Ccl NOTES Sept 17
AGENDA Sept 24
Calendar to Sept 30

by Carolanne Reynolds, Editor

=  MAIN ITEMS Ccl mtg Sept 24: DVPs for 1881 22nd and 6655 Madrona; Ambleside Town Ctr; Dog Control Bylaw; Lots of Correspondence!
=  Vive le Canada; (Glenn Gould, Cdn pianist extraordinaire); ANIMALWATCH (funny); UPDATES -- WV; WEBWATCH (serious); Calendar to Oct 4th
Mayor's Remarks at Swearing-In; Nbrhd Character (urging enforcement of bylaws re height/mass) by Dund Nbrhd Assn; ccl mtgs must end at 10pm?; Ambleside Town Ctr; Dog-Walking Enforcement/Regulations; Hugo Ray Pk; PQP Ccl reminded cmnty groups were to see draft citizen survey questions, Ccl urged to provide more info on present bldg FARs in Amb and to give direction to staff to interpret bylaws as intended to reduce mass and height in nbrhds.
=  Ccl AGENDA Sept 24; Language (World Punctuation Day; who at DWV still can't differentiate between nouns and verbs?; what's a kok-saghyz is? -- etymology as history); Politi-ku; Quotations
*** VIVE LE CANADA ... from Fuse at CBC:
...If you're a Glenn Gould fan, you'll know that the next couple of weeks are pretty important. September 25th is the 75th anniversary of his birth, and October 4th is the 25th anniversary of this great pianist and thinker's death. To celebrate, CBC Radio 2 is putting together ten days' worth of programming during that period, called Variations on Gould. You can find out all about it at cbc.ca/gould75.
Ottawa's contribution to this celebration is a special concert, to be recorded next Friday, September 28th at 7pm at the Museum of Civilization in Gatineau. It's called the Idea of North.
Glenn Gould, besides being a world-famous pianist, also put together three documentaries for CBC Radio in the '60s and '70s. Together, they're called the Solitude Triology. And one of them is called the Idea of North. It features five voices, speaking about their impressions of Canada's north. But Gould took these voices and wound them around each other, creating an audio art piece he called "contrapuntal radio".
-  playing in a hammock:        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rxNJPR94u0
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIpGFE_LKiE  and  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kekVAwH-nVg
-  unbelievable polar bear: http://speakingoffaith.publicradio.org/programs/play/audiogallery/soundseen.shtml
ALEX, THE FAMOUS AFRICAN GREY PARROT PASSES....intelligence of a five-year old (above primates): http://www.economist.com/displaystory.cfm?story_id=9828615
===  UPDATES -- WV
There's a youth shelter on the North Shore.  It's in NV for youth aged 13 to 18.  WV comprises 25% of the population of the North Shore, however 40% of the youth using it are from WV.
We have just found a salmon carcass in Brothers, believed to be a pink salmon.  This is quite unusual for Brothers Creek, so we will be starting our salmon surveys very soon. If you would like to participate, call WV Streamkeepers 628 1123.
> EAGLERIDGE BLUFFS UPDATE -- A week long celebration of Betty K's release from prison!
Vancouver's mighty 78-year-old grandmother has just spent six months in jail for trying to stop the destruction of Eagleridge Bluffs. This is an opportunity to welcome her back and show her in person our appreciation and admiration.
Wed 5 - 7pm Sept 26:  --  Rally with Betty at the Law Courts (Hornby & Smithe)
Rally at the Law Courts. Let the judges know that Betty's back in town! Celebrity speakers, First Nations dancing, music and general revelry
Speakers: Chief Capilano, Rex Weyler, Joe Foy, Adriane Carr, David Eby, Sue Rowan, Ivan Doumenc, Tzeporah Berman or Valerie Langer, Cameron Ward, Damian Kettlewell, Charles Boylan, Conrad Schmidt, Monika Sheardown
Singers: Nu-Chal-Nuth Mike Fraser, Edith Wallace, Spirathon, Wendy Hainstock
Fri Sept 28: -- Ride along with Betty at the Critical Mass bike ride
        Meet at 5:30pm at Vancouver Art Gallery, Howe and Georgia
PARTY with Betty at the Anza Club (3 West 8th) right after the CM bike ride
Doors open at 8pm; a fun event with speakers and lots of dancing, bands, performances, great DJs and much more dancing. The event is a fund raiser for her legal expenses.
Cost: $5 if you arrive with Critical Mass (Betty will be on the critical mass bike ride); $10 otherwise
=== WEBWATCH -- From the Web 2007 Sept 19
o   Number Of Iraqis Slaughtered Since The U.S. Invaded Iraq 1,051,145
o   Number of U.S .Military personnel sacrificed (officially acknowledged) in America's War On Iraq is 3,788, see http://icasualties.org/oif/
Cost of U.S. War and Occupation of Iraq   $452,668,226,354
Greenspan: Euro Gains As Reserve Choice  by AP
Former U.S. Federal Reserve chairman Alan Greenspan said it is possible that the euro could replace the U.S. dollar as the reserve currency of choice.
Locked up in the green zone:  U.S. Bans Overland Travel by Diplomats in Iraq:
The United States on Tuesday suspended all land travel by U.S. diplomats and other civilian officials throughout Iraq, except in Baghdad's heavily fortified Green Zone.
o   US agrees further British withdrawal from Iraq:
Britain is poised to announce significant cuts in the number of troops in southern Iraq following an upbeat assessment by US and British military officials in London yesterday.
o U.S. commander issues stark warning to Britain over early exit from Iraq:
The U.S. commander in Iraq has issued a stark warning to Gordon Brown of the 'devastating consequences' of pulling British troops out of the region too early.  http://snipurl.com/1qvsa
Apathy is our greatest enemy
 What does it take us to shock us into action these days? An Opinion Business Research (ORB) survey of Iraqi families indicates as many as 1.2 million Iraqi civilians may have died as a result of the war. That's five times more than the death toll wrought by Fat Man and Little Boy in Hiroshima and Nagasaki

===  CALENDAR to Oct 4th  ===  [M Hall unless otherwise noted; ongoing at end]
REMEMBER the Farmers' Markets:
          Saturdays: Dundarave 10am - 4pm; Sundays: Ambleside (14th/Bellevue) 11am - 3pm
After Truss's book I wanted to start the Royal Society for the Protection of the Apostrophe since so many treat it like a decoration of sprinkles on icing, so was intrigued when I came across this.  Turns out it's WORLD PUNCTUATION DAY: September 24th
== Tues Sept 25th
        ~ 4:30 - 6:30 ~ Finance and Audit Cmte
        ~ 6 - 8pm ~ Cmnty Consultation Mtg, Proposed Redevt 2396/2388 Marine D Irwin Pk School
        ~ 7pm ~ Cmnty Service Providers Forum
Also: DEADLINE for nominations for Environmental Awards: see http://www.westvancouver.ca/article.asp?a=5289&c=1023
[Don't you just love the DWV website's URLs?]
== Wed Sept 26th
        ~ 7:30pm ~ Child Care Services WG
~ 7pm ~ WV Historical Society mtg at Srs' Ctr: The Heritage Home in WV
Peter Miller of the North Shore Heritage Preservation Society (re preserving historic/distinctive bldgs in NV and WV); Stephen Mikicich, Sr WV Planner (The Heritage Strategic Plan and the WV Heritage Register); and a film presented by Dr Olga Kempo ("Margaret Martin Built a House", the story of an Edmonton home restored to its 1907 grace).
== Thurs Sept 27th
        ~ 4:30 - 6:30pm ~ Design Review Cmte [MOVED to Oct 4]
        ~ 5 - 7pm ~ NSACDI, CNV M Hall
        ~ 5:30pm ~ Rodgers Crk WG -- PROBABLY! -- NOPE, cancelled for now
== Saturday Sept 29th
 We pull for three hours, but if you can come for only an hour please join us.  Dress for the weather in old clothes and bring work gloves. Meet at the upper kiosk in the parking lot.
== Sunday Sept 30th
        ~ 3 - 7pm ~ Way Out West Fest - Gleneagles Cmnty Ctr
==  RIVERS DAY WEEKEND with West Vancouver Streamkeepers
SATURDAY Sept 29th.  West Vancouver Streamkeepers will celebrate Rivers Day with a display and information table at the rearing pond at Kings and 20th Street from 10am - 3pm. Coho and cutthroat fry caught in the pond will be on view as well as insect life from McDonald Creek. This pond is thriving with  fish and invertebrate life.  Help us plant some native species along the creek.  We will supply plants and shovels, cookies and soft drinks.
SUNDAY Sept 30th.  Mark Angelo will be at the Capilano Dam in the early morning, and then at the DFO Fish hatchery from 11am - 3pm. There  will be displays, information hand outs, and tours.

OCTOBER         THIRD: ~ 6pm ~ Cmnty Ctr Governance WG at Srs' Ctr
                FOURTH: ~ 4:30pm ~ Design Review Cmte (Moved from Sept 27)
+++ SFU Courses: Sept 28-29: Urban Design: Theory and Practice: http://www.sfu.ca/city/course2popup.htm

+++  CHAMBER OF COMMERCE CORNER [926 6614; www.chamber.westvan.org]
 == Wed Sept 26th  ~ 5 - 7pm ~  Member Showcase at Steamworks
The event is located in the private room at the back of the restaurant.  STEAMWORKS will be providing delicious complimentary appetizers, and there is a full no-host bar.   There will also be door prizes.  FREE - RSVP required for appetizer preparation

Heather Aston, Marie Price, Rina Pita, William Steinberg, Ingunn Kemble, Marja-Leena Rathje, Patricia Baldwin, Valerie Metz, Susan Campbell, Arnold Shives, Jane Adams,Peter Kiss, Tanya Gleave, Gillian Armitage, Michiko Suzuki, Wayne Eastcott, Ross Penhall, Gordon Smith

          - Mbrs-only SALE 6:30 - 8:30pm Thursday Sept 20th (mbrships $10, av at the door)
          - BOOK SALE 10am - 4pm Sat (21st) and Sun (22nd)
*  Doc TALKS -- A Documentary & Discussion
The Future of Food -- Unravels the complex web  of market and political forces that are changing the nature of what we eat. Discussion moderated by Harry Greenwood. No registration required.
Thursday, Sept. 27, 6:30 pm, Peter J. Peters Room

+++  WV MUSEUM +++
The Black Slip -- The Paintings of Jane Billaux (to October 27, 2007)
 West Vancouver is home to numerous artists drawn to its spectacular landscape, forested slopes, and proximity to both the mountains and ocean.  B.C. Binning, a key figure in the development of modernism on the West Coast of Canada, created numerous lyrical drawings inspired by local landscapes and scenes.  Jane Billaux, who moved to Canada from England in the 1930s, painted local people and places over her long career.

+++  WV ARTS COUNCIL +++ visit www.silkpurse.ca for events (most ticketed)

--->  For events at KMC, see www.kaymeekcentre.com
here's one coming soon but unfortunately on a ccl mtg night (full description was on WVM27):
*** Movies at the Meek ***  $10 per screening; buy tickets to the complete series and save 20%
Monday, September 24 (7:30pm) Special guest: Vic Sarin, film director.
PARTITION, featuring an international cast and shot in British Columbia and India, is an epic historical film and a heartbreaking love story set amid the turbulent political and religious backdrop of India in the 1940s....

+++  WV ARTS COUNCIL +++ visit www.silkpurse.ca for events (most ticketed)
--->  For events at KMC, see www.kaymeekcentre.com

=== WV Council Mtg NOTES Sept 17 ===

1.  APPROVAL OF AGENDA: Amended: add Item 3
Mayor: wd like to read remarks I gave at Swearing-In of Chief Heed
Police Bd will be discussing the strategic plan on Thursday at Bd Mtg, then Chief will be coming here
public input
[text of speech supplied to me]
Board Chair Goldsmith-Jones
Swearing In of Chief Constable Kash Heed
September 12, 2007 at the Kay Meek Centre
       Today is an auspicious day.  One measure of that is the Attorney General's address, and the lifetime of inspiration and support he has provided to our Chief.  West Vancouver is fortunate to have this kind of depth and support on our team, and we are very grateful for your presence here today.
       On behalf of our Police Board, welcome, and thank you for joining with us to celebrate the beginning of Chief Heed's leadership, and for your interest in the future of policing here in West Vancouver, and for your  recognition of that fact that we are all part of keeping our community as safe as possible. 
       There are few institutions valued more in West Vancouver than our Police Department.  This is why the past year has been especially full for me, for our Board, and for our officers and staff, as we have sought to build a vision and future for our Department that will sustain it over the long term.
       The six members of the Police Board who volunteer their time to uphold the Police Act, and to develop sound policy for the department, have done an outstanding job under sometime stressful conditions this year. 
Taken together, these six citizens represent multiple viewpoints, solid professional experience, and deep community understanding. They have adhered to a high standard of professional conduct in the provision of good governance as required by the Police Act, and in order to ensure that our Police Department is supported by its leadership.
       Each of these Board members has a strong sense of duty to the commitment they made when they became members of our Police Board.  They are fuelled by their respect for the community.
       I would like you to join me in recognizing Cec Brown, Nancy Farran, Pat Gallivan, Dennis Joseph, Mark Reder, and Doug Walden for their hard work and significant contribution to the future of our Police Department, and the community.
       As well, and though the Police Board is at arm's length from our Council, I am so pleased that most of our Council is here today, and ready to embark on a new path of strengthened communication and collaboration with the Police Board.
      Today we are joined by many members of the Department - both sworn officers and civilian staff.  They are an incredibly dedicated group, and they are ready for, and committed to, positive change.
       As well, from volunteers in the Police Department, to Parent Advisory Council members and School Board trustees, to staff from the District of West Vancouver and social service agencies, a broad cross section of the community is represented here today.  We look forward to participating fully with our Police Department, in helping them to achieve their goals.  We know we are all part of reducing crime and the fear of crime - which you will get used to hearing Chief Heed repeat over and over.
       We are very fortunate to have been able to attract Chief Heed to West Vancouver, and we are excited and very motivated to support him in leading our Police Department.  Chief Heed is driven, he is respected, and he is already hard at work. 
       Our Chief has been in the forefront of policing throughout his career.  He has pioneered new initiatives aimed at crime reduction and prevention, aimed at greater community and police engagement, and aimed at organizational change.  He is not a member of the status quo. 
       He comes to us from the Vancouver Police Department, where he served for 29 years, most recently as Superintendent for the South Command, leading all operational and administrative police functions for Districts 3 and 4.
       Chief Heed has a Master of Arts in Criminology from SFU, and he currently instructs criminology and criminal justice programs at the University College of the Fraser Valley and Douglas College.
       He has won numerous awards throughout his career, in recognition of distinguished service to the Indo-Canadian community, for excellence in community crime prevention, and, the Vancouver Board of Trade's Police Officer of the Year for Extraordinary Performance.
       To officiate today, I am very pleased to introduce Judge Doug Moss, and following that, to welcome Chief Constable Kash Heed to address you with regard to his plan for policing in West Vancouver.
2.  DELEGATION -- L. Gibbs, Dundarave Neighbourhood Association (DNA), regarding Development Issues in Dundarave  [SLIDES]
Tom Bowen: thanks for responding to my first letter
7:12  [text supplied]
September 13, 2007
Dear Mayor & Councillors:
First, let me thank you for your concern and reply to my first letter.  As a member of West Vancouver's Dundarave Concerned Citizens, [now DNA] I just want to reinforce that our main concern is the preservation of the environment, quality of life and values we have developed and share in our neighbourhoods.  Precisely as stated in West Vancouver's Zoning Bylaw No. 2200, 1968.
In the mid [1990s] West Vancouver Planning was concerned over the proliferation of "monster" houses that were causing blight on the community, denuding the landscape and ruining the existing neighbours' views while lowering their home values while land values inflated forcing them to consider selling and moving out of their enjoyed neighbourhoods.
Twenty-two pages of "Guidelines" were developed by the Permits & [Licences] Department.  These guidelines help kill the worst of the monsters but they're not extinct.  Developers who seem to think bigger is better, quantity not quality sells and increases their bottom line, keep pushing the envelope of the Bylaws.
As an architect, my training was to study a site, the surrounding sites, the terrain, the views, the sun angles, the natural features such as trees and shrubs then design a home that [fitted] comfortably upon and enhanced the site and likewise the neighbourhood.  Bylaws and Building Codes were respected as controls to safety and security of the occupants as well as "guiding the natural growth of the (neighbourhoods) in a systematic and orderly way for the benefit of the community as a whole . . ."
Generally people building their own homes were concerned about functionality, comfort, and aesthetics as well as long values (sustainability) as they were owner occupants.  They were also good neighbours, consideration of others.  Fashion, and creation of huge unneeded spaces that would seldom be used were avoided to allow quality in planning and construction and finishes.  In short, they did not place profit-making as the prime objective in building a house.  They were building a home in a neighbourhood.
In my way of thinking, this is what we should be doing. 
Again thank you for hearing our concerns and helping resolve the problems.
Yours truly,
Thomas (Tom) W. Bowen, MAIBC MRAIC (retired)
Peter Miller:   Good evening, my name is Peter Miller....[text supplied]
Much work went into the Official Community Plan and in it our area is described as having a "Park-Like setting".  This is the local character that we all enjoy and would wish to preserve.
Concern has been expressed that as homes are replaced, no attention is being paid to retaining the street-scape and landscaping to preserve this "Park-Like setting".
Seeing this, and learning about the trials and tribulations of others in our neighbourhood, such the [Gibbses] - that you're hearing from this evening - we have resolved to form a neighbourhood association (yet to be named) [now DNA] to discuss our concerns and bring to Council some constructive suggestions for improving the Development Permit process to formally include notification of and input from all adjoining owners of a property that's about to be redeveloped.
The intention is not to restrict the size of the new house, which is based upon 'hard facts' such as allowable floor area and height but rather to encourage those making decisions about the design of the new development to take into consideration and respect such 'soft elements' as surface texture, materials, roof lines and landscaping features to reflect the "Park-Like setting".
We were encouraged by Coun. Jean Ferguson's suggestion that ". . . residents should be asked to consult with their neighbours before redeveloping," but as the letter in Sunday's North Shore News explained, the problem is not redevelopment by neighbours intending to stay but rather redevelopment by non-resident developers with no personal stake in maintaining amicable relations in the community. Their goal seems simply to maximize their financial return on a property and move on. We intend to formulate some recommendations to help mitigate the results of such an attitude and hope that you will welcome and consider our suggestions when we return to you, in due course.
Thank you
7:15 Lock Gibbs: [text supplied; speaks to slides {my clarifications}]
Our intention is to show how: calculations affect the height of a house, how covered decks affect the mass of a house, and how builders' motivations tend to oppose the intent of the Official Community Plan (OCP). 
To start with, the Floor Area Ratio (FAR) is fundamental to the floor area or size of a building.  The FAR is equal to the area of all storeys of a house divided by the area of the building lot. According to the OCP, this is a method of controlling the size of building that can be built on a property calculated by multiplying the lot area by the FAR.  For a single family dwelling, the value typically is .35. {Maximum FAR for sgl fam dwellings in WV is .35}  For example, in Dundarave, a typical lot may be 10,000 square feet, the allowable floor area would be 10,000 times .35 = 3,500 square feet.  By itself, this is a fairly large house. 
Exclusions to FAR are: garages (440 sq ft), accessory buildings (240 sq ft), basements or parts of basements (that lie below average grade), crawl spaces, and unusable attics.  Included in FAR calculations is "the total area of all storeys." According to the zoning bylaw, the definition of "storey: shall mean the space between two floors, or between the floor and the roof next above."  In other words, where there is a floor below and a ceiling above, there is a storey.  In many recently built homes, the entire basement is excluded adding another 1500 sq. ft. to the building size.  This totals 3,500 + 1,500 or 5,000 sq ft. total living space.
An ambiguity exists in the zoning bylaws where covered decks are not defined.  In our opinion, covered decks should be considered as storeys, however, the planning department interprets this in various ways.  In the Guideline to Zoning Bylaw Floor Area Ratio and Site Coverage Regulations, Decks and Porches, whether covered or uncovered, if at least one side is open, are excluded from FAR calculations. We maintain that a covered deck that is open on one side, having a 42" railing across the open end, is living space and should be included as floor area.  It is a simple matter to add a heater and use this space year round. Even if the deck was open on two sides, this would still be usable living space most of the year in West Vancouver.
Each of the six published guidelines has an opening paragraph that states, "The zoning bylaw must be referred to for exact regulations prior to preparation of detailed plans for building permit application." Because covered decks are not specifically excluded in the Zoning Bylaw FAR calculation and that covered decks which can be enclosed on three sides are used as living space, we believe that they should be included in the total area of all storeys. 
Secondly, Building Height is defined as the difference between average grade and the mean height line of the attic.  In the guideline to Zoning Bylaw Building Height Regulations, page 1, the mean height of the roof peak and the upper ceiling in the house is upper or the blue line of the building height graphic.  The lower of natural or finished average grade establishes the lower or red line. The defined height is not the total height but rather is the difference in these two defined lines.  Often the actual height of a building is bigger than 25 feet because the highest point is actually more than 25 feet above actual ground level and the land may slope away from the peak of the building.
The situation is exacerbated when decks are stacked allowing an extensions of the basement, main floor and second floor.
Stacked covered decks increase height above average grade.  This arises on sloping ground where the stacked covered decks may cause the center of the building to be projected horizontally above average grade.  In West Vancouver, the land typically slopes to the south, as a result, decks will be placed to catch the sun, on the south side.
Stacked covered decks increase mass (or volume) of the building. Remember that the guidelines refer to a deck enclosed on three sides which has a railing 42" high.  Is this the start of a new unintended trend not anticipated by the OCP to increase the size of a building?
Another way that developers take advantage of the rules for building height is by pushing the interpretation of Natural Grade.  In the Zoning Bylaw, "Natural Grade shall mean the undisturbed ground level formed without human intervention or, where the undisturbed ground level cannot be ascertained because of an existing building or structure, the undisturbed existing grade."  On a property of a house due for demolition having retaining walls exist, has the ground been disturbed?  We maintain that it has.  Retaining walls are usually built on existing grade and then back filled to level the ground. The developers' motivation is to maximize the height, the view and the size of the building. By choosing to place the building on the top of the highest wall (disturbed grade), the building height is increased.
The way that natural grade is determined has an effect on the determination of building height. In actual practice, the elevations of existing grade of a building marked for demolition are accepted and used to determine natural grade. Does the building department requiring a topographical survey [take] into account the grade of properties surrounding a development site?  Not in our experience.  Using existing elevations for grade has become the default determination of natural grade. When a building site is located on retaining walls, the lack of a broadly based topographical survey results often causes a building higher than it should be.
Are the existing bylaws being enforced?  In one recently completed development, the retaining wall along the property line was found to be 6 feet, yet, the limit is 4 feet in the Building Bylaw. Was this situation inspected by staff?
In a presently occurring development, the difference between  top of damp proofing and grass of the adjacent property is 15 feet, however, the distance between houses is 16 feet. Whereas there is already a 6 foot retaining wall on the property line and the guidelines for retaining walls state that an angle of 37 degrees is the maximum grade for retaining walls, how could this have been passed by staff?  Does staff actually examine properties before granting a building permit?
Another example of retaining walls is this ongoing site on Orchard Street where a legal 4 foot retaining wall was built along the property line.  Is staff aware of the preexisting stone retaining wall another 2 - 3 feet from the property line?
In another development on Ottawa Avenue, the district allowed existing grades for natural grade.  This development used disturbed grades to allow a development that is higher than it should be. The excavation extended 17 feet into the ground at its deepest point.  See how deep a basement can be where the entire basement is excluded from the FAR calculation.
Some other Issues
When a developer was issued a stop work order, he was able to continue to the end of the day.  Stopping upon issuance of this order was considered by the building inspector as a hardship on the developer.
When a neighbour wanted to examine the site survey, this request was denied.
When an adjacent neighbour requests to see plans and site surveys, a request in writing is required.
When requesting site surveys that are on microfiche, written permission of the owner is required.  The only difference is that documents in microfiche are 10 years old or more, more recent available documents are less than 10 years old.
Topographical surveys done by BCLS certified surveyors are accepted without question by the District.
If a survey is to be challenged, a citizen has to commission a surveyor and lawyer at a cost of at least $4,000. To exercise a citizen's rights, it is expensive, time consuming, and requires much stamina and perseverance.
For Your Information
In trying to investigate these cases with regard to the District web site, we have found that:
Navigation is not intuitive, no drop down menus. 
Search engine does not locate most documents known to exist.
Many items do not have obvious titles to allow easy access.
Many documents are buried so deep they are difficult to find.
For example, minutes of council meetings, no matter when they have occurred, appear with the same title, "The Corporation of the District of West=8A"
Definitions in the Zoning Bylaw have Lot Area defined, Floor Area not defined; Enclosed Balcony defined, Covered and uncovered decks not defined; and Storey defined, Maximum Building Height not defined.
Recommendations of this presentation:
Enforce Bylaws as written and intended.
Include Covered Decks in the Floor Area Ration (FAR) calculation.
7:27 -- Zoning bylaws ...  defined/not defined
max bldg ht not defined -- higher and higher as much as 50ft
                enforce bylaws as written and intended
                include covered decks in FAR calculation
tyvm for being patient; one more person wanting to speak
Mayor: well, Cmte of Whole so can be more.  Is it Jann Gibbs?
JG: want to talk a bit more about feedback from the nbrhd
these kinds of things are totally devastating to nbrs happens to
how to identify problem, how change that
last time when we spoke we talked about talking to devprs, too tough to enforce; so tried to find another way
nbrs feeling alone and violated; bylaws, but not being respected; inequity here
the rights of the citizen, nbr, homeowner, not being honoured
on a personal note, it's too late for us
want to stop what is happening; don't want anyone to go through it
at our second mtg, the one question that came from our group -- who is ultimately responsible for ensuring that the homeowners' prop rights are enforced?
Mayor? & Ccl?  Plan
ning Dept? Bldg Dpt? MMgr
the mission stmt originally written by the Planning Dept is v good
talks about specific ideals that the homeowners are all saying but not happening
ideals, like air, preservation of prop; ev asking for, but somehow those ideals are not being followed
system overloaded? not enough staff? don't know
whole list has been denied to the homeowner and that is significant
the welfare of the public being ignored, rights not being filtered down to homeowner
goals of bylaw -- preservation of amenities, etc.....maintaining character, somehow lost
ideal, mission stmt, that's what homeowner looking for and that's why upset
public feels being let down by their beloved WV
somehow or other, what they value doesn't have the laws
the breach of contract with the public, leave homeowners severely disadvantaged
our recommendation maybe, not sure, someone to go to
hiring an ombudsman; an internal liaison, a facilitator, full-time as a resource to the cmnty
wd hv authority to investigate complaints and make recommendations
transparency and report back to Ccl
new team mbr for you, take pressure off you, and Bldg/Planning Dept - to xxxx
enable you to communicate with public
imbalance and inequities valuable to you
urge you add ppl, to make amends to these inequities
extra resources will alleviate ..... , improve relations
rights of cmnty; goals of homeowners; must be enforced before another bldg is built
7:37  Sop: in the Zoning Bylaw it does refer to consideration of a storey, between two levels, so assume patio and deck above a storey
wonder why we've had an interpretation otherwise
why covered deck excluded?  clearly states shd be included in FAR
SJN: in FAR or bldg ht
Sop: read
SJN: re ambiguity in bylaws
in this instance, recognizing there was an ambiguity
had it relocated and
found.... 25ft under so still within ht limits of Zoning Bylaw
staff had interpreted as natural or ... grade
so second staff mbr looked at that and again came up with under 25ft
required devpr to hire a BCLS -- Richard Martin was hired, diff calculations than ours, but still bldg still within the 25ft ht -- it did comply with bylaws
intend to rewrite bylaws b/c do have ambiguities

{The attempt was to talk in general, not a specific case although at least one was needed to demonstrate there was a problem.  Good to note that Dir/Planning acknowledges there are ambiguities and one of the reasons the bylaws being rewritten
the point the presentation is trying to make, is that b/c of 'interpretations' as a result of ambiguity, that the intent of the bylaws be made clear to staff and staff directed to apply the bylaws as intended regardless of the ambiguities.
IOW, when an ambiguity, it shd be interpreted with the view of reducing mass and height as intended rather than giving devprs a means of getting greater mass and height.}

do know Mr Bowen 1990s, but since 1980s, concerned about house size, revising bylaws constantly; time to do that again
do this fall, appreciate suggestions
equity to us, interpretation of bylaw, not ev blder in WV is a devpr, ppl live in their homes
our job to treat each resident the same
ppl coming in can expect the same interpretation

{Yes; but that interpretation shd be with the OCP/Ccl intent of lower mass and height, not maximizing the size and height of a house by taking advantage of every ambiguity.  The advantage shd be to the smaller, rather than the greater.
As someone pointed out, covered decks are not counted in the FAR but sellers include that space in their ads of the size of the house.  It's living space.}
cmnty review; try to separate this case or what's happening in general
in this case, met with both the owners and the bldr
did negotiate changes in bldg design, don't know if accepted by the nbrs
do recog impact; exacerbated that Lock's prop's view over left
know Locks {he means the Gibbses} are significantly impacted
Sop: reasonable then looking at bylaws, probably take two years, also Nbrhd Character WG mid2008
reasonable a resolution tonight to enforce bylaws as written and intended

{But Readers/Ccl, was it done?  I've been given a couple of interpretations of this!}

SJN: No, Madam Mayor, I wd not support Ccl making that motion.  We do enforce the bylaws as written
Sop: well, that'll be a point of discretion as to whether that happens or not
then my second one, that this Ccl look at an amendment to include covered decks in the FAR calculation
v simple, in the interim; [otherwise] take two years to get anywhere
are we going to allow massing of covered decks from now until the bylaws are done?
Mayor: wd you like to respond to that?
SJN: for Ccl to decide
Mayor: cd we listen to the other comments and questions and then come back to you, Cclr Sop?
Sop: guess I've concluded that staff wd not accept enforcement of the bylaws as written and intended, as the original intent; I'm not saying what they're doing is wrong, just saying if we as Ccl look at the original intent of the bylaw, we did not anticipate that there wd be another exclusion to FAR, wch is now covered decks, wch creates a massing, wch affects the nbrhd, so logically, what wd we do?
this is a v sensible thing to do -- wait two years to do it or do it tonight?
SJN: the bylaw says FAR is measured between the exterior walls, to the outside of the exterior walls, there is no exterior wall on a covered deck, or an uncovered deck; that's why it's not measured to there; it says quite specifically where you measure it to.

{Can you say L-O-O-P-H-O-L-E?
Do you believe no one wd anticipate that a devpr wd spot that and rush through?}

The height calculation is the one that has some ambiguity; it says the perimeter of the bldg we're measuring down to the ground from is taken down the exterior wall of the bldg except for covered decks; that's where the ambiguity comes, it's a contradiction.

{So now we're all confused between ambiguity and contradiction.}

in case of Locks {the Gibbses} next door, did it both ways; it was under height in either case
that deck is on the uphill side of house; if extended around, it wd have increased
only b/c on downside
JF: comment made wrt adequate staffing; do you feel that needs adjustment? need to hire?
SJN: there is an issue there; just lost two; ppl move around
staff here go out and enforce the bylaws, they go out
complex bldgs
where lack of staffing is that it'll take you six or eight weeks to get your bldg permit
we're not misinterpreting the bylaw b/c of lack of staff; but it is a slower process
JF: this new Zoning Bylaw, will it contain insisting on nbrhd consultation, view corridors, impacts
SJN: that's a more difficult question
legally you need bylaws so you know you can get a permit; can't draw....
nothing stopping you from asking to notify
by that time bldg designed and reluctant to change
sometimes ppl will change so you can notify but you can't have a discretionary process
VV: agenda we do move
I was going to go further -- this list of unused spaces
at time written, imagining equipment but not living spaces
so cd move not only covered decks but spaces with standing head room
can apply for Variance
SJN: with FAR, more difficult; often not interpreted as density, as massing
reason why basements partially excluded, done over six months (both sides of issue)
asked why penalizing us for something you can't see
half below ground so only half excluded
architects said can build some of space below ground rather than all above
it will be a bigger building; doesn't work when max above
can only exclude what taken off top
was a reason for putting the exclusion in in the first place, to reduce

{but it didn't in many cases, was bigger, so if not anticipated why not reviewed as to how to handle?}

VV: Zoning Bylaw is ambiguous wrt covered decks
wd think go to OCP and go to character
cd be a reference to be used if Zoning Bylaw hasn't something tied down
allowing maximum rather than constrained
add to agenda of reg ccl mtg
think overdue, a lot of ppl upset, overbuilding, blasting, [etc]
rather than moving two more years; see what we can do this evening

{Sop recommends a motion, VV wants it added to reg ccl mtg agenda, but what happened?}

CAO: staff can try to craft a resolution
staff reporting as to whether the current methods of calculating are inconsistent and steps that cd be taken in the short term to address this
if result inconsistent with bylaws what can be done

{Good suggestion but omits the fact that Ccl can give direction/interpretation to staff right tonight!}

VV: perhaps there'll be devprs out there; might be 50 new applications tomorrow
a few more weeks able to build to max
RD: two yrs came up but not based on any certainty
Planner said intend to rewrite the bylaws this fall, want to hold you to that
I know dept v busy, take all projects, pessimism so two years
don't know if we can craft them tonight
reasonable expectations and panic...
hold Mr Nicholls, revision of bylaws this fall
dept, devprs, citizens know where they stand
think our planners know what needs to be done, just a question of time and making it a priority
revised bylaws won't bring about miracles but will do something
by mid/early Dec want to see revised bylaws
SJN: overpromise and underdeliver is wrong
that depends on my being freed up to do it

{yes, but putting interpretation into practice takes no more time or staff, just different decisions from some in past permitting larger buildings.....}

no reason why Ccl can't do things in phases
that, you can adjust
really three critical things to deal with and rewrite later; that's probably
RD: that's what I'm suggesting, not that all bylaws sealed, signed, and delivered
don't see how we can do that tonight
give Mr Nicholls the time, get to work on this; can make progress in next months; know key issues
Mayor: work on motion to bring later?
Sop: referring to the Gibbses, their house, and what they saw
wd it result in lower massing?
SJN: if deck on street side wd hv resulted in higher house
still wd hv bn under 25ft on that specific property
Sop: wise to have a staff report back
what interpretation ... what the Locks {Gibbses} have faced
we're in process of hiring new planner; in the interim, what is it we can do, interpretation, what Gibbses have faced; have to get grips on this
everywhere we look yards gone, gardens disappearing to concrete and mass
Mayor: Cclr Smith?
MS: I live a block from the Gibbses; want to preserve the reason the reason I bought
60 x 120 -- 24 or 2500ft
drive around, clearly a lot bigger than that
Mr Nicholls said he cd quickly deal with max house above
IOW, that is where the nub of the issue is
probly quickly address; that calc done so we don't have houses larger than the surrounding nbrhds
SJN: whenever we propose something there are differences of opinions so interesting
VV: appreciate haven't the expertise tonight
two ppl we heard tonight are architects; go on with it, sufficient expertise
we are hearing from professionally qualified ppl
RD: if we have a report, ppl like Mr Bowen, Mr Miller, Mrs Gibbs, can have input
aware of problem but not details
expert insight; what can be done, what the possibilities are
indivs can have input
can't do it tonight; not in writing; mistake to move to quickly or to wait too long
keep an eye on what's going on; ask for a report as to what's going on; receive submissions
JC: I agree with Cclr Day, this prob has been around forever
to come up with a knee-jerk reaction tonight when weeks of careful study by Mr Nicholls wd give us the answer
owe it to ourselves and nbrs
a few years ago tried same thing -- I tried to limit new house to footprint
too big a discussion... two sides, three sides, need to hear from everybody
Mayor: list a few things that affect all of us; nbrhd character imp to all of us
need to hire a new Dir/Planning, that's been established
walls, natural grade, decks,. etc
even have had devprs and surveyors say shd not do this...
natural character; cmnties never spend time talking about trees, rocks, and this cmnty does ........
make a bylaw; some easy hot topics; phasing makes sense; certainly the WG wd benefit from that as well; expertise in devt cmnty want to work on this as well; I think, Cclr VV, what Cclr Day is saying, there are experts in the cmnty -- it's us as cclrs, lay ppl, who aren't.
don't want to put something forward that's not going to result in the consequences we're looking for

{a valid concern, but does anyone think that experts along with our expert planning staff did not write the OCP and Zoning bylaws we have now???}

when can you have report back to us?
SJN: can we drop Rodgers West, Amb Strategy, and others?  I'm going to be away for part of Oct
you want staff to report back on the key issues dealt with in the Zoning and Devt Bylaws; time table and proceeding
method for establishing priorities; ask for that at least by Nov; doesn't mean we're not doing work, just puts it together
try to include in that report; hows and as many of the whats
Mayor: think much of our ideals already embodied
be able to provide anybody with when they come to the dept ... guidelines, spirit ... not that that is ironclad
SJN: I hate to say it but I also have a file of zoning ambiguities that have to be dealt with
I'm not going to let the bldg industry know what they are, though.

{They already know, Steve, they already know.  Why do you think the Gibbses are at the mike and the nbrhd (and others) are so upset?}

Mayor: that will come back; been fruitful, tyvm: Hope you can stay for next portion of the mtg
Cclr Clark, pls thank the delegation.  [DONE]
3. Council Meeting Procedures and Meeting Schedule -- Information to be provided.
SSch: July 2006; subsequent discussions, streamlining of Ccl processes, changes
draft before you incorporates revisions; revisions to Sept 2007; sections consolidated
[wrt extending ccl mtg past 10pm] change vote from unanimous to two thirds
supplemental process deleted, no longer will be using that
change two delegations per mtg to one, delegation time increased ten minutes; Public Question increased to three minutes per speaker
Robts Rules of Order (RRO) added as reference for procedural motions
new section regarding Cmte of the Whole and Schedule A was added, fewer rules wrt motions;
revisions to 2007 version ref to RRO deleted except for voting proceedings
Notice of Motion section has been deleted
Consent Agenda procedure clarified and described
clarification wrt amendment of motions
cmte of whole deleted, new section regarding Ccl workshops
Mayor: I feel like you and I and Dave Stuart have been doing on this ev Tues for a year
Sop: a couple of queries on p11 Agenda -- make available at least two days prior to mtg, that wd be Fri?
SSch: agenda actually available to Ccl on Thursdays so three full days
Sop: says two here prior to next mtg
Ssch: correct
Sop; what if the agenda spells out some pertinent results we have to deal with that takes a longer time than two days to look at, deliberate?
CAO: Ccl always has the right to defer the item; study it for another week; always that option
Sop: we do get some stuff laid on us; sometimes timetables
if an important item, what do we do, just say staff, we're not going to deal with that
CAO: Ccl has often deferred to the following week; especially if rec'd information late
Sop: second is the workshop, has some merit; not a constituted mtg, nothing passed and voted on
why all the rules, just discussion, light, notes; but still has to follow all these rules, so why?
don't vote on anything: is it just a get together with no notes, no rules, whatever?
SSch: suggestion to implement a diff format, also wanted to assure that notice wd still be given to mbrs of the public in accordance with the current process for agenda; solicitor has reiterated that in that type of format no motions may be made; more informal format than Cmte of the Whole
Sop: in effect pretty well taking and adopting the policy of the CEC in relationship WGs
Mayor: conducting Cmte of the Whole, outdated;  this supposed to be a modern Cmte of the Whole and we're calling it a Ccl Workshop and we're holding it in public.
JC: was expecting to see some restriction on the number of times a mbr can speak and length of time
Mayor: twice, unless Chair
JF: page 4.46
JC: that doesn't restrict time; that's order
Mayor: what is our policy? time?
SSch: policy, generally has been five minutes, and can be extended by leave of Ccl
JC: shd that not be here?
CAO: 4.50; it says unless unanimously resolved by Ccl, mbrs can speak twice, max five min
Mayor: except if we resolve [otherwise]
VV: question and wonder when I get an opportunity move to amend these
on p4, 2.4B; two thirds vote [needed to proceed beyond 10pm]; used to be unanimous; don't seem to be sticking to that

{au contraire, mon amie!  it's precisely b/c it has to be unanimous that several times this year the ccl mtg ended abruptly at 10pm even though other items still to be dealt with.  Also why I've suggested Ccl assess the situation at 9:30 or 9:45 at latest to decide wch items to defer and to allow time for the public who may have waited from 7pm to speak (and some have left rather disgruntled).}

I think it was better that way; difficulties if individuals can't stay beyond 10pm, they cd miss out on significant votes, I just don't think that's really v fair or properly represents the interests of the public as a whole; I think it shd be a unanimous vote, not a two thirds vote to proceed beyond 10 o'clock

{That's for ccl to decide.  Any who want to leave, leave; any who want to stay, stay.  The decision to continue the mtg then is decided by two thirds, not a single mbr.  I do agree, however, that Ccl shd work this out between themselves -- all stay or all go is best.  Whatever items are deferred is also up to Ccl; they know the deadlines and have their priorities.  The public's concern is just that the mtg shd not be terminated before or without the public's allotted 15 minutes -- the amount of time generally anticipated but the limit per resident is three minutes and there are rarely more than five wishing to speak.}

only received for info this evening
SSch: info this evening can be revised
stat notice in newspaper; reporting all the suggestions
CAO: can go through as a straw vote to see if consensus for change
if you go by 2/3 they can still leave; if unanimous, one person can [end mtg]
MS: certainly delighted to hear Cclr V for a unanimous vote; no reason why these mtgs shd go past 10 o'clock
go on beyond; hold cclr mbrs who work; staff who have to drive [long distances]; due back at work next day
have 10 o'clock cast in stone and not even ask for an extension; get mtgs over faster
Mayor: sounds like unanimous vote we shd
CAO: two mbrs spoke
JF: with best of intentions...  take long
normally a delegation -- only allotted ten minutes [tonight] took an hour and 15 min
to conclude biz; from time to time have to be more lenient
not allow extension for some petulant reason or feeling a bit tired, you knew when you took obligation
question of 15 min more shuteye?
Sop: I do a lot of research on items
Gibbses -- these folks have been working three to four months on these issues
these are professionals
do all those things, come to Ccl only avenue of democracy
we may take some time; some may talk more than others; expect cclrs talk it out
am inquisitive and want to see things to come about
in 12 years, seen mtgs go to 11:30 and 12
if an indiv wants to go home before 10 they can get up and leave
most don't sit... can't for vote... when we start... in course of night's work, we shd work
JC: age creeping up
if we have unanimous means... if one mbr; after the mbr wants to get up and leave; can leave before ten whether 10pm or whenever
not quite sure why going through this whole
can vote at five to 10pm and anyone who wants to leave can
Mayor: some discipline; ... half
take time, listening to public; try to be flexible; leave at unanimous; may be a topic for debate; sounds that's where most mbrs of Ccl are at moment
SSch: re Ccl workshops, add anything?
CAO: intent to replace Cmte of the Whole; going to be implementing all the requirements of the Charter


no longer at other times; no longer in camera workshops
somewhat simpler, transparent and clearer


workshop, will foster that kind of dialogue
not limited to this room; here, cmte room, anywhere out in public
Mayor: v boiled down
4. North Shore Child Care Needs Assessment =96 Final Report
Report dated August 27, 2007 from the Manager of Social Services ... received for information.
MS: report will be presented Nov 5; our WG trying to address the issue
5. Ambleside Town Centre Strategy =96 Key Issues
1. The report dated September 11, 2007 from the Manager, Community Planning be received; and
2. Council provide guidance to staff on the issues to be addressed in the final draft Ambleside Town Centre Strategy, for further consideration at a Town Hall Meeting to be held in early October 2007.
Geri Boyle: key points; formal policy; gave background, WG, townhall mtg; recommendations were presented to Ccl
key issues: diversification of uses; pedestrians; arts culture -- opp to add to assets
sustainability -- providing opps to live and work in cmnty; strategy tries to integrate that
specifically we want to present -- turn over to Colette re ht
Colette Parsons: height policies [slide]
one- and two-storey bldgs (light) next to dark blue (newer bldgs); not much change in blue areas
smaller-scale bldg sites, recommending remain in three-storey range
locations where it wd take more than one site to create a large enough frontage on main routes where four-storey cd occur, when assembly of two or more lots
orange colour: quite a lot of frontage
wd anticipate; three sites, some potential for some add'l ht; v large
Next: cross sections [slide] developed from waterfront to residential behind (1400 block up to Duchess)
bldgs stepping away from street; at third and fourth storey we want to step back; providing some open space for upper storey residentials
cross section in 1500 block, old Odeon site [slide], showing relationship three with four on other side
1800 block [slide], far right sgl resid behind where abuts want to make sure respectful transition and whatever happens across the lane
also shows four storeys on MDr but b/c of slope equates to fifth storey down on south side but already resid towers impacting views
step bldgs back to get light down to street
massing; looking at character and bldg articulation; quality bldgs, well-articulated
Hollyburn Med Bldg, new IGA, well crafted; Dund Mews
variations in scale and throughout Amb area
SJN: OCP and design massaged b/c devt permit reqmts; idea of prezoning
in Amb today a mishmash of diff designations; site-specific zonings, land use, service stn zonings, not proposing to change
either C2 and SI1 an out of date zoning (Clyde Ave)
talk about ambiguity; 30 years ago, somewhat out of date
ppl living in the cmnty and ppl wanting to build shd know
what they want to have in Amb
framework for zoning wch we wd bring forth in detail
outlying areas, purple, ppl cd build mixed commercial residential or residential
purple purpose if flexibility
concentrated area wd be orange area, our today's C2, amended -- mixed comm-resid, both on Marine Drive and ......
core area in orange outside flexible; stars are larger and unique props
prezone not for anything over but leave possibility of applications to take adv of something that better suits area
cd hold townhall mtg Oct 3, so ask ccl guidance, SAC not av
CAO: helpful if staff wd comment if intent to bring fwd strategy based on staff or WG recommendations b/c some differences
SJN: townhall close, short, so providing info from staff and material from WG
wdn't be able to provide in advance of mtg but provided direction; material av to public
8:51  JF: wrt what CAO said; the differences are few but significant diffs
I wd prefer to have both av for discussion
think that the rationale behind WG needs to be clearly understood
important for ppl in cmnty to hear and for Ccl to hear; don't think terribly far apart
SJN: right, nuances; believe bonus densities proposed by WG may be diff to accomm
ofc space within area required not an option
JF: WG recs did come from biz, trying to rent out second storey offices; reasons for recs
maybe find some middle ground
Keith Pople: VP of ADRA, speaking on their behalf
ADRA cannot endorse or accept the WG's report
we find the recs regarding changes to the town ctr together with the suggestion by one of the mbrs of the Amb WG for a marina
v concerned; [biz?] proportions given a majority role
if had at least as many area residents, and if reps from ADRA and PWV wd give diff results
ADRA directors believe no support for a base FAR of 1.75 and multistorey
we're in midst of conducting a survey and expect to have results shortly
data collected so far, opposition to density and multistorey
detrimental to seaside village character of the area
believe can be upgraded without destroying its unique small-town charm
Edgemont Village in NV is an example of how this can be accomplished; here a rather dormant biz dist was transformed into a vibrant and successful one with charm and character without dominating the surrounding nbrhd and the envmt
zoning regulations that accomplished this allowed one to three storeys, and max FAR there is 1.5; and DNV involved its nbrs in the Edgemont village concept
ADRA favours a course of action similar in Ambleside.
John Seddon: representing owners of Bellevue Landing
have given our position and suggestions verbally and in writing
we took readings of the sound volumes during Harmony Aerts, some instance exceeded those set down by bylaw
concerned about littering
first thing in morning, some days during HAF, M staff v gd and cleaned up fairly shortly after nevertheless if on 14th where civic sq to be located, wd not look fwd to
photos of portapotties, removed fairly quickly but don't want outside your front door
don't want
last Sat, when antique or collector cars; was an Elvis singer on north side of Ferry Bldg but our recorder of sound not around; sound far exceeded volume of train or jet engine
idea of having a concert great but blowing someone's eardrums escapes
concentrate on what beautifies Amb, put power lines underground
notice revised definition of Amb District on plan shown by Colette
if that's the definition of Amb, then the Amb WG had no mbr on it who resided in that area; one within two blocks of that area; rest considered owners of comm prop, biz, architects, bd of Trade; no mbr who lived on Argyle, Bellevue, Clyde, ... ; this I think a great oversight
useful, they understand a lot of technical details
av owner is the majority shd be heard from but weren't
shd wish to hear from any residents of Bellevue Landing happy to hear
VV: am concerned seems to be continuing and heading to a town hall mtg
ADRA objected as view of ppl around there; wonder if this is ready; residents don't want it
like, ref toward end, greater cleanliness, powerwash the sidewalks
the one resident on WG, Dolly, said yes needs to be cleaned up but keep it quaint
why over opposition of ppl who live there?
Mayor: purpose to shape what that looks like, devise a process how nbrs ...
can't ascribe motives....
update regulations to support bldg restoration, renewal, and sustainability
encourage reno of smaller sites, entrances, unanimous support for an art gallery
then some things that aren't acceptable
cmnty as a whole has put a lot of effort
sophisticated process, Festival Street concern about that
enhance natural shoreline
map on side of wall has been in my office for over a year, no marina
open up cmnty gardens
the spirit is to do with character; not four storeys, may want to stop at three
the Edgemont Cmnty Assn wanted to see redevt
talking about a modest proposal; acceptable and better
in a workshop, no decisions, now about process; plan crafted by everyone
JF: know I've spoken before about WG, spoken from point of knowledge to recs from staff
didn't ever hear one word of criticism up to election
ev wd agree not the viable shopping district they were used to or wanted
only heard that biz dist be viable and upgraded
and a town ctr WV can be proud
there were three residents -- what goes on will have far reaching effects

{a generous estimate but weren't there 11 on WG -- see the point?

a marina idea was referred to as initiated by one of the mbrs of the WG, never discussed by WG or recommended
a mbr who wants to have one, a personal desire; never a part of the Amb Revit Plan and isn't
Cmnty input, Amb WG heard long presentation from both groups -- ADRA and Mr Seddon's group (Amb Landing), spent better part of hour and a half, welcome to make comments at WG mtgs

{maybe so, but being able to talk and not vote limits one's role in making the recommendations somewhat, no?}

if desire of Ccl to meet again with those groups, happy to do it
RD: followed this closely, a resident of Hollyburn wch is between
good study, moderate soln; devt and status quo
Amb has its charm; all know probs, bizes not succeeding
know need to renov; question is extent
don't think Pople's comment unreasonable, use Edgemont model, bring in 1.5
staff is saying 1.5 or more with amenities
little bit of sympathy with Mr Seddon who are on the front lines on MDr
don't want to get off on HAF, I was one of those in 1992 who founded HAF, thought jazz, classical, and now has become pop music and we can hear it half way up the hill; can't imagine what it's like for those closer; sad forgotten about jazz classical, a lot of musicians excluded
change, once taken place can't go back; have to take that into consideration
so glitzy don't recognize ourselves; plan does protect the waterfront, no bldg on waterfront
seeks to combine biz area with waterfront; some modernization
something between devpr's paradise and status quo
looking forward to Town Hall mtg and some input
JC: I arrived about five to seven minutes before Elvis finished; cdn't hear ppl talking in my store
haven't heard any contact with those little bldg owners tearing down and building something else
where's buy in from prop owners themselves? are they willing?
they have no intention of even opening that mail
[prop] retirement pkg for them and will just sit on it
SJN: did have a mtg with the prop owners at SAC
if you do these things, wd like to renov; some hv probs with parking
group, some of larger props
low densities being proposed, think too low
Ccl can afford to be flexible; what are you proposing, prepared to look at it
15 or 16 projects taken place in last 20 years
with Ccl's sidewalks, traffic; renovating, improvements; some are prepared to devp
maybe some more solid tenants
nature of tenants has changed; short term tenancies
if we can turn direction, cmnty believes productive and successful, won't change over night
JC: have been approached by bldg owners; razed and replaced
SJN: slow; densities, maybe sit a little longer
Sop: Bean, gas statn, hv coffee, take my shoes in; many many services in that area, that is what wanted; used by 5 - 7K ppl daily basis
has to be for the citizens; citizen may take a walkabout
wrt presentation re bldg form and ht
modern day needs more ht than ... you're looking at 60ft of bldg
where is the interpretation of the character store, amenity, character biz person b/c of able to afford market rent
cite what we have in consideration here
hv decided to put a median down from 11th to 13th
some things shd be considered in overall plan, Amb Park Plan, Waterfront Plan, traffic-calming
Amenities policy coming up, bonus density; traffic patterns, parking probs
14th and Marine what we'd have to deal with soundproofing
13th and Marine reconfig
median, calming all the way up?
maybe shd be looking at this in terms of a master plan; to go to a town mtg in Oct, needs more work; maybe to a group other than those that were on the WG, specifically to those who live and shop in area
a lot of the work by staff, a lot of good hard work; how draw on it, leave it in isolation?
what makes us continually want envmt, change not as great as open space a nice walkabout
have to keep devt; thought a long time, a lot of work on the Amb corridor
CAO: that's the chicken and the egg -- master plan or components; staff struggled with
tried to get at least some conceptually or in principle
MS: all of us wd like to see some positive change in Amb
open up a dangerous precedent when overly concerned with viability of biz
not up to Ccl that bizs are viable or dvprs' projects viable
if that were the case, we'd upset the entire capitalist system

{do think that Cclr Smith does exaggerate just a teensy bit the effect WV can have on the entire capitalist system.......}

why wd you want to run a widget factory in Hamilton and take all the risk when you can move to WV, go into biz, and have Ccl guarantee that your project is going to be viable.  I don't think that makes any sense.
the other thing that concerns me about the Amb plan is in view of what happened to us on EvDr, I think it's v risky to start stating ahead, before we even see what the project is going to look like, what the public benefit is, why talking about how high bldg can be and FAR?
each project shd be evaluated on its merits as proposals come forward
the idea of designating residential and commercial in areas of Amb makes a lot of sense
but v serious mistake if we cast in stone heights and densities of these colour-coded blocks and stars  before seeing what the project looks like or what amenities are

{yes, quite apart from the gift of allowing 1.75FAR right of the bat!  Keep in mind the residential max is .35 and some structures in the Amb biz dist are .40 look at how much of an impact that is.  And the WG includes bonusing to 2.75!}

9:27 JF: Amb Town Ctr strategy did incorp the Park, etc
didn't compromise the Park plan or Arts/Culture, complemented; symbiotic relationship
Ccl to some degree has an oblig wrt biz viability; after all, tax base
nowhere to shop, oblig to encourage viable; provide services we need
I don't want to walk past blank windows; no life on the street; often can't find shoe repair
envmtal sustainability, renovating small sites
lawnmower repair shop; need places to go
if remodelled and rents regressive, then adding on to lane and having shops there like mews, like Bean Around the World, go out and sit on deck on the lane
little pizza parlour, can take place
cmnty we want; comm and resid, need provide ppl who will use don't have to get into cars
class A ofc space
number of ppl coming by bus to WV working by day, getting on bus going back home
rather than ppl having to go into Vancouver
many merchants in area struggling, having a hard time
they're interested and excited about opps that exist for them
Mayor: next steps; think Oct 3 too close a time frame
wkshop Oct 15, think about notifying whole cmnty
interested having cmnty go through whole -- lanes, parking, really common sense things
public process ...  anticipated wd become v hi profile and wd be partnering
our cmnty ofc there; recommendation from staff how public can become informed
SJN: wd prefer to report back next week on that
intent in Amb area is solely to make it more practical for ppl in area
most of the residents that have spoken live in bldgs built in last 20 years, in third storey not permitted, attractive enough for ppl wanting to come out to protect
lot of activity, outdoor seating, didn't exist before
Amb area had gone through constant change
key is wch change; from staff's perspective, av to set parameters; able to respond when ppl ask
as well, we tell ppl what they're not allowed to do in Amb; equally imp to do that
you're not being pressed to do this b/c something's going to happen a month from now; by end of year
CAO: important to identify what Ccl and cmnty support so can go ahead; if we don't have consenseus, fear nothing will happen; try to find where consensus is on Ccl so at least move fwd with that
RD: don't think what ADRA is suggesting is wrong; need to sit down and listen and incorporate suggestions; seem what we shd do is what ppl like and accept
Hollyburn Med Ctr, and X; know four but set back but ppl like
contribute a lot; cd be model; cd have three storeys of market place; add a lot to Amb; we can be flexible
maybe not Oct 3, sit down ad listen for a while; don't think what ADRA is saying is that far off
Mayor: change second part to staff report back wrt Amb T Strategy?
CAO: and possible mtg Oct 15
VV: thank HWG for classic car display; although I arrived after Elvis impersonator finished; congratulate everyone involved
Sop:  week ago glorious day for Coho Fest; one of busiest in years; Cypress Bowl school...helping; all in all for benefit of salmon
JC: on your behalf last Friday opening of Legacies Now in Park Royal North; shd drop by, well done booth, lots of info
9:40  [Receipt]
Mayor: I've got two mbrs of public wishing to speak and some items we must get to on our regular ccl agenda; they're timing issues, unless prepared to wait until end of that, but right now I'll ask for Misha Taylor
Misha Taylor: Bayridge; comment about WV Cmnty Discussion Forum I read about in the NS News
discussion on line brilliant; bring cmnty together to discuss; broad cross section; issues imp to all
however needs to be heavily advertised and more importantly, easy to access [Forum]
as a busy parent I might have 15 minutes on a computer, but if it takes ten steps to find the forum, I might not have any time to read the posts; this is huge, IMO
WV cd get more ppl interested in civic issues; this level of govt affects right in their and their nbrs' backyard
learned ev family will get a flyer about this forum -- inundated, sometimes paper gets lost in shuffle lost and forgotten
voice not heard; same with this flyer, put on WV homepage as well, front and centre as well as how to use
informed and involved decision-making process from comfort of own home; Mayor and Ccl to access opinions of all residents, not just with those with extra time involved
applaud [idea of having forums on website], and open discussion about what affects all of us in the District.
JC: had this conversation with staff this morning, and that flyer you referred to is going into mail on Monday, new link appears in the flyer; watch for that simplified
Mayor: and website is being worked on b/c it is awkward.
I'm going to ask Carolanne Reynolds if you cd wait until the regular Ccl mtg b/c there's really items I have to get to; unless you can be v v brief, and -- one minute
CR: I have four questions and you can decide how you want to--
Mayor: -- real timing issues on the regular ccl agenda, I'd be happy to come to you afterwards if we cd deal with them
CR: so I'll have three minutes afterward?
Mayor: yes; time will be less of an issue then.  Thank you.  Motion to adjourn.
1.  Council resolved into the September 17, 2007 Special Regular Meeting of Council.
VV: wish to add what was represented by the architects earlier in the evening
add a motion wrt the interpretation of the FAR
Mayor: item no 9, recommendation from Dir of Planning
RD: not sure -- item for Hugo Ray for Sept 24 premature.  Cd we postpone that until Oct?
Mayor: then item no 10; skip item 4, and move to Item no 5, reading first time and setting date.

3.  ADOPTION OF MINUTES -- No items scheduled.
4. RECOMMENDED: ... ratified.
5. Zoning Amendment Bylaw No. 4525, 2007 and Development Permit 05-016 for 1305 Marine Drive (Shell Gas Station)
RECOMMENDED:  THAT ... now introduced and read a first time in short form.
RECOMMENDED:  THAT ... be considered at a concurrent Public Hearing / Public Meeting to be held on Monday, October 15, 2007 at 7:00 p.m. in the Municipal Hall Council Chamber.
VV: don't have info on the effect of having another convenience store on number we already have, according to a mbr of the public; don't know why losing a repair station wd be of help to the cmnty; don't think we have proper rationale
JC: my motion is for setting a date
Mayor: nevertheless, Cclr V, that's your prerogative
Sop: now gas stn being changed over; need another convenience store? extremely valuable
service they provide, tire changing, oil changing, motor works and other things
have one at 22nd; kind of services like to have in cmnty
wd like to know if altering of pumps; timely to have a close look at envtal status, contaminants under road; time now as at 15th and Marine to go through that process
when report?
Mayor: maybe best hold that hearing and then go from there; Ccl can direct
Sop: why to take to third reading
Mayor: we're not, introducing this and setting Public Hearing on Oct 15
Mayor: skip 6, move to 7
6. Information Report on the November 2006 Report of the Premier's Council on Aging and Seniors=92 Issues
RECOMMENDED:  THAT the Report dated September 4, 2007 from the Manager of Social Services ... be received for information.
7. Dog Walking Enforcement/Regulations in Ambleside Park
        Report to be provided on table.
MS: interim policy
Sept 13th; as indicated on map; Pound Rd and rd parallel to rlwy tracks; staff report back
Sop: how do you get there?
Rebecca Black: been out
upset about exclusion; off leash area is in native land; have you a contingency plan? where going to walk dogs?
Mayor: good question
RBlack: strikes fear
Mayor: will hv to be addressed, don't know when
point of tonight fair and make sense, good thing to refer to staff
RBlack: b/c this bylaw strictly enforced this summer; clout
never been approached by a bylaw ofcr and guess I was breaking walking across to beach; watch many ppl do it and can look out my window and see them
dogs like family mbrs
when something historically has never been enforced, if not broke why fix it
wondering why need change at this time
dogs can walk on sidewalk Vancouver City and Stanley Park on leash, not huge
Cathy [didn't catch name]: dog park stuff
will be mtg with you Pam on Thurs; confusion in letter received
clearly indicates crown land only part we are allowed to run our dogs on no access to tickets there but holding map; confused, as well as aggression and perhaps Chief of Police needs to sit with us b/c ppl hav been threatened
bylaw ofcrs are aggressive, they've come to homes, they've to my home; he was asked to leave my premises and threatened to call the police so I therefore invited a police officer
given a ticket under traffic, $150, I'm on disability, limited income; ppl in wheelchairs down back exit
not providing a safe entrance for ppl to the park
mixing cars, cyclists, dogs, baby carriages, etc; segregating us from the rest of society; need to for those with disabilities need to provide a safe spot; elderly woman aggressively ticketed on a scooter,...
9:58  JC: motion to extend
Mayor: motion carries, feel have to loop back
[JC then read motion for Item 5 b/c hadn't been voted on; then continued wrt dogs]
Sheena Vennesland: will work if owners take trouble
sad prob; partly demographics -- smaller yards, apts; everywhere; Seattle $150 and $500 for on the beach infractions and saw two on beach this morning.
Prague trying to get public attention; those who want park space without dogs b/c of groundnesting birds
the dog to a degree has been used as a means to an end, relieve loneliness, all v good things
how many ppl have you seen with dogs on a leash? fouling blvd outside someone else's home
I've had dogs all my life; trained to stay and heel, far more sociable, toilet procedures
don't have time so hostility fines and restrictions; passing a street test
Linda Wong: questions re bylaws
for older ppl with small dogs who live in Amb and Dund; some don't own vehicles any longer
only John Lawson, Dund, ... or walk up and down
can't get to washroom facilities in Amb Pk, Dund; can't leash them to go and ise those facilities
older ppl have right to enjoy sit on bench look at water with little pookie on lap
discrimination; sometimes pet the only thing left in their life
you can go anywhere, Grouse Grind -- what are you providing for your taxpayers?
Mayor: to review
LW: a lot of ppl cannot get there; use some common sense and I don't think we're doing that right now
Mayor: to provide clarification about the VSun story
CAO: story of a person on a wheelchair two tix -- it was warning ticket with no fine
park in question HBay, staff recog
that bylaw on agenda tonight for adoption
Mayor: voted on No 7?
SSch: no but mover and seconder
8. Animal Control Bylaw 4208, 2000, Amendment Bylaw 4520, 2007
Mayor: H Bay
Ann Pepper: a cpl of facts overlooked
your staff brought to attention; five reasons shd not be adopted
daycare used Tantalus b/c no green space, and no shade; daycare running for a long time
parents wd not be happy dogs running dogs they don't know
2nd, Gleneagles is promoting a walk to school policy to reduce car congestion and health envmt reasons
Tantalus is on the route for many of these chn; timing for preschool ends, returning, etc; potential for conflict again
3rd, amt of green space in area; did bring map; grass areas that are flat but for lower Gleneagles is quite a hike so Tantalus only park flat and can be used as a playing field, closest for HBay
4th, dog owners can go to Seaview Walk; duplication
100% of owners do not pick up 100% of dog poo
chn playing ball, health issue; more dog owners so potential increasing
Tantalus is a small park, not suitable for walking dog on leash, walking in circle
criteria, what makes a good one?
Seattle has come up with no existing ppl-use b/c becomes displaced
when I talked to a staff mbr, staff believed not used v much for chn but certainly a lot; used by preschoolers
Seattle also endorses, mixed uses not a good idea
5th looking at HBay to and from the ferry, srs, tourists, doubt about it working unless properly fenced in; afraid decision made a little too quickly on this; seems to be an on the fly decision
I found out from an offhand comment by staff last week
so think cmnty hasn't been consulted properly -- HBay, ppl don't want to lose Tantalus
10:10  why do we always have to keep developing, some things work just fine as it is; diff to make change
can't we wait to see how dog bylaws work out; not change in HBay
really my recommendation, be deferred for a year HBay and not adopted for Tantalus
CAO: not on the fly; over a number of years
HBay is being used and getting opposition to ticketing occurring
wrt Tantalus, not suggesting if you walk dog through park won't get ticket; certainly we can monitor 10:13 RD: Animal Amendment Bylaw for adoption; add'l correspondence
JC last speaker mentioned health issues, not obvious like stepping in the stuff
anyone with lowered immune system virus or whatever particularly susceptible to dog urine and can't see it; life-theateneing, keep it in mind
MS: have to admit agree with comments of last speaker; used to live in Gleneagles and walked with kids in Tantalus and dogs Seaview
nice park for kids; question if real need to make it a dogs on leash park
enjoyed by small chn who don't have a lot of alternatives in that area
Sop slightly of same mind; voting on 8 -- amendment bylaw?
Mayor: given three readings last week
Sop: ferry system and lineups; have to be basically practical
concrete patio, two hours ferry wait then dog in car; down in that little corner reasonable
Tantalus even though
not at this time; wd like to go out and see; go to Ron's Walk?
Mayor: ask Clerk how to divide? or if Ccl wishes to defer
Ssch: wd hv to come back or cd defer
CAO: motion if wish Ccl not to enforce until made decision re ferry area
Mayor: motion made for nonenforcement; first defer motion to
SSch: Sept 14 and Oct 1 reg mtg
Mayor: defer to Sept 24
CARRIED  with followup motion non enforcement
10:18 CAO: portion of HBay
Mr Nicholls do you have a motion for us?
SJN: That staff report by November 15 as to whether or not the District's current methods of calculating building height, retaining-wall height, natural grade, and FAR, particularly with respect to covered decks and exempt space such as basements are consistent with the intent of our bylaws and what changes could be made to address issues of concern and any ambiguities.
Sop:  when back?
Mayor Nov 15th
{but it omits Sop's and VV's expressed wish for enforcement of bylaws as written and intended now; wonder what will happen b/c I've heard differing opinions from mbrs of Ccl.}
9. Consent Agenda Items =96 Reports and Correspondence List
[Hugo Ray added to agenda]
RD: next week decision on Hugo Ray Park, and minister making decision in October so seems premature; before hearing status of grant; feel we shd put off till
Mayor: Oct 22
RD: by that time minister decided; if he turns it down, expansion won't work; put it off for four weeks
Sop: wd like to think a good way to go but sitting all summer long without enough communication with residents
out of hand; innuendo; no formal to residents about what's coming about
orig buildout now downsized
nobody's fault, it just happened; now without any consideration of area residents
now Mdm Mayor, and Kevin Pike mtg; why not a mtg, look for a win-win
somewhere down road or look for alternatives; just wasting time, cd hv bn dealing with this
VV: agree, think decision overdue; motion presupposes our decision wd be based on grant; think we shd go ahead next week
JC: contacted earlier today, number of the stakeholders not able to attend next week, asked for two weeks; disagree with Cclr Sop/VV; don't think we have sufficient information
grant application in limbo is a large amt of money and cd affect timetable; give us a little bit of time
CAO: Ccl has bn briefed; if not sufficient info to nbrhd out there, simply arrange mtg in next two weeks; not inclined to meet with us yet; delighted to go; Ccl give us direction
Brent Dozzi: staff have prepared a functional plan with presentation to Ministry; happening next week; glacial speed ministry staff av
v keen to make it work at District level; perhaps deferring for one month, cd have approval
JF: quite a while, mtg with nbrs earlier rather than [later]; to provide correct information, best way to go; defer mtg until we have relevant information; complete, kindness to nbrs; agreement with deferral
10:26 [some opposed but motion carries]
Mayor: refer remaining to next mtg of Ccl
SSch: ratification?
Mayor: thx
[VV moved; CARRIED]
10. Development Applications Status List: received for information
This and rest deferred to next mtg, but Mayor had asked me to wait (even though I was on list with Misha Taylor at end of Cmte of the Whole, before the reg ccl mtg started) so said:
Mayor: Public Question Period.  Carolanne Reynolds.  Thank you for waiting
Carolanne Reynolds: I have some questions that can be answered later.
= The first thing is that I saw in the North Shore News something about a questionnaire going out and you'll recall earlier this year -- when I reminded Mayor and Council that the draft questions were to be circulated to Ccl and cmnty groups before they went out.  When I saw it was to be done the end of Sept and we hadn't seen them yet, I thought I'd ask.
= WRT, properties in Ambleside and information you're providing, I have asked for it several times and perhaps you cd hv it for next time, the percentage of places that are .4FAR b/c with someone suggesting 1.75 to 2.75, it's important to know what proportion we have that's small now and how much of a difference that wd make, so ppl can have some idea of how much difference.
I do agree that everybody wants redevt. 
I really was quite intrigued with Cclr Smith's suggestion that we just keep going one at a time.  I know that's what we've been doing for many years and it has worked somewhat, and it gives us flexibility.  I know it's also desirable -- as the MMgr, the CAO, said, it's chicken and egg, so we do want an overall plan too, but rather than stop everything for this I think if continuing with one at a time with some sort of an idea wd be a good way to go.  The suggestion that a lot of these properties are going to stay small b/c on small lots, that's risible b/c of course devprs, you know are going to go in and put lots together so they will qualify [for a bigger higher building].
= The third thing is that the ccl workshops on the cmte procedures -- I think that's a great idea.  I was v excited to read about it, and to hear it's going to adhere to the Cmnty Charter.  I think that's great new move and I think that it's great that you're going to do that.
= As for the recommendations made by the Dundarave Neighbourhood area group, the first one is to give direction to staff to follow the OCP as it is written and intended.  There's no doubt they've been following it as they perceive it to be written, etc.  I'm not questioning that at all.  And they were right to bring that up that they were complying, doing that.  But the part that cd be acted on right now, before and whether you're going to do it in parts or phases that's a good idea too, but what, the part that cd be helpful right now is as it said: to give direction to staff that they way they interpret, the places where they have choices, flexibility and leeway, that the way they interpret it be the way it was intended, and that is to reduce mass and height, b/c right now some of the decisions they are making increase them, wch are against, or are not in keeping with the intent as some ppl said.
Ccl is perfectly able to give direction to staff and say when you have a choice, when you are interpreting, wd you pls keep in mind our intention is to keep mass and height down, so that's something I hope Ccl will do.
Thank you v much.
Mayor: Mr Stuart, have you a comment on the survey?
CAO: in the process of drafting the kinds of issues we want to see in the survey; haven't got to the point of drafting the questions.  The RFP for the survey company closed last Friday; so we'll be sitting down and meeting with them, and we will be providing the draft questions to cmnty and Ccl for comment.
CR: tyvm -- just that it's close to the end of September!

=== WV Council AGENDA Sept 24 ===
2. ADOPTION OF MINUTES (for Sept 10)
3. L. Pierce, Transportation Planning Advisory Committee (TPAC), District of North Vancouver regarding Ride Club (Carpooling Pilot Project)
4. Development Variance Permit Application 07-021 (1881 22nd Street)
Additional Information: Memo dated September 20, 2007 from the Community Planner attaching a landscape plan for 1881 22nd Street.
At the September 10, 2007 meeting, Council received the report dated July 30, 2007 from the Community Planner titled "Development Variance Permit Application 07-021 (1881 22nd Street)", a copy of which is attached for reference.
RECOMMENDED: submissions received.
If Council wishes a further staff report, then:  RECOMMENDED: that staff report back
RECOMMENDED: THAT the DVP which would provide for a re-orientation of two existing legal non-conforming lots and two new single family homes with variances to siting and parking location be approved.
5. Development Variance Permit Application No. 07-024 (6655 Madrona Place)
At the September 10, 2007 meeting, Council received the report dated August 20, 2007 from the Community Planner titled "Development Variance Permit Application No. 07-024 (6655 Madrona Place)", a copy of which is attached for reference.
RECOMMENDED: submissions received.
If Council wishes a further staff report, then:  RECOMMENDED: that staff report back
RECOMMENDED: THAT the DVP which would allow for an existing two-car carport, built without permits by a previous owner, be approved.
6. Information Report on the November 2006 Report of the Premiers Council on Aging and Seniors Issues (to be received for information).
7. Draft Regional Affordable Housing Strategy (July 2007)
1. The GVRD Board be advised that West Vancouver Council supports the overall directions of the Draft Regional Affordable Housing Strategy (July 2007), on the understanding that support for specific proposals related to targets, regional development cost charges and a regional affordable housing trust fund would be subject to municipal consideration of the forthcoming technical analysis; and
2. The issues around affordable housing and potential strategies for addressing them be discussed as part of the Community Dialogue on Neighbourhood Character and Housing.
8. Branding the District of West Vancouver as a Desirable Employer (for receipt)

9. Ambleside Town Centre Strategy: Notification and Town Hall Meeting
Information to be provided.

10. Animal Control Bylaw No. 4208, 2000 Amendment Bylaw No. 4520, 2007 - Horseshoe Bay Park Dog Control Designation
This item was deferred from the September 17, 2007 Special Regular Council Meeting.
This Bylaw received third reading at the September 10, 2007 Council Meeting.
THAT the report dated September 18, 2007 from the Manager of Bylaw & Licencing [sic] Services regarding Animal Control Bylaw No. 4208, 2000 Amendment Bylaw No. 4520, 2007 recommending that Bylaw No. 4208 be amended to convert the area of Horseshoe Bay Park east of the paved parking lot on 6317 Bay Street to a "dogs on leash" park area be received.
THAT the third reading ... be rescinded.
THAT Animal Control Bylaw No. 4208, 2000 Amendment Bylaw No. 4520, 2007 be amended as described in the report dated September 18, 2007 from the Manager of Bylaw & Licencing [sic] Services.
THAT Animal Control Bylaw No. 4208, 2000 Amendment Bylaw No. 4520, 2007, as amended, be read a third time.

{Pls note, I'm asking for clarification about this.  My understanding is that amendments can only be made at second reading.  Therefore second reading wd hv to be rescinded and then passed with the amendment.  Maybe the regulations/legislations have changed.  Third reading is then confirmation of that.  Adoption must occur at a later mtg.
Anyway, good thing they listened to the public and amended this!}

11. Local Area Service Lane Paving Construction 1300 Block Jefferson and Inglewood Avenue and 1160 =96 14th Street Bylaw No. 4526, 2007 (for three readings)
12. Change to October 15, 2007 Council Meeting Schedule
RECOMMENDED: THAT the Committee of the Whole Council Meeting scheduled for Monday, October 15, 2007 at 7:00 pm in the Municipal Hall Council Chamber be changed to a Regular Council Meeting to be held on the same day, time, and location.

13. Consent Agenda Items =96 Reports and Correspondence List
The following Consent Agenda items may be considered separately or in one recommendation.
RECOMMENDED: THAT the Consent Agenda items as follows be approved:
=B7 Item 14 =96 Development Applications Status List; and
=B7 Item 15 =96 Correspondence Lists.
14. Development Applications Status List (received for information)
(this correspondence was originally listed in and was deferred from the September 17, 2007 Special Regular Agenda)
Requests for Delegation  --  No items presented.
Action Required
(1) August 28, 2007, regarding Proposal to Construct Boat Moorage Facilities Along Waterfront
Referred to the Director of Planning, Lands & Permits for consideration and response.
(2) September 03, 2007, regarding Surveillance, Monitoring and Reporting of Ocean Water Quality
Referred to the Director of Parks & Community Services for consideration and response.
(3) September 05, 2007, regarding Serious Problem with Curbside Recycling Program
Referred to the Director of Engineering and Transportation for consideration and response.
(4) September 06, 2007, regarding Curbside Recycling Pickup
Referred to the Director of Engineering and Transportation for consideration and response.
(5) B. Binnie, President =96 UBCM, September 06, 2007, regarding The British Columbia Climate Action Charter
Referred to the Mayor & Council for consideration and response.
No Action Required (receipt only)
(6) Committee and Board Meeting Minutes
        (a) West Vancouver Police Board =96 July 26, 2007
(7) G. Stewart, President =96 Capilano Community Services Society, August 15, 2007, regarding Thank You for Community Grant and 2006-2007 Annual Report
Attachments available for viewing in Legislative Services Department.
(8) A.S. Hilsen, Municipal Clerk =96 District of North Vancouver, August 28, 2007, regarding North Shore Child Care Needs Assessment =96 Final Report =93Today=92s Children, Tomorrow=92s Leaders: Child Care Needs on the North Shore, June 2007=94
Attachments available for viewing in Legislative Services Department.
(9) A.S. Hilsen, Municipal Clerk =96 DNV, August 28, 2007, regarding Federal Revenue Sharing with Municipalities Reallocation of One-Sixth of the GST to Municipalities as a =93Targeted Infrastructure Renewal /Replacement Fund=94
(10) September 03, 2007, regarding Animal Control Officer Position should be Permanent
(11) G. Clarke, Chair, Board of Directors and L. Berg, President & Chief Executive Officer =96 Vancouver Airport Authority, undated, regarding Invitation to Attend the Vancouver Airport Authority Annual Reception at the Union of British Columbia Municipalities (UBCM) Convention
(12) E. McLaughlin, Chief Executive Officer =96 Hollyburn Country Club, September 05, 2007, regarding Proposed Expansion Plan for Hollyburn Country Club, Plan 2007
(13) September 07, 2007, regarding Rezoning of Shell Station at 13th Street and Marine Drive
Responses to Correspondence  --  No items presented.
Responses to Questions in Question Period  --  No items presented.
-> Correspondence received from September 08, 2007 up to September 14, 2007
Requests for Delegation
(14) N. Henderson, Chair =96 North Shore Family Court and Youth Justice Committee, September 10, 2007, regarding 2006 Annual Report and Review of the Draft Courtwatch Report
Referred to the Municipal Clerk for response regarding delegation scheduling. Attachments available for viewing in the Legislative Services Department.
(15) September 12, 2007, regarding Existing Bylaws Pertaining to Bed and Breakfasts
Referred to the Municipal Clerk for response regarding delegation scheduling.
Action Required
(16) A. Sundberg, Co-Chair =96 Greater Vancouver Regional Steering Committee on Homelessness, September 07, 2007, regarding Proclamation of Homelessness Action Week
Referred to the Municipal Clerk for response.
(17) September 10, 2007, regarding Night Time Blasting =96 Sea to Sky Highway
Referred to the Director of Engineering and Transportation for consideration and response.
(18) September 11, 2007, regarding Vegetation Slashing =96 St. Georges Avenue
Referred to the Director of Engineering and Transportation for consideration and response.
(19) September 11, 2007, regarding Dog Bylaw Enforcement =96 Horseshoe Bay
Referred to the Director of Administrative Services for consideration and response.
No Action Required (receipt only)
(20) Committee and Board Meeting Minutes
        (a) Design Review Committee =96 May 03, 2007
        (b) North Shore Advisory Committee on Disability Issues =96 June 28, 2007
(21) D.R. Corrigan, Mayor =96 City of Burnaby, August 28, 2007, regarding Port Mann/Highway 1 Project
Attachments available for viewing in the Legislative Services Department.
(22) September 06, 2007, regarding Ambleside Beach Cleanup
(23) September 07, 2007, regarding Enrolment at Sentinel School
(24) September 10, 2007, regarding Dangerous Train Crossings
(25) September 10, 2007, regarding New Streetlight Installation on Greentree Road
(26) C. Pickard, British Columbia/Yukon Regional Organizer =96 Council of Canadians, September 10, 2007, regarding Permanent Exemption from Trade Investment and Labour Mobility Agreement
(27) September 10, 2007, regarding Proposed Ambleside Marina
(28) September 11, 2007, regarding Dog Bylaw Enforcement in Horseshoe Bay
(29) September 12, 2007, regarding Dog Bylaw Enforcement in Horseshoe Bay
(30) B. Reid, Board Director =96 Kay Meek Centre, September 12, 2007, regarding Invitation to Attend: Breakfast Reception with the Board & Staff =96 October 30, 2007
(31 - 34) September 12/13, 2007, regarding Dog Bylaw Enforcement
(35) S.E. Dowey, City Clerk =96 City of North Vancouver, September 13, 2007, regarding North Shore Family Court and Youth Justice Committee =96 Municipal Rotation
(36) September 14, 2007, regarding Dog Bylaw Enforcement
(37) One of 168 form Emails (168), September 17, 2007, regarding Please Save Hugo Ray Park
Responses to Correspondence  --  No items presented
Responses to Questions in Question Period  --  No items presented.

=== LANGUAGE ===
>  World Punctuation Day is Sept 24:  http://www.bdb.co.za/shackle/articles/world_punctuation_day.htm
>  LICENCE/LICENSE (yet again)
In the last issue (WVM27), b/c email was ignored or not read, care was taken to explain the difference between licence (noun) and license (verb) b/c that agenda (Sept 17th) contained a non-existent word on the agenda, ie one not used in the UK or even the ever-permissive US.  Incredible that it's not only not correct on the agenda Sept 24th (item 10, twice, see the [sic]), but also it doesn't match the position title on the DWV website, wch has Ms LH as Manager, Bylaw & Licence Services wch is correct.
May I point out this was correct after pointed out last year but for some reason this year apparently a mbr of staff has decided to change to an incorrect spelling, and no one dare point out or challenge.
What is this indicative of?
> KOK-SAGHYZ -- etymology as history
Extraordinary.  You all know I'm fascinated with language but this word -- and it's an English word -- is exceptional.  While looking up a word in my trusty Chambers dictionary I came across the densest, most evocative definition I think I've ever seen:
kok-saghyz, noun.
a species of dandelion (Taraxacum kok-saghyz) from the Tien Shan, grown in Russia, etc., for rubber-making.
Doesn't that conjure up lots of images!
I happen to know that Shan means mountain in Chinese.  So here we have a weed, dandelion, the bane of our lawn, used for rubber!!!  And then, are the Russians sneaking over the mountains and bringing back this weed (wch surely needs no encouragement to spread), and then setting up rubber plantations?  But wait.  Rubber plantations are in Malaysia.  And that's latex or whatever from trees.
So I had to google for that:
kok-sa=B7ghyz (kks-gz)
n.  A central Asian dandelion (Taraxacum koksaghyz) having fleshy roots that yield a form of rubber.
[New Latin, specific epithet, from Tatar k=F6k-sagyz : k=F6k, root + sagyz, rubber.]
The American Heritage=AE Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition copyright =A92000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Thesaurus Legend:
Noun 1.  kok-saghyz - perennial dandelion native to Kazakhstan cultivated for its fleshy roots that have high rubber content
kok-sagyz, Russian dandelion, Taraxacum kok-saghyz
blowball, dandelion - any of several herbs of the genus Taraxacum having long tap roots and deeply notched leaves and bright yellow flowers followed by fluffy seed balls
-----As an aside, my dictionary has ghyz (you'll see below many have gyz) perhaps H added to make clear pronounced as a hard G.  Above, it appears it might have been without initially........
Well, I cdn't stop there, so here we go--
SAGYZ gets:
kok-sagyz - definition by dict.die.net
kok-sagyz n : perennial dandelion native to Kazakh Republic of Russia cultivated for its fleshy roots which have high rubber content [syn: Russian dandelion ...
Maps, Weather, and Airports for Sagyz-Kandyk, Kyrgyzstan
kok-sagyz: Information from Answers.com
Note: click on a word meaning below to see its connections and related words. The noun kok-sagyz has one meaning: Meaning #1 : perennial dandelion.
Russian dandelion, kok-saghyz, kok-sagyz, Taraxac...: Information ...
Russian dandelion , kok-saghyz , kok-sagyz , Taraxacum kok-saghyz perennial dandelion native to Kazakh Republic of Russia cultivated for its fleshy...
kok-sagyz, kok-sagyzes- WordWeb dictionary definition
Noun: kok-sagyz. Perennial dandelion native to Kazakhstan cultivated for its fleshy ... kok-sagyz
then to SAGHYZ
kok-saghyz: definition, usage and pronunciation - YourDictionary.com
Kok-saghyz definition, words related to kok-saghyz, proper usage and pronunciation of the word kok-saghyz from YourDictionary.com.
......So now we have China, Russia, Kyrgyzstan, and Kazakhstan
what a fascinating background to the dandelion.  And to think all we do is make salad from the leaves.  Oh yes, there's such a thing as dandelion wine.
There it is brightening our lives all over the place with those sunshine yellow flowers, willing to feed us and slake our thirst and we cast it aside, refer to it pejoratively, and consider it a weed.  Yet it has so much to offer.
One of our unsung-hero plants....
G adds: C's non-linear free-associative right hemisphere runs amok again!

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