at someone's whim or desire to make more money from a large spec devt.

> Peter Miller (email): Good evening, Mayor and Council.  My name is Peter Miller and I live in the 2600 block of Nelson Avenue

I'm a retired architect and the President of the North Shore Heritage Preservation Society.

I have no affiliation to the Working Group but am active in promoting a similar special planning area recognition for the 'Upper Dundarave' locality.

I would just like to start by reminding everybody of a couple of statements contained in the Heritage Strategic Plan that was adopted by Council in April 2006.

It seems to me that the establishment of special planning consideration areas such as Clovelly Walk and, hopefully in the future other areas such as Upper Dundarave will result in exactly this preservation, and maintaining of the desirable qualities of our community. I don't believe that it's necessary to put restrictions per se on floor area or building height however the important characteristic of all built-form is to respect the surrounding scale, texture, built-form and landscaping. There is a saying that 'An Englishman's home is his castle' however although this may have been acceptable at a time when that Englishman's estate was many miles wide, today we live in much closer proximity to each other and what each of us does on our property has a direct bearing on the quality of life of our immediate neighbors even people living further away.

This Neighbourhood Planning process in Clovelly-Caulfeild has highlighted issues of relevance to many other neighbourhoods in West Vancouver: how to define those characteristics that make each neighbourhood distinctive;  what processes can be developed to allow homeowners, neighbours and neighbourhood groups to discuss and foster redevelopments which accommodate all parties needs; what tools can be made available to support the maintenance of neighbourhood character?  Thus we think it is important that Council support a district-wide process to discuss these common issues and to develop common processes and tools which can be used by each neighbourhood seeking to identify and preserve its distinctive character.

I would ask Council to support this request for a local area planning process for the Clovelly-Caulfeild area and thank you for your attention.

> Matthew Moore (?): basing my remarks on documents

importance of independent opinion; dearth of facts

save trees, preserve H, minim blasting, aggressive devt

opposition group finds entire process unnec, ...... Machiavellian

how do we form an opinion?

WG put together a rich cohort of proposals

some just yes; too specific? may be

wd hope Ccl staff eliminate wishful thinking

sadly the takeaway from Oct mtg last fall

alt recommendation paper, what went wrong in the process

project rammed down the throat of the unwilling

conclusion of alternative viewpoint, status quo find in land of milk and honey

whiners can roll up sleeping bags and go home

the original folk are the oppressors, seen that done in Texas politics as well

the opposition been v articulate as victims when in fact they're devprs, xxxx, and attorneys

there is a problem in streetscape, landscape

4640 Clovelly -- four subdivs, down to three, then tear down existing

harm to nbrs

my dear Kit received a $4 bottle of wine for inconvenience

loss of prop values and xxxxx

prob with opposition intent to oppose rather than propose

finally facts on all sides incomplete

hope Ccl can supply more facts

always preferable, more informed decisions

wager most residents don't fully comprehend what's being proposed

money is a normal driver of decision;

we live in a financial world, I work in one

change, moral zeitgeist; designing with nature, to be valued; a future larger than our own

RECOMMENDED: THAT all written and verbal submissions regarding Clovelly-Caulfeild Neighbourhood Planning Process up to and including the Council Meeting held on March 26, 2007 be received, and that Staff report back to Council regarding submissions received, and recommended actions.

VV moved, Day seconded

JF: likely timeframe for staff response?

SJN: anticipate toward end of April, within three weeks or so

on proposed actions, not on solutions

[laughter]

VV: some official recognition and thanks to WG; ;interesting report they produced

sure good result

whether exactly as laid out

tremendous effort

JF: whatever divisiveness, it has led to nbrs talking to nbrs

hope our brilliant staff will come back with solns

won't let it rest till be find

RD: cmte worked v hard; took a long time to read report

sections scientific in nature

tree retention, canopy trees, cd pose solutions, esp drainage, tree-cutting

some trees absorb more

preserve that tree, then can cut clusters around it

bridge the gap, those who want to save and those who want to cut them down

absorption

get the facts Mr Morse [?] talked about

all speakers spoke v well

those disagreed worked v hard as well, get that energy and good will working together

can accomplish a good deal; not only in Clovelly but in WV as well

encourage Mr Nicholls in preparing his report

MS: a bit troubled about Mr Nicholls's comment coming back with action plan not solution

need solutions, can't keep getting reports

fundamental fact is cmnty is changing

shd be a diff between building house in WV and Rmd' not like that here

clearly a problem

rights of prop owners and rights of nbr

nbrhd changes and that's not right

not report in three weeks, want to move to solutions

CARRIED

Review of 2006 Committee Work and 2007 Workplan and Budget (File:  0180?18?06)

RECOMMENDED: THAT

            1.         The North Shore Advisory Committee on Disability Issues 2007 Workplan be approved; and

            2.         The budget request for a one third share ($3267) of the total budget ($9800) be referred to the 2007 budget consideration.

JC: served long

incredible, amt of work they do, qty and volume; tremendous respect for them

they're asking for $3267 wch is one third of the budget and roughly the same amt of money as seven years ago

get them on Fin Sust Task Force, they really stretch budget!

7.         Consent Agenda Items - Report and Correspondence

VV: Item 8 census -- separated for discussion now or?

JF: go back

MS: like to comment on 22

VV: 21, 23

JC: 17

RD: 21

JF:?

SSch: cd approve with exception of [numbers], sep motion after discussion

RD: OKAY

RECOMMENDED: THAT the Council Information Report dated March 14, 2007 from the Planning Analysts ... be received.

VV:; wd like to know how many secondary suites

included with duplexes?

no note re that type here

with addition of info on secondary suites

SJN: Census -- do not count secondary suites

any est always guesstimates; some calculation; physical bldgs

VV: so cd have thousands

possible far outstripped

signif missing when it might be the largest component of growth we have

explosion of traffic

if best guesstimate staff can give us appendix added to this report

JF: this report is from Statistics Canada and we can't be seen as amending

cd ask staff's best guess, a report of our own, not seen as amending doc

CAO: pointing out perhaps a weakness

prob stats solely on anecdotal info; only legitimize them then can require info

staff can report back without amending this info

what mechanisms are in place to allow us to track this

VV: wd app an attachment to this staff report, or sep document receiving this info

JF: valuable info for us to have on hand even if guess for housing dialogue

CORRESPONDENCE LISTS FOR CONSENT AGENDA [pulled for discussion]

MS: re cmnty ctr; interesting info there, attaches quarterly report of how we're doing on this

look at roofing and mechanical, diff between ....... six months later but opening date one month later

re parking gotta be careful

try to be consistent

I'm not overly impressed by how handled by prev Ccl

don't want to be sitting here a year from now blown up in our face, over budget

need before this summer

end of second quarter report, flesh it out, hard facts, budgetwise staff wise, have project mgr here

if prob want to hear about it now not at end

req Mr Stuart, Mr Laing, and Mr Pike

get full report prior to summer recess

CAO: intention quarterly report, one before recess, staff mt ev two weeks

pulled this and staff to report on it

difficulties obtaining labour; week; primary concern cost containment still top, then xxxxx and timing

reasonably confid reasonably close

next quarterly report; well be talking to staff about that

wrt parking; loss of parking, in front was never intended to remain

VV: 21 and 23

21 re demolition; written up in NSNews quite well

Ccl appears to have abdicated its responsibility

demolished if not moved, within ED area

I feel similarly disappointed

what's root of prob? no one in staff mgr of heritage to prevent?

sign off to allow?

SJN: the bldgs prevented from demolition are designated

one private, two or three M/Public

supported or primary -- brought to staff's attention

when there was an adv body, regime changing somewhat

in this particular case

in initial plan for Keith Rd, looked at for preservation although moved

that entire devt approval not approved by Ccl

Cmte, all cmnty benefits -- did not include preserv of that bldg as daycare ctr, .....

and that was endorsed by Ccl

what has been made available if someone has use; willing to move off

not designated to be preserved; has been moved before

JF: xxx

VV: look for something

some of the money; designate some of those funds

in our stewardship, this Ccl will be guilty of getting rid of this bldg

what we receive from the past of value, shd be passed to future

disappointment at this stage

no demolition until see what can be done with it

do think it's our responsibility

CAO: has been moved once; wd hv to deconstruct it to move it a second time

if Ccl an interest in, can get some estimates

JF: motion

discuss issue with Millennium; some arrangement can be made

MS: vehemently object to budget making on the fly

pulling balloons out of the air

no idea if makes any sense to be moved

don't want to see any staff resources

drifted in on a hot air balloon so will vote against

CAO: perhaps be mindful of resources

limit to costs involved to moving it before deconstructing

have looked at other bldgs

$200K complications, find site, issues...  before

simple estimate what cost to move it

VV: active attention

JC: drove around; agree with MS

$90 later

JF: read back motion

SSch; .....

JF: initial report back to Ccl on costs

CAO: v clear on likely what Mr N's response wd be

merely to report it is not protected, and wd be taking no action

not on any H protection scheme

            Referred to the Director of Planning, Lands & Permits for consideration and response.

VV: letter wrt Collingwood School

Deep Dene campus having more students than allowed in permit

zoning designation?

crept up over the years rather than suddenly happening presumably; how track this?

SJN: when owned by Sch Bd, leased to Collingwood

M was asked for zoning change for site

controversy over this sale; specific zone for this site; traffic

said wd be limited to 600, started off fewer; put into zoning bylaw

came to our attention beyond... will be monitoring

JC: 17; I've brought this up before

flush pipes for two minutes ev morning

metered houses, for two minutes, shd run all taps in house

then before laundry, turn on washing machine for two minutes for cycle

EBarth, Dir/Engg: we take this prob quite seriously; reason for pH correction

what do we do in meantime; not a longterm prob, coming up in 2007/8

trying to find interim solutions to the prob

refers to flushing but tends to occur in west; all clear near chlorination stations

trying to monitor carefully to meet health standards

JF: do we know how many we wd use running?

EB: venture not so much

we advise flush anyway, esp in older homes and then use for watering

JF: lead soldering

know what happened to the Romans; aqueducts; well-known theory

SSCh: can call item 8 and 9 now

RD:  receipt too

* RD: went to Nylons concert -- daring, popular group

sponsored by Eagleridge bluffs grp and Old Growth Conservancy; 500 ppl enthusiastic; talk then Nylons; v enjoyable

v pleased night before sold out to an Iranian culture event so ctr seems to be doing extremely well

* JC: one of us shd talk about experience we all had

opp to enter a live fire through services of Fire Dept, Millennium turned over 15 houses; turned over for practices

found it incredible experience; how anybody can go into a room consumed by smoke and heat

JF: was a life-altering experience...  crawling around; hands and knees...  wdn't go that far

RD: after Fire Dept [gave[ us a v good barbecue

quite an adventure...  another tomorrow???

* JF: fire-jumping at Norouz festival; crawling through burning houses; attending a variety of sculpture events

a terrific event -- whole sculpture symposium

staff found profitable?

devping terrific relationships between staff, Ccl, FN [?]

CR: Good evening... [Carolanne Reynolds, Editor of WV Matters; 1497 Marine Dr]

a couple of the reports made me wonder about some questions

On the question of the secondary suites, wch Cclr V asked about, about their not being counted, what that raised in my mind is if they can't count secondary suites, does that mean the ppl there are not counted, wch wd affect the census for the number of ppl we have in BC?

JF: can't say that entirely, but most ppl filed income tax notices and are registered with the federal govt for one thing or another, I can't imagine that they weren't counted in the census in spite of the fact that homes might not have been counted individually.  Does anyone on staff have a comment they might want to make?

SJN: we'll report back on that.

CR: I just wondered if they didn't want [it known as a secondary/illegal suite so not counted]... but then our numbers wd be low.

The second question wrt the house (wch I understand must be the one where the King and Queen had tea in 1939, wch is the first house in the British Properties [show home], I think everybody including heritage groups wd want to see that as win-win.  Certainly wd not be in favour of spending hundreds of thousands of dollars if no actual gain from it.  I think the assumption that we wdn't be responsible is not well-founded, or a lack of knowledge of the heritage groups.

What I wd like to ask you to consider is that whatever is found out maybe that information be given to the heritage groups so they can see whether or not it is practical or not.  There might be other things that can be done.  For example, not so long ago we heard about a lack of daycare spaces, and one of the suggestions was to put it on M property, or maybe on school grounds or something.  So this cd be something, for example, cd be moved somewhere to be a daycare for a while; but if ppl want to come up with something to make it a win-win, it's my hope that we cd talk to Millennium and talk to Mr Nicholls, and get Mr Miller's group and my group and the historical group together to see if we think there's something positive and win-win we can do about it.  We're certainly not in to just spending lots of money.

So

I have another question -- but... you want to speak to that?

MS: I just want to make the obvious point to Ms Reynolds that she's welcome to have that building for a dollar and so are the heritage groups.  They can buy it from Millennium for a dollar and can move it wherever they want.

My third question is, what that brought to mind, is I know at the advisory planning cmte mtgs, Ms Boyle {Planning staff} was quite thorough in mentioning the heritage and cmnty benefit, heritage part in that devt, and so it was disappointing that that was omitted when you finally passed it; however there's one question that seems not to have been addressed, and this is not necessarily to do with heritage, it just has to do with cmnty benefits.

At that time, I can't remember the amount -- is it $2 or 3M? -- was to be given to a charity of Millennium's choosing, as one of the cmnty benefits.  At the time I asked who chooses where that $3M or how it is spent.  It wd seem to me I wd rather have Ccl or a ccl cmte advising Ccl for their consideration, decide where that money's being spent rather than leave it in limbo or that Millennium has it for [charities] Millennium chooses, so I think clarity on how that money's going to be spent wd be appreciated.

JF: on the first item, Ms Reynolds, you do realize Ccl defeated the motion wrt the house

CR:  Yes, I realize--

JF: There won't be a staff report.

CR: I understand that Mr Nicholls is preparing one, according to the agenda, wch I understand was passed, will be preparing a response.  It may not be all the things some ppl wanted, but there wd be a report, and so-- or a response of some sort.

JF: There will be a letter of response to the individual who wrote.

CR:  I see.  Well, there might be another cclr next week who can try to bring this up again... higher numbers, you never know.  In the meantime then I guess we have to speak to Mr Nicholls, or Millennium, or whatever, but anyway I do think the point wd be to try to have something that's win-win, something that's a benefit to the cmnty as well.

Now, as to the $3M

JF: Mr Nicholls

CR: that's reassuring; I was hoping it wd be Ccl's decision.  Do you have any idea about when that's going to be considered and what mechanism it will be? will it be a cmte, or?

JF: that's to be decided.

CR: so right now, that's just in trust until you decide what to do?

JF: correct

SJN: it will be in trust when, if, Ccl adopts the bylaw.

JC: Cd I just note that the Mr Nicholls you want to talk about about this house, is not this Mr Nicholls, it's actually Mr Nickels of Moving and Cartage.

CR: Yes, yes.  And they can do it really cheaply.  A few years ago, some staff came up with an estimate of $800K to move the Gertrude Lawson House, and I phoned Nickel Bros and they said they cd do it for under $50K, so that's one of the other reasons we'd like to review what the decisions and the information is.  Thank you.

12. ADJOURNMENT

1.  APPROVAL OF AGENDA / 2.  ADOPTION OF MINUTES -- No items scheduled.

3.         B. Murray, North Shore Spring Bear Festival Society, regarding North Shore Spring Bear Festival REPORTS

4.         Community Engagement Committee - Progress Report ... to be received for information.

5.         Appointments to Community Engagement Committee (File:  0116?20?CEC)

RECOMMENDED:  THAT the following citizen appointments be made to the Community Engagement Committee for the term ending December 31, 2007: Patti Bolton; and Alex Tunner.

6.         Rezoning and Development Permit Application 06?034 (Collingwood School Wentworth Campus) Application Status

7.         Board of Variance Bylaw No. 4487, 2007 ... to be introduced and read a first, second, and third time.

BOTH RECOMMENDED FOR ADOPTION

9.         Consent Agenda Items - Reports and Correspondence

REPORTS FOR CONSENT AGENDA

10.       Development Variance Permit Application 07?003 (7040 Marine Drive)

RECOMMENDED: THAT the report dated March 16, ... be received for consideration on Monday, April 23, 2007.

11.       Development Applications Status List ... to be received.

12.       West Coast Railway Association - Royal Hudson Steam Train (File:  1605?15/1610?20?1684)

RECOMMENDED: THAT Council approve an exemption from the Sounding of Train Whistles Prohibition Bylaw No. 1684, 1958 for the West Coast Railway Association to allow the Royal Hudson Steam Train to sound its whistle while passing through West Vancouver on two trips scheduled for April 14 and 16, 2007.

 

 14. REPORTS from MAYOR/COUNCILLORS ^ 15. PUBLIC QUESTIONS/COMMENTS ^ 16. ADJOURNMENT

Wed there was a Childcare WG mtg, no notice; Thurs Cmnty Grants/NSh Social Services mtg also with no notice (in fact never in the at least seven mtgs they've had).  Finally the 'procedures' are on Ccl's agenda for approval Monday night.  You can read them at:

http://www.westvancouver.ca/upload/documents/council_agendas/2007/april/apr02/4r.pdf

In about 20 years of attending mtgs, I have never seen such a gap between what Ccl promised or says -- openness and transparency -- and how Ccl and cmtes have functioned (this 'new' organization) -- no notification, even announcing a mtg as closed, and at the beginning of a ccl mtg cancelling public comment.  Some councillors have told me they agree with openness -- well it needs four of them to say so Monday night.  That's when the rubber will hit the road.

The Local Govt Act (LGA) now the Cmnty Charter, requires notice, open mtgs with public allowed.  Apparently (whether it's staff and/or Ccl is not yet clear but immaterial, it's Ccl's responsibility to set policy), to avoid having to comply, cmtes were named "Working Groups".  When it was pointed out that the Cmnty Charter applies to cmtes appointed by Ccl, they've set up a "Cmnty Engagement Cmte" and now it looks as if they claim b/c this cmte appoints groups and the groups report to it, and then the CEC reports to Ccl, it falls outside the LGA/Charter.  The new terms are Council "leads" and Staff "Leads", with sometimes 'liaison'.

Some councillors have said that they thought or assumed notification was being made after being uncertain about 'introductory' mtgs -- maybe responsibility and accountability shd be clarified, then pursued, hm?

Good news: Mayor began mtg saying that PQP wd be on Cmte of the Whole agendas (cancelled by JF as acting mayor).  That left us all wondering about how that came about in the first place -- but councillors shd be embarrassed they went along with it unquestioningly.  Glad Mayor's set it straight.

Lots on notification and inclusion of public at cmte/Working Group mtgs in tonight's ccl mtg.  Details when WVM13 comes out -- and sorry to say, I still haven't finished WVM12.  In any case some progress was made.  Fin&Aud Cmte is meeting Tues 4:30.

The DWV website Calendar has:

--and the agenda, posted Mar 26, is at the end of this msg; Collingwood's Wentworth campus is the main item.   Startling, however, was the first note -- and this is what the notification/openness of mtgs debate was about tonight (but I was unaware of this during the ccl mtg b/c hadn't seen it) -- it says the orientation at the beginning is CLOSED!!!  There is NO legal basis for that.  FYI, in years past, during the first mtg, it's true the mbrs introduced themselves.  This was done with the public there.  Obviously mbrs only say what they want the rest to know.  They do not have to say anything they think is personal and private.  Usually they just said what their profession was (hardly secret), sometimes why they wanted to serve on the cmte and what their interests are, and sometimes what part of WV they live in.

What's been happening?  Has someone sprinkled some seeds of secrecy over M Hall?  They're sprouting.  Time to do some weeding!

As I went into the Hall for Monday night's ccl mtg, I checked the bulletin board as is my wont since that's where they have to post.  To my surprise yes, indeedy, there's a mtg posted (even now, and I've just checked, this meeting is NOT on the DWV website calendar).  So if you didn't go by the Hall to check the bulletin board you might not know there's a mtg.  Here it is (notice the beginning; discussion follows):

Main Floor Conference Room, Municipal Hall / Tuesday, April 3, 2007 -- 4:30 pm

           section 133 also applies to meetings of the following: (a) council committees...

PS: why Jan 23 in introduction? why no date of minutes? why no item for public?

        January 23, 2007 - Agenda / Minutes

        January 30, 2007 - Agenda

        February 6, 2007 - Agenda

        February 13, 2007 - Agenda

        February 27, 2007 - Agenda

        April 3, 2007 - Agenda

RECOMMENDATION  THAT Pursuant to section 77 of the Freedom of Information and Protection of Privacy Act, the Design Advisory Committee designates the Municipal Clerk of The Corporation of the District of West Vancouver as the Head for the purposes of the Act.
4.2  REPRESENTATIVE APPOINTMENTS TO COUNCIL STANDING COMMITTEES

        Lower Caulfeild Advisory Committee: a) Architect and Alternate; b) Landscape Architect

5.1 (5:20 p.m.)  COLLINGWOOD SCHOOL, WENTWORTH CAMPUS, NEW SCHOOL ADDITION.  REZONING AND DP.  CJP ARCHITECTS

ADJOURNMENT  Queries - Please contact Mandy Emery, Recording Secretary, at 604 925-7242

For in reason, all government without the consent of the governed is the very definition of slavery.                           

                -- Jonathan Swift, satirist (1667-1745)

A society that gets rid of all its troublemakers goes downhill.

                -- Robert A. Heinlein, science-fiction author (1907-1988)

Serge Latouche is an emeritus professor at the University of Paris-Sud...

Stop trying to change the world since it is only the mirror.  Man's attempt to change the world by force is as fruitless as breaking a mirror in the hope of changing his face.  Leave the mirror and change your face.  Leave the world alone and change your conceptions of yourself.  The reflection will then be satisfactory. -  Neville [who?]

Those who know how to win are much more numerous than those who know how to make proper use of their victories.

                -- Polybius, historian (c. 205-123 BCE)

On October 22, 1973, Pablo Casals died in Rio Piedras, Puerto Rico.   He was a musical prodigy, and studied at Madrid's Royal Conservatory before becoming the principal cellist and conductor of symphony orchestras in Spain and France.  He moved From Spain to France in 1936, disgusted with Generalissimo Francisco Franco's rise to power.  In 1946, he retired from performing to protest international recognition of the Franco regime.  He returned to the concert stage in 1950, and in 1956 moved to Puerto Rico, where he continued his crusade against fascism until his death in 1973.

He was one of history's greatest cellists, and many still recall his famous performance in the White House during the JFK administration.  He authored a metaphorical observation:

     "We ought to think that we are one of the leaves of a tree, and the tree is all humanity.

      We cannot live without the others, without the tree."

Dr Mardy Grothe:

People sometimes forget when you remember, but they always remember when you forget.