July 23/25 MTG NOTES
Calendar to Aug 31st/Sep 10th

by Carolanne Reynolds, Editor

Marvel at the fireworks.  Have fun at the Harmony Arts Festival Aug 3 to 12.
Coho Festival Sunday Sept 9; next Ccl mtg Sept 10! North Shore Heritage Weekend Sept 15/16.
Well, this is really a double issue (happy holiday reading!) b/c the 'last' ccl mtg before summer break was to be July 23 but it went on for about four hours so it was continued Wed morning from 9am and another four hours.  The Mayor summed up well at the end of the W'worth PH. [Apologies; haste resulted in many gaps in transcript.]
=  Vive le Canada; FACTCHECK; THEATREWATCH; BOOKWATCH/LANGUAGEWATCH; WEBWATCH; WV UPDATE; Your Tax Money 'at work' (2006 DWV Salaries/Expenses); Calendar for August (and beginning Sept)
=  PH/Ccl Mtgs July 23rd and 25th NOTES: Wentworth Campus expansion PH and Application; Evelyn Drive Master Plan; Redevt of 24th & Marine; DVP Applic for 4249 Rockbank (for Sept 10); Process for Consideration of an Equestrian Ctr; DVP Applic for 4343 Erwin Dr (to set date Sept 10); trouble in Paradise (monster homes in Dundarave, and overflowing creeks in Ambleside).
=  Subscribe; (more) Bard-ku; Quotations

=  A puny seven wonders selected!  Former NV Cclr Stella Jo Dean of NV came up with 100!
The Vancouver Sun came up with 100 for BC -- who has not marvelled at Long Beach/Tofino? our Rockies?  our oldgrowth enormous trees?
WVM readers came up with about 20 (listed in WVM 23), but I'm sure there are more!
=  Canada won this year's fabulous fireworks competition, Celebration of Light.  It really was much better than in past years.  China was better than in past this year too but Spain not quite as good as a breathtaking performance a couple of years ago.
Someone mentioned to me that there were 1523 realtors in WV -- is that true or is it for the North Shore?
BOOK NOW!  www.bardonthebeach.org or call 604 739 0559
Performances have racked up an impressive 100% attendance. The season ends Sept 23 and the rest of the season is already more than 80% sold!  There may be tix for Opera Night (Aug 20/27 sold out, just Sept 3 left).
= Comments on the plays were in WVM23 and earlier as they opened, but just so you know:
* The comedy The Taming of the Shrew is v v funny, slapstick spaghetti western, and already 95% sold out for the rest of the season.
* Julius Caesar is the powerplay (moved me to more bard-ku, see end of newsletter).
* Timon of Athens is the sleeper surprise, rarely performed, reminiscent of Beckett (go and find out the meaning of friendship, but then Julius Caesar does that too!).
* The highlights of Romeo and Juliet are the magnetic/dynamic Bob Frazer as Mercutio and the lively Lois Anderson as Juliet's nurse.
= Congratulations to Christopher Gaze -- honorary doctorate from SFU last fall, and on Aug 2nd was awarded the 2007 Medallion by the Children's Theatre Foundation of America.
* Two book reviews in the NY Times of 'The First Word' by CHRISTINE KENNEALLY:
-  Reviewed by WILLIAM GRIMES: Christine Kenneally's lucid survey of the expanding field of language evolution is dedicated to solving what she calls "the hardest problem in science today".          
'The First Word: The Search for the Origins of Language' -- Reviewed by EMILY EAKIN, a senior editor at the New Yorker, who asks:  Is there a scientific explanation for the human ability to use language?         
* The final book in the Harry Potter series sold a record 8.3 million copies in its first 24 hours on sale in the U.S.
* Checkpoints as reported by a Scot (CPT) -- http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cpthebron/message/947
Democracy's invisible line by Noam Chomsky and Daniel Mermet
The US writer Noam Chomsky talks about the mechanisms behind modern communication, an essential instrument of government in democratic countries - as important to our governments as propaganda is to a dictatorship.  Translated by Harry Forster -- <http://MondeDiplo.com/2007/08/02democracy>
Planet Pentagon *  by Nick Turse
The Pentagon is everywhere - literally. The US military now owns (and occupies) huge swathes of territory across the entire world.  Original text in English --  <http://MondeDiplo.com/2007/08/03pentagon>
Settled but unsettling: WVPBd/DWV and terminated Police Chief settlement.  Estimates of cost to taxpayers about $500K when all costs including legal calculated.
Different contract for new Chief -- what a honeymoon -- he certainly will have a 'get out of jail free card' as highly unlikely WVPBd in any position to critique or terminate him; but I do also think it highly unlikely he'd do anything untoward.
Just that with the termination of the former chief after a matter of mere months, the Board is hardly in the position to risk further opprobrium if this one treated the same way.


===  DWV Council and Staff SALARIES 2006 [ABOUT 80% OF BUDGET]
For the full report (with names), go to: http://www.westvancouver.ca/upload/documents/Finance/FIA_2006.pdf
Mayor Pamela Goldsmith-Jones:
Remuneration: $62, 582.40  Taxable Benefits: $1,658.88   Car Allowance: $3,816.00   Expenses:  $8,801.31
Councillors  / Remuneration  / = ; Taxable Benefits  /  Expenses
John Clark      $22,989.58      $  768.96            $  711.53 
Rod Day         $22,989.58       1,152.00              (231.43)
Jean Ferguso    $22,989.58         120.96             2,400.99
Michael Smith   $22,989.58       1,416.96              (231.43)
Bill Soprovich  $22,989.58       1,212.00               271.17                 
Vivian Vaughan  $22,989.58         120.96             5,329.16

                                TOTAL REMUNERATION:  $ 227, 837.90

                      (These are salaries; add 30% for benefits; Fire/Police Chiefs below with staff.)

Chief Administrative Officer               $      188,427.49    $ 7,786.58

Director of Planning, Lands, and Permits          144,985.77      1,110.52
Director of Administrative Services               138,909.51      5,842.54
Director of Finance                               137,145.26      2,147.06
Director of Engineering and Transportation        134,831.21      3,129.05
Director of Parks and Community Services          134,692.24      3,673.89
Director of Human Resources and Payroll Services  115,442.56      3,768.44
Director of Library Services                      114,848.67      1,137.63

> [partial list] 2006 STAFF SALARIES AND EXPENSES (Names deleted but appear on DWV website)
                Position  --  Remuneration  --   Expenses

Network Analyst 76,039.72 4,864.02
Business Manager - Engineering & Transportation 98,639.47 4,324.51
Manager - Community Planning 104,884.48 981.77
Superintendent of Maintenance - Transit 81,316.60 351.42

Deputy Director Parks & Community Services 105,668.16 2,295.28
Facilities Maintenance Manager 85,656.75 1,886.56
Equipment Superintendent 84,478.30 952.12
Transit Manager 109,763.44 600.00

Supervisor - Utilities (Water) 78,184.31 75.00
Manager - Roads & Transportation 96,475.76 5,654.61
Health, Safety & Human Resources [Adviser] 78,508.91 953.97
Divisional Fire Chief 95,121.40 262.50

Recreation Services Manager 88,549.04 498.43
Manager - Utilities 95,948.79 4,366.26
Manager - Purchasing & Risk Management 102,325.12 2,624.95
Land & Property Agent 78,102.43 744.00

Manager - Information Technology 95,073.24 1,834.13
Manager of Bylaw Services & [Licensing] Services 86,821.84 3,902.45
Deputy Director - Human Resources & Payroll 88,096.40 712.78
Utilities Superintendent - Sewer 86,552.80 2,573.16

Manager - Environment & Sustainability 97,551.74 3,164.97
Manager - Park Services 99,815.06 1,741.76
Utilities Superintendent - Water 91,037.29 1,968.47
Project Engineer 76,881.61 1,818.78

Supervisor - Inspections 78,308.21 917.81
Transit Service Co-Ordinator II 85,862.34 89.00
Senior Community Planner - Development 83,184.88 876.77
Park Operations Manager - Horticulture 84,366.43 3,000.31

Park Operations Manager - Facilities 88,070.93 3,342.33
Assistant Manager - Building Construction & Contracts 90,091.15 65.76
Fire Chief 124,180.03 448.32
Manager - Permits & Inspections 98,098.39 1,752.53

Senior Community Planner - Urban Design 76,379.08 956.77
Supervisor - Utilities (Sewer) 89,209.24 80.00
Superintendent of Operations - Transit 85,075.07 2,040.62
Manager of Legislative Services/Municipal Clerk 96,805.91 2,940.28

Roads Superintendent 93,519.24 899.50
Manager - Revenue & Collections 95,265.67 950.45
Manager - Financial Reporting & Accounting 95,127.35 4,321.43
Utilityworker - Basic 83,411.81 970.00

Total For Employees Over $75,000 (Excluding Police)  $ 9,091,324.13 -- $ 124,909.95
Total For Employees Under $75,000 (Excluding Police) $ 27,827,084.84 --$ 186,995.15
Total For Police  -- $7,837,016.22 --  $ 80,245.73
Total For All Employees -- $ 44,966,211.79 -- $ 409,202.13
Grand Total of Remuneration and Expenses 45,603,251.82
Note:  Reporting of Police remuneration details has been temporarily suspended for 2006, on Provincial instructions.  {It is my understanding the Police Chief's salary last year was about $133K.}


                Supplier -- Name -- Amount

AldrichPears Associates Ltd             $      50,960.75
Arnston, Carole                                39,802.60
Artemisia Garden & Design Services             35,091.81
Associated Engineering (B.C.) Ltd.             70,905.48

BA Blacktop Ltd.                            2,561,344.66
Baker & Taylor Books   = ;                        48,019.65
Benwell Atkins Ltd.                            49,425.97
Big Bold Beautiful Banner Co.                  37,385.90
Black Tusk Helicopter Inc.                    102,318.71
Burley Boys Tree Service Ltd.                 112,023.40
Business Pro Computers                         45,491.30

Carrera Management Corporation                104,423.02
Chapman Land Surveying Ltd.                    31,172.58
Chartwell Consultants Ltd.                     36,951.57
Christensen Excavating                        156,214.08
Christopher J. Stead Tennis Services           35,314.28

Claymore Clothes (1982) Ltd.                   58,930.55
Colliers Macaulay Nicolls Inc.                 70,149.49
Commercial Body Builders                      120,555.00
Concept Fiatlux Inc.                           42,585.00
Cypress Tree Service                          119,610.12

D. Litchfield & Co. Ltd.                       64,835.00
Dayton & Knight Limited                       389,651.27
Dell Computer Corporation                     143,100.75
DJ Spence Trees                                30,634.00
Downtown Revitalization Program Society        74,311.27

Earth Tech (Canada) Inc.                       84,644.30
Elite Xpress Collision Service                 27,423.16

Fasken Martineau Dumoulin LLP                  80,891.08
Financial Consulting Solutions                 76,296.67
Fitness Depot                                  30,014.71

G. Trasolini Contractors Ltd.                  96,241.15
Greater Vancouver Regional District         2,095,804.94
Guild, Yule & Company LLP                     333,809.01

Hanily Golf Management Inc.                   207,128.02
Headwater Management Ltd.                     137,659.20
Hollyburn Sailing Club                         53,900.00
Hughes Condon Marler Architects             1,492,103.63

Indigo Books & Music Inc.                      30,825.38

Jerry's Caf=E9 & Catering                        32,287.14

Lidstone, Young, Anderson                     236,298.57

McTar Petroleum Co. Ltd.                       56,925.20
Merletti Construction Ltd.                    263,663.19

Microserve                                    210,706.88
Midlyn HR Communications                       48,800.76
Mills Printing & Stationery                   181,835.49
Municipal Pension Plan                      6,543,399.50

ND Lea Consultants Inc.                        46,456.69
Nederman Canada Ltd                            52,638.12
Neptune Food Service                          126,371.29
Neptune Technology Group                    2,236,580.16
North Shore News                              104,341.29

Oracle Corporation Canada Inc.                124,509.45

Pacific Blue Cross                          1,051,975.26
Postage by Phone                               67,080.00
Prime Source Office Furnishings Ltd.          140,052.08
PW Trenchless Construction Inc.               316,927.29

Sandea Engineering Ltd.                       104,044.82
Scott Construction Ltd.                     3,033,820.32
Sky Line Net Installations Inc.                25,762.60

Softchoice Corporation                        181,680.95
Software Training Solutions                    31,009.38
Spaxman Consulting Group Ltd.                  95,062.20
SPCA West Vancouver                           122,553.37
Stantec Consulting Ltd.                        51,453.03

Telus                                       1,142,898.01
Telus Mobility                                142,094.79
Tun, Xwa Lack (Creative Journey Studio)        94,231.88

UMA Engineering Ltd.                           83,901.26
Uncle Randy Productions                       108,631.48

West Bay PAC                                   34,612.42
West Vancouver Arts Centre Trust [KMC]        240,566.71
West Vancouver Community Arts Council          30,370.00
West Vancouver Fire Fighters Union            198,861.29
West Vancouver Municipal Employees Assn       238,799.39
West Vancouver [Policemen's] Association       75,841.31

Xerox Canada Inc.                             261,208.36
Zenon Environmental Inc.                      123,050.00

Total For Suppliers Over $ 25,000               $  103,685,798.55
Other Payments  $ 11,709,716.49

        GRAND TOTAL  $ 115,395,515.04

===  CALENDAR to Aug 31st / Sept 10 ===  [M Hall unless otherwise noted; ongoing at end]
REMEMBER the Farmers' Markets:
        Saturdays: Dundarave 10am - 4pm; Sundays: Ambleside (14th/Bellevue) 11am - 3pm
== Tues Aug 7th
        ~ 7pm ~ Cmnty Grants/NSh Social Services WG
== Tues Aug 14th
        ~ 6pm ~ Cmnty Ctr Governance WG at Srs' Ctr
== Sun Aug 19th  ~ 7 - 10pm ~ Concerts by the Sea (Ambleside Pier)
== Tues Aug 21st
        ~ 6 - 8pm ~ FBG Opening Reception: Inside the Circle (Artist in Attendance 2 - 3pm Aug 25)
        ~ 7pm ~ Cmnty Grants/Social Services Review WG at Fulton House
== Wed Aug 22nd
        ~ 7pm ~ Child Care Services WG at Fulton House
== Thurs Aug 23rd
        ~ 5:30pm ~ POLICE BD special/extra mtg; new Chief at Ch of Commerce boardroom
== Sat Aug 25th * Nature at Night * Lighthouse Park * (LPPS)
        ~ 8pm ~ Free guided evening walk with naturalist; meet at upper kiosk, bring flashlight
== Sun Aug 26th  ~ 7 - 10pm ~ Concerts by the Sea (Ambleside Landing)
== Thurs Aug 30th
        ~ 5pm ~ NASCDI (DNV M Hall)
        ~ 5:30 - 7:30pm ~ Rodgers Creek WG
== Thurs Sept 6th       ~ 4:30pm ~ Design Review Cmte Mtg
                ~ 5:30pm ~ Rodgers Crk WG
== Sun Sept 10th        ~ 9am - 1pm ~ BC SPCA (at WV SPCA)
                ~ 9am - 6pm ~ Coho Festival (Ambleside Park)

+++  SCULPTORS' SOCIETY of BC  +++  Aug 4 - 6
Where can you view and even make sculpture in a beautiful garden setting?
The Sculptors' Society of British Columbia returns to the VanDusen Botanical Garden for their 2007 Summer Program featuring Sculpture Workshops, an Artist's Demonstration (free), a Sculpture Exhibition and Evening Reception amongst the flora and fauna of the garden.
Sculpture Exhibition:
From August 4th-6th the Sculptors' Society of British Columbia exhibits outdoor sculpture in the beautiful garden.   Sculptors presenting their works are:  Carmen Arguelles-Lasley, Mario Armitano, Jean-Guy Dallaire, Garry Davies, Olga Dubisskiy, Sylvia Escobedo, Georgia Hunter, Naim Iseni, David Kydd, Gerda Lattey, Richard Marcus, David F. Marshall, Josette Martinet, Greg Muller, Claire Murgatroyd, Parvaneh Roudgar, Jesse Rubin, Alex Shick, Cliff Vincenzi, David Walker, Louise Weir, and Bruce Voyce.
Reception On Saturday, August 4th, you are welcome to attend the evening reception from 6 - 8:30pm. Come and linger by the reflecting pool, enjoy the sculpture, and be entertained by guest vocalist Kate Hammett-Vaughan and guitarist Bill Coon.  There will be a cash bar.

+++  WV MEMORIAL LIBRARY +++  CLOSED on Sundays in July and August.
*  Tuesday 31 -- Book Talk
Vancouver author and speech pathologist Phyllis Ferguson Bottomer will discuss her newly published book So Odd a Mixture: Along the Autistic Spectrum in 'Pride & Prejudice'. 7:30 pm, Peter J. Peters Room. Everyone welcome.
*  Thursday Aug 9 -- Conversation in the Courtyard
Practise your English skills & join us in the Library Courtyard for casual and relaxed conversation. Bring your lunch or pick up a refreshment at our coffeeshop.
12 noon - 1 pm. August 9, 16, 23, & 30.
*  The Gallery At The Library Presents...
- Harmony Arts Festival  --  August 1 - 13
A Group Show featuring the works of:
Janet Daacon * Riita Peirone * Michelle Demers * Vern Montgomery * Gary W. Eder * Maggie Bernet * Jocelyn Fisk-Schleger * Andrea Argyros * Joanna C. Bevis * Jill Royall * Frieda Ashworth * Geri Watson * Mary Docksteader * Masako Araki * Irena Eacott * Jean Bonvini * Lorraine Surcouf * Paula Fodchuk * Jean Lee * Lynn Webster * Karin Konoval * Allan Forest * Cheryl Yates * Lynn Colpitts * Carole Wilson * Ann Mitchell * Ruth  Casselman * Christine Collison * Lucy Collings * Vange Brossard * Dale Waldorf * Unmani Jill Orendorff.  NOTE: There will be no opening reception for this exhibition.
- Spiritualized -- August 17 - 31
Religion, wisdom, imagination, and intellect are the themes represented in the photographic, mixed medium, and painted works by Vange Brossard, Vasgen Degirmentas, and Atza (Aleksander Visjic). Please join us for the opening reception hosted by the friends of the Library. Everyone is welcome.
Friday, August 17, 6:30 - 8pm
* Ulysses Reading Group
A reading and discussion of James Joyce's book Ulysses.  Tuesdays, Sept 4 & 8, 10:30am - 12:30 pm, Peter J. Peters Room

*  Exploration in Chaos -- July 17 - 29
        Caroline Witteveen - fractal digital image; Ray Lipovsky - pen on paper
        July 17 * Opening Night: 6 - 8pm; July 21 * Artists in Attendance: 2 - 3pm
*  Harmony Arts Showcase Exhibition August 3 - 19; Opening Night: 6 - 8pm Friday, August 3
*  Inside the Circle -- Aug 21 to Sept 9
        OPENING NIGHT: 6 - 8pm Tues Aug 21; Artist in Attendance 2 - 3pm Sat Aug 25

+++  WV MUSEUM +++  Traditional Music and Dance of Scotland
The WV Museum building (house) was originally built by Gertrude Lawson, who hosted countless nights of Scottish dancing in her house. The main floor, made of oak, was designed to be large enough for two sets of Scottish dancers. There was a raised platform at one end for Scottish bag pipers.  Learn the ancient art of Scottish Country Dancing at the historic Gertrude Lawson House this summer!
You are invited to join for an informative demonstration of Scottish Country Dancing. May Loudon (experienced Scottish Country Dance teacher) and Angus MacKinnon (Scottish fiddler) will discuss the cultural significance of Scottish dance and fiddle music.
Each session (7:30pm) will focus on a particular theme:
July 11 =  17th century dances  /  July 25 =  Old dances still popular today
August 8 =  20th century revival  /  August 22 =  Contemporary Scottish dances
Admission to these sessions is by donation. Please call at 925 7295 to book your spot in advance.

+++  WV ARTS COUNCIL +++ visit www.silkpurse.ca for events (most ticketed)
--->  See www.harmonyarts.net for Harmony Arts Festival events
--->  For events at KMC, see www.kaymeekcentre.com

===  CCL MTGS' NOTES July 23rd/25th ===[Public Hearing followed by ccl mtg]

ZONING BYLAW NO. 2200, 1968, AMENDMENT BYLAW NO. 4517, 2007 (re  Collingwood School - Wentworth Campus)
...  If PH/Public Mtg closed or if Ccl wishes a staff report, it will be reconvened at a given date. Three readings are scheduled in the regular ccl mtg that follows (Item 5); adoption then wd hv to be Wednesday.
Mayor: apologize a little late, trying to wrap everything up before summer recess
Sop: left b/c of conflict of interest
SJN gave background to date; ppl wishing to speak this evening
Mayor gave explanation; MClk reported on submissions since last PH; Mayor said applicant wd start.
Brian Hume: principal of CJP Architects of New Westminster, was absent for last mtg.
wrt traffic now comply with standards
design team has had discussions on other mitigating measures re traffic volumes in area (headmaster will talk about)
did look at other locations but required grades for playing field made it impossible and pushed over went into riparian area; feel this is the best location, as you see before you
parking for staff, they'll walk; geothermal under fields so important to be close
third issue was retaining walls and geotechnical stability; our consultant has been working with us and I've brought illustrations [up on screen]
Here's 30ft retaining wall in Coquitlam, a green wall, an engineered safe solution
wrt drainage and runoff, Webster Engg has a report and here tonight to explain if needed; will be better handled than currently
Mistake corrected: FSR will be .19 rather than .17 (residential is .35); bldg coverage is 11.4% when 40% is allowed
We're saying his client has obtained large piece of prop with low density devt on it and nbrhd is getting a large green space with walking trails and shd be considered an amenity

{er, um.  There are statistics and damn statistics, to paraphrase the expression.
No wonder sins come in at least two categories: commission and omission.
While density makes one think of how many units/ppl and the WV residential limit is indeed .35FSR/FAR (Floor Space/Area Ratio, square footage/area/size of the structure/building vs square footage/area/size of the lot; eg 3500 sq ft home on a 10,000 sq ft lot), that means about one third of the area.  It also means single-family homes, usually three or four ppl per residence, no?  And with downsizing, a lot of empty-nesters are just two to a residence.  BPP's property in the Rodgers Creek area is 2.5 upa (units per acre), lower than the average. 
This property is 17 acres, wch wd be about 43 units/homes so about 170 ppl; at 4upa (approximating the average in WV) you'd get maybe 70 homes, and to be generous at four ppl per dwelling that means 280.  Wentworth campus, however is going to be for an enrolment of 850 with over 100 staff.
Do you detect a slight difference in the number of cars and use of those narrow (at least at present only two-lane) streets with that many students? 
There may indeed be more green space, but a heck of a lot more ppl wanting/needing the green space -- and all those little footie prints on the land......}

Call on headmaster to comment on third nbrhd mtg held last week
R Wright: Headmaster
commend Ccl for time they've taken; sophisticated plans to improve school and serve our students better
acknowledge Collingwood has been somewhat of a thorn in the side, esp those on Chairlift, do believe this can benefit school and DWV
traffic mgmt plan designed by our architects and consultants, sanctioned by your Planning Dept
can mitigate traffic on street and number of cars flowing by
this solution a lot better than status quo
only nominally building structures on large... better utilization for our nbrs than if all housing
for public: artificial field, green space, dbl gymnasium, theatre... look forward to chairing for good of nbrhd
walking trail will link Chairlift, west, Marr Crk; pedestrian walkway over Upper Levels at 26th; enables those in north Dundarave to access walking trails
third point, pledge, and brought copies of, admittedly overdue better late than never; we wd appoint a liaison officer for any issues or concerns; will be forming a nbrhd relations cmte to meet regularly, put on our website wch wd hv details; will be implemented right away
Amelioration of the traffic and parking woes and those public amenities won't start until 2010; ultimate solution
have been exploring several good ideas; factors considering putting in place asap include ...  sidewalk between 25th and Chairlift, dropoff zone, and perhaps building a trail along school... walk to school initiatives... turning circle, shuttles, different reconciliation of traffic flow
although confident not ultimate solution, are factors considering and will do now
in Sept adding staff to street and train them as whistleblowers; going to try to continue to educate our parents some of whom have been quite naughty and a few who have spoiled it for the great majority
more consciousness of nbrhd concerns; don't want to be a thorn, feel our school a credit to the District
School Presentation re various measures: cmte, website info, sidewalk as dropoff zone, shuttles
we're educating close to 600 WV families
special programs only Collingwood offers; threshold higher than public schools; world class public speaking; strong record of placement; we think we're a credit to WV; this project will increase our credit...
JF: liaison cmte, expect an ongoing prog?
RW: forever and ever, amen
JF: will cmte be put in place even if we don't approve?
RW: sure
JF: change attitudes?
RW: want to be good corporate nbrs; don't have a good track record
JF: and throughout construction, shd that be the case?
RW: sure
Brent Wolverton (sp?): now Mathers Cr; 1331 - 13th St until recently near Ridgeview, lived there for 17 years
increased traffic; was a bit trying, but remind Ccl school serves the greater good of the cmnty
100s of families served by Ridgeview and Collingwood, am speaking in favour
use fields, with four kids, great; schools are assets to cmnty and nbrhd
most schools suffer traffic, applaud C'wood -- reached out to address problems, way ahead of others
got to nurture schools; support; allow C'wood to become a greater facility, asset to cmnty and nbrhd
Bill Clark: Regency Place, two in Collingwood, on in Gr 10 and another in Gr 3; support
bn asked to chair a construction and devt cmte; long time exp in real estate, devt, and construction to make sure best practices followed, managed best way, least disruption, finished asap
Lynn LaFleur: wd it be possible to have the site plan up again? wd be relevant to my presentation
lived here for 17 years; opposed on many grounds, too big for area
at present...  Ridgeview has 400+ and to Gr 7, Collingwood goes to Gr 5
309 is the av enrol of elem schools
virtually all driven to school b/c from far afield
most residents hv had to accommodate
school believes it can double enrolment and relieve congestion -- I find that preposterous
[points to plan]
nbrs living on Chairlift can't make lefthand turns out of their props, so how can they?
against ppl coming uphill
think chaos worse than at present
found Bunt study on website this weekend saying 900 cars
says this road has capacity for 90, that's 10%! Bunt's report to school
talking to nbrs, met a parent with two kids at Mulgrave -- we've got two big ring roads at Mulgrave and it takes her 20min to drop her kids off; lined up to hwy
Cypress more able to handle traffic than Chairlift wch runs through a residential nbrhd, Cypress does not
heard high school going to be travelling to [this] school for drama, etc; says kids wd come by bus but still expect 20 to 25 cars from Morven campus -- but we'd been told not during school hours
how do you count them? above the 850?
many residents consider this a done deal; opposed but...
hope wrong and...
hoped to take heart in OCP, changes in cmnty will enhance quality of life....
hope you will reject
will overwhelm nbrhd; have a closer look in Sept when school is in session, independent look
Don Murray: Chairlift Rd; will read my comments hope they're in your pkg
immed across road; all the traffic passes my house
negative impact this school has had:
1 - 350 to 400 vehicles twice a day M-F, 1000ft down Skilift Rd; inconvenience and a disaster waiting to happen, no ability to pull off; not possible for an emerg veh to reach
2 - 40 to 50 regularly park on nbrhd streets so Chairlift reduced to single lane
3 - patrons of the school both children and parents, shouting and honking I can live with, but littering and..... debris
good nbr 'words'
C'wood has not been a good nbr; has been an unwelcome and intrusive nbr
understand complaints similar to complaints from Morven
66% increase in enrolment, will improve the traffic?  who wd hv guessed? [laughter]
160 spaces, staff req 100
325 increase in enrolment
have had opp to review traffic analysis by Bunt, reminded of a prof from years ago: if you torture numbers long enough they'll confess to anything
important assumptions in Bunt Study: collected in 2004; new home construction above ...
what if 100?
Chippendale v circuitous
what if 90% not 50?
seven vehicles......  325, only .94 per student
no idea if real world will unfold this way
Chairlift Rd was never built for 500 cars to go up and down...
850 students 100 staff...
next to a more robust road system
[Bell timer rings] no time to read rest but hope you will
Don ?????: wish to question the market need with a demographic trend, aging
no doubt...
...no market need
to grow the market brand, beyond the NSh
what benefit does WV receive?
may get access to fields
excess space -- by NV?
traffic congestion
in June Rodgers Crk WG had an Open House; DWV admitted only limited... ; study in 2008
Cypress or 21st
if congestion, and generators shd be judged by services to WV
a lot play with my six-yr-old daughter
$20M, not just nbrs to a small
characterize them as daytrippers
long daily trek for 12 years
open a campus on West side of Vanc or C Plateau
I went to SFU in [year]; they opened near Howe St -- they took to market place
campus in China
it's a non-starter; C'wood gets an expanded brand and we get xxx
Jorgen Jacobsen/Jorgensen (?): live on Chairlift with my wife and three chn -- resounding NO
however if not possible, signif steps to limit damage
review before decision:
traffic; binding covenant with nbrs to keep enrolment to specified number of students, with financial penalty for students over the limit; traffic strategies -- one of the biggest concerns, growing from 450 to 850 -- any strategy to limit number of cars? why not addressed?
no traffic studies though planned for five years
lack of professional analysis of increased traffic leads one to conclude devprs don't care about impact on our cmnty
has [this?] bn seriously considered? not new traffic congestion
cd be funded by parents $200 fee per child
Covenant -- how can we ensure not the first stage of a longer-term devt of this area
will Ccl make a public stmt that there'll be no further devt?
we've bn told 850 students today, what tomorrow?
Collingwood promised Ccl limit 600; now 20% over; apparently school not informed

Well, it's true the school promised to limit enrolment to 600 (prev school was 450 and C'wood wanted 750)
One of the conditions of the special zoning defined for the school was this 600 limit on enrolment.  It's hardly credible no one at the school knew of the limit -- enrolment is now at least 715, that is more than 100 over that allowed, ~20% more!
Even more incredible -- and totally unacceptable/astounding/incompetent/fraudulent? -- is that each year DWV had to sign a provincial document confirming the Ministry of Education that the school was in compliance with ALL bylaws thus releasing millions of dollars in grants to the school.  Residents complained to staff about Collingwood's exceeding the limit from 2004, and possibly earlier.
What a mess.
And it really is a good school, indeed an asset to the cmnty.  Pity not setting a good example wrt respecting the law (and its nbrhd).  This unfortunately tarnishes what cd hv bn / ought to be a sterling reputation.}

sch bd running school as large concern
will Ccl publicly agree tonight to limit enrolment, and if not, why won't they?
if not, see it increasing beyond 850
the only way to protect from the same fate is to demand Ccl enter into a binding covenant...
financial penalty if over
then promise credible
Mayor: nearly finished?  Come back?
JJ: come back
Paulina Adamson: I'm 17 yrs old; what our daily life is like
traffic is already dangerous; walk my dogs and zooming
when I went to WV Secondary we had a deal with nbrs across the street; became a big deal to simply walk across the street, and as a 15-yr-old shdn't have to
increase to more times a day, toxins, pollution
C'wood's headmaster mentioned a walking trail but wd rather be able to walk up and down my own street
what'll happen when the number of cars going up and down doubles!!!!
as a student myself, I've been at debates at C'wood
if you look at WV Secondary, countless roads and that's the way a school shd be
one small road and nowhere to expand to; problem's going to get worse
hope you consider from our point of view as residents
Cal Bass: Chair of Bd of Governors; plsed to speak in favour; welcome opportunity for dialogue
want to ensure that all mbrs of cmnty's views heard
heard concerns and about traffic congestion; we want to mitigate this situation
believe our proposal will make situation far better; professional consultants have assured us
prepared to go beyond
world class ctr of learning, facilities av to cmnty; something we all can be proud of
600 families and alumnae ...
two v important things: timely completion and strong healthy relationship with our nbrs
filed letter of support signed by 150, we the parents of C'wood....... believe will alleviate traffic on both
Gabrielle Loren: Keith; C'wood parent
chose b/c the public school system cd not offer -- child care after school
I work; I come at 7:30 in morning and 5:30
don't park on Chairlift and don't come at peak hours; a few ruin it for many
if someone backing out, will let them in
not pleased when garbage cans left out and have to drive around, don't know if residents or garbage collector staff
[disgruntled rumblings]
do have a need for a middle school
I'm an older parent, want my kids to live here, go to school here; no other room for...
Cedardale closed b/c of lack of space and now asking us to find another place
agree to this devt, there is a need for it
Mayor: Ccl is not going to make its decision on applause
you have their full attention; they are experienced; both sides are well-represented tonight
Leanna Dohm: Bellevue; standing here as a resident -- do not have a child in this school and don't live in the nbrhd
glad we have a country where we can have an open debate
be consistent with OCP; we're one of the premier locations in Canada
staff report; outstanding job, looked at traffic, storm sewers, think they've done a wonderful job
you're not deciding tonight yes going ahead or no, you're not
likely more public input
Mayor: Ccl ...
Leanne D: but can be worked out with further input
Mayor: we're moving toward making a decision about rezoning
LD: can tweak the issues about parking as we go along?
CAO: that's up to Ccl; the issues are so big not go through or can...
Ccl to decide whether or not to go ahead
LD: all new devt has been a challenge; Rockridge -- ...... in opp
... Kay Meek, nbrs upset
all have been wonderful additions to the cmnty; all in WV shd be proud to have a first class facility
we need to grow as a cmnty; need and demand then we shd do our best to meet that
Abu Ansari: 378 Stevens Dr, on Bd of Governors, have a vested interest
my daughter in Gr 9 so won't enjoy fruits of this
want to clarify one or two misconceptions; this is not a biz, it's a non-profit org
heard of millions, am sure M's budget more than we spend
there is not personal gain for any parent or governor here; the gain is education of chn
we have 1200 students in all, 2,400 parents almost 200+ staff; so almost 4000 mbrs of this cmnty; this benefits all these ppl; tangible benefit for residents of WV
better when middle school b/c of crowding at Morven
not bigger facilities to get more students and make more money; to alleviate Morven
have 1200, not going to go much beyond that
education is a noble cause; I've been an educationist in my own world, all my life; never wavered in having new facilities, going to built better , for our chn..., our state, and our country

{Wrong country, Sir.  We have provinces.}

John Kelsall: Sinclair St W of WV Sec; been driving them to C'wood for five years; never peeled rubber or left garbage
four homes, always lived near schools; near KMC, another; then near St Anthony's School, anxiety, prop values, what wd look like; current home just west of WV High
St Anthony's were traffic concerns but improvements with traffic circle improved and less than proposed by Collingwood at Wentworth
weddings, etc
don't go to that church but recogn better for cmnty; think C'wood looking to make things better; a lot to offer; support this
Andy Leparchuk (sp?): Glengarry Cr.  Completion of Wentworth expansion by 2010 decision for  Morven; odd, after decision has already been made
the reverse sequence is another example of City Hall disorder
list of unacceptable practices fairly long, the City Mgr and the [staff?]  .... knew that
Mayor: ... address [PH]; M Hall accepts proposals as they come in
if this goes ahead, 450 and if not, 600 and I think you're aware of that
AL: got correspondence from you that Morven and Wentworth ...
Mayor: C'wood has agreed to a cap on Morven regardless of the outcome of this
AL: after deliberation, the Ccl delivered what C'wood wanted
C'wood shd operate not from two but from three smaller campuses; school didn't like it and that idea died
Wentworth on similar path, as a resident of Glenmore, I wd greatly benefit from Wentworth expansion but it's beyond my comprehension that Ccl wd seriously consider this expansion
if C'wood [at Morven], wd not bus for years, wd not at Wentworth
if they did not play by the rules for years, they won't at Wentworth
if they did not keep promises at Morven, won't at Wentworth
if a daily surge of cars makes chaos on flat streets at Morven campus it will certainly create bigger chaos on steep streets at W'worth
C'wood,  and every time this money ...xxx
prefer if not satisfied, it wd influence some voters
fortunately the residents of Glenmore and W'worth together wd influence more
one Cclr Vaughan, not enough, we need four cclrs like her
Ron LeTroy: Chairlift Rd; think that the plan here for this school is far too big for this year
when you're out on Ch Rd, if you step out too far, you're going to get whacked by a car with a woman and a child in it -- and that's only where school is at now with these numbers of students
can't get across intersection, up to Skilift area; other road, Folkestone is plugged; backed up; don't know what his dream is of ten minutes, flies over ev else
there are signs saying not to drive up this area to watch the fireworks on Canada's birthday, can't one day a year, yet cclrs considering nine months a year
these chn all over the District
this is a KingKong devt in a small residential area
the bylaw ofcr said I'm writing tix but they don't care, parking all over, they just pay the ticket
Ppl running the school had better get control of the parents; they don't care
one said if you choose to live around a school -- well, beside small school, no one said a 17- or 18-acre campus
don't think I shd accept; nobody is against education; haven't heard one person say let's keep the kids as idiots
Dean Mailey: Chelsea Close: lending my voice with nbrs
1 - traffic; nbrs were opposing what might happen but we live through this ev day for ten months a year; problems v real; lineups from driveway of school to intersection of Chairlift and Skilift
in afternoon when waiting sometimes line up that doesn't move for 15 to 20 minutes; bumper to bumper and doesn't move until school out; two-lane country road and not intended for
2 - emergency veh needed for school or home during peak hours wd be impossible to gain access
3 - expanded traffic throughout day; turf field as teams from Morven and other schools come
been reaching out to C'wood for several years and only now when about to inflict more....
might be seen as selfserving; propose see good nbrhd policy in action for a year
4 - largest on N Sh; smaller elem many ingress/egress
true with Taylor's Outlook another, but used by v few parent; wait until Sept to have a traffic count/xxx ; delay decision; remarkable in middle of summer when you can't see firsthand; need to see; truly will change the face of our little cmnty forever
5- ???
Lady: the gentleman that just preceded me; exactly how I feel; cdn't hv said it better
if greenwall like this
Mayor: have to address us
Lady: if I cd put on the screen
Mayor: we'll do that
Lady: headmaster said marginal increase; I don't see 450 as marginal
one said shdn't buy around the school
bought on Chairlift.......   but we run our own biz so wasn't so much an issue as others
I've been caught in it; I wd never buy near or around a school
those lots aren't sold yet -- they're next to a school, I wonder why
the school is coming to me; after Chippendale opened up I called Police and
miraculously a lot of the speeding stopped; traffic has decreased since school's let out
not many know about Chippendale....
Whitby Estates they're fed up with trucks and traffic
when I told them another good route
bad time to bring this forward, summer, eight hours, 20 ppl; Whitby already has problem with BPP traffic
not asking for this school to be eliminated; saying the roads can't handle
this is a residential area, zoning; bought into one and want it to stay; no more students, no expansion...  circulated...
isn't that great landscaping -- acres of dandelions; they don't even think we're worth more
cd be...  stuck there for half an hour
steep hill, in wintertime extremely dangerous
they'll jam up streets and chat and sit there while we can't move
fact gym used in evening, teenagers, more and fast; six days a week!
shd be studied when school is on and you can come and you can see what's there; can see what a nightmare it is
Name?: both my chn went to C'wood, bought on Chairlift so close
no one's discussed...  Morven was going to be used as a boarding school ...
prob we've got is that the roads do not facilitate the traffic
the school shd be made to bring a new road in on 25th to facilitate, so not even on Chairlift Rd
shd be a ban, no vehicles ... they actually park on the sidewalk; stop and chat with their friends
if an emerg tried to come up that road they'd never make it; trucks can't even make it up; don't even have enough parking to accommodate
... Morven they changed the field into parking lot to accommodate; larger and and they're smaller
if I want to leave my house, I have to go out Chippendale, can't figure way; or go normal way, down the hill; new bridge going side of my prop
at the moment ridiculous, chaotic mess
you ppl need to wait till school's in, sit and watch, don't tell anyone
none of them live there -- except headmaster, he has no choice
Semantha Cressey: 1570 Ottawa at 10th year at C'wood; means a great deal to me, my home away from home
importance of teamwork, ev has .... to succeed; surrounded by caring ppl, constant encouragement to be the best....
Incredible to offer...  Gr 6 to 8, to discover who they are
speak honestly and from the heart; feel truly blessed to be part of this cmnty
Elaine Wong: 2311 Chairlift Close; immed vicinity of C'wood
not true that those speaking in favour of school not in [nbrhd?]
my husband and I feel a vibrant .....  undeniably there are traffic woes
we believe will relieve traffic congestion .... xxx
share facilities, commendable
? Kennedy: traffic -- what happens when I leave my house on Chairlift for 37 years
decided to work with the Properties, swing from Hillside
no school in the plan when we first moved in
school came out with a traffic system but sometimes I have a lot of trouble -- when stopped going down...... you cd throw a kid out of the car and you cdn't.....
eventually going to be an accident there too; take a look at this v serious
this school and reputation, my belief whole goal to make it a seniors' school
Barbara Bell: on Chairlift; dbl lane, no sidewalks
rather than polarize on our two sides
here's our country lane, here's an allowance for 25th St
if we [pointing], cd go back on Folkestone, and there's a solution
maybe it's the streetbuilding engineers who shd look at it now
XXX [didn't catch name]: 537 Eastcot Rd on Bd of Govs not intended to speak
on board 24 years ago; first three years
pleasure dealing with Cclr Smith; back out on floor
heard all these things we're going to do who are not on bd, frankly don't believe
we're not talking about problems today; further devp school credit to this cmnty and xxxxx
something we can all take pride in
reminds me 23 years ago with the original Morven Dr
change occurs; opportunity for choice
pride we can take in an institution, established, moving on
C'wood needs to grow...  better and enriched environment
take into consideration and ......
may have made mistakes in past
will listen, take advice, establishing liaison groups
a lot of time, effort, money spent to alleviate the probs
not a for-profit corp; non-profit, established that way
BC, Canada, and the world
Anna Stelevias [??]: speak in support; parent and resident at 2611
heard about not living on street; living in area for seven years now; commiserate with friends
I work, professional person downtown
ev single morning; odd days will be congestion; at times traffic stopped
it's a five- or ten-minute loop around; if ice and snow, told not to bring chn to school
yes, we're building RAV lines
none of us complaining ....bridges, 40% increase ...  stuck
doesn't mean I don't want to live there any more
will settle it; ev being able to drive in the area
Eleanor Minish: I moved to WV for C'wood, I lived in NV and built a house on Chairlift and my two chn attend, on bd of C'wood school, chaired planning
sent to 1200 parents had 600 parents tell us they wanted a middle school
we believe educating the middle years
not a hi sch campus, a campus of their own
I believe in this plan; report for Bunt (did reports for York, St George's); believe in listening to nbrs
C'wood is an incredible cmnty
heard about garbage and park that's wrong
committed to put extra ppl to
want to do a green prog
like the idea of 25th; may do a Chairlift grind
if we can encourage chn to work we will
willing to look at Salmon House, drop chn off, walking prog
isn't a sidewalk all the way up
encourage walking and making ppl healthy
Charles Sheppard: jumping off a little bit too quickly
read report; does not take some things into consideration
dropoff and pickup is more or less a social club...  impact...
I've sat myself, take five minutes to move ten cars...  congestion
from earlier, Jacobsen/Jorgensen? [didn't catch]: wd like to reiterate
if Ccl agree to a binding covenant
then must ask why not...
Another man:  wonderful person; a lot of congestion
got to get home, got to put a two-year-old to bed
a lot of probs ... sr administrators of C'wood
ten issues
= 2004 data, 2006 count
why not 2006/7 date; shd be for full capacity for 2014
cars meters and trips
saw Bunt email to M; cd be muddled wd be costly; sev weeks of work
now xxx residents
what can we do to make it work
Morven campus lower.  1.68; .98; Morven .78nam and pm ?????? {obviously statistics I didn't follow}
Bunt had no explanation for diff; I propose b/c older students drive
...... 64 homes in Marr Crk; many use
only nine props on Chippendale
Chelsea closer to .... than Marr.  yet ..... still uses Chairlift
six new homes been built
discrepancy is...  doesn't report, .... construction ... or trades ppl
table; all had scope for 3 to 3:50pm; for some reason stopped counting at 2:30pm, lineup is 2:45 to 3:30pm for entire
did anyone actually read the report; how does this educate students re due diligence?
primary obstacle to... shd be rejected
recommend we have a working group between nbrhd, school, Bunt
we talked parent to parent; survey can be based on three things
basis of any further ....  traffic study
fundamentally this report is flawed
Lady: not ev has time to go through [reports] ... daunting ... I spent hours going though it
they said 900 cars in morning and 700 in aft.and also said they can take 90 -- you do the math
nobody has any problem with the problem of C'wood education; sorry if you think we don't like the school, it's great -- but sorry, we live here
we know from legal cases, experts with diff opinions
plans are just theories; George Bush has a plan
{heard some snickers; IEDs might make convoys more careful.} 
Mayor: try to stay on topic
Lady: important is ppl on the ground, and we are the ppl on the ground
Brian Hume: the architect referred to earlier
obliged to clarify; when headmaster talks about a house; don't go round and measure..... just illustrative; his house may not look like his house
Ms LeTroy: a little story out of school.  The headmaster's wife was going to a welcome society--
Mayor: newcomers
Ms LeTroy: --and she was half an hour late; and she told him, I cdn't get out of my driveway!
Peter Joyce: principal with Bunt; over three years with school, mtgs with residents during school period; well aware of all that
encouraged that report is av to the public; useful discussion of assumptions
we may not all agree, natural
the process is that a prof engg firm has prepared a report we stand by and reviewed by DWV staff concurred and Fire Dept
prob, report is clear on that
we do agree the congestion on Chairlift that the existing sch is just not capable of
with the proposed expansion, the parking on the site increased by a factor of four, queueing ...
that's why confident even with increase in numbers..... far more efficient than what you have today
have looked at 25th -- the grades, 20% grade, far beyond the M's accepted max
don't think a viable option
four applications...... traffic mgmt plan prepared; monitored on a regular basis; if adjustments or tweaking required
prior to 2010 when all realized
there may be some measures, to alleviate; happy to review with staff further
Ron LeTroy: 2575.  This man talks about a ringroad going around a school as if they're going to stay there all day; they're still going to have to go down and up; no matter how long they sit there
run us over
or come back and do same deal again
talk as if ppl camping there; they can't disappear
the Fire Dept -- spoke to the, at 8:30 with traffic on both sides, where wd traffic go -- ppl can't even pull over; can't even get out of way
fire, ... no getting up there
he's not telling the truth
Mayor: I'm sure he's telling the truth
RLeT: didn't mean that; but cdn't get truck up at 8:30am
Carol ???: court and Place: finance and building home there going to live there; v nervous
diff 8:30 to 9 and 2:30 to 3:;30; parents don't respect our driveway
been hit almost twice now; opposed
Lise B?: repetition of other ppl; to do with traffic issues
don't understand that there's a report from C'wood that traffic issues going to be mitigated and improved by number ...
Chairlift and W'worth; no matter how many times circulate, these cars will have to make the drive up Skilift and Chairlift to get the chn up and back down again
no matter how many times going round and round, not going to....
as to number of cars that pass by our areas .....
hazardous road conditions; concerned about pollution, increased
impossible to drive in and out of driveway
kindergarten being proposed, two sessions: 8:30 to 11:30 and 12:30 to 3pm; add'l trips
with playing fields and gymnasium, chn coming over from Morven campus; out of school and weekend activities
our cmnty's future and health does depend on ...
chosen to settle here on basis of zoning, walking, safety of nbrhds
all for C'wood; integrity of ..... edu a fine one
but it will not be determined on whether this land used
school's vision will remain the same; the education does not rely on moving to this area
perhaps an area where doesn't so adversely affect nbrhd
prestigious school, marketing to outside area
concerned and upset about our home and our chn
Allan Wai: New resident; after sitting here for an hour; feel a strong sense of suffering and pain; can't tell who's more credible
crying for help; believe true
just by listening, all good ppl not anti-education or anti-civilization
but living
and if current school and if doubling or tripling, that's a huge deal
hope take this issue seriously
a lot of ppl unable to tolerate any more
hope you wd postpone, more information, more discussion; that way any decision best for residents and for school
{Sorry my notes don't convey adequately the emotion and sincerity and caring in this slightly accented English; several of us were moved and impressed by his comments.}
Doug Saxon: Chairlift Rd; the way traffic currently goes in; Skilift right on W'worth and comes out right here where island is
problem, this extra traffic not going to block traffic just here, but past school all the way up to Marr Crk and into ...
three times the amt of blockage Chairlift Rd
this island [pointing], city has put sign here no parking, only way I can get to my house! they park there and I can't get up to my house
instead of tix they have to get towed
they wdn't ... don't care about ticket, still there, just pay and go
going to be towed
real big issue...  going to take traffic... now all the way up here... all the way up hill... nothing there
talked about 25th -- v simple, negotiate, buy a piece of lane Marr Crk bridge, come in and out
problem with this project is only one road in and one out, one lane
[those] who live there just have to sit there until traffic goes
Don Murray: fundamental problem is number of cars going up Chairlift is 6, 7, to 800, way too many for that tiny street; been for years
used to be asking for zoning changes
I look for -- how is there, or is there, a middle ground?
for residents the traffic is a nonstarter, that's the challenge, not the school
the students have to arrive by bus; not free passes; just have to; don't do it willingly
850 students and 100 staff; like LGB study, it's still only two lanes
800 cars trying to go there, not working no matter how you massage it
school been trying to make it more manageable
only way to go is a compulsory bus system if it's to proceed at all
Peter Joyce: with Bunt and Associates; continue to hear concerns with queueing and how extra traffic can be dealt with
agree existing cannot accommodate more but changes on site designed to take traffic off
way to get students out of cars; worked with most of the large schools
the C'wood busing program the largest we've seen
school is confident looking at getting them in buses
W'worth, more difficult to get the younger students in the  programs; older more prepared for busing
XXX Adamson: having a problem understanding; quite a simple situation, how the cars are going to go up the road round and back down, and how that can be improved
simple question, trouble understanding
roundabout in the school area, perhaps a bit dim-witted; but how do away with the prob if it's small road going up and down
going to have two more dropoffs and pickups for kindergarten chn, numerous more for middle and more for hi school doing sports
don't see when sch says mitigated situation, why we cdn't get a clearer indication how it will be done
if not buses, a certain number of cars
widen the roads
I don't get it, totally lost
went to mtg at headmaster's house, still at a loss as to how it's being mitigated
just driving around, nothing to do with roads above and below
John Kennedy: we know Chairlift is jammed
they also take ten or 15 min to get out in the morning, they're all being affected too
only one fast is bus b/c no one on it!  maybe one or two, v difficult to see
name [?]: four chn; one graduated from C'wood three at
bus pass, we use it; my chn catch bus at 7:23 from MDr
most of us do know we have to go green; school has really pushed the bus pass
as older know have to take bus
more will; know what's it's like..... driveway, no one wants to make it more difficult
we as parents want to go green, safe transportation, save gas, noise pollution
we are trying to do the right thing
there is another prop to build this school, wd like to build there and have ev happy
no I will not be driving my SUV up twice a day
my daughter graduated three years ago, if activity after school they will be bused
Ms Lafleur: petition; a lot reiterated
Brian Hume: architect feel obligated to
mitigate current problems... loop within site, ... parents back up down Chairlift... concept is to allow them to get
RW: no parking on Chairlift; consultants have told us
still understandable consternation about number of cars
300 new cars but not that's why use marginal
have 77 families in both middle and jr sch and that wd necessitate one trip
something significantly less than that
do understand genuine angst ppl feel in nbrhd
I know as current headmaster I don't have a track record
feel better
on lands ... been acquiring over last ten years... want to give kids ... ; further devt of this school
my personal pledge to work with nbrs, ongoing so we can be proud mbrs of this cmnty
JC: move extend 15 minutes
SSch: reg ccl mtg
Mayor: -- not sure 15 minutes; till close of biz; thank you
Student: isn't just traffic, it's the number of cars; already been a prob
already been in contact with C'wood and nothing changed in three years
needs of C'wood in their eyes, but who's going to look out for us?
little kids want to go out
[Mayor asked three times if anyone else wanted to speak]: now Ccl, close or adjourn?
JC: receipt and close
VV: understand one gentleman was going to get info; rushed to ofc
Mayor: do; closed PH so can't
Man: okay
VV: hesitate to close; info; not in position of trust
if close have to make decision on what we've got; not sure way to go
Mayor: answers you need b/c if we don't close, what are you looking for
VV: told about slope, steepest part expressed great concern; really haven't gone into that; inclined to have more info on
if close, Ccl can discuss it but not receive info
Mayor: reports from staff tonight are on ......lists; let me hear from rest of Ccl
JF: I too have some.... about closing; not b/c I don't value .....fine job it has done
lack of cohesion between nbrs and school
last year Ccl was invited to see .... ......
and at that time talk of setting up issues Morven.....
know I suggested perhaps same at W'worth site /b/c may be some problems there as well, and unfortunate, set up cmtes now, if done last year probably wdn't have had lengthy PH we've had
frankly I'd prefer to delay
until such a liaison group has met; until come to a better understanding of problems, one another, and come to closure
some sort of commitment for enrolment
confident .... of traffic...  and going....... doesn't seem to me as if it wd work v well
don't have trouble with retaining wall
but getting students to and from
resolved to better satisfaction, walking, good one but without sidewalk; problem can DCC include sidewalk?
just seems to me a lot of discussion within nbrhd and xxx
to allow Ccl to make a decision in best interests of cmnty
VV: wrt geotechnical report
just as recently as May of this year, article in Outlook, Chair of Ctr of ... SFU
talks about earthquakes, in next cpl of decades
not suggesting not according to bldg codes but what sort of earthquake wd withstand
owner of one said, thought his family wd just be killed, he too was an engineer
want to know how/now...
one thing to have an insurance claim, another to have a house flattened
RD: not quite sure, have staff reports, if close don't know what we're going to do
understand they've had a mtg; not our mandate more mtgs; see it as closing or more reports
SJN: if Ccl has an idea of how voting one way or another, close
if Ccl doesn't know, and only outstanding traffic
you've heard some ppl say can't understand or experience until .....
further sch nbrhd mtgs then discuss residents and school on street what dealing with
CAO: the PH process is not a negotiating process
if signif info, that wd influence their decision; benefit more info from staff/cmnty
if you have suff info, feel pass it or defeat it, then ought to close it
really, if you need any more info, if the applic is deficient in your minds, defeat it then get more info ...  you might [know now??? so close, or want more info can be adjourned too; anyway was well summed up and choices presented]
RD: obviously a terrible traffic situation there, both sides agree
school argues only way is to expand the campus involves internal roads thus eliminating queues and parking
residents say it will just make it worse; issue is who's right
if we close we have to....  only way...
only reason to adjourn is who's right
experts, including our own staff, expansion will do the trick; experts have said to us
if we cd find a further study, then I'd support it
don't know how that will happen
involves hiring another traffic consultant, ask Bunt to go back
what tangible are we going to gain by adjourning?
VV: if we do adjourn until Oct we have to allow some time to pass, may be changes
if we close the hearing and defeat and this fails
by Oct school wd be in position to come back
can close
inclined to say, back in Oct, more agreeable to nbrhd, xxx
Mayor: not closing the PH is no reason not
if the cmnty will accept that; applic will accept; or have to go back to drawing board
retaining wall
ea mbr will have
I think Cclr F makes a good point, cmnty processes not served
good at Morven; not seen same here; worth exploring
decision one way or another
JC: if we close, we'd reconvene in Sept
Mayor: whole ccl mtg; meet Wed morning or next Mon
SJN: if....  traffic, isn't for zoning
under what conditions can Ccl come back; adjourning vs closing
SJN: not sure what answer is
RD: can be tabled till Sept
Mayor: can't receive further info
[vote] two and two
Mayor: shd close the PH
inordinate amt of good input; owe it to cmnty; shd make a decision
reconvene Wed morning or next week; I will vote to close Public Hearing
CAO: brief adjournment
[Many in audience for PH left]
===  REGULAR COUNCIL MEETING JULY 23  ======= [directly follows PH]<= /div>
Mayor: approval of amended Agenda wch includes adoption of minutes and Item 5
[JF moved.]
Mayor: need motion to reconvene Wed 9am; add to agenda
Minutes of July 9 third item?
[SSch pointed out wd be an add'l sp ccl mtg Wed July 25 9am (clarification)]
Mayor: anyone here for anything?  anything other than Item 5?  will reconvene PH
2.  ADOPTION OF MINUTES -- Adoption of July 09, 2007 Regular Council Minutes
---moved to Wed:
3.         B. Robinson, Canadian Freestyle Ski Association, regarding an Overview of the Freestyle FIS World Cup Skiing Competition at Cypress Mountain February 09/10, 2008 for receipt
4.         2008 Freestyle World Cup Opportunities for West Vancouver
5.         Zoning Bylaw No. 2200, 1968 Amendment Bylaw No. 4517, 2007 (File:  1610?204517)
            If the reconvened Public Hearing/Public Meeting regarding Zoning Bylaw No. 2200, 1968, Amendment Bylaw No. 4517, 2007 and Development Permit Application 06?034 for Collingwood School (Wentworth Campus) held on July 23, 2007 has closed, the following may be considered by Council:
RECOMMENDED for second and third readings
JF: can't approve for reasons given; feel school hasn't worked enough with nbrs
don't think proposal for nbrhd necessarily best for
JC: too big a for small nbrhd; not a nbrhd school like Hollyburn; bringing ppl in from all over Lower Mainland
only xxx yet only .....
doesn't make sense, xxx
Ridgeview xxx ... don't know
each and ev elementary school, they have been worked on by our Engg
changed -- one-way streets, have been mitigated in ea and ev school, now last is Rockridge
doesn't happen over night; haven't seen any evidence by C'wood to be proactive; and be gd nbr they say
VV: v little to add to what I've heard; made signif changes in intention
headmaster -- effort to listen to, new spirit but it's a little too late, needed that a year ago
engaging the cmnty now
see what several months of negotiation might bring
can't go forward with a nbrhd so united against the project
without enough time
series of productive mtgs with school
agreeing with my colleagues not in position to approve
RD: agree with my colleagues
initial hope, wd internalize traffic and improve situation
struck with the Morven debates and now, the depth of bitterness
change its way; change a bad regime; magnitude of animosity and bitterness
Ccl really has no choice to but to vote against this bylaw
come back when it's got its act together
Mayor: find myself agreeing with Ccl
have really worked hard for years with C'wood to connect with nbrhd
ev has reasonable ...  pride ...  and connectedness
everyone on Ccl believes in C'wood and believes.,,,,,
we wd like to look at a proposal...
and shaped
probably it is too ambitious given the road network and xxx
no more motivated
to work
school will be.....
am sure first time ppl have heard that tonight
all kinds of ideas
this is either not understood or too ambitious
Ccl great been xxxx
congratulate C'wood work done on Morven
second reading moved
Mayor: expect to see C'wood back and to work with cmnty.
Mayor: I feel compelled to ask for for public questions.  Is there any this evening?
VV: not even Carolanne is going to-- no?
Mayor: I know, only a bit of an announcement... RoyalTea
CR: very kind of you
Mayor: you thought I'd never ask!
CR, laughing (this was unexpected, had given up b/c so late, so put on my fancy tea hat and rushed up to say):
The RoyalTea is on Saturday from 2 to 4, and I hope you'll all come.  Eighth annual one; pipers will be there.  Thank you very much for allowing me to invite you all, after such a long meeting.
{In the surprise and rush I forgot to say it wd be at Dundarave Park; since so late I'd expected the Mayor to make the announcement b/c I'd had the flyer passed up to her.}

===  SPECIAL COUNCIL MTG -- JULY 25=   ======= [Wed 9am]
Mayor: Good morning.  Welcome.  Apologize cdn't get through all our biz on Monday night but it was an important one for Collingwood.  Approval of Agenda.
Sop: shd read special reg ccl mtg; withdraw Item 5 Animal Control Bylaw HBay, adding items 17 to 24 in Correspondence.
SSch: have received add'l Correspondence re 2484 Ottawa and they will be added as 25 and 26.
Mayor, renumbered agenda items: moving to Item 2
3.         B. Robinson, Canadian Freestyle Ski Association, regarding an Overview of the Freestyle FIS World Cup Skiing Competition at Cypress Mountain February 09/10, 2008 for receipt
4.         2008 Freestyle World Cup Opportunities for West Vancouver
            1.         The District of West Vancouver work in partnership with the Canadian Freestyle Ski Association around hosting the 2008 Freestyle World Cup at Cypress Mountain in February 2008;
            2.         Staff develop a plan and infrastructure for using the 2008 Freestyle World Cup to develop and expand our volunteer capacity, to build upon existing arts and culture programs and events, and to develop youth opportunities, sponsorships and partnerships; and
            3.         The details of the plan for West Vancouver's role in the Freestyle World Cup event be forwarded to Council for consideration and approval in the 2008 budget.
Bruce Robinson: [slide show] 200 volunteers; The Show Comes to West Vancouver
Sop: budget, $500K, in kind or?
Mayor: questions?
Ans: self-financed: in kind and what is comfortable
Sop: will ask later
JF: exciting; love opp; mentoring;
Ans: two-year project, 2008 but includes 2009; want to make long-term, not just 2010
JChuback, staff: can't think of a better way; presentation energetic and inspiring
partners Ch of Comm, Cyp, Park Royal, xxx
engagement and volunteerism; opp to build infrastructure
already had enquiries of ppl wanting to volunteer
area need to look at re resources, in-kind or one-time sp grants possibly mgmt, enhancement for opening ceremony arts and culture component; we're working closely with Bruce
come back in fall, details etc
JF: maybe a WG, may be assistance out in the cmnty
Mayor: esp when combination; add that as a fourth, ref to WG
Sop: what is our portion of the budget? what's it going to cost?
JCh: to be worked out and choices for Ccl; from special events or grants budget
Sop: really supportive but open ticket -- what's the cost? any idea?
JCh: at a grant level of $5-10K, that wd be financial plus in-kind support
if Ccl chose, particular areas want to support
Sop: approval in 2008 budget; how assume what needed? as it comes along? what's our resp in the $500K
JCh: I expect we'll be working closely with our partners
expect in 2007, minimal support in budget in sp events; wd receive info in time
JC: wd like to point out to Cclr Sop that no 3 demands come back to Ccl; what I wd like to say, that over last couple of years since awarded there's been a lot negative, it's a two-week event -- this is an example, this is an event that cd happen year after year, I think in WV we need this sort of thing
Mayor: we are ready; we hired a Partnership Mgr to manage

{hm.  This is news.  Wonder if we'll find out more.}

we're being pushed to act
I've already been approached by sponsors; those sponsors have to fit in with our plan
agree with you Cclr Clark, time to get going
VV: from the way I read this, can vote in favour of this while not intending to put cash in
choice when xxx
not an impediment to supporting this
[Now Item 4:]
6.         Evelyn Drive Master Plan Approval (File:  1010?20?06?050)
[Sop always leaves for ED items b/c of conflict of interest]
RECOMMENDED: THAT The proposed Master Plan for Evelyn Drive be approved, subject to insertion of the revised sustainability section, illustrative site plans, and statistics contained in Appendix A, and design conditions detailed in Appendix C to the report from the Manager of Community Planning dated July 13, 2007.
G Boyle: three-part setup
first, architecture's design; secondly sustainability; staff re how measures up to bylaw
Nick Milkovich, architect, in front: 1-500Ksf of devt; it's steep enough for free-style skiing
natural setting, mature trees that have grown up
access to Pk Royal, zoning
three areas: minimize impact of devt on site, esp natural aspects; footprint is 31% coverage and that excludes paths through site, only 1.5% higher than sgl fam-lot ...
stepped housing; cluster housing; stepped terrace housing never more than two storeys above grade
cluster housing and apts integrate parking in lower edge, joint, minimizing impact of parking
ask Susan Wilkinson re environment, sustainability
SW: [slides] section in master plan that outline the goals and principles, commitment
exciting opp both for WV and Millennium, xxx
infill, smart growth, close to transportation
identified principles, measurable goals, used LEED rating system
three headings: sustainability LEED on concrete bldgs; use of LEED guidelines for sgl fam and townhomes.  Can't achieve on woodframe bldgs b/c no standards for them but using as many as possible
doing as much as possible to retain trees
revegetation 50% of site
potable water use, 30% reduction, rainwater harvesting; pedestrian linkage worked with District
energy efficiency goal, geothermal will be explored for this site, healthy indoor quality
local bldg materials
three categories of LEED: design (where we are now): construction (reusing); occupancy
don't apply till occupancy; working with staff, made changes to current version
transparent process; don't get certification till occupancy
Mike Kemble: coordinator of this project for the District
consistent with CD1 zone adopted Apr 2 this year
innovation and sustainability
provide comfortable bldg fit, mix of residential units as well as variety of sizes and rental, pathways (see Evelyn Walk on slide)
50ft grade diff between PkR and Ev Dr
attractive streetscape and public realm
expect West Coast character; natural as well as more contemporary materials
proposal consistent with zoning except for a few areas and will be dealt with at bldg permit phase
use, number of units, lot sizes, site coverages (slight overage but overall do meet)
ht, in upper area A, technically these bldgs wd be considered five to six storeys but b/c of low, within
bldgs not always parallel to prop lines
we support variances, site differences b/c of trees, low profiles of bldgs, etc
other connections up to Keith Rd and to Taylor Way and to west
will be improvements to Keith Rd, and tree plantings; new roundabout connection in newly configuration of Ev Dr
displays at Pk Royal, most supportive; some concern about traffic and that will be dealt with with 2008 traffic calming study
Design, two mtgs, supported; disability cmte supported walk as proposed
sensitive response to site; devt will provide a mix and variety that fit with terrain
strong and unique sense of place; staff recommend approval with ..... and design... in section C
JF: how long do you think it's going to take to complete?
Hank Jasper: think in booklet, two phases and each about two and a half years so five to seven years
JF: ?
HJ: phase one western, working west to east
Mayor: wrt report, page 4: re concrete will meet min of LEED
I'd like to see shooting for gold
SW: 69 points available, 26 certified, 33 silver, gold 39
have to get into more detail of design to know; we can min, decision is .....xxx  they decide
you cannot
aiming for certified level and aiming for more
Mayor: in conclusion, an adequate response to sustainability response, adequate?
Kemble: staff have asked for improvements, in your report; cd be higher, we acknowledge the dvpr is doing his best; clarify goals, some things not willing to admit
HJ: largest sust project in Canada right now except for Olympic Village....
able to start with base of 10 - 12 points in City; if we had that here no problem,  we've had to do xxx, but we don't know where we're going to end up not having completed design
RD: some suggestion add an amendment, subject to LEED goals?
Mayor: objective might give goal/push
JC: might give bit of guideline
VV: don't think we shd allow the so-called minor variance to front setback, 20ft to 10ft, 50% is not minor; don't know why we'd want to allow that sort of devt
wd like us to keep the 20ft setback, don't think wise so close on a slope
wd set a precedent and think ppl living in the houses wd appreciate
wd like to add phrase, maintaining 20ft setback along Keith
GBoyle, Planning staff: if go back 20ft whole way, one corner is less but other end more so adds some variety and that was intent
direction going in? you'll see that later on
Mayor: seconder?  no? then no amendment.
VV: appreciate twisted, only a corner, average, but sets a precedent
if 10%, or 2 or 3ft, might have been okay but 50% too much, will simply maintain my objection
JC: the LEED standard is the buzz word
[cell phone buzzed!]
HJ: you said buzz word!
JC: don't think ever been description, incentives for dvpr or just happy face at end of project?
GB: able to market at end
JC: selling tool
GB: yes; they come in and say meet it
the whole area of sust construction, nbrhds evolving v quickly
Olympic Village project is a pilot project -- new standard developing, more than emerging
JF: how pleased I am with this proposal, when you consider controversy around Ev Dr, and from outset; in fact we don't have a legion of residents voicing concerns
obviously devpr listened closely and to staff and have gone the distance
sensitive to those who retained their lots
think it's going to be a wonderful gateway; understand West Coast architecture beginnings of WV
think wonderful
RD: looking at model, notice some houses remain; six on one side and one other
to scale? apt bldgs built into slope, do the houses fit in?
HJ: to scale
GB: doesn't show detail
Ans: 2000sf, these 3-4K
RD: can't help but admire the architecture; lots of units fit into hillside and less impact than sgl fam dwellings; seem to fit better, nice touch; blend into hillside, proper colouring and trees; compliments
Mayor: Design Review Cmte enthusiastically endorsed this
happy to see Appendix C will xxx
stretch to the LEED
question about $350K
and a traffic circle further up Sentinel Hill; those residents have taken a great interest
GB: think I know area you're referring to; $350K to accommodate study and improvements
cd be one of the improvements
[This, as item 5, has been withdrawn:]
7.         Animal Control Bylaw 4208, 2000 Amendment Bylaw No. 4520, 2007 - Horseshoe Bay Park Dog Control Designation for receipt, then to third reading.
10:03am [Item 6 now]
8.         Sublease Modification - Sewell's Limited for receipt.
Mayor: wait for Cclr Sop to return
Item 7 now
9.         Revised Official Community Plan Amendment, Rezoning and Development Permit Application 07-015 (2388 and 2396 Marine Drive)
RECOMMENDED: THAT Staff complete a review of revised Development Application No. 07?015 after holding a Neighbourhood Consultation Meeting to solicit community comment on issues associated with the proposed Official Community Plan and Zoning Amendment for 2388 and 2396 Marine Drive.
Elaine Fonseca: Prez of ADRA; our Assn supports controlled grown; existing nbrhds; opposes upzoning
15 units on site; this is a duplex zone
more traffic, congestion; sets a precedent
feedback we get is preserve, limit density, ....; retain quiet quaint; protect
we feel too large a project in this area
Karl Gustavson: thank you for having us here; brief outline of what project about
based on feedback; reduced from 20 to 15 from three storeys to two, ...
also cons???
from 21Ksf to 17Ksf, reflects what cd be built under C1 and ....
not increase, a rearrangement
the key component what.... not what outside
local cmnty, v desirable of having elimination of commercial component, ...... lane
two excerpts from letters submitted: highlight my perspective
Robert Smith and ..... from Bellevue -- nbrhd concerns and wishes
share a residential lane, keeping comm vehicular traffic to min
C1 site wd allow commercial uses
OCP amendment we're looking for HC 3; site specific situations
H3 highlights certain items
devt minimal impact and obstruction of views
v lengthy and continual survey of view corridors
at second mtg we held, residents on Haywood concerned view blockage now none
H3 goes on to say separation, Mr Gremmet (sp?) lives next to lot will be turned into duplex and he's supportive b/c of elimination of commercial
lessen xxx
H3 goes on approp may include.....; know I'm always supporting adaptable bldgs
going to read another, 2372 MDr, Rebecca Buchanan: for us the devt means so much, means my dad will be able to live on one level in a suite for his needs, affordable and sustainable housing where I grew up and love so much
that's what H3 is for
summarize by saying process gone through; began as an all-commercial project; clear msg that came back was no commercial so I was engaged for residential, looked at live-work
mtg at Library 50 to 70 ppl came, and again no commercial, no view blockage, no traffic down lane; access to our parkade same as to C1 bldg but directed to 24th
.... wd have to come off lane
current restaurant off 24th but does not xxx
spoken to 55, not all, adjacent nbrs; majority with exception of two of the 55 v supportive of what we're wanting to do
asking Ccl; so we can demonstrate to you that this is the right project
RD: you said sq ftg wd be the same as if comm/resid
KG: true; if you include basement and garage, assume from est 17Ksf, my opinion
RD: supposing devt turned down and you had to build duplex on eastern and on restaurant site xxx
how many units on restaurant site?
KG: think we can get uh, haven't done analysis; probably ten units, eight to ten
RD: diff of three to five units
KG: small, HC amendment controversial but benefit here is great
speaker before me said wd set a precedent and no; only speaking about eliminating commercial otherwise wdn't be here; that can't happen
RD: any envtal advantages to sgl bldg rather than two bldgs?
KG: wrt sust, can do better with one; can be more economical, better efficiency with one bldg as opposed to two
[JC made motion]
VV: important to understand what HC 3 is
reiterating what wider cmnty wants; point of.... was to put wishes of wider cmnty
may not do what it describes.....
lays out conditions
H3 says, provide a degree of physical separation....[list]
check list, then can meet that test; if it fails that test then can't approve it
OCP is up for review for next Ccl; don't think we're legally entitled to do this
says it's up to whole cmnty not just those who live immediately around
voted against with 22 [units], now 15; can simply be rezoned to duplex and that wdn't contravene these xxx
did have an interesting complaint from a resident....  staff seemed to be advocacy
are staff reports supposed to be...objective critique; not bias?
SJN: staff reports options, can recommend
while H3; there is no sgl-fam nbrhd next to this; xxx
you're quite correct, Ccl is not to take an action against what's provided for in the OCP
there's some silence in the OCP what to do in this case
you cd actually change zoning xxx ; we don't recommend that
...permit area so can control design
..... consider residential area; consult with residents for example on Ottawa whether or not complies with bylaw; some in immed vicinity believe better
shd go out and xxx
VV: my reading of this, it does talk about multiple  Ev Dr, Clyde Ave.... still multiple-fam; that's where mentions natural separation
obviously I don't have the last word; I understand this to be wishes of wider cmnty
if change, has to be another round of OCP hearings and new OCP.
on basis of what's in front of me I can't agree this...... but cd change comm to resid
JF: wd like to commend the applicant; example of an applicant that has more than followed...... applicant has made ev effort to speak.. xxx
changes on sev occasions, completely revamping
next step is for staff to hold ....... before coming to Ccl to xxx
fully support holding mtg; bring up concerns brought up by Cclr V
look forward to Ccl discussion and debate
am familiar with OCP, guidelines, designed to be flexible
prev OCP had 30+ amendments; Ccls amend OCPs to meet needs in cmnty
identified need for smaller, more accessible accommodation
so those of us who live in large houses can ......
now faced with conundrum, imp to keep in mind as proceed
JC: been made abundantly clear over the years; the broad nbrhd not pleased with bldgs on these two sites
clear over last few weeks, not particularly enthralled with replacing the comm on this site
whether this proposal the answer, I'm not sure, but we have the opp through Mr Gust and client, opp to replace with something better
this motion requires staff -- through process of holding a nbrhd mtg, not nec just one
ev man woman and child in WV, anybody who drives by it
think this is exactly what the OCP had in mind; creating a facility for ppl to get together and express
RD: think we shd go to nbrhd mtg; verify what Mr G says through mtgs
get last OCP in shape
intention was to protect nbrhds; duplex zoning is a form of multiple fam already
extension of Dund itself; across the street is two-storey comm
this devt is absolutely consistent with Dund nbrhd
Mr G has made contributions too -- putting in coffee shop
think there's an advantage to a sgl bldg, doesn't really increase the density
ten as opposed to 15, given superior bldg; think we shd go ahead
what cmnty wants, be v careful; protection of sgl fam nbrhds but perfectly acceptable mixed comm/resid
still involves some units -- live/work; so some element; shd move ahead
Sop: amazing how we can stickhandle our ways through
H3.... now; will have some interpretation of what it all means to us
in position RT1 shd be compromised into multi-fam
sq ftg not much diff from what was before us before
talked to ppl, sets a precedent; it's not sgl fam
cd build duplexes on site; three or six duplexes
not in support of going any further
know it can go to mtgs, take its own way
don't like the change in that area, won't support it
VV: back to point OCP bylaw, that was a xxx
it's a senior level of govt, takes five cclrs [to pass]
a M decision cannot be inconsistent or in conflict with [the OCP]
must be clear ...; not make xxx
JF: I have great respect for the OCP
had not been ratified, but I remember six mbrs of Ccl voted in favour of OCP, Cclr Sop did not that's his prerogative
Six did approve it xxx
simply discussing whether or not broader cmnty to meet with staff and have discussion
RD: restaurant is not duplex-zoned; change restaurant zoning; it's one duplex site
if turned down duplex on east side and some sort of commercial on west; cd be worse
no advantage to existing zoning I can see
duplex is mutlifam; Design has no xxx
not that we're endangering sgl-fam zone, contrary we're strengthening; where are ppl going to live
Ms Scholes, can two block this?
SSch: it's a majority; formerly was two thirds but now majority of cclrs, not just those present
RD: if all there?
SSch: wd require four
Sop: not my job to tell devpr what to put there
[JF burst of laughter]
Sop: glad you find that humorous
ratified OCP but not housing part
have left it with one, two, or three housing policies; Cclr Clark is now in that stage, look forward with great interest what's going to come out of that WG
if we take an area that has a certain character and suddenly asked to look at a multifam, think it's going to have a direct effect on that nbrhd
not supporting it
look at C1 zone, we shd tell dvpr to put there, he has to come back to us
JC: pt of order, this recommendation does not consider any amendments to OCP
authorizes staff to go out to cmnty and have a coffee party and ask what xxx
off, not.... amending for crying out loud
Mayor: at present eyesore; working with Cclr JF, SJN
point was to provide..... protection, b/c of TZ; been dead for seven years
on arterial road xxx
we all purport to hv spoken for nbrhd and believe we all have
... v best way we can do this is to send out to nbrhd; my hope is it succeeds
... here are steps we have to go through
first and foremost is xxx ; assume happen in Sept
RD: reason I asked about vote was that at one time two votes wd hv bn enough to defeat so then no point to proceed but now changed
Mayor: Item 9, no I mean 8
10.       Development Permit Application 06?015 for a [Two-Lot] Subdivision at 4249 Rockbank Place
RECOMMENDED: THAT the report dated July 12, 2007 from the Manager, Community Planning regarding Development Permit (Difficult Terrain) Application 06-015 which would provide for a [two-lot] subdivision at 4249 Rockbank Place be received for consideration on Monday September 10, 2007.
Mayor: has been a tricky one
GB: yes, Sept 10 will hear from applicant and nbrhd; been some minor changes since applic came in
imp all hv opp to come to [provide points of view]
Mayor: Item no 9
11.       Process for Consideration of an Equestrian Centre (File:  1020?01)
RECOMMENDED: THAT the report dated July 17, 2007 from the Director of Planning, Lands and Permits titled "Process for Consideration of an Equestrian Centre" be received.
SJN: Ccl asked us to report back to us; eight to nine acres, formerly 26
proponent has identified a number of sites
far more complex below the 1200ft level; there are areas above useful, land has not been acquired and that has not been intended
site in Rodgers Crk area, never contemplated
question is whether can be brought up in discussion of Rodgers Crk; said that staff will be considering overall uses
may consider the equestrian aspect of that xxx but re lands to west wd require envtal studies
if a parcel comes up above the 1200ft level we cd be bringing that forward to Ccl
Ccl owns land well above the 1200ft level except for one park site, Allan Crk
dealing with private lands to be acquired or M; wd be a process for that
proponent modest cost
normal process wd be for Ccl to decide what sort of eq ctr and then put out for proposals, not deal with one proponent
..... natural parks, mtn bikes
Mayor: ?
VV: one or two questions
NV has an equestrian ctr and has had it for several decades; seven or eight acres and as a private enterprise
researched that?
apply to NV then to us; any legal reason we can't do it that way?
SJN: can; we do deal with public land: tennis club, lawn bowling club, Hollyburn Sailing Club
we define the needs then put them out to bid
those types of tools av; what wd not be permitted wd be for the M to provide land to a for-profit xxx that is aiding
VV: then how can NV do that, a family biz?
SJN: they wd be negotiating for commercial/market value
we do as with a concession stand
what renewal wd be
we cd acquire land and then advertise for bids
VV: other thing I'm curious about, that no one is really available to work on this
waiting for the best part of another year for staff to be av to work on this
SJN: staff will never have time to do envtal studies, devpr does that -- millions$
other parcels, acquiring
either going to pay market; Ccl wd be subsidizing use, IOW xxx {taxpayers' money?}
if land outside of area devt lands, cd be a private proponent cd do studies; they are expensive
the only example I cd think of of that was a golf course; they spent hundreds of thousands of dollars and M was sued
not something go into easily

{POINT OF ORDER: not quite.
The difference was that it was the District itself that proposed a golf course and then asked for bids to provide one.  They had a cmte and did choose one.
Little snag.
Turns out it was on park land that cd only be removed from park land with a referendum.  The referendum turned that down.
Readers are astute enough to realize not just that the instigation was DWV not a private operator so it's a different situation/responsibility, but also that perhaps DWV ought to have gone to referendum before asking for golf course applications.
I was on Ccl then and it was residents who informed me that a referendum was needed.
Yes, you read correctly.  Residents.  Not the Mayor, not some other members of Ccl (others besides me were not informed), and in particular, not staff come to think of it, who must have known.
Ah, yes, Minister.  (for those familiar with the BBC)
BTW, does that remind you of staff not telling Ccl the Collingwood zoning bylaw was not being complied with?
Yes. Yes.  The Power of Staff.
Information is Power.
So is withholding it.}

VV: think I understand can't say we want that piece without.....
considerable by applicant and parks ppl, surveyors
exercise of finding land suitable pretty well concluded; area next to Hydro substation
looked at OCP, dotted in new parks one right north of 25 acres.... 30 acres
not expecting to buy them
SJN: anticipated wd... buy... identified by Heinz Berger in the 1980s, went around finding flat land
then ICOS report identifying parcels
subsequently found extensive wetlands.
except for Cypress Falls Park
do intend to..... DCCs to purchase, from BPP
site 1 to be acquired for combined park and primary sch site
next to xxx is a sensitive area, the area in and around Hydro more suitable
area up by third switchback
priv ownership
acq some by transfer of density, some from purchase, well exceeds 5% park dedication
VV: point then, small amendment
most suitable location enormous amt to recommend it
the owner has already submitted plan, where devt and shops are
so rudiments in place b/c immed to South, Hydro substation and ROW so not much flexibility
then xxx
other sides schools worksyard, the Cypress Falls, and xxx
Mayor: we're talking about receiving the report
VV: just talking to amendment
Mayor: will come back
VV: and xxx
our OCP shows park in same location
have offered to preserve wetland... so if we reconfigure..... and acquire instead... looks like a win-win
must hv bn studies for Hydro, so feel we're tantalizingly close to a win-win, as part of park anyway
looking for 12 to 15 acres anyway; wd only hv to acquire a component
not just receive report, but staff neg with landowner
make ev reasonable effort to neg for those lands so we don't just stall on something that looks ev bit as advantageous as the skiing
looks to me like an win-win; better b/c our plan cashed with theirs
Mayor: Cclr F put motion on floor
JF: did
Sop: I'm waiting for Cclr V's amendment
Mayor: report is a big step
also clear timing is 2008/9 given our priorities; Rodgers Crk WG is what we have to follow through on
as we move west, anticipate incredible interest in shaping, must be careful about moving too fast but can keep this as a priority
need to pass xxx and xxx
VV: move staff be directed to make ev reasonable effort wrt RCrk approval, will give same name -- priv land by Hydro substation adjacent to Cypress Crk; shd say acres or?
Sop: second
JF: wrt reasonable effort, what does that mean? explore opportunities wd be better
not just say we want this land and just for an equ ctr
also other groups looking for areas; particularly mtn bikers, xxx, xxx
hate to see one rec group in opposition with another
wondering what 'reasonable effort' wd entail
Sop: I don't think the idea or dream of eq ctr shd go away b/c we don't have immed plans
possibility of looking at areas; work in concert with what Cclr Day's doing
talk about recreation; right in sense don't want to see competing
opportunity for this mtn top not been defined: looking at skiing, hiking; shd also be consideration of an eq ctr; not nec competing, cd be joint effort
number of ppl who will visit in next three to four years, natural fit
can't just let it go b/c we can't see land just now
idea Cclr V has, take a look and see where future lands
certain requirements, in vastness, can't see why not some site, even if smaller
just don't think it shd go away at this time, just b/c in report nothing available
maybe eq ctr for BC Parks
will support amendment
RB, DoAS: remind Ccl two components, workplan and integration of other recreational uses
understand amendment to a specific
if possibility .... if rec priority, it be amended to staff take into consideration looking at alternate sites over short period of time
have identified other areas, those are two imp points Ccl are considering and will impact staff resources
SJN: my understanding, work, acquire a site, not a specific site
VV: I did name that site b/c that's the first choice and everything else wd be a compromise to run it successfully
really make a try
what do we really mean, every reasonable effort; test to see if staff worth their salt
may be back and forth with landowner, but shdn't be left hanging a year from now
JF: then I'd suggest a subseq amendment, in context with other rec uses
we do have a number of rec uses already on our list
this may be a latecomer not reason not to, but need to find best sites for all rec
who gets what, need to study in context and not singularly
Mayor: that implies a bigger picture and Cclr V's is focused
from my point of view none of this makes sense without Amenity Policy
best way to go is get that Public Amenity policy back here xxx
see way going west
V going is separate to this report
right now question of amendment
JC: in view of Cclr V's remarks withdrawing seconding
SSch: can withdraw, but can also vote against
Sop: second
Mayor seeing vote on amendment: fails
on motion: carries with Sop opposed
JF: my preference to come back in fall
Ccl is prepared to take a look at potential somewhere in WV, do in context of rec and land use
come back with a notion
putting something together
SJN: there will be an amenity package in association with RCrk, Ccl can assess it
Sop: wonder what we're coming back with
supporting if if if
going to be a long time; need work
looking at space now? will endeavour? say that's a geat idea? let's be positive
Mayor: we also know a priv company from BPP interested in an eq ctr
says interested so open; doors open
first and foremost is Cmnty Amenity policy
begun now, moving on
Mayor: items here to new 15, 16
Sop: wd like to speak on 14 16 18 25 26 in Correspondence {to do with 2484 Ottawa and the Gibbs family}
12.      Consent Agenda Items - Reports and Correspondence
13.       Development Applications Status List received for information
14.       Development Variance Permit Application 07?019 (4343 Erwin Drive)             RECOMMENDED: THAT the report dated July 10, 2007, be received for consideration on Monday, September 10, 2007.
15.  CORRESPONDENCE LIST FOR CONSENT AGENDA [listed in prev issue; those removed from consent here]
(14)     J. & L. Gibbs, July 12, 2007, regarding Development at 2584 Ottawa Avenue (=B1 11 Names, No Signatures)
{Linguistic note and I have written correctly what some ppl said even though they did not pronounce the possessive or the plural properly.  The family name is Gibbs, so it's Mr Gibbs's house.  The family therefore is referred to as the Gibbses, and the Gibbses' house.}
Jann Gibbs: group and what has happened
originally a personal request to help us negotiate with a nbr has now evolved to a huge nbrhd outcry
worried about my rights
concerned about character and nbrhd, particularly Dund
ppl concerned losing their rights; feeling like victims in their own cmnty
want to look at what problems are
we have had public involvement
what is happening in Dund is happening elsewhere, being altered, changed
replaced with larger homes
consultative process not happening; if so, this wd not be happening
know builders building to code, maybe unaware or insensitive to needs of cmnty
as a cmnty not against dvpr, feel they can enhance cmnty, can design and build
not against, want to work with them
nbrs knocking on our doors, we want to help you; letter sent with 30 sigs
as started to evolve, the cmnty wanted to get together
mtg at our home, 23 attended, Sop first to arrive and last to leave; Cclr Mike Smith was also there
a microcosm of Upper Dund
2500 and 2600 block Ottawa looking at what is happening
nbrs who attended love Dund, old, small homes
worried changes happening so fast may be irreversible
all spoke, Cclr Sop listened to everybody
42 recommendations evolved from that mtg
a group of ppl not only wanting to complain but saying I'll work to make a change in this area.  One noted that on Bowen, Hood Point had an amendment made to bylaws that wd provide for more descriptive {guidelines?} in that area and more consultation so can't build without consulting with nbrhd
something you or we cd look into it
had a lot of professional ppl; nbrs who were architects and designers, looked at house next to you think something might be wrong
look into that
now four architects kind of looking into this issue
a second issue came out of this; petition also outcome from this mtg
nbrhd's fear of ..... objection to what is happening, reiterating need for consultation; 18 sigs
we're novices, this was not written legally, just to reflect what nbrs said
wd like you as Ccl to be part of solution, help us
do whatever it takes
given the xxx
issues are collaboration and consultation
if you need to hire extra staff, do that
be a stronger leader, I'm going to make a difference
do support your [initiative] Mayor, nine nbrs
{reference to having to contact nine nbrs in NV, done when Mayor was cclr there}
like to urge you to be even stronger in your role; prove to cclrs needed and needed immed
we need your help
ordinary citizens don't know what to do
in Dund wd like you to consider possibly what Bowen has done
help us to communicate and xxx with builder next to us
that wd start process right now
what can you do to support us now?
what do you recommend we do to start the process?
what is it you can do to help us?
Mayor: have you provided us with the 42 recommendations
JG: draft, being drawn up, couple of days
Mayor: when ready appreciate; will listen then to Ccl
Lock Gibbs: cmnty mbrs and myself concerned bylaws not being applied as written
in 1980s reduced from .45 FAR to .35

{Yes.  1989.  One of my proud moments on Ccl, responding to residents' rejection of 'monster' homes.  Cclr Day also voted for the reduction.}

inspection dept has excluded covered decks
understand it is an application, results in larger than [intended FAR limit]
the bldg as a result, able to build quite a large house, mass
we had an artesian well of emotions; not just a few ppl speaking in the dark
no idea so much support in a two-week period
negative impact of large houses....
really care; whole lot of new friends; result v positive, we're bringing Upper Dund together
situation in our case, see picture, see footprint of new building: our house built high on lot, this house 80ft in length, this is the wall going up blocking view
say we sold house 15 years from now, presumably cd build higher, and right down to south
have a case of a house building further down lot
nbr competing against nbr, whoever builds last is the winner
here are satellite pictures from the DWV website: here's our house, here's picture of old house, looking down lot; these are new devts
see line there, you see this devt quite further down the lot [straight......]
concern about one person getting better view, having advantage over before
here's view we had [photo]; from looking at design from Planning Dept, will look like that [blocked]
can see a bit of Stanley Park, before we cd see Stanley Park. ....... and over to mtn
we object to house extending so far south; if we sell, next will build even further south
difficulty getting info from Bldg Dept
Lewis Morris, lives across street, went to Hall and asked for info and told had to put in writing and [said?] that I was nbr; as soon as discovered objection, seemed to xxx
opposite to here, when we come staff helpful; situation with devpr and .... that area
talked to other ppl, much more broadly
retired, 65 years old; engr make a decision defend to end
cultural approach, feel has to be examined
here's photo after excavation
this devpr, and when Lewis mentioned this, staff said wd hv to stop
devpr continued to 2:30, rock flew over fence
at 4pm I went to xxx, even though red card was given unfair to stop work at that moment
we thought this was xxx
we really want the feeling of being supported and our concerns treated with respect
devpr has moved slightly and think has reduced by 3ft, not 10ft rather than 14ft
but really awkward for us
we know how to express ourselves but a vast majority don't want to come forward
consultation with ev
know it's a small devt but feel it's important in Dund, sgl-fam homes and suites for inlaws
if required to talk with surrounding nbrs at least some impact, more diff to plough ahead
this is a key thing
how much discretion shd Planning have as to what's included and excluded?
recognize have to work within bylaws
unable to verify bylaws have been enforced as intended
unable to have satisfaction
feel something about privacy of info
Lewis Morris is a design consultant, has taught architecture at three universities, currently designing something in France, he'll speak about the elevations
we found a diff set might be more
and we have one more picture
LM: thx; currently doing a small house in southern France, Denmark, England, seven provs in Canada
at design end, not drawings and specifications
one of the first things an architectural student shd learn is to be aware of what's on either side, vernacular of area; in school if you didn't do that you wdn't pass
when I moved to Dund 22 years ago, I met nbrs v quickly, first cpl of days they came down
heard I as renovating, made suggestions; still friends today
Dund was different, change inevitable; high street with restaurants, food stores, Beach House
beach, pier modest; lot of ppl want to live here, I did 22 years ago
become more difficult
25% of the lots in our area gone to new houses, most to dvprs
when priv indivs second off Nelson, did build deck but 45 degree angle so guy next cd see past
had to have been dialogue, concern with view of other guy
know it did exist years ago but xxx
if you don't get approval of next door nbr in south of France doesn't go ahead
in NAm, don't think need xxx
it's a positive
Lock and Jann Gibbs have tried to dialogue with devpr, nothing other than token reduction of a few feet
other side lower deck covered by ....... over, big deck
hv seen some huge decks, met with Bill Sop and SJN: bulk of houses in Dund too big
even with exceptions, still can do positive things
we're talking about height of structure, not just bulk
have elevation on Lock's lot; established pins on other side so not a stretch to see what natural grade was before built
Lock showed pictures
prev house had large retaining walls showing grade
from our observation of site plan in Planning Dept, and our examination in detail to est av grade, that the levels were taken off the elevation of the patios of the prev house
thought the defence wd be can't est prev grade but with .... established, you can .... grade
you can establish what the natural grade was at that point
the planner said he did take that into consideration
we looked and we cd see what had been done, done on elevated patios
cd say complicated but it works to establish what allowable height of bldg can be but it's critical
maxed out, with all the exceptions to bylaw; objects to dbl garage and basement for most part excluded
It's still too high; I recommended to Lock that you put a hold on this permit until the natural average grade, can get an assessment, agreement on this.
Mayor: not trying to cut you off; vital to Ccl
have two more mbrs to speak; Ccl to speak; just looking at time, last mtg running up against
LM: just finishing a couple of houses on the east coast of Canada
you have to talk to nbrs; discuss; make a real positive attempt to listen to concerns and do something about it
shd try to leave a smaller footprint
we have to dialogue more; small picture but big
Mayor: do you want Mr Bowen?
LG: was here Monday, here this morning but had to leave for a medical apptmt
he's left me written comments; he is an architect
value of land,  occupancy, character of land, ..... prop values
I suggest dvprs pushing the envelope without due...
... Building Dept is not enforcing the bylaw
includes buildings...... decks, shd be
highest, est of grades at bldg perimeter
shall comply with
no 2 bylaw 3774; wch areas excluded from FAR other than ........
do not include open or partially enclosed
no 3 av natural grade; shd be determined all undisturbed soil on site and adjoining
av finished grade excluding....
my greatest concern is that the Building Dept does not allow viewing of plans and xxx
interpretations of the bylaws
make corrections during .... phases
once concrete poured, mistakes apparent, v expensive to correct, compensate, xxx
I suggest the review process shd be more transparent
Elaine Fonseca: thank you for opp of speaking to this issue
I am in a similar situation but not to the extent the Gibbses are
a lot taking down and xxx
we might not own our views but we pay for them; assessment, taxes
I was invited to the mtg at the Gibbses; extraordinary devt
our ratepayer assn supports ..... and residents' rights
we have a moratorium to preserve our views and  xxx
at Capilano Highlands, we know you Madam Mayor,  xxx???
if they can do it on Bowen where I also [have property] ....
it's time WV does the same
lots of nbrs like the Gibbses, and their rights are being trampled on
Mayor: start with Mr Nicholls, we've gone back and forth
SJN: been going in same direction
Mayor: slow
SJN: one is legalities of entire situation
know in my xxx  with Mr Morris, xxx
there's a FOI issue, but we hv done
still with 25ft but do agree cannot establish use xxx
will certainly have a look at that
been involved with a number of areas, most recent Clovelly Caulfeild
normally a group of nbrs start and then diff of opinion
ask wd you like to have a say about building next door to you, 100%
ask wd you like ppl next door to tell you what you can do -- no prob talking
comes up when severely affected like the Gibbses
that's where debate
second is rewriting the zoning bylaw, have rewritten it three times in past 20 years including reducing .35
whatever it is, not special for mine, make for all
general is too big, change FAR and exclusions
will affect my prop value, xxx about selling
can do it again
certain things happening in certain nbrhds
diff between buying home as an investment vs I can't afford to do that or I've lived here and v concerned about around me and don't want building around me too large affecting street
third one more diff from my
Hood Point is a priv devt; they have a say, cd be the Point Assn affects those plans
if Ccl passing..... then into a big debate
ev has somewhat diff opinions, not modifying, big
when you put a moratorium on, nbrs say go ahead, others oppose, puts Ccl smack in middle
no guidelines
not something we recommend do easily
nbrhd planning issues is something we intend to do this fall
don't believe it helps the Gibbses
meaningful discussion with ppl next door
they don't need a study of bylaws in WV, xxx to a situation??
Sop: it was an interesting exercise; met Gibbses; here's a couple realizing a westerly south view completely blocked
{I think the house they're talking about is actually east of the Gibbses' house.}
bylaws support builder can do that and you have same right but been point out last kick at can can do what want
at least a dialogue, wasn't a no and don't build but if you can communicate, stories with great results, on that street have bn
one question I wd ask Mr N: if mass of house has been interpreted, such as covering of decks bring new massing, where have we seen this?
seen proliferation of peaked roofs over decks
SJN: this is the height calc, not FAR; the interpretation, a word we use; do it so consistent
know what answer we give until somebody argues
{oh, great process; really is squeaky wheel getting grease.  What if you're out of town???}
do we go to exterior of roof or building, and bylaw says both
may be original exterior
if that had been a reason for disadvantage
did, and it's not over 25 ft
that's interpretation and
now Mr Morris may say where you're measuring from is wrong, and we'll look at that
{why not standardized? ripe for sweet deals!}
Sop: if mass affects nbrhd, isn't it maybe a consideration a rewrite of laws?
when you say interpretation, interpretation today of bylaw, why didn't this massing show up five years ago
look at
SJN: wdn't say interpretation change
seen a few, may be new design
whether house too large or not, not new
been specific, these parts included, these not
{right; be specific}
others saying
not interpretation, just what you include and what you do not
in late 70s early 80s prices going up, put controls
question was what did WV consider too large
more recently, maybe Mr Morris can comment on this b/c he's a builder as well
amt of money ppl willing to put into building didn't think of it, house construction now continues out to street and brought up in Lower Caulfeild
not an interpretation of bylaw, it's what ppl are doing xxx
amt in Amb and Dund, Mathers and Altamont, extraordinary
over $200M worth of devt
JF: every nbrhd
real reduction in their qualify of life
don't hear ppl speaking about against change but being done at expense of surrounding nbrs
don't know what we can do to change that
my hope is that with the Housing Dialogue will come back with some suggestions
v imp that happen
in last 20 years seen ppl maximizing what can be done on prop b/c of $$$
hope see a turnaround
can see highly valued residents, benefits of being smaller, greener
that's where we can lead
housing character and ppl who live around them
been so long getting to Housing Dialogue, not fast enough, sincerely want to
need some assurance from Bldg Dept being as transparent as possible
sure [abuse?]
xxx compliance with bylaws so that understanding can be controlled, and that we're attending to biz of the cmnty
v difficult in this cmnty ev site in this cmnty v different
interesting exercise rewriting zoning
VV: find it interesting and ironic, presentation on ED saying how much smaller
RD: to scale?
yet v close by, houses that are modest
standing by while monster houses, xxx
don't seem to have our act together
[monsterization?] in Amb and Dund and new small scale ecofriendly
why not retain the small nbrhds we have?
excellent that Mr N is rewriting the bylaw, but why not two sets
trouble coming from redevt
in Upper Lands, pretty well settled 3K on 10K
if they don't build within two years, can buy back
so can't bulldoze, blasting
can we not have a code?
not allow
ppl have to be able to blast, blast away have a ball, but xxx
once nbrhd character established..... we shd be quality control
we shd be guarantor of quality
wd like to see some; may be difficult
JC: apologize for not attending
but it was [same time as] the cmte on housing dialogue; that cmte working diligently
feel that they will come up with a series of recommendations but that won't be for about a year
I think, personally, shd be looking, agree stewards of cmnty, same rules at same time
except in situation like Clovelly when come together and agree with
been talking re Clovelly probly two years
wd be interesting to consider moratorium on some sort of, really don't know, any new teardown, wd require some sort of permission to extend beyond existing footprint
{good idea, John!}
had that some years ago but didn't go v far
you were, Mdm Mayor, involved in NV; maybe cd apply it in some form here; incumbent on us to try
can't help you Mr Gibbs unless you get a mirror on that wall
favour of some sort
RD: complicated question
first ran in 1980s b/c upset what happening in nbrhds
still same xxx
made efforts; passed three provisions, tightening; we have more restrictive legislation than any in western Canada...
created Lower Caulfeild Conservation zone
has helped, not been perfect; xxx
LCC zone still looks good, not as good as when I moved here 40 years ago
Clovelly, Caulfeild, Piccadilly v large houses, excessive blasting
set up an Assn, they came up with v good proposals, blasting, etc, declare DP area wch wd hv given Ccl more [control?]
all of a sudden opposition b/c wd lower prop values....xxx
on hold now
not that we're not willing to do anything
not failure b/c will get some reforms but it was a setback
with three bylaw revisions, shot down by a lot of opposition
if we declare the whole of M a DP area, cdn't do that, haven't staff or Ccl time
our nbrhd WG is going to be faced with a lot of challenges; year and a half, wd like faster
surprised, devastation going from east to west
nbrhd with views, build as high as can for
go down with no views, lower
higher, xxx
linked to certain areas; Altamont doesn't look quite as bad; want to see something done, not certain what; your input is welcome
if your org,  [can get together???]
some sort of devastation
can't use monster houses any more, mansions, bad taste for nbrds; know we can't control taste
SJN: before, looking at bylaws, don't believe blasting, soil removal; not Housing WG
other groups, nbrhd workshops, expect to begin this fall
don't think we're talking about a timetable a year or two
what nbrhd group come up with, broader
RD: what kind of bylaws? reducing FAR? sideyards?
SJN:  look at issues come to Ccl with them
cd be dealing with FAR, amt of blasting in that area
diff for diff areas; diff for smaller lots than larger lots; may vary in areas
JF (since well after noon): am cognizant of the time
while we may not be able to make anything magical happen today
maybe staff ... Sept... that we expect a builder prior to bldg permit to have engaged in conversation in a prescribed area
at least to have made an effort
those builders might just be swayed into doing what's right, before beyond stage cost too much
Mayor: moral suasion
.... done quite a good job of articulating the problem
creating a culture, that's an easy step; will be some respond to that
next, what is required, what must you do
wonder if your WG teams, subgroups
JC: have them
Mayor:  ... digging into the nbrhds
certainly in Edgemont, difficult, .....yes, are, but when lifted prop values really increased
...tapped into before, it isn't easy
we have Planning Dept's commitment to look into this devt
know that the nbrs are going to be able to view these
know Ccl wd .....?? ...  design .. all those objectives
it's getting on, I've got a mtg at 1 o'clock and we've got ppl for PQP; shd we refer this to your WG?
JC: yes
Mayor: and you're welcome to attend those WG mtgs
RD: think something stronger, such as expresses sympathy, looks forward to revision
WG.  .....  take into account
JF: a motion? I'll second
RD: expression
Mayor: go with this material
Sop: I understand what Cclr Day is saying
grassroots starting: Upper Dund Assn growing
also told them they cd sit and watch what's going on in Housing WG
too late??????
challenge that
...xxx ...  what we saw that
we all sat there b/c v interesting subject
it behooves me; as Cclr Day says, when it comes down to in your face, we haven't done enough
RD: what we just passed sends a msg
maybe it will send a msg to this devpr
that day may be coming to an end, they'd better be listening
Mayor: I have someone speaking on another matter
Fulvio Verdicchio: the reason for my speaking today
Ev Dr moving along, it's a good thing, keep a good thing going, but missing some we can achieve
[Sop left as required for this issue]
in March spoke with Geri Boyle about undergrounding and said she wd get a [quotation]
spoke to Mr Kemball, still waiting for numbers from BC Hydro
right now phenomenal, a lot cheaper working now, really give this devt the look of an exclusive devt
why leave those wires, poles, for 60 years on Keith Rd
SJN: I do know we've requested info
FV: we're going to lose the opportunity; wch is why important, give direction to Planning Dept
Mayor: that's what they're doing I believe
FV: if wait longer, come and gone
SJN: we haven't waited
RD: we're trying
SJN: we're getting the info out, but I understand the time to act is before you begin construction.
FV: thank you
Mayor: Item 14, Reports; I've reversed Public Questions and Comments b/c I wanted to move through that list.  Reports.

RD: Concession's open at Dundarave... Sunshine came yesterday; hamburgers are excellent.

VV: Fam Court and Justice; why has WV received but not adopted?
last year two NVs have adopted but not WV hope wd be adopted before
SSch: followed up, did adopt in Sept 2006 and did convey that
VV: obviously issue that has been confused in that cmte .....
Mayor: before close, wish everyone a well-earned break, and I'm coming to PQP
hv had ambitious, ambitious legislative agenda; doing well
when reconvene will see we're probably two thirds of the way through to what we wanted to accomplish; think we've just had a little bit of an introduction to what next year looks like, around housing and nbrhd character

JF: see you at Harmony Arts

Mayor: absolutely -- and RoyalTea on Saturday 2 - 4

Mayor: Now, Public Questions and Comments, and Juanita Tupper has been waiting patiently.
{for complete information, below is her presentation/text, then January letter followed by June letter as emailed to me}
Juanita Tupper -- 16th Street.
See my letter of June 28 to Mayor and Council, signed by 34 residents/neighbours. (agenda item 13 (1))
On a rainy January 1 night - water overflowed and blocked too small culvert on Vinson Creek, at Kings & 17th ("the alley from Inglewood up to West Van High and Kay Meek").
        - it rushed down 17th (the alley) hitting the West Van High South Campus
        - east along Inglewood
        - down 16th - east on Haywood
        - down 16th to Fulton.
It rushed into homes, via driveways and across lawns .
Public Works was called twice; then Fire & Rescue, whose truck sat at 16th & Haywood over two hours (12- 2 am). It  did not alert sleeping residents, resulting in much greater water damage to homes.
Disabled residents at 16th and Gordon had to be evacuated and re-located for 3 months.
Total damage: $250,000+ to 12 homes, the high school; many hours of hard work; and looming house insurance problems.
I  would rather spend time financially supporting flood aid in Bangladesh -- or even England right now -  than repairing my WV home.
It appears after [six months'] research, that this water event was preventable.  We wish "water damage prevention" could be as successful as "fire prevention" in West Van.
      - it need not happen again.
      - see our four recommendations in the letter - (1) culvert design and maintenance (2) enforcement of  dumping-in-creek bylaw  (3) street slope design  (4) clarification of communication procedures, with and between, PW and F&R during emergencies.
By the way, I am here because my initial Jan 18 letter to the Mayor resulted in a reply from the Director of Engineering that was pleasant but defensive of the status quo.  It also reflected what I call the "silo effect" -- a lack of cross departmental planning and communication, e.g. bylaws, risk management, creeks, environment, roads - and particularly Fire & Rescue. Even the Police.
I guess I just expect more of the highly expert staff we have in West Van. 
We need a more service-oriented, problem-solving culture.
Thank you - have a good sunny summer and -  hope I don't have to be back before Council in the rainy months!
>>> LETTER Jan 18
Re: Water Damage - 16th Street (Inglewood to Fulton), 1500-1600 Haywood, 1500 Gordon - night of January 1-2, 2007
Dear Mayor Pam,
Our home, and 11 or more other homes, were damaged by water on the night of January 1-2.
I have two major questions:
1. What actually happened and what exactly was the municipal response? For example, what did Fire and Rescue, Public Works and the Police do? (Between 11pm and 5am) And more specifically, what was done at the corner of 16th and Haywood between 11:45 pm and 3am?
2. What are the existing municipal policies, regulations, and procedures which guide the following matters:
   a) the alerting of inhabitants of a developing " water situation" in their yards and street.
   b) street re-paving and re-design of curbing (particularly in front of driveways) (summer =9106 on 16th Street)
   c) culvert design
   d) culvert maintenance
   e) culvert storm surveillance
   f) ditch depth and size of driveway/path culverts (ref: 951 - 16th Street)
   g) priority given to safety of inhabitants and private property
I would like to formally register a complaint with the municipality. I would like these issues raised in order that (1) all West Van residents fully understand the services/non-services we are paying for and that (2) changes might be made to the policies, regulations and procedures regarding the above issues to improve our services.
I would also like you to know that, ten long days after dealing with our household mess, I asked and got some information from Assistant Fire Chief Martin Ernst; and today, Director of Engineering and Transportation, Emil Barth, responded in some depth to my telephone questions of January 15. I thank them both -- but feel greater attention at your level is required to (1) prevent future situations and (2) provide a level of support to those affected the most (e.g. the Group Home at 1560 Gordon and several neighbours).
I will away from January 19 to approximately March 8,and I look forward to your reply upon my return.
With thanks - (I know these wind/rain/snow storms are very demanding!)-
Yours sincerely,
Juanita Tupper
c.c. Emil Barth, Director of Engineering and Transportation
c.c. Martin Ernst, Assistant Fire Chief, Fire and Rescue

>>> LETTER Jun 28

Dear Mayor and Council,

Re: $250,000(+) Flood Damage due to Overflow of Vinson Creek at Kings Avenue- January 2007
The purpose of this letter is to bring to your attention recommendations related to water management of Vinson Creek.
The recommendations are based on investigations by residents who experienced, in total, water damage in excess of $250,000 to their 12 homes when Vinson Creek overflowed at Kings Avenue on the night of January 1-2, 2007 The South Campus of West Vancouver Secondary School (WVSS) was also flooded. The homes affected are on 16th Street between Inglewood and Fulton and in the 1500 block of Haywood.
Our recommendations are:
        Redesign and improve maintenance of the Vinson Creek Culvert at Kings Ave.
        Ensure full enforcement of the "No Debris Dumping" By-law.
        Redesign 16th and Haywood Streets to provide proper protection from water.
        Clarify communication procedures pertaining to resident protection during emergency situations.
Our observations and recommendations are summarized below.
Redesign and Improve Maintenance of the Vinson Creek Culvert at Kings Ave.
The culvert at Vinson Creek and Kings Ave. (just east of WVSS)  was the location of the blockage which caused the flooding of 12 homes in Ambleside and the South Campus of WVSS at Inglewood on the night of January 1-2, 2007. There have been regular calls made to Public Works regarding culvert overflow at this same location over the past 15 or more years, as reported by the homeowners at 1595 Kings. In addition, the South Campus of WVSS has experienced flooding from this creek on previous occasions.
We note the damaged debris catchers, which were there in January, have recently been replaced with ones of questionable design. There still is only one main culvert and no overflow culvert. The distance from the creek bed to the road is only 50 inches (half that found at Lawson, Mathers, Ottawa, Gordon) which further enables frequent flooding.
(a) Undertake an independent engineering assessment. The purpose will be to analyze the distance from the creek bed to road level and determine whether to deepen the creek bed OR to make a dip in the road to direct excess water to flow south, across the road, and re-enter the creek bed. Alternatively, an overflow culvert must be incorporated into the redesign. The functionality of the current debris catchers must also be evaluated.
(b) Enhance Maintenance Schedule. Increased frequency of debris checks during the winter storm season is essential. Back up personnel from other departments must be utilized. The maintenance schedule should be publicized.
Ensure Full Enforcement of the No Debris Dumping By-law
Debris from storms, construction, and garden refuse contribute heavily (and regularly) to culvert blockage and subsequent failure. This has been noted at the Lawson Street dead end (one block west of 15th).  Bylaws exist but are not enforced.
(a) Publicize and enforce the existing bylaws on dumping onto creek banks and beds.
Redesign 16th & Haywood streets to Provide Proper Protection from water
16th St. (Fulton to Inglewood) was "resurfaced" in  2006. The street now slopes down to the East instead of to the West, where there is an existing ditch to absorb extra water flows. At this time, protective "dips" in front of driveways, on the east, were removed and replaced by a small ledge (about 1 inch high).  The flooding creek water, which rushed down 16th Street and east along Haywood, entered many homes via these new driveway entrances which are totally inadequate and, in fact, made the flooding worse. In May 2007, the 1500 block Haywood was resurfaced with no driveway curbing.
(a) Re-engineer 16th Street and Haywood, improving grade/slope, curb design, and ditches..
Clarify Communication Procedures Pertaining to Resident Protection during Emergency Situations
We have contacted more than 6 departments of West Vancouver District and Municipality and it appears there has been little communication between departments with regard to the January 1-2 flood caused by Vinson Creek.
On January 1, four members of West Vancouver Fire & Rescue (WV F&R) attended the flood site for over 2 hours (11:30 pm to 2:30 am) but did not knock on doors to alert residents of the water flow. This lack of notification substantially increased damage to property.  It is evident that the role of WV F&R in such circumstances is constrained by set operational procedures, which are unclear to citizens of the community and may not be in their best interests. 
Public Works worked with insufficient emergency communication and staffing.
ByLaw Enforcement, in the Administrative Division, is seems unable to prevent dumping.
Risk Management, in the Finance Division, took 70 days to respond to a letter regarding liability.
The Engineering and Transportation Division responded with only general information. A list of written questions addressed to the Mayor on January 18, 2007 was forwarded to staff but the responses did not acknowledge the seriousness of the matter nor the number of area residents affected.
Creek and culvert management are not organizationally related to road design, although water problems involve both. Similarly this is the case between Public Works and WV F&R Services. 
There is an overall shortage of inter-departmental communication and coordination.
Water/storm damage likely exceeds fire damage in West Vancouver and can be expected to continue to escalate given changing climate patterns. WV F&R has been successful in limiting fire damage (fire total $1.6 million in 2006; $400,000 in 2005).
If the January 1, 2007 "water event" were to reoccur in the future, it will be more costly and with greater problems from insurance agents.
(a) Increase the communication between the many separate specialist departments to deal with cross-departmental issues such as Water (Creek, Flood, Storm) Management.
(b) Clarify the responses and roles of Fire and Rescue and Public Works in all emergencies.
(c) Publicize updates on what citizens can expect of their local government in case of emergencies. e.g. regular inserts in the quarterly Utility invoice or Tidings in the North Shore News. (Websites are not available during power outages!) Topics of concern:
        Fallen Storm Debris
What are  Fire & Rescue able to do?   Not do (e.g. contact residents)?
Who to call when Public Works Emergency Line does not respond?
In conclusion, we the undersigned believe West Vancouver has the knowledge and expertise to take action to avoid a repetition of the flood damage our neighbourhood experienced in January 2007. Our observations are evidence of the serious potential for [recurrence] of flooding resulting in substantial property damage. We ask that our recommendations be acted on prior to the start of the next storm season (i.e. November 1, 2007).
Yours truly,
Name of Resident / Signature of Resident / Address of Resident  [Petition, 34 names]
Mayor: I have followed up; wd like Mr Fung to report on that to all Ccl
RF: fairly extreme storm event occurred in January
response involved Public Works as well as Fire and Police; Police followed up with own press release; illustrates extreme nature of situation
wrt letter, even after the incident happened
magnitude, staff did bit of debrief; together with risk mgmt worked with sch bd as to what approach to take
recommendation no 1 in letter is being followed up
redirect water, staff procedding on now; scheduled for week after long weekend
debris screens we do after signif storms
as opposed to fail-safe situation, no matter how much we try to clean things out, things can go wrong
redirect the water, what wd happen if debris screens get blocked; make its way back into creek again, feel wd address
wrt communication believe interdeptally can improve communication
Fire and Police have v rigid protocol they follow
Public Works staff have been taking more courses in Incident Command System Protocol and believe wd allow our staff to communicate with firmly laid down protocol F&P have and allow more synergies to occur
Juanita Tupper: they don't have ability to communicate by radio with Public Works
wd hope for kind of emergency procedures Police in WV now have, capacity...
just dumbfounded us; they were actually the ones who finally got in touch with Public Works, b/c we cdn't get them.  Amazing.
Mayor: you will follow through... work beginning this summer...  appreciate recommendations; think staff following up on most of them...  will you report that back to nbrhd?
JT: ...most anxious to hear and thx v much
Sop: when called by Tuppers; did walkabout in area, quite evident driveways no longer had formidable lip on it to prevent going into their driveways; ... whatever steps? to prevent if another flood?
RF: can look at further; redirect what flows back into creek first
look at what add'l protection need to provide; matter perhaps an asphalt curb cd be contemplated b/c road had just been done
{er, um; why if just done, not done with lip???|
wasn't any intention of redesigning that street, thought we'd take it one step at a time
if asphalt curb might do the trick, may follow up
Sop: to clarify are they going to? ea prop going to get asphalt curb?
RF: not investigated that; will look into that
RD: I live in that area; Lawson, Vinson Crk smaller to east, about 100m between the two
most of the time not aware of it, that night became a v big creek
we didn't get a flood on Lawson, but close to it
good job keeping the debris trap free over on Inglewood, but McDonald further west has a diversion channel, more effectively controlled that creek whereas whereas Lawson doesn't but it's just as big a creek or almost
urging you to take a look at Lawson as well as Vinson, a lot of ppl live on Lawson look at particularly possibility for a diversion channel; know been some plans for Lawson, never been done
RF: the diversion structure in place, from both Lawson and McD
provision in Whitby subdiv, not in place yet; plans in place and proceeding; so Lawson and McD taken care of
original plan was to have six creeks from Brothers to Rodgers
staff doing total review, given Rodgers Crk work, plan, to see what contribution to diversion structure; will be taken into consideration
taking into consideration Vinson and  Brothers as well
RD: Lawson, McDonald diversion in Whitby you said proceeding, has it begun?
RF: in some cases, all that remains for that system to be hooked up is an inlet (?) structure; pipe has been extended; that last little bit to go into the creek, remains to be constructed or made active
RD: you're doing it now?
RF: I'm aware of that project
RD: means you're doing it?
RF:  In fact, it's a devpr responsibility, written into the subdivision for BPP, part of the commitments BPP is following through on.
RD: they told me they were waiting on you, that was a few months ago, but you're on it
RF: when the drawings come through, and staff review them as appropriate.
Mayor: Thank you. Cclr Clark, motion to adjourn?
JC: I was going to move to extend the mtg till--
Mayor: Cclr Sop?
Sop (holding flyer): The RoyalTea..... Saturday 2 to 4
Mayor: Dundarave Beach
Sop: and info can be had at www.royaltea.ca or phone 922 4400.
Mayor: thank you
ADJOURNMENT {and thanks for the RoyalTea announcement}
...and that's all she wrote -- till September!
apologies for gaps, etc. I don't intend to play the tape to do a fuller transcript, but wd be grateful to anyone who is kind enough to send in the missing bits or provide further information.  It can then be put into the website version or cd be an "UPDATE" in the next issue.


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===  (more) BARD-KU  ===

                booms reverberate
                Caesar's presence dominates
                Brutus conflicted
                        and their deaths end his era   
                        with Antony ascendant

             Allan Morgan's face
             stone chiselled Caesar
                        reign or iron rule of Rome?

                Brutus pivotal
                        convinced, removes him --
                                then stabbed by Antony's words

[FYI: Allan Morgan plays Caesar; Scott Bellis plays Brutus; Craig Erickson plays Antony asking to be lent some ears; Katrina Dunn directed]

===  QUOTATIONS  ===

Nothing produces such odd results as trying to get even.
                        -- Franklin P. Jones

Conceal a flaw, and the world will imagine the worst.
                        -- Martial (Marcus Valerius Martialis)

Where is the wisdom we have lost in knowledge? Where is the knowledge we have lost in information?
                        -- T. S. Eliot (1888-1965)

Science is built with facts as a house is with stones--but a collection of facts is no more a science than a heap of stones is a house.
                        -- Jules Henri Poincare (1854-1912)

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.
                        -- Martin Luther King Jr.

He who dares not offend cannot be honest.
                        --Thomas Paine, philosopher and writer (1737-1809)

I get up every morning determined both to change the world and to have one hell of a good time. Sometimes this makes planning the day difficult.
                        -- E.B. White, writer (1899-1985)