Ccl NOTES July 16
AGENDA July 23
Calendar to 31st+

by Carolanne Reynolds, Editor

Just one ccl mtg to go!!!
=  MAIN ITEMS Ccl mtg July 23rd; After it reconvened PH, the Wentworth Campus expansion is on the regular ccl mtg agenda (if three readings there'll probably have to be an add'l mtg for adoption); Ev Dr Master Plan; Redevt of 24th & Marine; DVP Applic for 4249 Rockbank (for Sept 10), Process for Consideration of an Equestrian Ctr,  DVP Applic for 4343 Erwin Dr (to set date Sept 10).  
=  Vive le Canada: Heritage West Van/RoyalTea; UPDATES/INFObits (Tax Rates; HAF Costs; Wentworth PH Correction/Addn); Some DWV Salaries and Expenditures); Calendar to July 31st
=  Ccl Mtg July 16th NOTES: Ambleside Town Ctr Strategy WG Recommendations (staff to come back in Sept); Update/Report on Housing and Nbrhd Character; Cmnty Ctr Qtrly report; Amb/Housing Qs at end
=  Agenda July 23rd; Letter to Mayor & Ccl re Wentworth PH transcript vs DWV minutes (compare A and B); Definition of Globalizaton; SPLOG; RoyalTea-by-the-Sea; Quotations

RoyalTea-by-the-Sea -- See www.royaltea.ca for information.
The eighth annual RoyalTea is at Dundarave Park from 2 - 4pm on Saturday July 28.  Please reserve by email reservations@royaltea.ca or call 922 4400 and Rebekah or Gen will record your name.  You are most welcome to bring memorabilia for the display table.  Wear a fancy hat and you may win one of three gift certificates.  This is an occasion to celebrate an integral part of our history and heritage.  Videos of the royal visit in 1939 and past RoyalTeas will be available ($5).  Pipers will be piping......
CNN reported July 23 cost of Iraq war so far $567B (without raising taxes to pay, so borrowing...)
===  UPDATES/INFObits -- WV
*** PLEASE NOTE wrt Collingwood/Wentworth Public Hearing:
The adopted PH Minutes have all the names.  Abject apologies for any concerns or inconvenience.  See sections below.
As a result of several callers a bit confused about the District finances/taxation, please allow me to clarify.  You may have read recently, and it appeared in a column in the NSN, that the DWV 2007 budget is a zero-per-cent tax increase however that is not quite true.  Council deserves congratulations but the fact is that the budget has increased, thus the taxes collected are a higher amount but it is a zero per cent tax RATE increase.  The mill rate is set, the same for the whole municipality, so if your taxes are higher it's a reflection of the assessment of your property.  The Finance Dept put out a helpful map of the neighbourhoods with the average assessment changes.  If your assessment went up around 17% your taxes wd be about the same as last year; if less, then less than last year and if more, then more than last year.
After many years of asking maybe b/c with more ppl/groups asking and it's now the will of Council, we now have a commitment that the salaries will be made public much earlier.  You've read in this newsletter over the years no reason to wait till after the budget passed since those figures are known by Feb 28 when by law T4s must be sent out.
Keep in mind that Council establishes a budget -- it comes first -- and then with the amount from the BC Assessment Authority giving the total assessment in WV, determines the mill rate so that the taxes collected equal the budget b/c a deficit is not permitted.
TYVM to Kevin Pike, Director of Parks, who, the day after the July 9th ccl mtg kindly provided the 2007 budget figures for the HARMONY ARTS FESTIVAL:
HAF Budget 2007 Breakdown of $59,400 Net Expenditure   
        Fundraising/Sponsorship $80,000
        Donation        $10,000
        Grants          $10,000
        Youth Employment Grant  $2,000 
        Jury Fees               $24,000
        Art Sales commission    $7,000 
        Merchandise     $7,000 
        Crews & Volunteers      $ 55,000
        Site Related Costs      $ 46,400
        Arts & Performance      $ 40,000
        Festival Producer       $ 30,000
        Publicity/Print/Misc    $ 17,100
        Merchandise     $  8,100 
        Program         $  2,800 
                                Net Expenditure:   $59,400  prepared July 10, 2007 
Come to think of it, by the way:
Do You Want To Volunteer At The 2007 Harmony Arts Festival?
The Harmony Arts Festival is accepting volunteers for this year's festival for production crew, Creative Kids Day, information booth, and more.  If interested, please contact Julia Adam at 604.925.7469 or jadam@westvancouver.ca and visit harmonyarts.ca for festival information.
v strange.  My letter had a paragraph added stating there were some omissions from the minutes wch were appended but there were no omissions in what was attached!  Though working remotely confused and puzzled, still my responsibility and trying to find out what happened.  Sorry.  Totally bizarre.
= B/c the DWV's minutes are brief and omit points made, by saying "spoke relative to", I sent a transcript of my submission wrt Collingwood/Wentworth Campus Public Hearing but had Additional comments and questions:
The traffic of course has to be settled and I understand that will be in the report before the resumption of the PH on July 23rd, but IMO the further geotechnical study really is needed given the heavier rains recently and the slides in the area.
Have all streams including ephemeral been studied?
According to DWV's procedures, has this aspect been evaluated by WV Streamkeepers and the Environmental Coordinator?  Will those reports be made public?
In particular, the effects of the four streams blocked or diverted into a drain should be examined since a resident stated he's taken some measures but still experiences seepage.
Can more be done to eliminate or mitigate the effect (previous and potential) on his property?  (and of course anyone else's)
Has DWV better policies now wrt creek habitat restoration and environmental protection that cd be implemented?
Moreover, wrt the topography and sustainability, has a study been made of the tree/vegetation retention? the before and after of rain/water absorption and retention?
We look forward to the results of the staff report on these issues.

===  CALENDAR to July 24th  ===  [M Hall unless otherwise noted; ongoing at end]
REMEMBER the Farmers' Markets:
   Saturdays: Dundarave 10am - 4pm; and Sundays: Ambleside (14th/Bellevue) 11am - 3pm

== Wed, July 25th
~ 6:30 - 9pm ~ Cmnty Ctr Governance at Srs' Ctr -- MOVED to Aug 14
~ 6:30 - 8:30pm ~ Child Care Services WG

== Thurs, July 26th
~ 4:30pm ~ Design Review -- CANCELLED
~ 5 - 7pm ~ Heritage Strategic Plan WG
~ 5:30pm ~ Police Board at Chamber of Commerce Boardroom

== Fri, July 27th ~ 8:45 - 10am ~ Arts & Culture Strategy WG at FBG

== Sat, July 28th
~ 8:30am start, Dundarave Park, Walk Run for Prostate Cancer
~ 2 - 4pm ~ RoyalTea-by-the-Sea in Dundarave Park -- see www.royaltea.ca
        (reservations@royaltea.ca or ph 922 4400 for reservations)
HARMONY ARTS FESTIVAL Aug 3 to 12 -- VISIT www.harmonyarts.net

+++  WV MEMORIAL LIBRARY +++  CLOSED on Sundays in July and August.
+ July 1 - 31st + GALLERY AT THE LIBRARY ==  "TEXTURE" {details in last two issues}

 +++  WV MUSEUM +++  Traditional Music and Dance of Scotland
The WV Museum building (house) was originally built by Gertrude Lawson, who hosted countless nights of Scottish dancing in her house. The main floor, made of oak, was designed to be large enough for two sets of Scottish dancers. There was a raised platform at one end for Scottish bag pipers.  Learn the ancient art of Scottish Country Dancing at the historic Gertrude Lawson House this summer!
You are invited to join for an informative demonstration of Scottish Country Dancing. May Loudon (experienced Scottish Country Dance teacher) and Angus MacKinnon (Scottish fiddler) will discuss the cultural significance of Scottish dance and fiddle music.
Each session (7:30pm) will focus on a particular theme:
July 11 =  17th century dances  /  July 25 =  Old dances still popular today
August 8 =  20th century revival  /  August 22 =&nbs= p; Contemporary Scottish dances
Admission to these sessions is by donation. Please call at 925 7295 to book your spot in advance.

+++  WV ARTS COUNCIL +++ visit www.silkpurse.ca for events (most ticketed)
--->  For events at KMC, see www.kaymeekcentre.com

===  CCL MTG NOTES July 16th ===

1. APPROVAL OF AGENDA: adding 3.0, Ambleside Entranceway
2. ADOPTION OF MINUTES -- No items scheduled
Mayor: Ambleside Entranceway; think we shd hv our staff report first.

{This is the usual process.  Background and staff report before public comment -- so they have some idea of what's involved and being proposed.  (See Amb Town Strategy, item 3, in wch this doesn't happen.)  Pls note also, that b/c this item was not on the agenda and added at the beginning of the mtg, the public wd not have known this topic wd come up so they cd show up or sign to speak.}

Geri Boyle, Planning Staff: 2004 OCP calls for reinforcing Ambleside Town Ctr; next item key but other initiatives going on.
One the cmnty may hv heard about, in early stages, is the Gateway to Ambleside to Marine Dr from Pk Royal Shopping ctr to 13th St.
wd be nice to improve entrance, more exciting
Project will not only slow traffic without changing capacity for cars but improve pedestrian -- visual clues, separated sidewalk, tree planting, landscaped boulevard,...
S side will actually be placed in the playing fields
third major impact will be enhancement to Sway-wey (sp?) Crk, filtration, improvement to Storm Water Mgmt System
results will be a much more memorable entrance to WV, a median, landscaping
take place in phases, first this summer
total of first phase is stormwater and north side; median and south side in future years
Timing will be determined by Ccl.
Mayor: any questions from Ccl?

{Readers of this newsletter will recall that I've asked and asked that whenever a motion comes to Ccl that the amount it will cost taxpayers shd be given at the same time.  Recently there was a grant approved with no amount in the wording of the motion, but Cclr Day referred to it as being about $35K, and later this mtg, Sop refers to $25K for the WV Cmnty Arts Ccl.
Here are my questions for this Gateway item:
a) how much?
b) was it reviewed by the Finance & Audit Cmte?
c) is it in the 2007 Budget?
The reason I ask is that when this came up a year or so ago, there were three options/designs presented.  They were on display at the Library for the public to choose.  No amounts given for the three.  They came to the Parks and Envmt Adv Cmte and the question was asked.  I think the costs ranged from about $400K  to just under $2M.  No surprise that without price tags, ppl usually prefer the nicest/most expensive one.
Why did no cclr ask when/if public input/process and/or how much?
will try to get the cost for you.} 

3.         Ambleside Town Centre Strategy Working Group Recommendations
     1.  The comments and recommendations of the Ambleside Town Centre Strategy Working Group be received
     2.         The comments and recommendations of the Ambleside Town Centre Strategy Working Group be referred to staff, together with public input received on the proposed Strategy, for a report in September 2007 on final recommendations for a Strategy and an implementation program.
Mayor: Moving to, I guess 3.1 now, Amb T Ctr Strategy WG recommendations.  We have a number of mbrs of public who wish to speak, so I think we'll begin with that, that way we can have the flow of the report from the WG and Ccl's discussion.

{As I said above, it's usual to have a presentation before comment.  WRT the Gateway, no one knew it wd be on the agenda; in this case, no presentation before public comment, wch can put residents at a bit of a disadvantage as to commenting.}

Begin with John Seddon [sp?]
JS: I represent the owners of Bellevue Landing wch is a mixed use residential and retail bldg at the corner of 14th and Bellevue, wch has its residential entrance at 2145 - 14th St.  Very supportive of plans to revitalize Amb but cannot in any way support the use of 14th St as a civic square or as a  location for Farmers' Market as we discussed two years ago, and we don't approve of its use for Harmony Arts or any other festival, functions.
Quite simple.  Our residential door is on 14th and it's our only practical access.
Some look out on 14th St and wd be affected by noise.
The street wd be closed to vehicular traffic and access to our bldg by emergency vehicles wd at least be impaired if not restricted completely. This must not be allowed to happen.  Fire, ambulance, and Police must have unimpeded access to our door.
Also concern b/c of sales, litter and garbage wch wd hv to be cleaned up, maybe hv to be done by us.
Festivals have to have toilet facilities, eg Harmony Arts, but don't like prospect of port-a-potties by our front door.
Parking spaces on 14th St are v much needed and shd not be eliminated.
A couple of constructive suggestions:
but first can't think of a better way to beautify Ambleside, waterfront, except to bury the ugly power lines that exist -- that's part of the OCP and shd be put in place, it's certainly time they were buried.
As for the civic square, if it's decided there shd be one, we suggest that 15th , 16th, or 17th between Marine Dr and Bellevue shd be used.
This wdn't affect residents in the way 14th wd.  A number of residents in our bldg wdn't have bought if they'd thought at any time that their access wd be impeded or a civic square.
When WV residents meet, don't meet in open air, not in a civic square, they meet in coffee shops and restaurants and that's as it shd be.
Have given you our written presentation.
Mayor: perhaps not mentioned by Ms Boyle, but the power lines between 11th and 13th are to be buried as part of the entrance, but that's not quite in yr nbrhd
JS: they don't end at 13th
Mayor: I know, but we've started...
Roberta Burney/Birnie (sp?): 14th St; lived there for nine years; agree with what John said, in particular wrt town square; parking is a problem; teenagers wd gather -- got 711 there
problem wrt access to our bldg; emergency vehicles, some elderly getting cabs, etc

>> Elaine Fonseca:  Prez of the Ambleside & Dundarave Ratepayers' Assn.
I've attended a number of these Amb WG mtgs as an observer, not as a participant, as there were no participants from any ratepayer assns on this cmte.
The 2004 West Van traffic study states that 20,000 -  29,000 vehicles  travel down Marine Dr across 13th St in a 24-hour period.  Marine Dr is listed as a high accident area -- this crossroads at MDr and 13th.  Imagine the traffic congestion from additional vehicles when the Evelyn Dr development is completed, 349 units, the Water's Edge (Park Royal Hotel site), 76 units, the Rodgers Creek area (Upper Levels) 2008 acres, ten times the size of Evelyn Drive,

{Whoops.  It's actually 208 acres, and that is about ten times the size of the Ev Dr devt, so just an extra zero in the number of acres but the proportion correct.}

and what kind of density us the Amb Town Ctr  going to produce and how many cars?
The 1300 block Marine Dr is considered to be the Gateway to Ambleside. What kind of a gateway are we planning on developing?
At the Strategy WG mtgs, I heard about a boutique hotel, an ofc complex, or both, wch was suggested by this cmte for 1300  block Marine, replacing the Police Stn and various other bldgs in that block.  How high will this hotel and ofc complex be? we heard six storeys? eight storeys?
It seems high density is advocated.
The present Official Community Plan (OCP) provides for two to three storeys. The Canada Safeway site in the 1800 block of Marine is also slated for higher density.  WV has more home-based businesses per capita than any other M in the GVRD.  The trend for major biz is home-based, as it cuts down on pollution, travel time, and ofc expense.  The City of Vancouver as reported in the V Sun is seeing a surge of this kind of biz practice, and this is the practice of businesses coming out of the home.  So why are we advocating another ofc block complex?
Now this Strategy WG consisted of Cclr Jean Ferguson, Chuck Walker, Michael Evison, Donal O'Callaghan, Joe Waibel, Ava Yazdani, and Dolly Cartwright.

{Pls note she left out David Chard (devpr), Rob Harrington (Amb biz owner), Karl Gustavson (architect, devt applicant), and Aileen McManamon (mother with chn?); Michael Evison apparently was added by Cclr JF as someone from the Chamber of Commerce and NOT appointed by the CEC wch is the procedure.  Note: another rep from biz and still no ratepayer org.  Some backgrounds: Chuck Walker is a bizman, owner of the Walker Building, Donal O'Callaghan (architect who's worked for IntraWest?), Joe Waibel (owns a lot of prop in Amb and Dund).}

This Working Group, as I said, consisted mostly of architects, developers, and businessmen landowners with no ratepayer associations represented on this cmte, and we live in this cmnty, and we wd like to think there wd be fair representation.  Now, high density in one block can set a precedent for higher density throughout Ambleside, and what will become of the Ambleside Village as we know it?  Will it just be another busy congested town ctr? another Yale Town?  What kind of devt are we proposing for all the residents of the cmnty, not just for a few?
Thank you.
Mayor: Next, Jann Gibbs
JG: my question wd be better at PQP.
Mayor: Lock Gibbs?
LG: want to speak about the Housing Dialogue Dundarave Nbrhd
Mayor, since this is also for later item or PQP: fine, thank you.
All I have for public input at this time; this is the beginning of the effort
with great anticipation Ccl hears from WG; will ask Cclr F what WG has been doing.
JF: delighted; make recommendation first?
Mayor: certainly.
JF moves: The comments and recommendations of the Ambleside Town Centre Strategy Working Group be received
JF: the Amb WG has met, I don't know the exact number of times, say a dozen or so
since the end of January, usually in the Ch of Commerce boardroom.

from DWV website (Cmtes/Groups page) copy and pasted early July 23 (All mtgs at 8am at Ch/Commerce except for June 22, 27 wch were a M Hall):
Ambleside Town Centre Stategy
2007 Meetings for this Working Group
Meeting Date                [NB: Time and Location deleted b/c noted above]                                   
March 29, 2007 -- Notes
April 10, 2007 -- Notes
April 24, 2007 -- Notes
May 9, 2007 -- Notes
May 16, 2007 -- Notes
June 5, 2007 -- Agenda
June 12, 2007 ---------
June 19, 2007 ---------
June 22, 2007 ---------
June 27, 2007 ---------
July 4, 2007  -- Agenda
NOTE: No info of mtgs wch started in January as Cclr F says.  Indeed, public cd not attend b/c they had no idea where or when they were.  You see there are agendas for only TWO of the mtgs, NO NOTES before March 29, and NO NOTES since May 16.}

All of the mtgs hv bn open.

{ABSOLUTELY UNTRUE, some open in spite of JF's efforts to close! 
Suppressed giggles.  First of all, how can you claim mtgs open for public when you don't tell public when the mtgs are?  How can you claim to inform the public when no notes for the past two months?  There still is no record on the website of the mtg held June 13 Cclr F referred to during Reports, so guess that was closed too.  One resident was told about a mtg about to be held as closed so when Mayor informed, admirably she asked so that the mtg was then open.  Cclr F also proposed an in camera mtg with Ccl and the other councillors said no reason it cdn't be open.  It appears Ccl committed to openness so some mtgs open in spite of Cclr F's attempts to have them closed.  This Vision/Introduction was not discussed or formed in open either; it was composed by email correspondence so no one else was able to observe this process to prepare for input at the ccl mtg.  And note, no chance for input AFTER they presented their recommendations b/c for some strange reason the order was reversed and the presentation was made after public input instead of before.  That's why any comment on this presentation of recommendations had to be made during PQP b/c the public are not allowed to speak once Ccl starts debate.  At introduction of this agenda item it was stated WG  recommendations after public input and 'flow into' Ccl discussion, so public cd speak but without benefit of update of WG presentation.}

Some of the comments we've received, the WG has also received from both of those groups.
Three residents of the Amb area: Dolly Cartwright, Aileen MacManamon, and Donal O'Callaghan.  Three mbrs who were land and biz owners within Amb: Rob Harrington who was also the rep for the Amb Biz Assn; Joachim Waibel, and Chuck Walker.
Two represented the youth of the cmnty: Selena Shannon (sp?), and Ava Yazdani.
One architect: Karl Gustavson
One devpr: David Chard
and Michael Evison who represented the Ch of Commerce
Felt this was a good mix, both residents and biz ppl,

{mix? two or three out of 11 are residents and the rest are biz/architects/devprs?  No doubt expertise needed but area's residents under-represented, biz interests over-represented even with organizations while no representation whatsoever from a cmnty/ratepayer organization! This teeter-totter is grounded.}   

so we cd look at the problems that appear to be besetting Amb and we cd find out from the ppl who actually own land and do business there, what the problems may be and what it was we cd do to ameliorate those problems, and from residents as to wishes, needs, and desires of the cmnty might be wrt a revitalized Amb.  The WG did hear from representatives ADRA as well as the strata corporation at Bellevue and 14th.
We spent a full hour one morning listening to both groups, discussing and interacting with them.

Again, early hours of July 23, copy and pasted from DWV website, Amb WG webpage:
Council Member - Councillor Jean Ferguson
Citizen Members - Dolly Cartwright, David Chard, Rob Harrington, Karl Gustavson, Aileen McManamon, Donal O'Callaghan, Joe Waibel, Chuck Walker, Ava Yazdani
Staff Liaison - Colette Parsons, Urban Design Planner 604 925 7237 [e-mail]
You will easily see that Michael Evison is not listed (b/c not appointed by CEC wch makes WG mbr appointments), no mention of Selena Shannon (and no one I've spoken with has ever seen her name or her at a mtg) also not appointed.  One named as resident we understand is an architect.
Does the Mayor or the rest of Ccl not know the truth?  consider 'being polite' more important that setting the record straight?}

Had one young woman come forth speaking for youth, their needs, and hope portion of cmnty benefit cd find a way for a late-night coffee shop run by and for the young ppl of this cmnty, so they too cd feel an integral and important part of Amb.
The residents have a personal interest in revitalization of the town ctr; the professionals on the cmte provided a level of expertise we were v pleased to get.  Everyone brought to this group the challenges, rewards, and expectations wrt Amb T Ctr.
Consensus wrt recommendations; discussion and compromise and ev mbr has unanimously supported the recommendations that hv come forward by and large; staff proposals received support with some clarification, and one with quite a change
Will ask Dolly Cartwright and Karl Gustavson to come forward.  Dolly wants to read what our collective vision is for Amb when it is revitalized and Karl wd like speak to the key refinements that the WG has made to the proposed policies.
Dolly: delight to be on cmte....
excited when again destination of choice, our seaside town ctr
see a nbrhd inviting us at all ages.
unique, well-designed, luxury apts, or small affordable rental units

{Reality check: who's going to build 'affordable' units?  how much is affordable?  given market not affordable, who's going to subsidize?  the DWV taxpayer?  Easy to see why seniors excited at the prospect but we must be realistic and practical plus identify who's going to pay and for what. And given that we cannot limit renters to existing WV residents, is it appropriate for WV taxpayers to be subsidizing low-cost rental units for people to move into WV?
In short, if you build it they will come, and if you make it cheaper they'll come faster and in bigger numbers -- and maybe even crowd out local residents!}

to shop for the essential and exotic, in new and renewed bldgs; biz and commerce in a thriving core
enjoy cultural entertainment
to stroll, walk with walkers, electric car, whatever you have; with aging, motorized scooters
dine, wide safe sidewalks, winding lines to waterfront
bring back what WV shd be, a seafront
Karl Gustavson: resident since 1981... sustainability
goal was 1.75 max in all of Amb

{whose goal? dvprs/owners wd love this if they have .4 now.  Besides,  it's really 2.75 with the bonus structures they want for themselves!}

smaller sites, up to 60ft storeys to 120 three; above, four storeys
setback requirements; only the larger sites 1.75
still analysis and due diligence
three large sites, 13th Safeway, 14th, potentially going past 1.75
hoping density bonus for rental apts of .5, comm office, .5 so potential 2.75
wd go through rezoning process, hts have to be proven
we don't know -- cd be six, eight, or five storeys
flexibility and variation
McDonald's realty site beside Kiwanis Lane -- Rotary Lane; cd use second storey
another 1000 sq ft encourage retrofit; LEED certification standard
1.72 Hollyburn Medical

{the infamous TUB, Truscan Unmedical Bldg, b/c ~90% unmedical -- condos}

IGA 1.6; Dundarave Village Mews 1.4; Clearly Cdn building on Bellevue .75
not scary to look at, functional
this process went through design, gave endorsement

{This is misleading b/c no design guidelines were given, just a very general presentation so that the Design Cmte asked about concept -- that was a mtg I attended and the mbrs did not touch on questions of density so it ought not to be assumed they agreed with the density.  They see their role as design.  Planning/Ccl handle applications as to density/FAR.}

our cmte unanimous, such a diverse group
Staff come back in Sept
WV behind the times, want to be leaders
Mayor: questions?
Sop: WG cross section in cmtes; what done to date, a good start; attractive initiatives...
cd be done in other places
now look at 17th and Marine; with presentation, work to be done, sure will be attractive
look at road ends and how conduct traffic through it
request that future developers present bldgs pull away from sidewalk and create walkabout, three distinct nodes; around our building; attractive mtg place
we'd better take a step back, baby steps
cannot support prezoning up to 1.75
1783 Bank of Mtl, has .60 not v big, attractive
sev small, unless amalgamate not going to get benefits
you made point, Mr Gustavson, the process they have to go through, we cd look at
restoring a small property
what I cannot accept is 60ft all the way down b/c ev devpr will want to go there
Mayor: Ask Ms Boyle to expand on that, that 1.75 needs more
Sop: that's my point, more work to be done
Mayor: right now receiving
important for Ccl to flag for its reporting in the fall
Sop: how can you go if not accept 1.75?
Mayor: --
Sop: where does it go then?
GB: this 1.75 is extremely imp and requires clarification
not looking at as base, as max on those three starred sites; based on amenities
base might be 1.5 and you have to work your way up to 1.75
we know it's hard to reach 1.75 in a smaller site, how do you get parking?

{hm, misleading?  A cclr might be led to believe only three sites can be 1.75 but it is simply not credible that anyone in Planning wd think that.  Knowing a property has to be a certain size to be able to have 1.75 density, how can anyone doubt devprs won't assemble/amalgamate properties to qualify?
Besides, 1.75 sounds nice but also misleading to say that's the maximum when it's been made clear the plan has a bonus of .5 for commercial and another .5 for rental.
2.75 then is the max?
Wrong again!  Some think with more public amenities and Cmnty Benefits, they can get even more.
Six and eight storeys have been mentioned.
Beware the PR promo!}

Cclr Sop's remark imp; he's not accepting 1.75 that ev is entitled to
Mayor: and that's what it says
GB: yes that's what it says
Sop: LEED already required and parking reqmts met
had a traffic study done that said not too bad the way it is but we want to make street ends easier to go through, maybe crossing in middle of the block
really know from Bunt report; but how do we know for day to day shoppers?
traffic report and traffic study more important to me; those requirements
who goes underground?
how many ppl?  balance???
other cclrs, I'm not prepared to accept on basis of 1.75
Mayor: maximum
SJN: ambiguity involved
requirement to provide illustrations
two from strata who spoke were xxxx
we can provide illustrations, provide options, conclusions, provide something may or may not what cmte wants; enough in Sept to proceed
JC: not going to be dealing with the abstracts and attended week and a half ago at Chamber info mtg
discussion around table, problems putting parking underground
entire N side of 1400 Bellevue has underground parking
city xxx ...  Walker bldg xxx [has parking?] and
quite surprised confusion about ability putting parking underground, in fact we do have a prob in Amb with staff, as you know in [our block???]; we turned it around and all of our staff park below grade so don't have to keep running around moving cars
what's happening now, their staff are parking on street, at bank, come out at coffee, lunch, coffee and move [their cars], four diff spaces all day long
underground parking expensive as it may be
[as for] biz on lanes......  don't now if I'd want delivery parking blocking my door
Mr Walker has been consulted, as well he shd, but some other signif prop owners who have not been talked about as to their thoughts, in his words last week, he had been talked to a couple of times -- surprised they weren't talked to will give names later
we heard tonight from representatives from Bellevue Landing and same to bldg that backs/fronts onto 14th and Marine wrt this so-called town square
I've been sitting here for eight years and heard no conversation specifically of designating that area as town square where festivities wd be held on a regular routine basis, closing the street on a reg routine basis, I know a bit wider and leads to FBG and know 20 years ago as gateway to that festival area but at no time, but the market -- we voted to move it and put it elsewhere
possibility to move it to cmnty ctr
never contemplated holding festivals or anything close to that on that street
important we allay those fears, I know they're laying awake at night fearing it going to happen
VV: was interested in remarks by ADRA about the composition of the WG
interesting we have a group expert in xxx and one the resident... rather a group of experts having [mtg?]
I wd have it the other way around residents as bulk listening to experts

{how novel!  someone who actually thinks residents shd be central and avail themselves of expertise rather than residents being told by experts and developers what's good for them.}

not comfortable staff taking experts and then
didn't work well, working in camera on occasions
mtg with Ccl impressed with intention to be helpful to us
it's the structure we set up, not critique of indiv input
along lines of Cclr Sop, think a lot we cd do wd get support of public
simple; taking bldgs from two floors, three to four to outright five floors, haven't met one who'd like that on the south side; affects sun, no enthusiasm at all; look at the little things
sidewalks shd be cleaner and power washed twice a year, we can do that, not controversial
parking can be improved, better access; we can implement parking proposals without changing number of floors
on long blocks midblock passageways, again can be done; lane devt too
more trees, that can go ahead and improve attractiveness
interesting details re design for street lamps, benches, awnings -- we can have incentives to do that again without increasing the heights of bldgs
instead of having recommendations to staff as a whole not in support but any of those that don't involve ht of bldgs
staff not just report but cd implement those
starting point made comparison with Edgemont, Dunbar, Kerrisdale, and [4th?]
that's where came from, ht both sides so sense of enclosure
looked at houses, 2km radius, 400m radius in Amb comparison of income -- doesn't give same b/c income half that of Dunbar
don't think we need to do this, don't think it's a connection we can make
the extra two floors wd be strata title condos
retail on ground floor, nothing preventing owner living above
mistake splitting; condo owners not same interests as biz owners
need to give priority to commerce on that street and don't need to add sep tenancy
ev time we add residences we add costs to the cmnty; EvDr 300, huge implications
don't have DCCs to reflect that
ev single one of those residences same costs on cmnty as ea on ED has
don't think we've properly developed a formula for traffic congestion, infrastructure, fire, police; sort of overloaded as we are; adding onto overloaded system
as Sop; not prepared to take these rec and have staff work on them at this point
MS: WG's done good work; Amb desp needs to be revitalized
some of the suggestions, more ofc space, smaller rental units, boutique hotel, vibrant restaurant and stores, need for diff arch styles, shapes; good suggestions but there are questions
wd support for staff report; what's public input going to look like?
only concern wrt increased density we really have to have public benefit/amenity in place -- before we're going to rezone something
corner of 14th and Marine, probably zoned?
SJN: Esso? zoned as a service stn
MS: I can assure you the land owner doesn't even need the money; just grind customers
four storeys -- residential above -- huge windfall for landowner, I think signif portion shd find its way into public domain and have policy clearly laid out
rather than say .....
can't...; makes no sense to me; think we have to have that public amenity policy in place
rather than base
support staff report and public input, hope between now and Sept have this missing loophole closed
if we're going to rezone land shd hv public benefit
RD: agree with Ccl Smith; back to Planning and have them refine
wish there had been [ratepayer?] representatives on it but cmte has worked hard
don't see this as radical, cd have been worse; 1.75 built on large lots
IGA, attractive; functional; residential and commercial; some of the nicest bldgs in Amb are three storeys; 13th and Bellevue, attractive
don't see any danger of 1.75 on larger lots
don't see question of prezoning whole area; setting up guidelines of what cd happen
owners get together and cd apply, guidelines what they can do
right now don't know so don't...
stay as it is but reasonable to have new bldgs there; three sites cd go to 2.5 but only three and that's clear
{sorry, no, it isn't}
these issues have got to be discussed; at least proposers wd know what rules of game are
plenty of room for public input; next fall talk some more about it; give it to Planning and more work in fall
Mayor: thank cmte
serious challenge faced for decades
don't think we can have blind faith, given us what we have now; character and human scale
here talking tonight; go forward with intent; grappling with what do we intend
wd be a mistake to preclude discussion with broader cmnty

{glad to hear so, Madam Mayor}

thank you to WG; thank you for talking about "incentiving"
only three sites that cd go above four storeys
sustainable cmnty devt is
view residents as experts in their cmnty; don't be afraid to use [?]
foster common experiences
one large village square might be alienating, and five small better
ev benefit small local biz thrive; build self-reliant; increase cmnty participation
[our ofc] 1846 MDr ofc down in Ambleside

{Ears pricked up.  When were we told DWV was leasing an office in Ambleside?  Can't recall that coming to a Ccl mtg for a decision.  Nor the cost.  Not to F&A cmte AFAIK.  When will they tell us?}

supporting and bldg infrastructure
we need to have courage, stick together, and shd begin; need assurance not wholesale change
ccl after ccl, .....  with return to Ccl  key issues
but staff not's going to want to write a report detached from Ccl
stated goal of ev mbr of Ccl at last election; want to stick with the cmnty and get this right
JF: respond to some of the concerns
the maj of bldgs we see built under existing zoning
part of prob, and reason, we took this on; want to see redevt and revit; bizes are leaving; turn around pattern of failure
some successes, will tell you how diff
if present zoning working [no need?] change
the Hollyburn bldg, finally succeeded, long and drawn out costly to devpr, divisive to the cmnty, misunderstood, not conducive

{er, um, yes building attractive however, and this is besides views being blocked, there were other causes for divisiveness.  The devpr (who happens to be on the Amb WG) when asked if the property was for sale, said no, so a resident brought in an ad proving it was for sale -- of course worth a lot more money if/when upzoned.  He also claimed it was for a medical building, calling in the Hollyburn Medical Building (who cd be against a medical facility???) when in fact only about 10% is for medical purposes and the rest condos.  This may be why a speaker or two looks askance at this WG's recommendations given the motivation and what the actual increase will really be.}

so most of the devprs do nothing, brings in rent

{of course, they're shrewdly/wisely waiting.  Why renovate when you can demolish and build bigger, more profit?
There's the difficult nut to crack.  It needs revitalization, everyone agrees, but what kind?
That's why it needs more resident input rather than owner input -- no doubt about their desires.}

xxxx ... if working wdn't be [like this? left?]
prop owners looking for some predictability, won't have to go through whole lengthy processes

{naturally;  it's cheaper!
And if Ccl does the upzoning, no cost or consultation on that, so really saves a lot of time and money.}

no other; if want to sell it
lots of ppl like to park underground; surely no one's going to pay ....
undergrd parking is the future, also the past
doesn't look good on site
if concerned about undergrd parking you park on street; if you're worried, I'll hold your hand
Sop (not rising to the bait): you carry on
JF: ... bizs in lane can do so at reduced rental
cd take place on Clyde, perfect for small scale, cobbler, lawnmower repair shop
where you need to go to get appliances fixed, not on more exp streets
certainly all our mtgs are open

{this is obviously for the TV audience and not believable by anyone who knows what's happened.
When someone pointed out her/WG's intentions for closed mtgs, it took (much appreciated showing some commitment to openness) the Mayor's telephone call to change it to open.  And the June 13 mtg she alluded to still remains a mystery.
If you go to the Amb WG webpage, you'll find no record of mtgs at all before March 29,  only two mtgs with agendas, and no notes after June 5.}

didn't approach owners one by one; wasn't aware one not talked to, we'd be happy to
no recomm that any [streets] be closed for a town square
do support..... on special occasions but wd maintain existing at other times
one or two spots for drop off on 14 th St and 17th St
17th St was originally designed as a festival street, by John Lawson and no reason not to use....
in terms of mbrship, only one typical resident? every mbr was a resident

{but not every mbr a resident of Ambleside.   Don't think even half live in Ambleside, b/c some of the Amb biz owners don't live in Amb but of course want improvements to the commercial areas.  Guess the question is how much is more convenient and desirable for the nearby residents and how much will have a detrimental effect on their quality of life -- congestion, lack of parking or parking in front of their homes, noise, loss of views.  It's this balance that has to be worked out -- more cmnty input wd help.  One cannot expect a resident who owns property that might be significantly upzoned as a result of the WG's recommendations to view those recommendations in the same way as a resident without business holdings -- for Jeanie to imply otherwise is simply an insult to our intelligence.}

most v close to Amb

{obviously counting on no one checking on whether or not this is true, and great for a TV statement.  Only three or four on the cmte do.}

and it speaks more to... as if a resident cdn't have typical, cdn't be expert
improving parking -- yes we all
frankly I'd rather do it with DCCs rather than increasing taxes
residences not being compatible, ensure from good design that they be compatible; ppl looking to live in heart of cmnty
agree with Cclr Smith, ev referred to CB policy
Planning Dept refining these, they will; but took over two years to come forth with these rec and it was our job to support, amend, change; in large part we have supported them with one signif diff
WG is v anxious things proceed as quickly as possible, one wants to see change before she dies
waiting a long time; a long-term prob
nothing will change unless we provide some incentive to biz and this cmnty
turn around the biz in Amb and allow us to shop in our own cmnty

{We all want that; not the debate.  Nor is when.  It's how much and what kind.}

Sop: nice speech
sincerely feel you folks got together and did ...
I'm sure any one of the four site owners cd come with a design on South; or fourth
what is stated by the cmte -- outright three storeys and four storeys conditional with amenities
no objection if on N side of the street but we have many little stores that won't meet this
but if the acq of three storeys outright... back to ht, we're not talking about 8ft floors
we're talking more like 50 to 60ft up, might be merit but can't see in baseline
Walker bldg, nice bldg 1.42, Hollyburn Mews, 1.65 ..... beautiful why say higher with amenities?
don't know how many amenities cd be provided?
sure three with stars; going to have to go through with own zoning
then whole public process, and that wd be fine with me
agree with you Cclr F and team -- not to go to staff, now to public three storeys and what process
Mayor: and we can design a process
VV: interested in Cclr F's remarks that rents too high
the point I was making, plenty we can do without
commercial zone, good nbr bylaw, fact it's old doesn't mean not attractive; many places in world old and attractive
matter of rent, oddly enough, those retail tenants paying triple net -- their rent wd go up and without rezoning of the prop
doesn't look like a solution for the tenant, maybe for the owner re capital gain
don't zone every 20 years, why rezone when props run down
had an interesting talk by Dir of Planning -- ppl were paying too much for their props
why wd they keep doing that? they're betting on a dead certainty Ccl will give them an upzoning
maybe we're part of the problem than the soln
we don't have the habit we upzone if rundown and bylaw if upkept; don't see answer to that here
JC: wrt retail rents; I have a passing knowledge
I'm in one of the most recent bldgs in Amb 14yrs old only two after that
the rents we pay are roughly half what paid in Park Royal N and S, and less than half of Pk Royal Village
probs going on generally a fallacy; when you drill down, it's usually mgmt style, lack of financing, pocket depth; rental a mere function of sales
Mayor: who are we rewarding here? we are rewarding ourselves
my experience, Edgemont Village, 32 Books, moved in; outstripped ..... in six months
loyal customers; ev knows we're missing that
feeling is diff going through Amb than through Dund
CAO: at some point when Ccl feels explored enough
RD: earlier on mentioned Rodgers Crk someone said 2008 acres, it's 208
entire undevpd area in Upper Levels?
SJN: about 1500 acres
RD: not huge, Rodgers Crk probably 40% devpd and 60% will stay green
true we have some nice bldgs in Amb but not enough; Dund is a good example of revitalization; need more of bldgs like Delany's
haven't seen much change in Amb: Hollyburn Medical Ctr painful
seems we have guidelines to keep character, doesn't foresee radical changes; those three starred lots, a lot of discussion before those three; not as if change overnight; need to proceed and go ahead
JF: wrt biz failures, those who commented to me on only one point
wanted to make sure thanks to WG, and to Colette Parsons who's recovering well
in agreement we need more public and more Ccl understanding what they do contain and the nuances; nor averse to that nor wd WG be; happy to continue
Mayor: vote on Receipt
CAO: clear WG has crystallized some issues
my suggestion wrt the second
we're not ready for a final report in Sept, we're ready for a public Ccl workshop
and I'd like to incorporate that into motion...
to further explore the issues and options
{Great!  We all look forward to the workshop and suggestions beneficial to both biz and residents.}
4.         Community Dialogue on Neighbourhood Character and Housing
RECOMMENDED: report from the Sr. Community Planner, dated June 27, 2007 be received.
JC: I left room and let WG choose its own Chair; Stephen Mikicich [staff] was astonished
Christine Banham: best group I've ever been on
not to come up with our own ideas for WV; we see our job as providing the process to elicit those ideas and concerns from the residents of WV; wanting to make sure developing a framework; been focusing on how are we going to do it
steer those without biasing them
had presentations from ppl around here, SJN on OCP, the one prior to this -- easy to get into a reactionary mode; discussion quite easily can be framed by ppl's fears
want to give vocabulary; highly cognizant don't want to impose our own views
Stephen has done a wonderful powerpoint; you won't have to stay here v long, will step in
Stephen Mikicich: will provide an overview; at our first few mtgs, time spent defining role of this WG and the seriousness; Housing Choice and Affordability identified in OCP Review process; gain better ......; in Jan 2005, Ccl approved Phase One of the Housing Dialogue
WV Facts and Stats -- av on DWV website

{but at next mtg (the following night), many complaints wasn't there or cdn't find it; hope they clear that up soon.}

Mobility Report nearing completion; Leanne working on that; been working on a few other things
Heritage Strategic Plan recognizes distinct nbrhds; Incentive tools that cd be used; Clovelly-Caulfeild to design with nature; raise to District-wide level; hear from public over the counter is change in nbrhds and limited opps for seniors; talking about cmnty's future needs; working with site's natural features
CB: The Process:
1 - Beginning the Dialogue - June Nov 2007 - what it looks like and feels like
want to get ppl to talk about; housing the might need or want
devp awareness of those needs for cmnty as a whole, not just personal level
great deal of experience in Group; hot topic can become either/or
have to get process right
[SLIDES -- newsletter, cmnty forum, other Ms, etc]
CB: mbrs worked with staff; Cmnty Day staffed by volunteers, residents more forthcoming -- ifjust staff or cclrs oh it's just, but ppl talking to ppl really gets them talking
interactive materials, ideas for website and forum; got some hot topics for the forums
hope a great way for ppl to have their say without fear of public speaking
until internet area had to sign and speak, some didn't want to do that or didn't want to wait two hours; think it will be a great way to get unbiased unfiltered; can participate 11 at night or whenever
SM: Information and Ideas -- we have a lot; using webpage to make it available sequentially
Ideas Fair in October -- coming together in a large venue
End of first phase in Nov, will report to Ccl what ppl are talking about
2 - Exploring Ideas & Options
three cmnty workshops in Jan and early Feb; more indepth, re housing needs; summarize wkshop results, findings in March; proposing a cmnty survey following workshops as a way of gauging public opinion, reporting back in May
Recommendations and synopsis in June; throughout process online updates for cmnty
CB: so we will be back here; you can have your say; want to hear what West Vanners want to say; great wealth of ... and expertise; informed information you can shape policy for WV nbrhds
Sop: been waiting for this for a long time; hope you'll be addressing
character of nbrhd, perceived to be a livable, perceived to be a nbrhd; livable, likeable and here b/c want to be there
then a govt agency assesses it and price goes up; another agency wd allow trees to be removed on M prop; another govt agency wd give zoning rights to eliminate a view -- something wrong with that picture
then a nbrhd all happy and a large house dominates and there goes the nbrhd;see it ev day
Mayor: opp to ask questions
Sop: is a question, are you going to?
CB: zoning, treatment of trees; at this point not anticipating giving ....; do want to identify issues
nbrhd fairs and workshops, what is out there, may be as you describe change; but we can't presume to know at start, we're at beginning and going to ask
JF: really looking fwd to reporting of this group; and have some scars from election
going to have a wonderful time
plans to discuss with School board; large land owner, large role to play?
b/c of their clientele they hear a lot of things, in terms of housing, character, housing
CB: one of the items we've already recognized; not just housing: transportation, ancillary services, as well as school
Andy Krawzyck is a principal [in Vancouver]; he's going to contact sch bd; anyone with school age chn will get it out into cmnty; underway already, already made that contact.
Lock Gibbs: lived at 2596 Ottawa for 22 years; really appreciate .... this WG is taking
my concern, some points going to take a year and a half but need here and now
we live in upper Dund, beautiful, second house that was built, 1912, we rebuilt to maintain character of the house; feel deeply about the [nbrhd?]
nbrs knew each other and there was consideration of nbrs -- had to live there and wdn't want to block [others' views]
there's a small number who do that and the large properties build two storeys at $2-3M
prob is the dvprs looking at $$$
build as far back as forward, as close to sides;completely blocking view; building to max
talk to ppl in other areas; losing skyline views
one thing came to our attn, a devpr across the street; asked permission to cut down one tree
but the dvpr next to us, all required to do is stay within bdlg envelope
is there provision to consult with nbrs on either side at leasts before bldg application is being put in
issue is urgent IMO; wait for a year and a half seems to me; not wonderful, happening to me right now; wonderful cmte wants to look at what it feels like, to blend
right now we cd institute dialogue right now
Jann Gibbs: my family has lived here for about 51 years; one thing I've always admired, WV is a cmnty
go down to MHall; ppl wanting to live and be part of cmnty
you see some dialogue; whole opp for discussion
what is happening now with us is that our nbrs are coming and talking to us
omigosh I thought there was a rule; I didn't think wd happen in WV...
hear there's an Upper Dund group
lots saying love where I live now getting worried, it's changing; fast, really, really fast
love work cmte has done well thought out
a year and a half from now Dund will not be Dund; on our street alone, five in past year, three going up right now; sense of Dund is being lost
want to know process you go through to take action; sounds like things have been on table for a long time
controversy, needing to appease many groups, things take time; what can Dund do to speed up that process; what wd you recommend to speed up that process
frankly in a year things will be v v different; how do you get together, what's timeframe
at what point do you say we've heard enough, let's take action
Mayor: Ccl will have heard from .......
in Clovelly; comment on rezoning bylaw; this ccl trying to be proactive
SJN: intend to embark on this this fall
running parallel to this, quicker than character b/c diff perspective
what shd be mentioned, in terms of the zoning bylaw itself is supposed to be the same for ea prop
can't be discretionary; can't say allowed second storey unless affects nbr
can say if you flip your house wd be better but haven't ability to do that
Can't tell four doors down if nbr will be affected till see plans; we'll be struggling with
work will begin this fall
Mayor: how long will it take?
SJN: probably in phases and begin with proposals this fall and Ccl act on them in new year
Mayor: be surprised that some devprs have approached us...
range of ppl interested
no question a priority; adding another 18mos, staff challenged with numerous initiatives
will look to staff, draw process out
in NV Mr Stuart was there when I was, forced them to inform the nine nbrs before DP
{I was most intrigued with this, see PQP.}
JC: ... not reporting back this fall; reluctantly looking at May or June next year
5.         Sentinel School - 1250 Chartwell Drive, Temporary Portable Classrooms
            1.         The report dated July 09, 2007 from the Manager of Permits and Inspections re School District #45, portable classrooms at Sentinel School be received.
            2.         The Manager of Permits and Inspections be authorized to issue building permits for these portable classrooms as illustrated in Appendix "A".
MS: shd ask for clarification about these 105 new registrations all stated to be within catchment area.  If hordes of ppl moving in, shd know about it and start planning for it
if portable for out-of-District students, I remain opposed to that
we're building portable in WV, and NV having trouble keeping their schools open; shd ask if in fact all within the catchment area
SJN: we asked principal and they said with catchment area
{ah, but depends on definition}
we asked if parking issues, said no
MS: when we had our mtg with the sch bd the superintendent said there was no catchment area, students cd move as long as space available and cd move within schools and North Shore
SJN: suspect that's their interpretation, ie not foreign students

{see what a difference the definition makes???  what about definition of space available?  does it mean space is available by putting portables on all the school grounds?}

based on ability of schools to provide education
ask for permission; we can ask for information but if they're providing the information, they are entitled
Sop: Cclr Smith makes a good point
school recently, major upset, 108 students -- asking again next year? how much limitation
where are these chn coming from?  not that I have a prob with that but how big is it going to grow?
if portable for their students, how come cdn't find space for daycare???
VV: not as familiar with school system as Mr Smith
we do have 1000 who don't live here, live in NV or Vanc
we're poaching students from NV wch is why our schools are full and they're having trouble
don't think...  don't know why not ... in portables ... having NV repatriated
not in favour of expanding system if [portables???]; do less poaching
in favour of getting more information of what's going on here; we shd be tougher negotiators
wanted portables for daycares, so if asked for portables not sure can't make it conditional re daycare
JF: have been portables for many years; maybe part of ebb and flow
SchBd is charged with deciding who, prov govt decides re boundaries open or closed
sure within our purview look out
not going to have visible impact, no parking (fewer driving); our elected sch bd is who we shd be turning to; this report enough for me to pass this
Mayor: grey area, in favour of expediting, but our
SJN: Sch Bd provides education and can WV go against legis?
sch hts, prop lines -- we'd have some say
cd probably ask them to demonstrate cannot provide; cannot xxxx
at some point in time, they have the right to.
CAO: the issue wd be...  did anticipate Ccl's asking... if discretionary education
if Ccl wanted info on trends, within Dist, foreign, NV, cd provide this next week, know SdhBd anxious
VV JC MS opposed
JF: have mtg with Sch Bd; put that on the agenda; why from other Districts
CAO: motion to staff to....subsequent joint mtg
MS: v important that ev understands we are involved in this
JF: and date to?  that's why I served there for eight years; but when you bring 1000 huge impact -- traffic, being driven in
found out with Cedardale, most parents' location of choice is on sch site
if going to evict all these progs from sch sites, impact, have to be upfront and deal with issue
JF: that's why called for a mtg
6.         West Vancouver Community Arts Council Service Agreement and Licence to Occupy
RECOMMENDED: THAT the Fee for Service Agreement and the Licence to Occupy with the West Vancouver Community Arts Council for 2007 be renewed under the terms and conditions set out in the agreement attached.
KP: operating under for some time; relative to facilities study; for next year
CAC has been doing a better and better job and we see them as excellent partners providing service at the Silk Purse, well used and attended
JF: agree, anticipate an even stronger role; attend one of the musical sessions there, joyous, particularly on a sunny day
new piano; Cheryl Karchut does a great job
Sop: interesting group; we provide $25K, also pay heat, water, fuel, etc wonder why not in service fee
KP: don't understand
Sop: we do ev for the bldg, and pay for telephone
KP: way done initially
Sop: see Cclr Smith's ears twitch; looking at ways to [pay cost?]
grown beautifully; when get into large numbers, when spread their wings
money from taxpayer, time to stop?
KP: don't think they'd come to you and ask stop; annual evaluation was asked but now clear part of the cultural; part of whole budget; not suggesting we back off; fill a v important niche, chamber music, certainly money well spent for the arts
JF: by having cmnty to provide upkeep allows them to apply to other bodies for grants
7.         Community Centre Quarterly Update - Volume IV, July 11, 2007
RECOMMENDED: THAT the report dated July 12, 2007 from the Deputy Director, Parks and Community Services re Community Centre Quarterly Update be received for information.
KP: Josie is riding horses in southern Alberta not been thrown, getting eight emails a day wondering what's happening here
project moving along well; a bit off time but on budget at this point and no reason to think that won't continue but still some eight or nine months away from completion
nothing unusual
unusual predictable in last little while, around access -- been working on connection, atrium, had to eliminate entrance to Aq Ctr; will be cutting off passageway; looked for ways to avoid that but cdn't; Srs' ctr, you'll have to walk further than before
some parking solutions down the road, shuttle buses rather than having them driven there
if you go to Aq Ctr today you'll see two new exits/entrances
issues around parking; front lawn eliminated as a parking spot, will be replaced on a temporary basis on Wetmore site
MS: not sure where to start
in the interests of consistency went back through the last few reports; folly to say alarm bells not going off
project been extended by two months and used up all contingency except for, down to $1M
last fall said 60 parking spots short, why haven't seen study and why not leave that parking open see how it goes
talk about LEED, drought resistant ....; not Arizona, don't know why
parking same in last three summaries
finalizing cafe and youth Band -- lift that paragraph out
when are we going to start crystallizing those arrangements?
Don't know many construction projects when going two months past completion not signif extra costs
eight months, [contingency funds] down to $1M...
if means not painted inside, I'm prepared to live with that; not a dime more; final question, asked 20 times -- how are we going to pay?
$14M for landsales, Endowment Fund -- when?
how are we going to retire the bills that are going to come in as project is completed?
the alarm bells shd be going off, [decision?] has to be made; msg to staff, no suggestion we're going to spend any
concerns me 80% of contingency gone and eight months to go
CAO: in some cases we're reallocated... 90% done; v comfortable on budget; wrt parking, may have shortage; depends on usage

{At every Open House I asked about parking.  The answer was always 100 more.  It was virtually impossible to get a number.  I was on the Civic Site Adv Group and it said the need was for 464 parking spots.  Have any of you out there got a number yet for what's going to be provided?  It had to change b/c cdn't put as much underground as intended, but what's the number???}

rather than just providing parking; in fall, report in fall
not concerned for need to provide any more permanent parking spots until we see ####
wrt funding, we've made it clear that $5.9M through land sales or the Endowment Fund threshold will have to be reduced; identified since project started, not changed
do have to make that decision next year
Sop: may I ask Mr Davis a question
Basil Davis, Project Mgr:
CAO: he can tell us why not
BD: we lost time about two quarters ago almost entirely b/c of weather
technical problems, got over surface and subsurface probs
trying to resolve least inconvenience to public
if leave to last moment wd clutter up front of the bldg
we have to get into that front lawn, terracing, etc,...
have to do it in the dry period; if in Feb, wd be damaging with pipes, heavy trucks coming in
the point re actual budget, when I did the last quarterly report, not in formula with guess
now later, some of these contingencies likely to end up; feel we can pull back to where we were before; v conservative approach
actual project in good shape, lost maybe a week since last qtr and chance of catching it up
wrt quality, ev main contract been a  fight, been a lot of substitution
panels down; if done by fixed sum we'd have really been unhappy
we had to take $5M out and if gone to end, ...
made 20 substitutions from original design
the way the present market is, can't say what's going to happen with trades, av, labour and what they feel like charging you; affecting everybody, just go down to convention ctr
a lot of unknown contingencies
Mayor: return, be more flexible with deadline ...
BD: ...cd have fee structure
2 and 3/4% whatever element at that time; trying to minimalize those two components
rather than rush it, we placed 90%, the only major one left is flooring
7 or 8%, small items washrooms; think we've broken the back of the mtg
JC: move mtg extended to end of 9
Mayor: 9 and end of QP
{Thank you, Madam Mayor.  Some had said they might speak at PQP.}
MS: do we need PQ?
{OOOO!  Cclr Smith.  Why wd you not want to hear residents who may have stayed waiting to speak?  Rather unsettling.  Good thing Mayor insisted on leaving PQP and the other cclrs did not support his reluctance to have Public Questions and Comments.  Last time it was cancelled while the Mayor was away, I think she stated that that wd not be done again.}

CAO: Item 8 re need for sp mtg
JF: will be v happy with the exception of one thing ...[pottery studio]; need some public discussion b/c been receiving letters
[potters rather go to] main [ctr] rather than travelling to Gleneagles; what wd cost be?
BD: in original budgeting
connection $1.4M to Srs; predicated trades on main bldg; none include going through to xxx
they were asking us to make  commitment up front, not later; problem
became part of $5M trying to get out; now found out more for Srs, bigger envelope; wdn't want to close down; so becomes bigger project
[cost wd be] $1.7 to 1.8M then have to add onto it envelope $$
JF: unlikely to proceed
BD: disastrous to do a pullback wdn't have got dollar for dollar
JF: then if Ccl reverses
not going to happen; three-dimensional studio, important to make
CAO: we no longer have sufficient discretionary funds to move ahead
if we do have $1M, staff rec wd be to preparing the envelope
JF: unfortunate, subsequent ccl
Mayor: signif budget, Ccl wd hv to discuss
8.         Special Regular Council Meeting -- Wednesday, July 25, 2007 at 9am
don't need, so cancelled
9.  Bylaw Notice Enforcement Bylaw No. 4368, 2004, Amendment Bylaw No. 4501, 2007 for adoption
SSch: back to Item 7 mover and seconder
Day/Sop: moved/seconded
SSch: can we go back to Item 7 for mover and seconder?
Sop: wasn't moved
Mayor:  I apologize.  Consent Agenda.
10.       Correspondence List [Receipt carries; Mayor says if want to comment, can next week]
11. REPORTS FROM MAYOR/COUNCILLORS [Mayor also says can do so next week]

Mayor: see you wanted to comment on Item No 3 but I received it after we had already begun.
Carolanne Reynolds: That's fine.  Sorry about that...sorry for missing that.  I do apologize to Cclr Smith, cuz if I'd commented then I wdn't be here now keeping you a bit longer.
Anyway, I want to thank you for the suggestion that was made that the Amb recommendations wd come in the fall and I wd like to ask for a few more things to make sure be made public b/c we want to speed this along.
Some information that wd be helpful to have before that, so that in Sept we won't be asking for that information.  Among that is the information about the present FAR in that area.
if you recall with Ev Dr, although allowed to be .35 was .17, and so that was what ppl were taking into consideration when going to .75, so we wd like to know.
Some ppl were saying that the max is going to be 1.75, in fact the max according to that recommendation is 2.75, so I think that needs to be--
we need to know how much [of a difference] this is.  I don't think we're afraid of change, I think we want to feel we have some direction and input into the change and how much that change will be and [if/how] overwhelming.
Also, they keep talking about affordability of rental.  This is a big debate in this cmnty.  I have yet to find some devpr who is going to have rental accommodation that is not market value.  They've even firmly said-- when it came to Hollyburn Medical Bldg,

{~90% condos despite name; that was the description given by Mr Chard when applying for increased density}

and he was asked wd it be affordable, he was honest and said it wd be market.  So I think affordability shd be defined b/c otherwise it means the M is subsidizing.  If the M wants to subsidize land for rental then that's one thing, but I think we shd know when that's going to be.
So, really glad about their being more time for public input b/c there were some v good questions asked by Cclr Day about 'what is this vision', 'what is the vision', b/c Cclr F said they developed the vision after the last WG mtg.  That's when I asked last week.  And they refined the vision and that was out of public view, so we didn't seen that debate.  It was done through email according to Cclr F.  They didn't have another mtg.  They did it through email.  It wd be v interesting.  Ppl haven't seen the final version/vision.
Mayor: I think Cclr F was referring to the introductory statement Dolly Cartwright made this evening.
CR: [Cclr F's] words were that they were/she was/ 'working on developing the vision', so that's--
so that's good; if this is going to be out [for public input], I'm really happy it's going to come back.
So, the cmte recommendations are going to be out, perhaps cd be put in Tidings and on the website so ppl can look at them over the summer.
The question later that Mr Gibbs asked, and you answered about nine nbrs--  It's happening in Upper Dundarave too and there are houses going in that are completely eclipsing other ppl, so I sympathize.  Some of the nbrs have asked questions, and what has come back is that many of the things that these ppl are doing as the resident mentioned, they're building to the max b/c they're speculators, not ppl who are going to live there.  They are building within the bylaw, so no requirement to contact the nbrs so that in NV when you say they had to contact nine nbrs -- were you able to do that or ask for that even if staying within the bylaw?
Mayor: we put a moratorium on all bldg permits.  It was v extreme.
CR: Oh, my heavens!
Mayor: and that was in direct response to a HUGE cmnty outpouring in the Capilano Highlands area.
CR: okay, so if we have a HUGE--
Mayor: I don't think we can get into this now.
CR: no, no
Mayor: but I think--
CR: just wanted to understand that, and how it was done b/c that is happening and it is a concern in Upper Dundarave.
Mayor: yup, any further comments?
CR: tyvm

===  CCL AGENDAS July 23rd ===
ZONING BYLAW NO. 2200, 1968, AMENDMENT BYLAW NO. 4517, 2007 (re  Collingwood School - Wentworth Campus)
...  Then the PH/Public Mtg will be closed or if Ccl wishes a staff report, it will be reconvened at a given date.  If so three readings are scheduled in the regular ccl mtg that follows (Item 5); adoption then wd hv to be Wednesday probably.
{Below the agendas are the DWV adopted PH minutes preceded by my transcript so you can get more of an idea of what ppl's concerns were at the last PH mtg.}
===  REGULAR COUNCIL AGENDA  ======= [after end of PH/public input part]
2.  ADOPTION OF MINUTES -- Adoption of July 09, 2007 Regular Council Minutes
3.         B. Robinson, Canadian Freestyle Ski Association, regarding an Overview of the Freestyle FIS World Cup Skiing Competition at Cypress Mountain February 09/10, 2008 for receipt
4.         2008 Freestyle World Cup Opportunities for West Vancouver
            1.         The District of West Vancouver work in partnership with the Canadian Freestyle Ski Association around hosting the 2008 Freestyle World Cup at Cypress Mountain in February 2008;
            2.         Staff develop a plan and infrastructure for using the 2008 Freestyle World Cup to develop and expand our volunteer capacity, to build upon existing arts and culture programs and events, and to develop youth opportunities, sponsorships and partnerships; and
            3.         The details of the plan for West Vancouver's role in the Freestyle World Cup event be forwarded to Council for consideration and approval in the 2008 budget.
5.         Zoning Bylaw No. 2200, 1968 Amendment Bylaw No. 4517, 2007 (File:  1610?204517)
            If the reconvened Public Hearing/Public Meeting regarding Zoning Bylaw No. 2200, 1968, Amendment Bylaw No. 4517, 2007 and Development Permit Application 06?034 for Collingwood School (Wentworth Campus) held on July 23, 2007 has closed, the following may be considered by Council:
RECOMMENDED for second and third readings
6.         Evelyn Drive Master Plan Approval (File:  1010?20?06?050)
RECOMMENDED: THAT The proposed Master Plan for Evelyn Drive be approved, subject to insertion of the revised sustainability section, illustrative site plans, and statistics contained in Appendix A, and design conditions detailed in Appendix C to the report from the Manager of Community Planning dated July 13, 2007.
7.         Animal Control Bylaw 4208, 2000 Amendment Bylaw No. 4520, 2007 - Horseshoe Bay Park Dog Control Designation for receipt, then to third reading.
8.         Sublease Modification - Sewell's Limited for receipt.
9.         Revised Official Community Plan Amendment, Rezoning and Development Permit Application 07-015 (2388 and 2396 Marine Drive)
RECOMMENDED: THAT Staff complete a review of revised Development Application No. 07?015 after holding a Neighbourhood Consultation Meeting to solicit community comment on issues associated with the proposed Official Community Plan and Zoning Amendment for 2388 and 2396 Marine Drive.
10.       Development Permit Application 06?015 for a Two Lot Subdivision at 4249 Rockbank Place
RECOMMENDED: THAT the report dated July 12, 2007 from the Manager, Community Planning regarding Development Permit (Difficult Terrain) Application 06-015 which would provide for a two lot subdivision at 4249 Rockbank Place be received for consideration on Monday September 10, 2007.
11.       Process for Consideration of an Equestrian Centre (File:  1020?01)
            THAT the report dated July 17, 2007 from the Director of Planning, Lands and Permits titled "Process for Consideration of an Equestrian Centre" be received.
12.      Consent Agenda Items - Reports and Correspondence
13.       Development Applications Status List received for information
14.       Development Variance Permit Application 07?019 (4343 Erwin Drive)             RECOMMENDED: THAT the report dated July 10, 2007, be received for consideration on Monday, September 10, 2007.
= Requests for Delegation -- No items presented.
= Action Required
(1)       N. Beissner - Trec International, Inc. and, J. Tupper - Management Services, June 28, 2007, regarding Letter and Petition (=B1 34 Signatures) Flood Damage due to Overflow of Vinson Creek at Kings Avenue - January 2007
Referred to the Director of Engineering and Transportation for consideration and response.
(2)       B. Watt, July 05, 2007, regarding Ambleside Beach Maintenance
Referred to the Director of Parks & Community Services for consideration and response.
(3)       Owners for Belleview Landing, Strata Corporation LMS 974, Undated, 2007, regarding Concerns and Objections to Proposals Contained in the Ambleside Revitalization Plan
Referred to the Director of Planning, Lands & Permits for consideration and response.
(4)       C. Reynolds, Editor - West Van Matters, July 12, 2007, regarding Public Amenity Policy (and Sponsorship/Partnership Policies)
Referred to the Director of Planning, Lands & Permits for consideration and response.
(5)       J.A. Roberts, Program Assistant - Greater Vancouver Regional District Homelessness Secretariat, July 12, 2007, regarding Information on Federal Funding - Homelessness Partnering Initiative
Referred to the Director of Parks & Community Services for consideration and response.
(6)       M. Candido, Coordinator - Ride Share Week, July 13, 2007, regarding Request for Proclamation of Ride Share Week
Referred to Mayor & Council for consideration and response.
(7)       C. Reynolds - West Van Matters, July 12, 2007; and S. Scholes, Municipal Clerk, July 19, 2007, regarding Collingwood/ Wentworth Public Hearing (June 25/July 23) (Referred to the Director of Administrative Services for consideration and response.)
= No Action Required (receipt only)
(8)       Committee and Board Meeting Minutes
(a)       North Shore Advisory Committee on Disability Issues - May 31, 2007
(b)       Design Review Committee - June 07, 2007
(9)       L. Isfeld, Meeting Coordinator - City of Vancouver, July 05, 2007, regarding 2007 Operating Budget - Proposed Process
(10)     I. Chong, Provincial Minister of Community Services and Minister Responsible for Seniors' and Women's Issues, July 09, 2007, regarding Approval of 2007 Infrastructure Planning Grant - UBC Tree Canopy Interception Research Project
(11)     K. Cameron, Chief Executive Officer - Homeowner Protection Office, July 09, 2007, regarding Important Changes to the Homeowner Protection Act
(12)     M. Gabriel, Executive Director - North Shore Crisis Services Society, July 10, 2007, regarding Thank You for the 2007 Community Service Grant
(13)     G. Steeves, President - Federation of Canadian Municipalities, July 11, 2007, regarding New Funding Opportunity for Water and Brownfields Projects
(14)     J. & L. Gibbs, July 12, 2007, regarding Development at 2584 Ottawa Avenue (=B1 11 Names, No Signatures)
= Responses to Correspondence
(15)     B.A. Dozzi, Manager - Roads & Transportation, July 05, 2007, regarding reply to G.F. Strong re 1200 Block Duchess Avenue - Overhead Utilities
(16)     B.A. Dozzi, Manager - Roads & Transportation, July 05, 2007, regarding reply to N.S. Thompson re 15th Street at Mathers Avenue - Traffic Signal Light
= Responses to Questions in Question Period -- No items presented.

=  for Public Correspondence (b/c of comparison of transcript with minutes)
=  for the Public Hearing (for more complete record) July 23
NB:  [...] indicates deletions

2007 July 12

Dear Mayor and Council:

re   Public Hearing/Mtg Minutes re Collingwood/Wentworth Campus Expansion
DRAFT/PARTIAL TRANSCRIPT; what was actually said (A) vs DWV PH MINUTES; what Ccl adopted (B) July 9


For the record, here is a draft transcript of what was said for a more complete report on what was said for Council's consideration at the Public Hearing June 25; attached are the DWV's minutes wch often do not indicate points of agreement and disagreement [...].  Since my notes are typed as people speak, there are some gaps and of course all names are best guesses, presumably correct in the DWV minutes.

If you compare what each speaker said with the official minutes that follow however, you will see the enormous difference and have a more complete picture of what was said in particular for and against, rather than using your imagination or deductions from the rather vague official "spoke relative to".
The minutes do not indicate that one speaker asked several times why a sign regarding development had not been put up earlier according to procedures, or the staff reply that they'd been asked to several  times.
Nowhere as far as I can see can anyone reading the adopted minutes tell the source of neighbours' concerns re enrolment (enrolment is in the minutes several [times] but not clear the relevance).  To wit, if Collingwood at Morven has a permitted enrolment of 600 but has at least 718, the concern for the neighbourhoods is over assurance that the Wentworth campus will stay within the limit on this campus.  That is not conveyed by saying "spoke relative to" enrolment, traffic, etc.
From the minutes you would not know that someone asked if Collingwood says they'll comply with their zoning conditions in 2010 once Wentworth is completed, why Council would not say instead once there's compliance at Morven then Wentworth would be considered, ie why reward non-compliance?
Another issue the public should know is that DWV (presumably staff, and it was said Council was unaware, though some think they are the ones [who] ought to be accountable -- we shall see) signed documents confirming that Collingwood/Morven was in compliance with all DWV bylaws (thus qualifying the school for millions of dollars of provincial grants) when in fact residents had told staff in 2004 or earlier that enrolment (zoning limits it to 600) had exceeded that permitted for some time -- over 700!).
Also, remarks are made about completion in 2014 and 2015 wch is a bit confusing but these are omitted.
A and B follow and then a final comment.

=== A === DRAFT/PARTIAL TRANSCRIPT, what = was actually said:

6.         APPLICANT'S PRESENTATION -- The applicant will be provided an opportunity to make a presentation.
Geri Boyle (Planning staff):  expansion of site to 17.5 acres; changing zoning from sgl-fam to accommodate school and new school Grades 6 to 8, separate bldg, two gymnasiums, cafeteria, field and artificial turf field
traffic; willingness to enter into a Good Nbr Pledge
requires closure and purchase of road from M; clearing
bldg requires variance for ht and for the retaining wall alongside the artificial turf field
the model has gone missing, not this one, but will have an overhead plan.
[Mayor explains conditions for speaking; MClerk lists notices, reports, submissions to date]
Platinum (applicant): My name is Hart Gunjan (sp???), representing Collingwood School.  We did have a model and for some strange reason it did not get here.
Slide of plan of Collingwood Middle School (Wentworth Campus) [points and explains] about 17-acre site; consists of five parcels; b/c of slope, an inground cafeteria; proposing a warm-up field plus an artificial turf field; parking as far away as we can, close to creek
30m setback from top of bank
to alleviate traffic concerns, have created circular interior drive, one-way, two lanes (one for dropoff, one for through); mitigates current traffic problems on Chairlift and Wentworth; created a drive aisle; traffic consultants
dropped 6ft from Wentworth location; lowering field to make sloped site flat, but have to take more out, advantageous to keep as fill on the site (artificial turf field, retaining wall alongside)
ht variance -- 2 inches lower than other school (peak of roof)
green solns, green roof, bioswales in parking lot to control runoff and type of runoff
largest constraint is the slopes, trying to balance cuts and fills; least impact on adjacent lands
Mayor: any questions, mbrs of Ccl?
7.         PUBLIC INPUT
>> Lynn LeFleuve (sp?): map got on Friday wasn't clear dropoff/circulation; not clear one-way
still many concerns, still a problem
everyone has to go round the roundabout, formerly fire lane, doubt ev will conform to that; simpler do what they currently do; wd be ignored b/c watched and almost all dropped off individually, usually in SUVs; many hundreds of chn, more Chairlift impact; and on 26th
just b/c they say they're going to be on buses -- isn't happening
did talk to planner; new internal road not deemed to be safe or not approp for parking
I think nothing more inapprop than parking on Chairlift
if brand new nice flat road, surely you cd put at least one lane of parallel parking -- and have parking on the road; doesn't look as if enough parking; not going to walk chn up; too far so much easier to be on Chairlift
they have a big bldg envelope
we had always hoped that 25th cd be put through some day; told repeatedly it was too steep -- wd be a really nice option
amt school is paying for public roads has not been disclosed yet, wondering what current market value is
while watching last week's ccl mtg, got sinking feeling this seen as soln to Morven; hope more creative solns can be found and not moving those problems to our nbrhd
note in the documentation by 2015 more than 800 students and 100 staff anticipated
nbr says plan looks suspiciously like a highschool; the former first choice of making this the HSchool does not reserve and a switch effected, that's what they were looking for
Mayor: proposal that it will become a Middle School
Ans: worried about the future
[MODEL for proposed school arrives and is set up]
>> Kim Johnson: never spoken before Ccl before so let me know If I go beyond, will try to beat bell
comments wrt Apr 24th, May 28th report
wish to express my appreciation for Jim
good start, but not great, not good enough
TRAFFIC report May 28 says Traffic Mgr has reviewed plans and advises will significantly improve the existing traffic condition -- NO -- another bland comment, nice man, but....
at mtg said all schools have this problem
I followed up by submitting study of three schools in Vancouver to Jim
shd show trauma of kids hit by trucks and cars -- Lynn's v polite but we've all seen near-misses; we need to see one hit, one.  I had to take my child, a crying child to Chn's hospital
just got back from Beijing, jumped up on literature, and there's a WG, for Rodgers Crk, where a guy by the name of Tony McCallum (sp?) of Mulgrave sent a letter where he actually blasted the WG saying, "how cd you possibly put a tunnel for road access if we need more space?"
Now here's a fellow who probably wants to expand his campus and he's biting the hand of the ppl who will feed him.
I want to know why the headmaster of Collingwood who I found out lives in the worst part of road has done nothing, has avoided us -- go for walk
not good enough; get all chn safely on to Wentworth campus
says traffic/road permit has to be approved
on 30th I also wrote to Geri Boyle and Jim Bailey:
- to present a nbrhd policy/plan similar to St George's, York, and Crofton House
- to create the position of a nbrd relations mgr
- to facilitate a nbrhd cmte open to all nbrs and all mbrs of Collingwood
know a lot of families go to Collingwood, great friends of ours, and they don't want to see kids get hit
comprehensive traffic plan; a good-nbr pledge -- fifth strand, four on their website
not just speaking of another 280+, nor influx workers/construction, not senior students travelling to the fields
we're talking about 815 students, 125 faculty, 940 sgl-driver SUVs, plus the extra cars for the senior citizens that will be showing up in 2014
while away, my wife had the solution -- in the footprint
.... to consolidate all of the properties; suggest a ring road at the entrance to the site, near Marr Crk; second entrance and one xxx
similar to Stanley Park Drive; gated, circumnavigates; that park lane only opened up in morning and evening; remainder gated
primary purpose to get traffic on Collingwood prop
safety of chn but cd be a cross-country track for school; family walks, cycling, inline skating, section for street hockey, many seniors in area, cd walk; add into cycling program up to....
Mayor: we can invite you back
KJ: I understand
JC: can you trace on the drawing on the screen?
[He points it out, ring road, connection, explains it, calls it park]

>> Carolanne Reynolds: Editor of West Van Matters, Ste 300, 1497 Marine Drive
Life is rarely simple and this is a complicated issue.
I support the concept of private schools -- there are good and bad private and public schools.  When Collingwood proposed replacing the school for 450 [in Glenmore] with one for 750, naturally the nbrhd was apprehensive.  Cclr Day and I were on Ccl then and the compromise was 600 with parking space requirements as well as provision of a shuttle bus to lessen the impact.
Assurances were given that the conditions included in giving the special upzoning wd be abided by -- besides it was the law.
Now we have assurances -- note I heard no legal requirement or repercussions -- that Collingwood will abide by its commitment, given in 1989, by 2010, three years from now, IF the Wentworth campus is finished.
We have conditions for this application -- how can we be sure all the requirements for Wentworth will be adhered to?
Has Ccl specified enforcement or penalties if conditions broken?
Are they sufficient?
We learned last week that even a fine of $1K or $100K is not a deterrent.  The document required signed by the Ministry confirming compliance released funds of over a million dollars.
While WV operates on enforcing bylaws only 'by complaint', surely this does not apply in the case of signing confirmation of compliance to the provincial govt and behooves the District to verify compliance, ie no reliance on complaint [to sign document, confirming compliance with all Municipal bylaws].
Besides, one resident told me that the fact the enrolment was in excess of 600 was given to staff in 2004 or earlier by letter of complaint to staff. 
So apparently complaint doesn't work either.
While cognizant of some mitigation, it is hardly a compromise to allow the school to be in breach of its conditions of zoning for an additional three years in any case planned all along for Wentworth.
This is v disappointing for me, having supported the school's establishment while on Ccl and spending $3-4K at an initial fundraising auction in support.
No one influences my vote.  I have always acted in what I feel is objective, fair, and an enhancement.  The warning that powerful ppl were involved did not move me; [it was said Glenmore residents wd not be sending their children there -- ] and we see that despicable attitude on the part of some continue as they ignore a nbrhd that they don't live in, and students egg the cars of residents they think have complained.
They shd be offering to mow their lawns for free to make up for the disruption!
The zoning enrolment limitation to 600 has been blatantly ignored -- evidently with little or no fear of consequences -- and little use made of the shuttle buses.
The headmaster and a mbr of the board said they were unaware of the 600 limitation.  When did they find out?
Why did their sense of honour not move them to comply as soon as they found out, or rather the September of the coming year (b/c no one wd want to disrupt the year of education)?
There are spaces in schools in NV, and Gleneagles Cmnty Ctr is available, has space.
Mayor: Cd I ask you to comment on the Wentworth, although I understand they are related?
CR continues: Does it not require a public hearing in effect for Ccl to change a bylaw or zoning provision even for one year, let alone three?
Why not at least decrease by one grade till compliance?
Why give approval to Wentworth when not in compliance for Morven?
Some got the impression that Collingwood was not prepared to decrease if they didn't get approval for Wentworth.  This is unfortunate.
You have said getting Morven to compliance depended on Wentworth.  Why not Wentworth [approval] dependent upon abiding by the law at Morven?
The neighbours were even 'warned' when Wentworth is built the Morven campus wd no longer be a combined school so cd be a high school with no limit, ie cd go to 900, this is not true and is outrageous.  The pressure was unconscionable -- and it's no wonder there's some discontent in the nbrhd.
We all want to be proud of our schools in WV; each one offers something special.  Any pretence of superiority by a body that breaks the law and once caught just plans to continue doing so for the next three years is, to say the least, a disappointment.
What wd happen if when the policeman stopped me for speeding at 100+Kmph, I said I'd slow down when I got to my destination?  Wd he let me continue speeding till I got there?
Please understand my remarks are not meant in any way to diminish the good intentions and efforts of you, Madam Mayor, or of the negotiations facilitated by staff, and the goodwill with improved cooperation and consideration of the residents we have now -- but it shd not have come to this.
Please ensure that the conditions, environmental as well as access/traffic etc, are monitored with compliance as a prerequisite for special zoning and penalties that discourage infractions.  In view of the breaches we've heard lately re the noise bylaw and blasting bylaws, etc, it may be time to review WV's practices thoroughly.
And I remain astonished the District wd sign any provincial legal document confirming compliance, involving millions of dollars, without verifying or being obliged to.  It's incredible.  The lines of responsibility and accountability must be made clear -- if West Van's bylaws are to be taken seriously.
Thank you.

>> Jack Shepherd (sp?): the solution -- cut back!
at Morven, no expansion wd be necessary
I'm representing homes here; real problem with runoff, think it will be life-threatening
look at slope, considerable; two years ago we had to put additional drainage in our back yard and seepage not over wall, coming under
seeps in and still; not going to get better; that retaining wall wd hv to be v high
noise pollution; we didn't build house to have a field built above house
if [that of] any of the ccl mbrs or the mayor -- you wd have concerns
I'm 100% against the project even though my son goes to Collingwood
>> Ron LeTroy: live Chairlift Rd; concerns, when we bought, no designation of this school, looked at zoning of props around it, said RS1 zoning; two-lane road, there's no way of driving around that property from 8 to 9 in morning, and 2 to 3:30 in the afternoon on any given school day; in evenings, Parent-Teacher deals, parking on street any way, every way, on sidewalks
no concerns for anyone else getting in or out of that subdivision
too much traffic for this proposed new school, needs to be relocated need other place
no problem educating chn; must make better; Chairlift and Skilift a disaster; have to go down street and it's like Park Royal just before Christmas
Mayor: don't have anyone else....
>> Dean Mailey: Chelsea Close; lot have been addressed already
these traffic issues are v real; safety issues real
came home 2:30 in afternoon and impossible to drive up Chairlift road and right up to school
how can emergency vehicles possibly get in or out when choked two and a half hours a day
high degree of construction with Taylor Outlook devt in full buildout now
urge you some sort of truck mgmt or policy so at least 50% routed over top of the hill so Chairlift not taking 100% of the truck traffic
Public Relations: when BPP undertook devt at Taylor's Outlook, did ev right, understanding nbrhd, PR rep was knocking on my door Saturday morning wanting to explain devt
Collingwood has never made outreach, made resident relation issues handled v badly; never info mtg so they cd hear our concerns, frustrations b/c of school
>> Sherry Bahri: confirming what my nbr Mr Shepherd said
concerned about sport field behind my house
expect dbl, triple, at 8:30am going to work have to wait at Chairlift road 20, 25 minutes until someone gives me way; 100% against this expansion
>> Peter Joyce: principal with Bunt Assns, for Collingwood
had opp to meet with a number of the nbrs at sev mtgs held in indiv homes and at school itself
we've bn up there and documented the traffic
parking, parents turning around on Chairlift road problematic
we believe we're bringing a fix
problem is that it doesn't have space
only 46 parking spaces on the site and this proposal increases it to 160
on-site queueing -- for 45 cars, and have that number again on Chairlift
parents choosing not to get caught up thinking can avoid by staying off site
school kids directing traffic
more likely to get middle school kids to use bus; think more will be riding by bus
opening of the Chippendale Connector-- over 50% comes from Brit Prop to east
they can then come from there and exit there as well
Traffic mgmt plans for others, our firm did that for York and Crofton; willing to do that for Collingwood
>> Michael Noble (sp?): purchased home at 2536 Marr Crk Court exactly at entrance.  We bought that home overlooking a field with no knowledge of devt.  Asked questions about school about it today.  To find out today will be increased by several hundred students and to find about that many more cars passing by every day -- totally opposite of what we expected
Expansion of school is at expense of ppl in that nbrhd
>> Eileen Fubakdi (sp?): 22 Chairlift Road [that's my property there -- pointing]
Chairlift road narrow and steep, noise comes right up; v unpleasant
is there anyone who wd give fair market value for this prop?
huge devaluation of my prop and all on Chairlift Rd
I have chn and I say they have to be out by half past 7
none of the devprs have offered to buy my prop
if they bought these props [pointing] they cd buy
I wd like to be on record have not seen this plan and shd be sent to all these nbrs.
>> Eleanor Maish (sp?): from Collingwood Sch Bd
wrt parking, this area is where kindergarten parents like to drop off chn and walk them in to school
someone mentioned hi school, at one time we looked into this at one point; was cost prohibitive
Bunt has been employed to do the traffic
want to develop a nbrhd pledge
want to assure ppl here that's Collingwood's commitment
Mayor: helps if you sign
>> Ken Porter: resident in the area for 15 years, seen a lot of changes
four years working on it
still stuck with it; led to believe it wd be done
knowing stories of Morven campus, great difficulties
no mtg with residents, no easing of traffic, same problem as four years ago -- solve problems of four years ago before this
have to solve old problems
learn from history or same failures
>> Rick Malkin: 2295 Chairlift Rd and have for many years.  In fact when we moved there Chairlift Rd was called 26th; seen a lot of growth and changes
I live here [pointing]; and traffic is the big questions
traffic generated by the first, the existing, school
it far exceeded what we anticipated when we gave passing [agreement?] to this
the traffic in front of our place often obstructs our ability to go out on the road; we have a lot of parking and ppl sometimes park in our driveway
our concern is expansion, more schools, things have changed; we used to bicycle to school, three or four miles, now they all need SUVs
given a description how loop will reduce the traffic and I don't see how it will here [pointing]
won't reduce number of cars in that area; if school expanded, number of cars will increase
don't see an answer
well, I do; the answer is that you don't have large schools hurting a cmnty
we're just talking about cars but having tremendous number of children in one area
another problem is drainage: there were four streams across this property that were blocked off and directed into drains
fear for the ppl down here, it will drain down here [pointing]
traffic know answers thoroughly before going ahead and we have not heard answers this evening.
Mayor: using microphone helps TV, ppl at back of room, and
>> Maurice LaFleur: Chelsea Close.  I oppose this devt.
magnitude too great, has to be put in context
Ccl is contemplating developing 200+ acres up above, more traffic; don't understand how BPP can contemplate their billion-dollar enterprise -- down Chairlift
watched TV Ccl mtg last week and pretty disappointed -- pretty well gave approval [for Wentworth so C'wood complies 2010?]
The Planning Dept seems to have developed [special] zoning for C'Wood
skewed; this proposal, seven or eight years after, wd hv been good at that time
C'wood wdn't
skeptical these will be heard, surprised if they wd
back, take a bit of time
>> Connie Letroye (sp?): when we bought knew school was there
where we bought, quiet little cul de sac; no one wd know; we're still building it
get out of it now
ppl come down that road at 80mph, not Kmph, it's now a thoroughfare
come from Chippendale, down Chairlift, a wide large road ppl speed up and down
with expansion of the school at least 150 more cars coming down
have letters from nbrs upset who cdn't come
this circle won't help 21st, might help some of the congestion for a while
will probably turn into a hi school -- when we bought and others, no one had any idea it wd expand; not going to be good for cmnty
a nbr called in and was told foregone conclusion
contractor said we cd come in and complain but the school was going ahead
I'm going to be lobbying for speedbumps on Chairlift
already spoken to Police and nbrs; they're appalled
buying on a quiet cul de sac and now ....
and now Chippendale, Oh my goodness
this is a money-making school, not provincial, why shoved into our cmnty?
usually subdivisions planned around school; not school plunked in
Mayor: looping through who've already spoken
> Kim Johnson: do I ever feel taken for granted
you did traffic for York? Collingwood
ppl, we're pretty docile, quiet
I have a two and a half year old now and can't walk him any more
Bunt's got to do a better job
went to a couple of mtgs, but at Collingwood; this is the first time we can talk about our concerns -- so shd have a nbrhd cmte
...... 2014 then 825 students
this was a great plan for six, seven, years ago
if you can't come up with plan for 825 cars then some construction, you gotta tell 'em no
keep it zoned for residential low density
> Chuck Shepherd (sp?): want to revisit retaining wall above us
with the changing weather patterns, no one knows what to design for really
when you look at that massive wall that's going to go above us, ev one of you have to think that's life-threatening, take that into account pls.
>> Man (representing C'wood's interests): we did a mailout, 350m at request of city
was a public info mtg; did listen to their concerns; largest issue traffic
since 2003 been trying to create a middle school there and not been able to do it
the traffic prob will be there, has been there
plans in last four years, this really does address traffic issue facing today
Audience: no
Mayor: debate will come when Ccl debates
Man: do intend a Gd Nbr Pledge
a Nbrhd Cmte today, start resolving as moving things forward
as done for York and some other private schools
this is a solution for problem that exists there today
>> Roger Wright: live at 2606 Wentworth, I'm headmaster and live here [points] and support
not going to rehash traffic in building this up
echo pledge on behalf of school; establish nbrhd cmte, have some experience with this
had a nbrhd mtg, sparsely attended, perhaps didn't advertise widely enough
want to take that on and talk with our nbrs
make sure we are good nbrs; a nbrhd cmte
JC: you live there, you own that or owned by school?
RW: owned by school
>> Lady: no devt sign up; it was my nbr who told me
called City Hall and spoke to someone named Jim and he said there was a sign there; said we told them a couple of times
well one just went in a couple of days ago
so just how ......
why doesn't the school have to?  we have to when we do
Mayor: Ms Boyle, why not there?
GB: have to check
Lady: just went up; why not rezoning sign [before]?
if they're such good nbrs, look at the landscaping there -- old buddleia, been there for years, is this the best they can do?
First Lady: it doesn't really matter about the traffic plan, circulation is whatever it is; Skilift and Chairlift just cannot handle that amount of traffic
they say 25th can't come through
we had mtgs a couple of years ago, another type of improvement; never a rep from the school, they had facilitators, not from school just ppl who worked for therm
JF: have some questions about the numbers at the school
had proposed a diff bylaw at Morven for numbers down, any listing for this school?
might address some of the concerns
GB: the proposed is a zone specific to it
elementary school, daycare, kindergarten.......
the zone does not include high school, allows up to Grade Eight
JF: number?
GB: not exceed 850
JF: re artificial turf, lights planned?
GB: draft does not include approval for lights; applicant wd hv to come back
Mayor: close or ask for staff report?
VV: wd move we have a further report
hear experts saying traffic saying being provided for but hear what public is saying
if too difficult now, does nothing to solve that problem so I'm not convinced
if debate with experts, whatever
if we can have a report from staff
Mayor: capacity of roads?
JF: I do, about field, retaining wall, runoff
perhaps a diff or better site for the field? or parking lot? distancing it from existing homes
buffering from sound and runoff
Mayor: anything else? adjourning PH to?
VV: understand our last ccl mtg is July 23, is that approp?
GB: Brent? 16th or 23rd to answer those questions?
Brent Dozzi: no prob with traffic, but geotechnical issues
Mayor: read motion as printed at bottom of page, No 8
[VV does so]
...THAT Staff report back to Council regarding the June 25, 2007, Public Hearing and Public Meeting re Zoning Bylaw No. 2200, 1968, Amendment Bylaw No. 4517, 2007 and Development Permit Application No. 06?034 (re:  Collingwood School - Wentworth Campus, West Vancouver); and that the Public Hearing and Public Meeting be adjourned to July 23rd in the Municipal Hall Council Chamber.
July 23rd
SSch: 7pm
MS: think it's a bit vague to say report back
think we shd be more specific
why geotech studies -- when approved assumed approval from engineers
why have staff charging out on non-existent walls
seems to me traffic, egress ramp from highway, shd confine staff report to major concerns wch is traffic
ask Police, same question I asked when I went to Morven, why streets blocked for 40 minutes and no one can get through, where were police?
Mayor: each mbr has right to
CAO: likely the enquiry we'd make was with consultant to see if adequate
don't think a significant task; depends how broad
Mayor: haven't articulated that in motion
enough direction; in a couple of weeks
address issues raised tonight
Mayor: you're invited back July 23


H. Hoonjan (Applicant) presented the application, referred to a site model and described the subject application and its components.
The Mayor called for Public Input. [Pls note in place of Mayor Goldsmith-Jones, this reads Mayor.]
L. Lafleur (2007 Chelsea Close) spoke relative to her concerns regarding traffic, insufficient infrastructure on Chairlift Road, the lack of buses and on-site parking.
K. Johnson (2696 Chelsea Place) spoke relative to his concerns regarding traffic congestion, traffic safety, parking issues, and proposed an alternate ring road to assist in managing traffic.
C. Reynolds (Editor WV Matters, 1497 Marine Drive) spoke relative to the Collingwood School Morven Campus, queried regarding conditions for the proposed expansion at Wentworth, bylaw enforcement and compliance and concerns of the neighbours living around the Morven Campus.
C. Sheppard (2179 Chairlift Place) spoke in opposition to the application and spoke relative to his concerns regarding the number of students at the Morven Campus, run-off issues, slope stability, drainage and seepage under rock walls, and noise pollution.
R. LeTroy (2575 Chairlift Place) spoke relative to his concerns regarding traffic congestion and parking and his opposition to the application
The Mayor noted that there was no one else on the Speakers' List and asked whether there was anyone else who wished to address Council.
D. Mailey (2790 Chelsea Close) spoke relative to his concerns regarding traffic congestion, traffic safety, emergency vehicle access, the high degree of construction in the area, the need for a truck management program, and the relations between Collingwood School and the neighbourhood.
The Mayor asked whether there was anyone else who wished to address Council.
S. Bahri (2185 Chairlift Place) spoke in opposition to the application, supported the comments made by C. Sheppard and spoke relative to her concerns about traffic.
Mayor asked whether there was anyone else who wished to address Council.
P. Joyce (Principal of Bunt and Associates Engineering Limited) explained that his firm was engaged by Collingwood School's traffic management plans.
Mayor asked whether there was anyone else who wished to address Council.
M. Noble (2536 Marr Creek Court) spoke relative to his concerns regarding noise, high student enrolment and traffic congestion and the impact the school's expansion will have on the neighbourhood.
E. Van Wyk (2222 Chairlift Road) spoke relative to her concerns regarding traffic congestion, noise and the devaluation of area properties.
The Mayor asked whether there was anyone else who wished to address Council.
E. Minish (Vice Chair of Collingwood School Board) spoke in support of the application and spoke relative to proposed parking facilities, whether a secondary school would be developed in the future, Collingwood School's commitment to work with the traffic consultants and School's good neighbour pledge.
The Mayor asked whether there was anyone else who wished to address Council.
K. Porter (2616 Chairlift Road) spoke relative to his concerns regarding traffic and commented relative to the relationship between Collingwood School and the neighbourhood.
R. Malkin (2295 Chairlift Road) spoke relative to his concerns regarding traffic, parking drainage and the impact on property values, and commented that there shouldn't be a larger school that will further impact the neighbourhood.
M. LaFleur (2770 Chelsea Close) spoke in opposition to the application and spoke relative to his concerns regarding the size of the proposed expansion and traffic issues, and concerns raised by neighbours.
The Mayor whether there was anyone else who wished to address council.
C. LeTroy (2575 Chairlift Road) spoke relative to her concerns regarding traffic safety, speeding on Chairlift Road, and the approval process for the application.
The Mayor asked whether there was anyone else who wished to address Council for the first time and there was no response.  The Mayor invited members of the public who wished to speak for a second time.
K. Johnson (2696 Chelsea Place) spoke for a second time relative to his concerns regarding traffic and the impact of additional students at the school, Collingwood School's relations with neighbourhood and the need to establish a neighbourhood committee.
The Mayor asked whether there was anyone else who wished to address Council.
C. Sheppard (2179 Chairlift Place) spoke for a second time relative to his concerns regarding drainage, the safety of slopes and the retaining wall that will be above his property.
The Mayor asked whether there was anyone else who wished to address Council.
H. Hoonjan (Applicant) spoke for a second time relative to the public notification, discussions with the neighbourhood and the traffic issues and the plan for a middle school.
The Mayor asked whether there was anyone else who wished to address Council.
R. Wright (Head of Collingwood School, 2606 Wentworth Avenue) spoke relative to Collingwood School's plans to establish a neighbourhood committee, discussions with the neighbourhood and the good neighbour pledge.
C. LeTroy (2575 Chairlift Road) spoke for a second time relative to her concerns regarding notification for development applications and landscaping at the subject property.
The Mayor asked whether there was anyone else who wanted to address Council.
L. Lafleur (2770 Chelsea Close) spoke for a second time relative to her concerns regarding traffic and Collingwood School's communications with the neighbourhood.
The Mayor asked whether there was anyone else who wished to address Council and there was no response.
Council commented and queried relative to the District's bylaws regarding student enrolment and restrictions regarding changing elementary schools to secondary schools, and issues regarding the artificial turf field and lighting.
G. Boyle (Manager of Planning) noted the provisions of the Zoning Bylaw relative to student enrolment and permitted use for the zone, and that the field did not include lights.
[sig: Carolanne Reynolds, Editor, WVM]

Question : What is the truest definition of Globalization?
                                Answer : Princess Diana's death.
Question: WHY (YOU MIGHT SAY) OR How come?
Answer :        An English princess
        with an Egyptian boyfriend
        crashes in a French  tunnel
        driving a German car
        with a Dutch engine,
        driven by a Belgian,
        who was drunk on Scotch whisky (check the bottle before you change the spelling)
        followed closely by Italian paparazzi
        on Japanese motorcycles;
        treated by an American doctor
        using Brazilian medicines.
        This is sent to you by a Canadian,
        using Bill Gates's technology,
        and you're probably reading this on your computer, that uses Taiwanese chips,
        and a Korean monitor,
        assembled by Bangladeshi workers
        in a Singapore plant,
        transported by Indian lorry-drivers
        hijacked by Indonesians,
        unloaded by Sicilian longshoremen,
        and trucked to you by Mexican illegals.....
That, my friends, is Globalization!

There's no end to the number of weird and vaguely repellent terms invented by online communities. This one is a combination of "spam" and "blog". The term is a little confused at the moment -- some writers use it to refer to unsolicited and automated postings to a Web log, whose purpose is solely to sell a product (so they're the exact equivalent of email spam); others use it for entirely fake blogging sites whose real purpose is to trick people into visiting them and so exposing them to advertising, for which the splogger gets paid.
[Courtesy of Michael Quinion, of World Wide Words]
======================== ========================== ============

It's that time of year again!  Don your best chapeau and prepare to sip by the seaside!   Celebrating
2 - 4pm Saturday 2007 July 28th
Dundarave Park (foot of 25th) in West Vancouver, BC
Reservations@royaltea.ca or call 604 922 4400
tix/donation $5

Sign and send greetings to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II
Listen to the bagpipes!
Official Remarks around 3pm.  The Bard himself will be there in spirit and may even appear this year!
Please --
Join us for tea and goodies at the foot of 25th to celebrate our heritage. This is the eighth annual RoyalTea -- the first was to celebrate the Queen Mother's 100th birthday on 2000 August 4th.
Bring memorabilia for the display table.   Let me know if you'd like to tell its story.
Buy a videotape ($5) of the royal visit in 1939 and of previous RoyalTeas.
Listen to the music of some pipers from the JP Fell Pipe Band, West Vancouver's official pipe band.
Wear a fancy hat and win a gift certificate (three!) from Eleanor Mack, Milliner, for another one!
An estate tea from the 'Raj' will be served.

Thanks to Bas Collins (Police Archivist & Videographer), The Beach House Restaurant and The Blue Teapot in Dundarave, Marguerite Cassetta, Eleanor Mack (Ambleside milliner), Faximum Software Inc., Christopher Gaze, Milton M. Cameron (Pipe Sergeant) and Don McPhee (Pipe Corporal) of the JP Fell Pipe Band (WV's official pipe band), MarketPlace IGA (Dundarave), netVOICE Communications, Gloria Olmstead, George Pajari, Staff (Rebekah Aeberhardt and Genevieve Cashman), MLA Ralph Sultan, West Van Florist, the Parks Dept (Lara Freimond and Angela Hogan in particular) and the District of West Vancouver, and the volunteers helping and carrying on our traditions with love for community and country.

Carolanne Reynolds
Chair, Heritage West Vancouver [North Shore Heritage Forum, tel 926 8649; fax 604 484 5995]
carolanne@heritage.westvan.org  *   www.royaltea.ca
Past President, John Stuart (North Vancouver)

===  QUOTATIONS  ===

Conceal a flaw, and the world will imagine the worst.
                -- Martial (Marcus Valerius Martialis)

Where is the wisdom we have lost in knowledge? Where is the knowledge we have lost in information?
                -- T. S. Eliot (1888-1965)

Failure is the opportunity to begin again more intelligently
                -- Henry Ford

If you have made mistakes, even serious ones, there is always another chance for you.
What we call failure is not the falling down but the staying down.
                -- Mary Pickford

Appeal, v.t. In law, to put the dice into the box for another throw.
                -- Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary (1906)

The only way to keep your health is to eat what you don't want, drink what you don't like, and do what you'd rather no.
                -- Mark Twain