HOPING FOR AN INDIAN SUMMER!

=  MAIN ITEMS Ccl mtg Sept 24: DVPs for 1881 22nd and 6655 Madrona; Ambleside Town Ctr; Dog Control Bylaw; Lots of Correspondence!

=  Vive le Canada; (Glenn Gould, Cdn pianist extraordinaire); ANIMALWATCH (funny); UPDATES -- WV; WEBWATCH (serious); Calendar to Oct 4th

Mayor's Remarks at Swearing-In; Nbrhd Character (urging enforcement of bylaws re height/mass) by Dund Nbrhd Assn; ccl mtgs must end at 10pm?; Ambleside Town Ctr; Dog-Walking Enforcement/Regulations; Hugo Ray Pk; PQP Ccl reminded cmnty groups were to see draft citizen survey questions, Ccl urged to provide more info on present bldg FARs in Amb and to give direction to staff to interpret bylaws as intended to reduce mass and height in nbrhds.

=  Ccl AGENDA Sept 24; Language (World Punctuation Day; who at DWV still can't differentiate between nouns and verbs?; what's a kok-saghyz is? -- etymology as history); Politi-ku; Quotations

-  playing in a hammock:        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rxNJPR94u0

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIpGFE_LKiE  and  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kekVAwH-nVg

-  unbelievable polar bear: http://speakingoffaith.publicradio.org/programs/play/audiogallery/soundseen.shtml

ALEX, THE FAMOUS AFRICAN GREY PARROT PASSES....intelligence of a five-year old (above primates): http://www.economist.com/displaystory.cfm?story_id=9828615

There's a youth shelter on the North Shore.  It's in NV for youth aged 13 to 18.  WV comprises 25% of the population of the North Shore, however 40% of the youth using it are from WV.

We have just found a salmon carcass in Brothers, believed to be a pink salmon.  This is quite unusual for Brothers Creek, so we will be starting our salmon surveys very soon. If you would like to participate, call WV Streamkeepers 628 1123.

> EAGLERIDGE BLUFFS UPDATE -- A week long celebration of Betty K's release from prison!

Vancouver's mighty 78-year-old grandmother has just spent six months in jail for trying to stop the destruction of Eagleridge Bluffs. This is an opportunity to welcome her back and show her in person our appreciation and admiration.

Wed 5 - 7pm Sept 26:  --  Rally with Betty at the Law Courts (Hornby & Smithe)

Rally at the Law Courts. Let the judges know that Betty's back in town! Celebrity speakers, First Nations dancing, music and general revelry

Speakers: Chief Capilano, Rex Weyler, Joe Foy, Adriane Carr, David Eby, Sue Rowan, Ivan Doumenc, Tzeporah Berman or Valerie Langer, Cameron Ward, Damian Kettlewell, Charles Boylan, Conrad Schmidt, Monika Sheardown

Singers: Nu-Chal-Nuth Mike Fraser, Edith Wallace, Spirathon, Wendy Hainstock

Fri Sept 28: -- Ride along with Betty at the Critical Mass bike ride

        Meet at 5:30pm at Vancouver Art Gallery, Howe and Georgia

Doors open at 8pm; a fun event with speakers and lots of dancing, bands, performances, great DJs and much more dancing. The event is a fund raiser for her legal expenses.

Cost: $5 if you arrive with Critical Mass (Betty will be on the critical mass bike ride); $10 otherwise

=== WEBWATCH -- From the Web 2007 Sept 19

o   Number of U.S .Military personnel sacrificed (officially acknowledged) in America's War On Iraq is 3,788, see http://icasualties.org/oif/

o  Cost of U.S. War and Occupation of Iraq   $452,668,226,354

o  Greenspan: Euro Gains As Reserve Choice  by AP

o  Locked up in the green zone:  U.S. Bans Overland Travel by Diplomats in Iraq:

The U.S. commander in Iraq has issued a stark warning to Gordon Brown of the 'devastating consequences' of pulling British troops out of the region too early.  http://snipurl.com/1qvsa

REMEMBER the Farmers' Markets:

After Truss's book I wanted to start the Royal Society for the Protection of the Apostrophe since so many treat it like a decoration of sprinkles on icing, so was intrigued when I came across this.  Turns out it's WORLD PUNCTUATION DAY: September 24th

http://www.bdb.co.za/shackle/articles/world_punctuation_day.htm

        ~ 4:30 - 6:30 ~ Finance and Audit Cmte

        ~ 7pm ~ Cmnty Service Providers Forum

Also: DEADLINE for nominations for Environmental Awards: see http://www.westvancouver.ca/article.asp?a=5289&c=1023

[Don't you just love the DWV website's URLs?]

        ~ 7:30pm ~ Child Care Services WG

~ 7pm ~ WV Historical Society mtg at Srs' Ctr: The Heritage Home in WV

Peter Miller of the North Shore Heritage Preservation Society (re preserving historic/distinctive bldgs in NV and WV); Stephen Mikicich, Sr WV Planner (The Heritage Strategic Plan and the WV Heritage Register); and a film presented by Dr Olga Kempo ("Margaret Martin Built a House", the story of an Edmonton home restored to its 1907 grace).

        ~ 4:30 - 6:30pm ~ Design Review Cmte [MOVED to Oct 4]

        ~ 5:30pm ~ Rodgers Crk WG -- PROBABLY! -- NOPE, cancelled for now

 We pull for three hours, but if you can come for only an hour please join us.  Dress for the weather in old clothes and bring work gloves. Meet at the upper kiosk in the parking lot.

        ~ 3 - 7pm ~ Way Out West Fest - Gleneagles Cmnty Ctr

SATURDAY Sept 29th.  West Vancouver Streamkeepers will celebrate Rivers Day with a display and information table at the rearing pond at Kings and 20th Street from 10am - 3pm. Coho and cutthroat fry caught in the pond will be on view as well as insect life from McDonald Creek. This pond is thriving with  fish and invertebrate life.  Help us plant some native species along the creek.  We will supply plants and shovels, cookies and soft drinks.

SUNDAY Sept 30th.  Mark Angelo will be at the Capilano Dam in the early morning, and then at the DFO Fish hatchery from 11am - 3pm. There  will be displays, information hand outs, and tours.

OCTOBER         THIRD: ~ 6pm ~ Cmnty Ctr Governance WG at Srs' Ctr

                FOURTH: ~ 4:30pm ~ Design Review Cmte (Moved from Sept 27)

+++ SFU Courses: Sept 28-29: Urban Design: Theory and Practice: http://www.sfu.ca/city/course2popup.htm

+++  CHAMBER OF COMMERCE CORNER [926 6614; www.chamber.westvan.org]

 == Wed Sept 26th  ~ 5 - 7pm ~  Member Showcase at Steamworks

The event is located in the private room at the back of the restaurant.  STEAMWORKS will be providing delicious complimentary appetizers, and there is a full no-host bar.   There will also be door prizes.  FREE - RSVP required for appetizer preparation

Heather Aston, Marie Price, Rina Pita, William Steinberg, Ingunn Kemble, Marja-Leena Rathje, Patricia Baldwin, Valerie Metz, Susan Campbell, Arnold Shives, Jane Adams,Peter Kiss, Tanya Gleave, Gillian Armitage, Michiko Suzuki, Wayne Eastcott, Ross Penhall, Gordon Smith

*  FRIENDS OF THE LIBRARY BOOK SALE

          - Mbrs-only SALE 6:30 - 8:30pm Thursday Sept 20th (mbrships $10, av at the door)

          - BOOK SALE 10am - 4pm Sat (21st) and Sun (22nd)

The Future of Food -- Unravels the complex web  of market and political forces that are changing the nature of what we eat. Discussion moderated by Harry Greenwood. No registration required.

Thursday, Sept. 27, 6:30 pm, Peter J. Peters Room

+++  WV ARTS COUNCIL +++ visit www.silkpurse.ca for events (most ticketed)

here's one coming soon but unfortunately on a ccl mtg night (full description was on WVM27):

+++  WV ARTS COUNCIL +++ visit www.silkpurse.ca for events (most ticketed)

7:02  CALL TO ORDER

1.  APPROVAL OF AGENDA: Amended: add Item 3

Mayor: wd like to read remarks I gave at Swearing-In of Chief Heed

Police Bd will be discussing the strategic plan on Thursday at Bd Mtg, then Chief will be coming here

public input

[text of speech supplied to me]

7:08

2.  DELEGATION -- L. Gibbs, Dundarave Neighbourhood Association (DNA), regarding Development Issues in Dundarave  [SLIDES]

Tom Bowen: thanks for responding to my first letter

7:12  [text supplied]

Peter Miller:   Good evening, my name is Peter Miller....[text supplied]

7:15 Lock Gibbs: [text supplied; speaks to slides {my clarifications}]

7:27 -- Zoning bylaws ...  defined/not defined

max bldg ht not defined -- higher and higher as much as 50ft

tyvm for being patient; one more person wanting to speak

Mayor: well, Cmte of Whole so can be more.  Is it Jann Gibbs?

JG: want to talk a bit more about feedback from the nbrhd

these kinds of things are totally devastating to nbrs happens to

how to identify problem, how change that

last time when we spoke we talked about talking to devprs, too tough to enforce; so tried to find another way

nbrs feeling alone and violated; bylaws, but not being respected; inequity here

the rights of the citizen, nbr, homeowner, not being honoured

on a personal note, it's too late for us

want to stop what is happening; don't want anyone to go through it

our recommendation maybe, not sure, someone to go to

hiring an ombudsman; an internal liaison, a facilitator, full-time as a resource to the cmnty

wd hv authority to investigate complaints and make recommendations

transparency and report back to Ccl

new team mbr for you, take pressure off you, and Bldg/Planning Dept - to xxxx

enable you to communicate with public

imbalance and inequities valuable to you

urge you add ppl, to make amends to these inequities

extra resources will alleviate ..... , improve relations

7:37  Sop: in the Zoning Bylaw it does refer to consideration of a storey, between two levels, so assume patio and deck above a storey

SJN: in FAR or bldg ht

Sop: read

had it relocated and

found.... 25ft under so still within ht limits of Zoning Bylaw

staff had interpreted as natural or ... grade

so second staff mbr looked at that and again came up with under 25ft

required devpr to hire a BCLS -- Richard Martin was hired, diff calculations than ours, but still bldg still within the 25ft ht -- it did comply with bylaws

cmnty review; try to separate this case or what's happening in general

in this case, met with both the owners and the bldr

did negotiate changes in bldg design, don't know if accepted by the nbrs

do recog impact; exacerbated that Lock's prop's view over left

know Locks {he means the Gibbses} are significantly impacted

Sop: reasonable then looking at bylaws, probably take two years, also Nbrhd Character WG mid2008

SJN: No, Madam Mayor, I wd not support Ccl making that motion.  We do enforce the bylaws as written

Sop: well, that'll be a point of discretion as to whether that happens or not

then my second one, that this Ccl look at an amendment to include covered decks in the FAR calculation

v simple, in the interim; [otherwise] take two years to get anywhere

Mayor: wd you like to respond to that?

SJN: for Ccl to decide

Mayor: cd we listen to the other comments and questions and then come back to you, Cclr Sop?

Sop: guess I've concluded that staff wd not accept enforcement of the bylaws as written and intended, as the original intent; I'm not saying what they're doing is wrong, just saying if we as Ccl look at the original intent of the bylaw, we did not anticipate that there wd be another exclusion to FAR, wch is now covered decks, wch creates a massing, wch affects the nbrhd, so logically, what wd we do?

this is a v sensible thing to do -- wait two years to do it or do it tonight?

SJN: the bylaw says FAR is measured between the exterior walls, to the outside of the exterior walls, there is no exterior wall on a covered deck, or an uncovered deck; that's why it's not measured to there; it says quite specifically where you measure it to.

in case of Locks {the Gibbses} next door, did it both ways; it was under height in either case

that deck is on the uphill side of house; if extended around, it wd have increased

only b/c on downside

JF: comment made wrt adequate staffing; do you feel that needs adjustment? need to hire?

SJN: there is an issue there; just lost two; ppl move around

staff here go out and enforce the bylaws, they go out

complex bldgs

VV: agenda we do move

cd be a reference to be used if Zoning Bylaw hasn't something tied down

allowing maximum rather than constrained

think overdue, a lot of ppl upset, overbuilding, blasting, [etc]

CAO: staff can try to craft a resolution

staff reporting as to whether the current methods of calculating are inconsistent and steps that cd be taken in the short term to address this

if result inconsistent with bylaws what can be done

VV: perhaps there'll be devprs out there; might be 50 new applications tomorrow

a few more weeks able to build to max

RD: two yrs came up but not based on any certainty

Planner said intend to rewrite the bylaws this fall, want to hold you to that

I know dept v busy, take all projects, pessimism so two years

don't know if we can craft them tonight

reasonable expectations and panic...

hold Mr Nicholls, revision of bylaws this fall

dept, devprs, citizens know where they stand

think our planners know what needs to be done, just a question of time and making it a priority

revised bylaws won't bring about miracles but will do something

by mid/early Dec want to see revised bylaws

SJN: overpromise and underdeliver is wrong

that depends on my being freed up to do it

that, you can adjust

really three critical things to deal with and rewrite later; that's probably

RD: that's what I'm suggesting, not that all bylaws sealed, signed, and delivered

don't see how we can do that tonight

give Mr Nicholls the time, get to work on this; can make progress in next months; know key issues

Mayor: work on motion to bring later?

Sop: referring to the Gibbses, their house, and what they saw

wd it result in lower massing?

SJN: if deck on street side wd hv resulted in higher house

still wd hv bn under 25ft on that specific property

Sop: wise to have a staff report back

what interpretation ... what the Locks {Gibbses} have faced

we're in process of hiring new planner; in the interim, what is it we can do, interpretation, what Gibbses have faced; have to get grips on this

everywhere we look yards gone, gardens disappearing to concrete and mass

Mayor: Cclr Smith?

MS: I live a block from the Gibbses; want to preserve the reason the reason I bought

60 x 120 -- 24 or 2500ft

drive around, clearly a lot bigger than that

Mr Nicholls said he cd quickly deal with max house above

IOW, that is where the nub of the issue is

probly quickly address; that calc done so we don't have houses larger than the surrounding nbrhds

SJN: whenever we propose something there are differences of opinions so interesting

VV: appreciate haven't the expertise tonight

two ppl we heard tonight are architects; go on with it, sufficient expertise

we are hearing from professionally qualified ppl

RD: if we have a report, ppl like Mr Bowen, Mr Miller, Mrs Gibbs, can have input

aware of problem but not details

expert insight; what can be done, what the possibilities are

indivs can have input

can't do it tonight; not in writing; mistake to move to quickly or to wait too long

keep an eye on what's going on; ask for a report as to what's going on; receive submissions

JC: I agree with Cclr Day, this prob has been around forever

to come up with a knee-jerk reaction tonight when weeks of careful study by Mr Nicholls wd give us the answer

owe it to ourselves and nbrs

Mayor: list a few things that affect all of us; nbrhd character imp to all of us

need to hire a new Dir/Planning, that's been established

walls, natural grade, decks,. etc

even have had devprs and surveyors say shd not do this...

natural character; cmnties never spend time talking about trees, rocks, and this cmnty does ........

make a bylaw; some easy hot topics; phasing makes sense; certainly the WG wd benefit from that as well; expertise in devt cmnty want to work on this as well; I think, Cclr VV, what Cclr Day is saying, there are experts in the cmnty -- it's us as cclrs, lay ppl, who aren't.

when can you have report back to us?

SJN: can we drop Rodgers West, Amb Strategy, and others?  I'm going to be away for part of Oct

you want staff to report back on the key issues dealt with in the Zoning and Devt Bylaws; time table and proceeding

method for establishing priorities; ask for that at least by Nov; doesn't mean we're not doing work, just puts it together

try to include in that report; hows and as many of the whats

Mayor: think much of our ideals already embodied

be able to provide anybody with when they come to the dept ... guidelines, spirit ... not that that is ironclad

Mayor: that will come back; been fruitful, tyvm: Hope you can stay for next portion of the mtg

Cclr Clark, pls thank the delegation.  [DONE]

8:11  REPORTS

3. Council Meeting Procedures and Meeting Schedule -- Information to be provided.

SSch: July 2006; subsequent discussions, streamlining of Ccl processes, changes

draft before you incorporates revisions; revisions to Sept 2007; sections consolidated

Robts Rules of Order (RRO) added as reference for procedural motions

new section regarding Cmte of the Whole and Schedule A was added, fewer rules wrt motions;

revisions to 2007 version ref to RRO deleted except for voting proceedings

Notice of Motion section has been deleted

clarification wrt amendment of motions

Mayor: I feel like you and I and Dave Stuart have been doing on this ev Tues for a year

Sop: a couple of queries on p11 Agenda -- make available at least two days prior to mtg, that wd be Fri?

Sop; what if the agenda spells out some pertinent results we have to deal with that takes a longer time than two days to look at, deliberate?

CAO: Ccl always has the right to defer the item; study it for another week; always that option

Sop: we do get some stuff laid on us; sometimes timetables

if an important item, what do we do, just say staff, we're not going to deal with that

CAO: Ccl has often deferred to the following week; especially if rec'd information late

Sop: second is the workshop, has some merit; not a constituted mtg, nothing passed and voted on

why all the rules, just discussion, light, notes; but still has to follow all these rules, so why?

don't vote on anything: is it just a get together with no notes, no rules, whatever?

SSch: suggestion to implement a diff format, also wanted to assure that notice wd still be given to mbrs of the public in accordance with the current process for agenda; solicitor has reiterated that in that type of format no motions may be made; more informal format than Cmte of the Whole

Sop: in effect pretty well taking and adopting the policy of the CEC in relationship WGs

Mayor: conducting Cmte of the Whole, outdated;  this supposed to be a modern Cmte of the Whole and we're calling it a Ccl Workshop and we're holding it in public.

JC: was expecting to see some restriction on the number of times a mbr can speak and length of time

Mayor: twice, unless Chair

JF: page 4.46

JC: that doesn't restrict time; that's order

Mayor: what is our policy? time?

SSch: policy, generally has been five minutes, and can be extended by leave of Ccl

JC: shd that not be here?

SSch: info this evening can be revised

stat notice in newspaper; reporting all the suggestions

MS: certainly delighted to hear Cclr V for a unanimous vote; no reason why these mtgs shd go past 10 o'clock

go on beyond; hold cclr mbrs who work; staff who have to drive [long distances]; due back at work next day

have 10 o'clock cast in stone and not even ask for an extension; get mtgs over faster

Mayor: sounds like unanimous vote we shd

CAO: two mbrs spoke

JF: with best of intentions...  take long

Sop: I do a lot of research on items

Gibbses -- these folks have been working three to four months on these issues

these are professionals

do all those things, come to Ccl only avenue of democracy

we may take some time; some may talk more than others; expect cclrs talk it out

am inquisitive and want to see things to come about

if an indiv wants to go home before 10 they can get up and leave

most don't sit... can't for vote... when we start... in course of night's work, we shd work

Mayor: some discipline; ... half

take time, listening to public; try to be flexible; leave at unanimous; may be a topic for debate; sounds that's where most mbrs of Ccl are at moment

SSch: re Ccl workshops, add anything?

CAO: intent to replace Cmte of the Whole; going to be implementing all the requirements of the Charter

Mayor: v boiled down

8:29

Report dated August 27, 2007 from the Manager of Social Services ... received for information.

MS: report will be presented Nov 5; our WG trying to address the issue

8:30

Geri Boyle: key points; formal policy; gave background, WG, townhall mtg; recommendations were presented to Ccl

key issues: diversification of uses; pedestrians; arts culture -- opp to add to assets

sustainability -- providing opps to live and work in cmnty; strategy tries to integrate that

specifically we want to present -- turn over to Colette re ht

Colette Parsons: height policies [slide]

one- and two-storey bldgs (light) next to dark blue (newer bldgs); not much change in blue areas

smaller-scale bldg sites, recommending remain in three-storey range

orange colour: quite a lot of frontage

wd anticipate; three sites, some potential for some add'l ht; v large

Next: cross sections [slide] developed from waterfront to residential behind (1400 block up to Duchess)

bldgs stepping away from street; at third and fourth storey we want to step back; providing some open space for upper storey residentials

cross section in 1500 block, old Odeon site [slide], showing relationship three with four on other side

1800 block [slide], far right sgl resid behind where abuts want to make sure respectful transition and whatever happens across the lane

step bldgs back to get light down to street

massing; looking at character and bldg articulation; quality bldgs, well-articulated

Hollyburn Med Bldg, new IGA, well crafted; Dund Mews

variations in scale and throughout Amb area

SJN: OCP and design massaged b/c devt permit reqmts; idea of prezoning

in Amb today a mishmash of diff designations; site-specific zonings, land use, service stn zonings, not proposing to change

either C2 and SI1 an out of date zoning (Clyde Ave)

talk about ambiguity; 30 years ago, somewhat out of date

ppl living in the cmnty and ppl wanting to build shd know

what they want to have in Amb

outlying areas, purple, ppl cd build mixed commercial residential or residential

purple purpose if flexibility

concentrated area wd be orange area, our today's C2, amended -- mixed comm-resid, both on Marine Drive and ......

core area in orange outside flexible; stars are larger and unique props

prezone not for anything over but leave possibility of applications to take adv of something that better suits area

cd hold townhall mtg Oct 3, so ask ccl guidance, SAC not av

SJN: townhall close, short, so providing info from staff and material from WG

wdn't be able to provide in advance of mtg but provided direction; material av to public

8:51  JF: wrt what CAO said; the differences are few but significant diffs

I wd prefer to have both av for discussion

think that the rationale behind WG needs to be clearly understood

important for ppl in cmnty to hear and for Ccl to hear; don't think terribly far apart

JF: WG recs did come from biz, trying to rent out second storey offices; reasons for recs

maybe find some middle ground

Edgemont Village in NV is an example of how this can be accomplished; here a rather dormant biz dist was transformed into a vibrant and successful one with charm and character without dominating the surrounding nbrhd and the envmt

zoning regulations that accomplished this allowed one to three storeys, and max FAR there is 1.5; and DNV involved its nbrs in the Edgemont village concept

John Seddon: representing owners of Bellevue Landing

have given our position and suggestions verbally and in writing

we took readings of the sound volumes during Harmony Aerts, some instance exceeded those set down by bylaw

concerned about littering

first thing in morning, some days during HAF, M staff v gd and cleaned up fairly shortly after nevertheless if on 14th where civic sq to be located, wd not look fwd to

photos of portapotties, removed fairly quickly but don't want outside your front door

don't want

last Sat, when antique or collector cars; was an Elvis singer on north side of Ferry Bldg but our recorder of sound not around; sound far exceeded volume of train or jet engine

idea of having a concert great but blowing someone's eardrums escapes

concentrate on what beautifies Amb, put power lines underground

shd wish to hear from any residents of Bellevue Landing happy to hear

VV: am concerned seems to be continuing and heading to a town hall mtg

ADRA objected as view of ppl around there; wonder if this is ready; residents don't want it

like, ref toward end, greater cleanliness, powerwash the sidewalks

Mayor: purpose to shape what that looks like, devise a process how nbrs ...

can't ascribe motives....

update regulations to support bldg restoration, renewal, and sustainability

encourage reno of smaller sites, entrances, unanimous support for an art gallery

then some things that aren't acceptable

cmnty as a whole has put a lot of effort

sophisticated process, Festival Street concern about that

in a workshop, no decisions, now about process; plan crafted by everyone

JF: know I've spoken before about WG, spoken from point of knowledge to recs from staff

didn't ever hear one word of criticism up to election

a mbr who wants to have one, a personal desire; never a part of the Amb Revit Plan and isn't

Cmnty input, Amb WG heard long presentation from both groups -- ADRA and Mr Seddon's group (Amb Landing), spent better part of hour and a half, welcome to make comments at WG mtgs

if desire of Ccl to meet again with those groups, happy to do it

RD: followed this closely, a resident of Hollyburn wch is between

good study, moderate soln; devt and status quo

Amb has its charm; all know probs, bizes not succeeding

know need to renov; question is extent

change, once taken place can't go back; have to take that into consideration

so glitzy don't recognize ourselves; plan does protect the waterfront, no bldg on waterfront

seeks to combine biz area with waterfront; some modernization

something between devpr's paradise and status quo

looking forward to Town Hall mtg and some input

JC: I arrived about five to seven minutes before Elvis finished; cdn't hear ppl talking in my store

haven't heard any contact with those little bldg owners tearing down and building something else

where's buy in from prop owners themselves? are they willing?

they have no intention of even opening that mail

[prop] retirement pkg for them and will just sit on it

SJN: did have a mtg with the prop owners at SAC

if you do these things, wd like to renov; some hv probs with parking

group, some of larger props

low densities being proposed, think too low

Ccl can afford to be flexible; what are you proposing, prepared to look at it

15 or 16 projects taken place in last 20 years

with Ccl's sidewalks, traffic; renovating, improvements; some are prepared to devp

maybe some more solid tenants

nature of tenants has changed; short term tenancies

if we can turn direction, cmnty believes productive and successful, won't change over night

JC: have been approached by bldg owners; razed and replaced

SJN: slow; densities, maybe sit a little longer

Sop: Bean, gas statn, hv coffee, take my shoes in; many many services in that area, that is what wanted; used by 5 - 7K ppl daily basis

has to be for the citizens; citizen may take a walkabout

wrt presentation re bldg form and ht

modern day needs more ht than ... you're looking at 60ft of bldg

where is the interpretation of the character store, amenity, character biz person b/c of able to afford market rent

cite what we have in consideration here

some things shd be considered in overall plan, Amb Park Plan, Waterfront Plan, traffic-calming

Amenities policy coming up, bonus density; traffic patterns, parking probs

14th and Marine what we'd have to deal with soundproofing

13th and Marine reconfig

median, calming all the way up?

a lot of the work by staff, a lot of good hard work; how draw on it, leave it in isolation?

what makes us continually want envmt, change not as great as open space a nice walkabout

have to keep devt; thought a long time, a lot of work on the Amb corridor

CAO: that's the chicken and the egg -- master plan or components; staff struggled with

if that were the case, we'd upset the entire capitalist system

why wd you want to run a widget factory in Hamilton and take all the risk when you can move to WV, go into biz, and have Ccl guarantee that your project is going to be viable.  I don't think that makes any sense.

the other thing that concerns me about the Amb plan is in view of what happened to us on EvDr, I think it's v risky to start stating ahead, before we even see what the project is going to look like, what the public benefit is, why talking about how high bldg can be and FAR?

the idea of designating residential and commercial in areas of Amb makes a lot of sense

9:27 JF: Amb Town Ctr strategy did incorp the Park, etc

didn't compromise the Park plan or Arts/Culture, complemented; symbiotic relationship

Ccl to some degree has an oblig wrt biz viability; after all, tax base

nowhere to shop, oblig to encourage viable; provide services we need

I don't want to walk past blank windows; no life on the street; often can't find shoe repair

envmtal sustainability, renovating small sites

lawnmower repair shop; need places to go

if remodelled and rents regressive, then adding on to lane and having shops there like mews, like Bean Around the World, go out and sit on deck on the lane

little pizza parlour, can take place

cmnty we want; comm and resid, need provide ppl who will use don't have to get into cars

class A ofc space

number of ppl coming by bus to WV working by day, getting on bus going back home

rather than ppl having to go into Vancouver

many merchants in area struggling, having a hard time

they're interested and excited about opps that exist for them

Mayor: next steps; think Oct 3 too close a time frame

wkshop Oct 15, think about notifying whole cmnty

interested having cmnty go through whole -- lanes, parking, really common sense things

public process ...  anticipated wd become v hi profile and wd be partnering

our cmnty ofc there; recommendation from staff how public can become informed

most of the residents that have spoken live in bldgs built in last 20 years, in third storey not permitted, attractive enough for ppl wanting to come out to protect

lot of activity, outdoor seating, didn't exist before

Amb area had gone through constant change

key is wch change; from staff's perspective, av to set parameters; able to respond when ppl ask

as well, we tell ppl what they're not allowed to do in Amb; equally imp to do that

you're not being pressed to do this b/c something's going to happen a month from now; by end of year

RD: don't think what ADRA is suggesting is wrong; need to sit down and listen and incorporate suggestions; seem what we shd do is what ppl like and accept

Hollyburn Med Ctr, and X; know four but set back but ppl like

contribute a lot; cd be model; cd have three storeys of market place; add a lot to Amb; we can be flexible

maybe not Oct 3, sit down ad listen for a while; don't think what ADRA is saying is that far off

Mayor: change second part to staff report back wrt Amb T Strategy?

CAO: and possible mtg Oct 15

9:39 CARRIED

VV: thank HWG for classic car display; although I arrived after Elvis impersonator finished; congratulate everyone involved

Sop:  week ago glorious day for Coho Fest; one of busiest in years; Cypress Bowl school...helping; all in all for benefit of salmon

JC: on your behalf last Friday opening of Legacies Now in Park Royal North; shd drop by, well done booth, lots of info

9:40  [Receipt]

Mayor: I've got two mbrs of public wishing to speak and some items we must get to on our regular ccl agenda; they're timing issues, unless prepared to wait until end of that, but right now I'll ask for Misha Taylor

Misha Taylor: Bayridge; comment about WV Cmnty Discussion Forum I read about in the NS News

discussion on line brilliant; bring cmnty together to discuss; broad cross section; issues imp to all

however needs to be heavily advertised and more importantly, easy to access [Forum]

as a busy parent I might have 15 minutes on a computer, but if it takes ten steps to find the forum, I might not have any time to read the posts; this is huge, IMO

WV cd get more ppl interested in civic issues; this level of govt affects right in their and their nbrs' backyard

learned ev family will get a flyer about this forum -- inundated, sometimes paper gets lost in shuffle lost and forgotten

voice not heard; same with this flyer, put on WV homepage as well, front and centre as well as how to use

informed and involved decision-making process from comfort of own home; Mayor and Ccl to access opinions of all residents, not just with those with extra time involved

applaud [idea of having forums on website], and open discussion about what affects all of us in the District.

JC: had this conversation with staff this morning, and that flyer you referred to is going into mail on Monday, new link appears in the flyer; watch for that simplified

Mayor: and website is being worked on b/c it is awkward.

I'm going to ask Carolanne Reynolds if you cd wait until the regular Ccl mtg b/c there's really items I have to get to; unless you can be v v brief, and -- one minute

CR: I have four questions and you can decide how you want to--

Mayor: -- real timing issues on the regular ccl agenda, I'd be happy to come to you afterwards if we cd deal with them

CR: so I'll have three minutes afterward?

Mayor: yes; time will be less of an issue then.  Thank you.  Motion to adjourn.

8.  ADJOURNMENT 9:47

1.  Council resolved into the September 17, 2007 Special Regular Meeting of Council.

2.  APPROVAL OF AGENDA

VV: wish to add what was represented by the architects earlier in the evening

add a motion wrt the interpretation of the FAR

Mayor: item no 9, recommendation from Dir of Planning

RD: not sure -- item for Hugo Ray for Sept 24 premature.  Cd we postpone that until Oct?

Mayor: then item no 10; skip item 4, and move to Item no 5, reading first time and setting date.

3.  ADOPTION OF MINUTES -- No items scheduled.

RECOMMENDATIONS FROM September 17, 2007 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE MEETING

4. RECOMMENDED: ... ratified.

REPORTS

RECOMMENDED:  THAT ... now introduced and read a first time in short form.

RECOMMENDED:  THAT ... be considered at a concurrent Public Hearing / Public Meeting to be held on Monday, October 15, 2007 at 7:00 p.m. in the Municipal Hall Council Chamber.

VV: don't have info on the effect of having another convenience store on number we already have, according to a mbr of the public; don't know why losing a repair station wd be of help to the cmnty; don't think we have proper rationale

JC: my motion is for setting a date

Mayor: nevertheless, Cclr V, that's your prerogative

Sop: now gas stn being changed over; need another convenience store? extremely valuable

service they provide, tire changing, oil changing, motor works and other things

have one at 22nd; kind of services like to have in cmnty

wd like to know if altering of pumps; timely to have a close look at envtal status, contaminants under road; time now as at 15th and Marine to go through that process

when report?

Mayor: maybe best hold that hearing and then go from there; Ccl can direct

Sop: why to take to third reading

Mayor: we're not, introducing this and setting Public Hearing on Oct 15

Mayor: skip 6, move to 7

RECOMMENDED:  THAT the Report dated September 4, 2007 from the Manager of Social Services ... be received for information.

        Report to be provided on table.

MS: interim policy

Sept 13th; as indicated on map; Pound Rd and rd parallel to rlwy tracks; staff report back

Sop: how do you get there?

Mayor: TWO WANTING TO SPEAK

Rebecca Black: been out

upset about exclusion; off leash area is in native land; have you a contingency plan? where going to walk dogs?

Mayor: good question

RBlack: strikes fear

Mayor: will hv to be addressed, don't know when

point of tonight fair and make sense, good thing to refer to staff

RBlack: b/c this bylaw strictly enforced this summer; clout

never been approached by a bylaw ofcr and guess I was breaking walking across to beach; watch many ppl do it and can look out my window and see them

dogs like family mbrs

when something historically has never been enforced, if not broke why fix it

wondering why need change at this time

dogs can walk on sidewalk Vancouver City and Stanley Park on leash, not huge

Cathy [didn't catch name]: dog park stuff

will be mtg with you Pam on Thurs; confusion in letter received

clearly indicates crown land only part we are allowed to run our dogs on no access to tickets there but holding map; confused, as well as aggression and perhaps Chief of Police needs to sit with us b/c ppl hav been threatened

given a ticket under traffic, $150, I'm on disability, limited income; ppl in wheelchairs down back exit

not providing a safe entrance for ppl to the park

mixing cars, cyclists, dogs, baby carriages, etc; segregating us from the rest of society; need to for those with disabilities need to provide a safe spot; elderly woman aggressively ticketed on a scooter,...

9:58  JC: motion to extend

Mayor: motion carries, feel have to loop back

Sheena Vennesland: will work if owners take trouble

sad prob; partly demographics -- smaller yards, apts; everywhere; Seattle $150 and $500 for on the beach infractions and saw two on beach this morning.

Prague trying to get public attention; those who want park space without dogs b/c of groundnesting birds

the dog to a degree has been used as a means to an end, relieve loneliness, all v good things

how many ppl have you seen with dogs on a leash? fouling blvd outside someone else's home

I've had dogs all my life; trained to stay and heel, far more sociable, toilet procedures

don't have time so hostility fines and restrictions; passing a street test

Linda Wong: questions re bylaws

for older ppl with small dogs who live in Amb and Dund; some don't own vehicles any longer

only John Lawson, Dund, ... or walk up and down

can't get to washroom facilities in Amb Pk, Dund; can't leash them to go and ise those facilities

older ppl have right to enjoy sit on bench look at water with little pookie on lap

discrimination; sometimes pet the only thing left in their life

you can go anywhere, Grouse Grind -- what are you providing for your taxpayers?

Mayor: to review

LW: a lot of ppl cannot get there; use some common sense and I don't think we're doing that right now

Mayor: to provide clarification about the VSun story

CAO: story of a person on a wheelchair two tix -- it was warning ticket with no fine

park in question HBay, staff recog

that bylaw on agenda tonight for adoption

Mayor: voted on No 7?

SSch: no but mover and seconder

[CARRIED]

10:04  BYLAW FOR ADOPTION

Mayor: H Bay

Ann Pepper: a cpl of facts overlooked

your staff brought to attention; five reasons shd not be adopted

daycare used Tantalus b/c no green space, and no shade; daycare running for a long time

parents wd not be happy dogs running dogs they don't know

2nd, Gleneagles is promoting a walk to school policy to reduce car congestion and health envmt reasons

Tantalus is on the route for many of these chn; timing for preschool ends, returning, etc; potential for conflict again

3rd, amt of green space in area; did bring map; grass areas that are flat but for lower Gleneagles is quite a hike so Tantalus only park flat and can be used as a playing field, closest for HBay

4th, dog owners can go to Seaview Walk; duplication

100% of owners do not pick up 100% of dog poo

chn playing ball, health issue; more dog owners so potential increasing

Tantalus is a small park, not suitable for walking dog on leash, walking in circle

criteria, what makes a good one?

Seattle has come up with no existing ppl-use b/c becomes displaced

when I talked to a staff mbr, staff believed not used v much for chn but certainly a lot; used by preschoolers

Seattle also endorses, mixed uses not a good idea

5th looking at HBay to and from the ferry, srs, tourists, doubt about it working unless properly fenced in; afraid decision made a little too quickly on this; seems to be an on the fly decision

I found out from an offhand comment by staff last week

so think cmnty hasn't been consulted properly -- HBay, ppl don't want to lose Tantalus

10:10  why do we always have to keep developing, some things work just fine as it is; diff to make change

can't we wait to see how dog bylaws work out; not change in HBay

really my recommendation, be deferred for a year HBay and not adopted for Tantalus

CAO: not on the fly; over a number of years

HBay is being used and getting opposition to ticketing occurring

wrt Tantalus, not suggesting if you walk dog through park won't get ticket; certainly we can monitor 10:13 RD: Animal Amendment Bylaw for adoption; add'l correspondence

JC last speaker mentioned health issues, not obvious like stepping in the stuff

anyone with lowered immune system virus or whatever particularly susceptible to dog urine and can't see it; life-theateneing, keep it in mind

MS: have to admit agree with comments of last speaker; used to live in Gleneagles and walked with kids in Tantalus and dogs Seaview

nice park for kids; question if real need to make it a dogs on leash park

enjoyed by small chn who don't have a lot of alternatives in that area

Sop slightly of same mind; voting on 8 -- amendment bylaw?

Mayor: given three readings last week

Sop: ferry system and lineups; have to be basically practical

concrete patio, two hours ferry wait then dog in car; down in that little corner reasonable

Tantalus even though

not at this time; wd like to go out and see; go to Ron's Walk?

Mayor: ask Clerk how to divide? or if Ccl wishes to defer

Ssch: wd hv to come back or cd defer

DEFERRAL MOVED

Mayor: motion made for nonenforcement; first defer motion to

SSch: Sept 14 and Oct 1 reg mtg

Mayor: defer to Sept 24

CARRIED  with followup motion non enforcement

10:18 CAO: portion of HBay

Mr Nicholls do you have a motion for us?

PASSED

Sop:  when back?

Mayor Nov 15th

10:19 CONSENT AGENDA ITEMS

9. Consent Agenda Items =96 Reports and Correspondence List

[Hugo Ray added to agenda]

RD: by that time minister decided; if he turns it down, expansion won't work; put it off for four weeks

Sop: wd like to think a good way to go but sitting all summer long without enough communication with residents

out of hand; innuendo; no formal to residents about what's coming about

orig buildout now downsized

nobody's fault, it just happened; now without any consideration of area residents

now Mdm Mayor, and Kevin Pike mtg; why not a mtg, look for a win-win

somewhere down road or look for alternatives; just wasting time, cd hv bn dealing with this

VV: agree, think decision overdue; motion presupposes our decision wd be based on grant; think we shd go ahead next week

JC: contacted earlier today, number of the stakeholders not able to attend next week, asked for two weeks; disagree with Cclr Sop/VV; don't think we have sufficient information

grant application in limbo is a large amt of money and cd affect timetable; give us a little bit of time

CAO: Ccl has bn briefed; if not sufficient info to nbrhd out there, simply arrange mtg in next two weeks; not inclined to meet with us yet; delighted to go; Ccl give us direction

Brent Dozzi: staff have prepared a functional plan with presentation to Ministry; happening next week; glacial speed ministry staff av

JF: quite a while, mtg with nbrs earlier rather than [later]; to provide correct information, best way to go; defer mtg until we have relevant information; complete, kindness to nbrs; agreement with deferral

10:26 [some opposed but motion carries]

Mayor: refer remaining to next mtg of Ccl

SSch: ratification?

Mayor: thx

[VV moved; CARRIED]

REPORTS FOR CONSENT AGENDA

10. Development Applications Status List: received for information

This and rest deferred to next mtg, but Mayor had asked me to wait (even though I was on list with Misha Taylor at end of Cmte of the Whole, before the reg ccl mtg started) so said:

Mayor: Public Question Period.  Carolanne Reynolds.  Thank you for waiting

Carolanne Reynolds: I have some questions that can be answered later.

= WRT, properties in Ambleside and information you're providing, I have asked for it several times and perhaps you cd hv it for next time, the percentage of places that are .4FAR b/c with someone suggesting 1.75 to 2.75, it's important to know what proportion we have that's small now and how much of a difference that wd make, so ppl can have some idea of how much difference.

I really was quite intrigued with Cclr Smith's suggestion that we just keep going one at a time.  I know that's what we've been doing for many years and it has worked somewhat, and it gives us flexibility.  I know it's also desirable -- as the MMgr, the CAO, said, it's chicken and egg, so we do want an overall plan too, but rather than stop everything for this I think if continuing with one at a time with some sort of an idea wd be a good way to go.  The suggestion that a lot of these properties are going to stay small b/c on small lots, that's risible b/c of course devprs, you know are going to go in and put lots together so they will qualify [for a bigger higher building].

= The third thing is that the ccl workshops on the cmte procedures -- I think that's a great idea.  I was v excited to read about it, and to hear it's going to adhere to the Cmnty Charter.  I think that's great new move and I think that it's great that you're going to do that.

= As for the recommendations made by the Dundarave Neighbourhood area group, the first one is to give direction to staff to follow the OCP as it is written and intended.  There's no doubt they've been following it as they perceive it to be written, etc.  I'm not questioning that at all.  And they were right to bring that up that they were complying, doing that.  But the part that cd be acted on right now, before and whether you're going to do it in parts or phases that's a good idea too, but what, the part that cd be helpful right now is as it said: to give direction to staff that they way they interpret, the places where they have choices, flexibility and leeway, that the way they interpret it be the way it was intended, and that is to reduce mass and height, b/c right now some of the decisions they are making increase them, wch are against, or are not in keeping with the intent as some ppl said.

Thank you v much.

Mayor: Mr Stuart, have you a comment on the survey?

CAO: in the process of drafting the kinds of issues we want to see in the survey; haven't got to the point of drafting the questions.  The RFP for the survey company closed last Friday; so we'll be sitting down and meeting with them, and we will be providing the draft questions to cmnty and Ccl for comment.

CR: tyvm -- just that it's close to the end of September!

ADJOURNMENT

CALL TO ORDER

1.  APPROVAL OF AGENDA

2. ADOPTION OF MINUTES (for Sept 10)

3. L. Pierce, Transportation Planning Advisory Committee (TPAC), District of North Vancouver regarding Ride Club (Carpooling Pilot Project)

Additional Information: Memo dated September 20, 2007 from the Community Planner attaching a landscape plan for 1881 22nd Street.

At the September 10, 2007 meeting, Council received the report dated July 30, 2007 from the Community Planner titled "Development Variance Permit Application 07-021 (1881 22nd Street)", a copy of which is attached for reference.

RECOMMENDED: submissions received.

If Council wishes a further staff report, then:  RECOMMENDED: that staff report back

OR

At the September 10, 2007 meeting, Council received the report dated August 20, 2007 from the Community Planner titled "Development Variance Permit Application No. 07-024 (6655 Madrona Place)", a copy of which is attached for reference.

RECOMMENDED: submissions received.

If Council wishes a further staff report, then:  RECOMMENDED: that staff report back

OR

RECOMMENDED: THAT

1. The GVRD Board be advised that West Vancouver Council supports the overall directions of the Draft Regional Affordable Housing Strategy (July 2007), on the understanding that support for specific proposals related to targets, regional development cost charges and a regional affordable housing trust fund would be subject to municipal consideration of the forthcoming technical analysis; and

2. The issues around affordable housing and potential strategies for addressing them be discussed as part of the Community Dialogue on Neighbourhood Character and Housing.

8. Branding the District of West Vancouver as a Desirable Employer (for receipt)

This item was deferred from the September 17, 2007 Special Regular Council Meeting.

This Bylaw received third reading at the September 10, 2007 Council Meeting.

RECOMMENDED:

THAT the report dated September 18, 2007 from the Manager of Bylaw & Licencing [sic] Services regarding Animal Control Bylaw No. 4208, 2000 Amendment Bylaw No. 4520, 2007 recommending that Bylaw No. 4208 be amended to convert the area of Horseshoe Bay Park east of the paved parking lot on 6317 Bay Street to a "dogs on leash" park area be received.

RECOMMENDED:

THAT the third reading ... be rescinded.

RECOMMENDED:

THAT Animal Control Bylaw No. 4208, 2000 Amendment Bylaw No. 4520, 2007 be amended as described in the report dated September 18, 2007 from the Manager of Bylaw & Licencing [sic] Services.

RECOMMENDED:

THAT Animal Control Bylaw No. 4208, 2000 Amendment Bylaw No. 4520, 2007, as amended, be read a third time.

11. Local Area Service Lane Paving Construction 1300 Block Jefferson and Inglewood Avenue and 1160 =96 14th Street Bylaw No. 4526, 2007 (for three readings)

12. Change to October 15, 2007 Council Meeting Schedule

RECOMMENDED: THAT the Committee of the Whole Council Meeting scheduled for Monday, October 15, 2007 at 7:00 pm in the Municipal Hall Council Chamber be changed to a Regular Council Meeting to be held on the same day, time, and location.

13. Consent Agenda Items =96 Reports and Correspondence List

The following Consent Agenda items may be considered separately or in one recommendation.

RECOMMENDED: THAT the Consent Agenda items as follows be approved:

=B7 Item 14 =96 Development Applications Status List; and

=B7 Item 15 =96 Correspondence Lists.

REPORTS FOR CONSENT AGENDA

14. Development Applications Status List (received for information)

>  World Punctuation Day is Sept 24:  http://www.bdb.co.za/shackle/articles/world_punctuation_day.htm

>  LICENCE/LICENSE (yet again)

In the last issue (WVM27), b/c email was ignored or not read, care was taken to explain the difference between licence (noun) and license (verb) b/c that agenda (Sept 17th) contained a non-existent word on the agenda, ie one not used in the UK or even the ever-permissive US.  Incredible that it's not only not correct on the agenda Sept 24th (item 10, twice, see the [sic]), but also it doesn't match the position title on the DWV website, wch has Ms LH as Manager, Bylaw & Licence Services wch is correct.

May I point out this was correct after pointed out last year but for some reason this year apparently a mbr of staff has decided to change to an incorrect spelling, and no one dare point out or challenge.

What is this indicative of?

Extraordinary.  You all know I'm fascinated with language but this word -- and it's an English word -- is exceptional.  While looking up a word in my trusty Chambers dictionary I came across the densest, most evocative definition I think I've ever seen:

kok-saghyz, noun.

a species of dandelion (Taraxacum kok-saghyz) from the Tien Shan, grown in Russia, etc., for rubber-making.

Doesn't that conjure up lots of images!

I happen to know that Shan means mountain in Chinese.  So here we have a weed, dandelion, the bane of our lawn, used for rubber!!!  And then, are the Russians sneaking over the mountains and bringing back this weed (wch surely needs no encouragement to spread), and then setting up rubber plantations?  But wait.  Rubber plantations are in Malaysia.  And that's latex or whatever from trees.

So I had to google for that:

n.  A central Asian dandelion (Taraxacum koksaghyz) having fleshy roots that yield a form of rubber.

Noun 1.  kok-saghyz - perennial dandelion native to Kazakhstan cultivated for its fleshy roots that have high rubber content

-----As an aside, my dictionary has ghyz (you'll see below many have gyz) perhaps H added to make clear pronounced as a hard G.  Above, it appears it might have been without initially........

Well, I cdn't stop there, so here we go--

SAGYZ gets:

......So now we have China, Russia, Kyrgyzstan, and Kazakhstan

what a fascinating background to the dandelion.  And to think all we do is make salad from the leaves.  Oh yes, there's such a thing as dandelion wine.

There it is brightening our lives all over the place with those sunshine yellow flowers, willing to feed us and slake our thirst and we cast it aside, refer to it pejoratively, and consider it a weed.  Yet it has so much to offer.

One of our unsung-hero plants....

G adds: C's non-linear free-associative right hemisphere runs amok again!

=== POLITI-KU === watching= BBC and CNN Sept 3

Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking; where it is absent, discussion is apt to become worse than useless.

                -- Leo Nikolaevich Tolstoy, Russian Writer (1828 - 1910)

No drug, not even alcohol, causes the fundamental ills of society. If we're looking for the source of our troubles, we shouldn't test people for drugs, we should test them for stupidity, ignorance, greed and love of power.

                -- P.J. O'Rourke, writer (1947 - )

Oscar Wilde, writer (1854 - 1900): A thing is not necessarily true because a man dies for it.