WVM2007-30
Ccl NOTES Oct 1
Calendar to Oct 18th
by
Carolanne Reynolds, Editor
www.WestVan.org
HAPPY THANKSGIVING!
= Next ccl mtg October 15th!
= Vive le Canada (Thanksgiving); ANIMALWATCH; UPDATES
(Police Bd/Dept); WEBWATCH (Block Watch); INFObits (Court rules
on Open Mtgs); THEATREWATCH; Calendar to Oct
18th
= Ccl Mtg Oct 1 NOTES -- EXECUTIVE SUMMARY:
- DVPs 480 Eastcot and 5771 Cranley;
- Prov Electoral Area Boundary Readjustments (two,
four, or eight more MLAs or none?);
- Cmnty Engagement Policy (discussion re difference,
apptmts, cost, and WG balance; openness and inclusion of public,
-- let's hope the word gets out!);
- Tax Exemption Review; to fee or not to fee for fields?
(Budget 2007 revisited); Animal Control (dogs);
- Correspondence: discussion re parking at the Srs'
Ctr; GST M rebate?; if staff knew in March the log cabin
of Hugo Ray (former reeve) was endangered, why no process to alert Ccl
or the cmnty??? especially when asked for one b/c Ev Dr cottage
lost and so it was demolished a couple of weeks ago to my
horror...
= Limerick for Bard; Bureaucrats; The View from Down Under;
Quotations
*** VIVE LE CANADA
-- History of Thanksgiving
in Canada
The history of
Thanksgiving in Canada goes back to an English explorer, Martin
Frobisher, who had been futilely attempting to find a northern passage
to the Orient. He did, however, establish a settlement in Canada. In
the year 1578, Frobisher held a formal ceremony in what is now the
province of Newfoundland and Labrador, to give thanks for surviving
the long journey. This event is widely considered to be the first
Canadian Thanksgiving, and the first official Thanksgiving to occur in
North America. More settlers arrived and continued the ceremonial
tradition initiated by Frobisher, who was eventually knighted and had
an inlet of the Atlantic Ocean in northern Canada named after him -
Frobisher Bay.
It should be noted that the 1578
ceremony was not the first Thanksgiving as defined by Native American
tradition. Long before the time of Martin Frobisher, it was
traditional in many Native American cultures to offer an official
giving of thanks during autumnal gatherings. In Haudenasonee culture,
Thanksgiving is a prayer recited to honor "the three sisters"
(i.e., beans, corn and squash) during the fall harvest.
=== ANIMALWATCH
> The London Zoo is celebrating its 180th anniversary; just
released some photos on its history for fundraising:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_pictures/7021506.stm
> DWV has started a forum for those with views on dogs and set
up an information link:
Find out more at
westvancouver.ca/dogs
=== UPDATES
>>> Congratulations to aboriginal lawyer and
judge, Stephen Point, our new Lieutenant-Governor
>>> Sorry to learn of the passing of Charles
Campbell, but 93 is a good long time. Remember hearing his
impassioned pleas about Canadian immigration (for an improved, fairer,
more positive policy). That mantle has been passed to Martin
Collacott.
>>> POLICE BOARD WATCHER'S (COMPLETE) LETTER TO
NSNEWS (printed Sept 30) re speeding:
It is unfortunate that Mr. Lautens's
views Cypress Park school zone speeding tickets as undeserved. I was
nailed (near WVSS) -- I was in the wrong and the penalty has had the
desired effect. I commended the officer at the time for his work to
make our streets safer.
More to the point, however, I write to
correct Mr. Lautens's incorrect inference that the WV Police use
traffic fines as a revenue source and, more nefariously, that that
influences the Department's choices in deploying its resources.
Traffic fines are remitted to the Province, aggregated, and then
returned to municipalities in proportion to their size, not the fines
collected.
West Vancouver's share of the traffic
fine pie in 2006 was about 1.5%. In other words, West Van will receive
less than $3 from my speeding ticket. Therefore to suggest that the
policing in West Vancouver is motivated in any fashion by traffic fine
revenue is simply neither believable nor true.
Indeed, former WV Police Board member
Russ Fraser was adamant that no aspect of policing should be managed
as a profit centre and, as a regular (and frequently lone) observer at
WV Police
Board meetings, I have heard nothing to suggest the current board
differs in this view.
If Mr. Lautens feels that speeding
patrols ought to focus on other areas of the District, he is to be
encouraged to contact the Police with his suggestions. I know they are
very receptive to such information and will deploy the speed watch
volunteers and/or officers based, in part, on this valuable
information from residents.
>>> WVPD: from the Sept 16th Chief
Constable's report on the 2008 - 2010 strategic plan:
MISSION STATEMENT
The WVPD will provide policing that fosters a safe, accessible,
and comfortable cmnty for those who live, work, and visit. This
pledge will be guided by the following principles:
- making crime statistics and associated prevention progress
available for all mbrs of the cmnty to access
- ensuring that citizens, stakeholders, and partnerships are
considered and incorporated into the policing process
- establishing firm parameters around acceptable service levels so
that performance can be property gauged
The four strategic priorities that will govern the annual work
plans are:
- reduce crime and fear of crime
- engage stakeholders
- develop resources
- manage accountability
=== WEBWATCH --=
New Block Watch Website
The Block Watch Society has a new website, also where you can
view their newsletter online. The site also features the Top Ten
Crime Prevention Tips. The site also features more information
on:
Home security, Automobile safety, Identity theft; Graffiti
and vandalism. There are also contacts for the province of BC
and each city that is on the membership list. For more
information, go to
www.blockwatch.com and
Source:
http://www.blockwatch.com/index.aspx
=== INFObits
>>> Sputnik went up Oct 4th 1957 -- 50 years
ago! After that the race was on. Wasn't the joke that
the Russian Sputnik met the American one and they said "Guten
Morgen" to each other, since both had grabbed German scientists
after the war. Reminds me that some years ago the story was that
a UN cmte sat down to talk, looked around, and said, "Well, since
we're all here, might as well speak Hungarian."
>>> More on the RMGC
Royal Montreal is the oldest golf club in North America, having
been founded in 1873. In that year, a small group of eight gentlemen
sat in a dockside office and formed the Montreal Golf Club. Eleven
years later, in 1884, permission was granted by Queen Victoria to use
the "Royal" prefix.
=== FOODIE NEWS
It was too unusual not to try. Raincity Grill has a tomato
tasting menu. All five course with types of heritage and rare
tomatoes -- reminded me of Iron Chef. It probably will be over
this week but was an interesting experience and with matching wines
(also part of the 100-mile menu).
>>> A well-known poet: September 30 marked
the 800th anniversary of the birth of Jalal ad-Din Muhammad
Rumi (Persian poet b. 1207)
>>> OPEN MEETINGS
-- Reprinted with (thanks and) permission of Lidstone Young
Anderson from their September 2007
newsletter, distributed at the UBCM convention.
Top court considers
open meeting rules
The Supreme Court of
Canada's recent decision in London (City) v. RSJ Holdings
Inc. has once again highlighted the importance for local
governments of strictly complying with the clear statutory
requirements for open meetings.
In RSJ Holdings,
the City of London, Ontario, had passed an interim control bylaw that
created a one-year freeze on all development in a specific corridor
after holding two closed meetings and an eight-minute open meeting.
At the eight-minute open meeting, the municipal council introduced,
gave three readings to, and passed 32 bylaws, including the interim
control bylaw, without public debate or discussion.
A company affected by the
interim control bylaw applied for an order to quash it on the grounds
that the City had violated its statutory obligation to hold meetings
in public under the Ontario Municipal Act. Section 89(1)
of the Community Charter imposes the same general requirement
on local governments in B.C.
The Ontario Superior Court
of Justice dismissed the company's application, but the Ontario
Court of Appeal set aside the lower Court's decision and quashed the
bylaw. In response, London appealed the Court of Appeal's
judgement to the Supreme Court of Canada based on the argument that
its closed meetings fell within an exception in the Ontario
Municipal Act that permits closed meetings if they are allowed
under another statute. Section 90(1)(m) of the Community
Charter provides the same exception here in B.C. The City
argued that a section of the Ontario Planning Act allowed an
interim control bylaw to be passed without prior notice and without
holding a public hearing, and this means that a public meeting was not
required.
The Supreme Court of
Canada dismissed the City's appeal and found that the Planning
Act provisions that permitted the City to waive notice and a
public hearing prior to passing an interim control bylaw in no way
affected the statutory requirement to hold open meetings to adopt and
debate bylaws under the Municipal Act. The Court regarded
the City's duty to give advance notice and to hold a public meeting
as entirely distinct from its obligation to hold its meetings in
public. In short, the discussions on the interim control bylaw
still had to be conducted in an open public session. The
eight-minute open meeting at which the impugned bylaw was passed did
not cure the defect.
The Court also provided
some important commentary on the significance of the democratic nature
of local governments, and stated that courts defer to local
governments, in part, because they are democratic:
The democratic legitimacy
of municipal decisions does not spring solely from periodic elections,
but also from a decision-making process that is transparent,
accessible to the public, and mandated by law. When a municipal
government improperly acts with secrecy, this undermines the
democratic legitimacy of its decision, and such decisions, even
when intra vires, are less worthy of deference.
This case is a clear
reminder to local governments of the significance of the open meeting
rules and the basic distinction between the public's right to notice
and participation and the public's right to observe municipal
government in public.
Parvinder
Sahota
=== THEATREWATCH -- United Player=
s
at Jericho Arts Ctr
Lady Windermere's Fan by Oscar Wilde was written in 1892 but the
digs at love and married life are timeless. That's the play that
talks about lying in the ditch -- yes, but looking at the stars.
It was sold out Sept 29 and closed on the 30th.
=== CALENDAR to Oct 18th
=== [M Hall unless otherwise noted;
confirm b/c sometimes changes]
REMEMBER the Farmers' Markets:
Saturdays: Dundarave 10am - 4pm; Sundays: Ambleside (14th/Bellevue)
11am - 3pm
* Int'l Walk to School Week is Oct 1-5;
TransLink supports it with free transit rides for
students.
== Wednesday Oct 3rd ~
10am ~ CEC
~
6pm ~ Cmnty Ctr Governance WG at Srs' Ctr
== Thursday Oct 4th ~ 4:30pm ~ Design Review Cmte
(Moved from Sept 27)
== Oct 7th - 13th -- FIRE PREVENTION WEEK -- Practise an
escape plan!
This year, Fire Prevention Week focuses on the importance of both
having an escape plan AND practising it. Fire can grow and spread so
quickly, you could have as little as two minutes to escape
safely. When every second counts, advance planning is
essential.
== Thursday Oct 11 ~ 5:30pm ~ Rodgers Crk WG
== Saturday Oct 13th ~ 9am - 1pm ~ Gleneagles Cmnty Ctr
Garage Sale
*
NEIGHBOURHOODS FAIR * Park Royal North
==
Sat Oct 13th (10am - 5pm) & Sun Oct 14th (noon to 5pm)
== Sunday Oct 14th-- 1 - 3pm -- OPEN HOUSE at the Ambleside
Fire Station
Take the whole family and watch demonstrations of fire
extinguishers, the ladder truck, a rescue from the hose tower and auto
extrication tools. Take a turn spraying water, enjoy refreshments,
enter our draw, and visit with the fire fighters.
== Monday Oct 15th
~ Homelessness in a Growth Economy: Canada's 21st Century
Paradox, a lecture with Gordon Laird, October 15, SFU Surrey and
SFU Harbour Centre. Details:
http://www.sfu.ca/city/fpl6popup.htm
* October 15 to 22 is Homelessness Week *
~ North Shore Safe House -- thanks to a significant
donation provided by one WV family, it will re-open Nov 1st.
Donations for youth who have just 'transitioned' to the Safe House can
be dropped off at the M Hall, the Library, the Amb Youth Ctr, the
Arena, the FBG, Gleneagles Cmnty Ctr, or the Srs' Ctr. New items
needed: toothbrushes, toothpaste, deodorant, trial-sized
shampoo/rinse, and lip balm.
== Wednesday Oct 17th
~ 7:30am ~ Chamber of Commerce Breakfast at the Hollyburn
Country Club, 950 Crosscreek
SPEAKER: Ann Goodhart, West Vancouver
Library
Ms. Goodhart, Director of Library Services, will speak about
strategic library business initiatives. Come to the Chamber's
networking breakfast to hear how the leading-edge technology and
resources coming soon to the library will enhance your business bottom
line.
Cost: $25 for members; $35 for non-members; RSVP
admin@westvanchamber.com or call 926 6614
~ all at 7pm
~
Cmnty Ctr Governance WG at Lawn Bowling Club
~
Board of Variance
~
Library Board at the Library
== Thursday Oct 18th
~ 1:30 - 4:30pm ~ Heritage WG
~ 6 - 8pm: ~ Nbrhd
Info Mtg re proposed townhouse (445 - 13th) at location, Pat's
Restaurant
~ N.S.
Family Court & Youth Justice Cmte at CNV M Hall
~ 6:30pm ~ Film at the Library: Mondovino
Free event, no registration required. This documentary on
the impact of globalization on the world's different wine
regions weaves together the family sagas of billionaire Napa Valley
power brokers, the rivalry of two Florentine dynasties, and the
efforts of three generations of a Burgundian family fighting to
preserve their few acres of land.
+++ FERRY BUILDING GALLERY
+ DEFINING MOMENTS: INTERRUPTED LIFE -- Oct 2 -
14; George Dart, mixed media assemblage
Opening Night 6 - 8pm Oct 2nd; Artist in attendance 2 - 3pm
Oct 6th
+ "Walk...Don't Walk" -- Oct 16
- Nov 4; Janis Blyth, Acrylic Paintings; Sharon Christian: Mixed
Media Paintings and Sculptures.
Opening Night: 6 - 8pm Oct 16; Artists in Attendance:
2 - 3pm Oct 20
+++ WV MEMORIAL LIBRARY
+++
Wednesday 10th -- Fire Station Stories (3Y-5Y) --
1:30-2:15pm
Learn about fire prevention and
safety through puppetry and stories presented by Marcia from our own
West Vancouver Fire Department. Registration begins Mon., September
24.
Thursday 11th (and 18th) -- Gleneagles
Storytime (all ages) -- 10:30am at the Gleneagles
Community Centre.
Friday 12th -- Out
in Schools Film Screening -- 5 -
7pm
Watch films about topics in
today's high schools - homophobia, intolerance towards youth being
'different' and bullying. There will be a talk-back session after the
viewing. Refreshments provided by the Teen Advisory Group
(T.A.G.)
Tuesday 16th -- Reading James
Joyce's Ulysses -- 10:30am - 12:30pm. Drop in - no
registration required. Please bring your own copy of the
novel.
Wednesday 17th --
Family Storytime -- 1:30pm -- A half hour of stories, songs and
puppets for all ages.
+++ WV MUSEUM
+++ The Black
Slip -- The
Paintings of Jane Billaux (to Oct 27)
+++ WV ARTS COUNCIL
+++ visit www.silkpurse.ca for events (most ticketed)
---> For events at KMC, see
www.kaymeekcentre.com
=== WV Council NOTES Oct 1
===
1. APPROVAL OF AGENDA
7:03 adding Item 7, F&A recommendations; item 14
Correspondence re user fees
SSch: you will see a late email for Correspondence beside
you
2. MINUTES of Sept 17 ADOPTED
[7:04] Mayor: will give an update b/c of interest on dogs
and dogwalking
did step up enforcement this summer in response to long-standing
request
wish we had taken an approach [of] warning; b/c for years and
years not enforced
know and added right away added a dog-on-leash park in HBay
asking Cmnty to work with us; drafting an amendment re dangerous
dogs, esp pit bulls
higher fees for not picking up after dog
First Nations land will be taken back and shd plan ahead
b/c on Sounds Like Canada wrt Lee Fortune in HBay; I phoned her,
from our point of view warning no fee; she says she understands that;
acted as a pioneer; want to make it clear no expectation that she is
to pay a fine
wd be my recommendation to strike a WG on this, tremendous
interest, and that process seems to be working well
big issue but it's that little things that count in ppl's lives,
and requires our attention as soon as possible.
7:07 REPORTS
3.
Development Variance Permit Application No. 07?025 (480 Eastcot
Road)
At the September 10 Ccl Mtg, Ccl received the report dated
August 21 from the Community Planner.
CALL FOR PUBLIC INPUT -- No one -- All submissions
received
JC moved DVP which would allow for an existing garage located
within the required Front Yard be approved
Sop: go back in history to acknowledge a 20ft setback was pre
1947 and then go to 30ft
why go back rather than rule today 30ft rule of thumb that we
look at rule today
we've looked at 1912, 1921, now 1947 -- what about law of
today?
how many anomalies? is the bylaw worthwhile?
SJN: thousands of anomalies in the District
in this case we do not have a record of the original bldg or of
garages within 30ft and asked them; nbrs cannot remember garage not
being there
wd require variance; it's almost a legal non-conforming use and
we recommended requesting a variance and solicitors said that wd
protect them; and the nbrs approve
Sop: architect to re-do house and is garage part of that? almost
a new house or just doing a few things?
SJN: believe just a few things
Owner: Robert Forst (sp?), the idea was that if variances granted
we'd proceed with the plans we had; if not stuck with trying to update
the property that now exists
SJN: what's in your bldg permit application?
RF: an addition, not quite sure if you have all the info in front
of you
Sop: don't want to belabour this but we don't have plans in front
of us to see what owner wants to do
Mayor: at back of agenda
Sop: but it's just a picture and don't know what's new
if just an alteration, consideration for hardship?
SJN: believe drawings in package and believe conforming addition
to an existing house
the only non-conforming part is garage and that's what's before
you
JC: when I first saw this info, I thought here we go again, tear
down and monster house
as I read this, 2305sf and 2441sf so 135sf addition, not much, so
I'm supporting this
{er, excuse me, it's not about the addition it's about the
garage. Besides, as you see further down, SJN gives much
different, and higher, figures.}
VV: don't like messing around with ordinary ppl trying to get on
as best they can
but a bit alarmed, with Mr Nicholls saying thousands of
non-conforming houses
SJN: I may have been exaggerating, but believe it wd be
hundreds
VV: maybe have a bylaw streamlining this; isn't much of a problem
here, just doesn't conform with standards; ppl coming in front of us,
cd we not streamline so
SJN: if we had record of garage, wd not come
CAO: ....we are coming forward with a report
VV: wd like to see it almost like Correspondence, list
wd hv waved it through without his having to provide all this;
just facilitate things as minor as this
Mayor: Ccl has already delegated minor things; want to thank you
for consulting with your nbrs and getting their agreement
SJN: to [clarify], believe that the existing bldg is 2793sf,
the proposed bldg is 3658sf, and the addition is 1100sf upper floor
wch is a totally conforming upper floor
all of the bldg permit is conforming, question is whether they'd
have to demolish existing garage
{I'll leave readers to work out the various
numbers.........}
PASSED 7:18
4.
Development Variance Permit Application No. 07?029 (5771 Cranley
Drive)
At the September 10 Council Meeting, Council received the
report dated August 28 from the Community Planner
CALL FOR PUBLIC INPUT -- No one -- submissions
received
RD moved: the DVP which would provide for a small (319 square
feet) one storey addition with variances to the required Combined Side
Yard and Rear Yard be approved.
Sop: this is minor compared with the previous one; I looked at
the property
PASSED 7:19
5.
Provincial Electoral Area Boundary Readjustments Proposed by the BC
Electoral Area Boundary Commission in their Report of August 15,
2007
RECOMMENDED:THAT the report dated September 20 from the
Director of Administrative Services be received for the information of
Council.
Sop: always adjustment factor; look at shift of popn
WV will see Sq Nation Lands and Park Royal excluded from old
WV-Capilano
what obligations do we have wrt the Sq? that
what provincial responsibility {that's exactly what he said
but I don't quite understand that part, however do get the gist of his
question as DStu does} that we have to any agreements with the
Squamish, that doesn't alter b/c the electoral line alters?
CAO: correct
Sop: know done ev two or three years
VV: v interested to hear Gordon Campbell's speech last week;
surprised he wants more positions
not usually for increasing the bureaucracy
MS: happy to lead off the discussion; report gives us option
to oppose by Nov 30
two reasons: reduces our representation from 2/79 to 2/83, so
our representation is going down
second: there is no reason to increase the number of
MLAs
in priv sector downsizing, mergers, and takeovers, ppl learning
to do more with less, and yet in govt exact reverse applies
Canada's overgoverned; we've got 301 MPs, US has 100
Senators
and we've got senators doing nothing; about as useful as a hockey
player with a broken leg
we shd strenuously object to this increase in seats; start start
showing some leadership
let's stand up, in this cmnty say committed to reducing the
unnecessary costs of govt.
MPs, MLAs; we see the GVRD increase in stipend 20% to attend mtgs
even though paid by their Ms
MPs vote themselves a big increase, MLAs have; embarrassed this
Ccl actually considering it
time somebody stands up and says 'enough!'
write letter to Commission and say no on two grounds: no 1
reducing WV's representation and opposed to unnecessary increase in
cost
JF: we're being asked simply to receive this for information, not
approve
MS: if you read the report, Cclr F, the options are to receive or
to oppose, to make representation to commission; so I'm saying we shd
made a representation to the Commission
Mayor: arguing against
MS: don't mind receiving the report but will make second motion
for representation
JF: thank you; so will be a second motion
Mayor: believe Premier injected himself -- four or eight?
RB: Premier has made an announcement and suspended the
hearings
still believe ample time for submissions; target date for Feb in
2008
Mayor: how many MLAs recommended by Boundary Commission?
RB: two add'l
Mayor: important that the Commission recommended increase by two
and Premier's recommendation subsequently is for eight b/c north
Citizens most affected by WV residents 22nd to 29th affected,
Ralph Sultan's riding; Sea to Sky doesn't begin until 29th
Mayor: cd be that Ccl want to support Boundary Commission and not
Premier's
RD: from reading this wdn't know two, four, or eight extra b/c
this report just dealing with North Shore, these four ridings; go
ahead and receive that and later on, deal with that
unfair to say our MPs, MLAs, and M Cclrs don't do anything
I've seen Ralph Sultan in action, and works constantly, comes to
mtgs, busy on weekends, never seems to stop; we have a problem he
deals with it and quickly; he's there; works v hard; they don't get
rich
Paid little; in terms of money they got a raise and deserve
it
ppl don't realize how expensive it is going over to Victoria all
the time, have to fly, ferries too slow; have to have an apt over
there; a lot comes out of their own pocket; they work hard and earn
their money; not saying every single one does, but some do;
we've had good ppl in public office; wrong always to denigrate our
public servants, say they're useless -- how are we going to get ppl to
run for office?
This extends from M Ccl level to parliamentary level in
Ottawa
think MPs maybe sometimes too well-paid but not MLAs; want to
make that correction then we can go ahead and vote on this
motion
VV: I agree how hardworking and dedicated our two MLAs are
if he wants to increase our influence, put one of them in the
cabinet
RECEIPT PASSED
MS: move this Ccl write to the Electoral Boundary Commission
opposing any add'l mbrs
JC: second
JF: I'd like more time, see where proposed, before making up my
mind
RD: once we've looked at it; hold off now; shd be supporting two
add'l; lot of work and reasonable conclusion; eight seems like
gerrymandering and that's what we want to oppose
Electoral Comm has done a good job; wd prefer to support
them
BC is growing in popn, we do need some add'l
representation
although American Senate 100, it's by region, Congress has
almost 600; quite large compared with our Parliament
CAO: the premier's announcement was made after this report was
written
suggest defer, so cd do more research and report back to
Ccl
[JF moved deferral]
7:32
6.
Community Engagement Policy for approval
Carolanne Reynolds: tyvm
This wd be more of a victory if it weren't partly regaining lost
territory.
Nevertheless I wd prefer to view it as another step on the
journey toward openness.
About six years ago, a citizen's right to speak at cmte mtgs was
suddenly curtailed and it's taken until this year to restore that
right.
For the record, may I hasten to say that when the right was
removed, Cclrs Day and Soprovich were opposed to the removal wanting
it retained, but were outvoted. Cclrs Clark and Ferguson changed
mtg procedures so that a citizen was only allowed to speak at
the very end of the mtg, and then only wrt 'process and
disposition', two aspects that can be answered by staff and need not
take up volunteer mbrs' time.
More than ten cmnty groups objected and the then-president of the
British Properties Assn also spoke up saying cmtes shd have as much
information as possible before making a decision.
Some years ago in conversation with Cclr Clark he said he had not
realized we had wanted speakers to be thus limited.
I advocated that residents be able to speak only at the end of an
item, ie not take part in debate, and only to offer something relevant
to the topic. At the mtg's close, pertinent facts wd be too late
to be of use. Everyone agreed lobbying was to be done at Ccl,
not during cmte mtgs.
So tonight you have guidelines that I hope will ensure all open,
instead of closed, meetings and will encourage citizens to become
involved in their cmnty. I must also express appreciation to the
Mayor for her efforts toward openness.
This policy is a milestone on the way forward.
There are several points perhaps in need of clarification and
your attention.
Presumably we want to welcome residents to be involved so we shd
make it easy for them to attend mtgs and offer to serve since now
Working Groups, for example, can be formed at any time.
1
Someone asked me about applying and I discovered there is no
longer an application form on the website, so my first request is
that it be put on the website.
2
Secondly, apparently there are subcmte mtgs that are open to the
public and others that are not, so it wd be appreciated if Ccl wd
make clear that subcmtes, just as cmtes and Working Groups, are
open. This was done well and successfully by the
Fiscal Task Force.
3
Mtgs are on the Cmnty Calendar but also helpful wd be having
residents on an email notice list -- this is already done by the
Communications Mgr for press releases, and at the last Finance &
Audit Cmte mtg, the CAO offered arrangements [to be notified by email]
for their mtgs and subcmte mtgs.
It is heartening to see such sincere
efforts on Ccl's part moving ahead with these measures.
It has come to my attention however that some on the groups are
not familiar with the positive steps Ccl has been taking.
A few months ago in spite of the guidelines, a staff mbr
admonished a citizen that a question cd only be wrt process and
disposition, and recently some Chairs have said that they were not
aware citizens were allowed to offer something relevant at the end of
an item just before the next.
May I point out however that all I'd asked for is something
pertinent but in a recent mtg the Mayor went further and said anything
-- so I'll leave that distinction up to Council, but the point is
that clarification ought to be sent out to all the cmtes/groups to
avoid uncertainty.
Again, thank you very much for the progressive path underway now
and we are grateful for the Mayor's leadership in this area.
[Ccl DISCUSSION]
Mayor: tyvm
[JF moved approval; seconded by Sop]
VV: read cmte report attached to this motion; don't find it
sufficiently complete to be adopted as possible; or in camera
explained thought wd hv been in terms of Cmnty Charter
keep standing cmtes, instead of select cmtes we have WGs
Minor changes/differences only been able to discover two:
instead of minutes, notes are taken and outline of mtg content rather
than an agenda; whereas a vote, WGs not allowed a vote but consensus
by other means; none of these matters addressed in this
doc
ppl are left wondering what journey from Cmnty Charter
description of Standing cmtes and Select cmtes to the new system,
Working Groups
technical and minor; and no explanation of any cost-savings
don't believe this doc in sufficient detail or depth; doesn't
describe how improved matters
nothing about reassurance wrt conflict of interest, special
interests; think that's important
we've had ppl, reps of cmnty groups, really upset wrt Amb WG,
really quite upset with composition
they basically claimed it contained basically 70% of ppl from
the devt cmnty and only one representative citizen
CEC rather than three cclrs as other Standing Cmtes described in
Cmnty Charter, has mayor plus two cclrs choosing, and wonder if wisest
way to go; we're not just choosing for what we do, regardless of who
is in what
{Some background. Yes the CEC selects mbrs of the WGs.
I'm a mbr of the CEC and, not wanting to be in the position of judging
fellow residents, recommended that the three mbrs of Ccl on the CEC be
the ones to choose, not the citizen mbrs. This was done.
What I assumed Ccl wd do, is that those selected wd be forwarded to
Ccl as a whole for confirmation, as was done previously with the adv
cmtes wch also had three Ccl mbrs doing the selecting for Ccl's
approval. This is the first indication I've had that the three
do it independently from the rest of Ccl -- but I leave it up to Ccl
to straighten this out.}
think wisdom of Cmnty Charter, three cclrs shall be on a standing
cmte wiser than a mayor and two cclrs b/c we had one, a result, that
frankly ppl didn't like; not that one person has done anything wrong,
just wonder if structure wasn't to do with it
maybe be wiser to rethink that; like the tone of this
document; has a lot of feel-good things about it
not technical enough, doesn't go into Cmnty Charter and why we
have deviated from it; wd like to see that added; nice as an
introductory paper but hasn't finished the job yet, and I'm not ready
to approve it in this condition
Mayor: what we're discussing is broad umbrella policy, from
coming to a Ccl mtg to running for Ccl
certainly according to the Charter mayor part of ev cmte, that's
discretionary
another policy wrt WG comments by Cclr V, more appropriately
directed to the WG guidelines; it does describe conflict of
interest
we as a cmte hosted a mtg with the WGs to comment on this --
represents 120 who've worked with this for over a year; this has their
approval
CEC meeting this week; never has been a policy, meeting this
week; if Ccl not ready to pass, can refer back
JF: in response to Cclr V's remarks that Amb WG was comprised of
professionals and only one resident, and in fact that is not the
case
three property owners, {mouth away from microphone but she
might have said three} biz ppl, three residents from Amb area, the
fact that the two ppl who didn't think that the area residents were
well enough represented weren't on the WG, wd hv had much more to do
with the fact that they didn't think enough
There were three residents and that's why they were there
unfortunate that this misperception continues to be played
up
{ah, what's left unsaid is indicative.
You may have noticed JF in response to VV claims there are
three residents but completely omits saying that there were 11 on the
Amb WG. Not only that, and add'l biz person (from Ch of
Commerce) was put on by JF as Chair and didn't even go through the
process of having the CEC appoint! Only Dolly Cartwright of the
three 'residents' (and one was a student) attended all Amb WG mtgs wch
is why those who were observing thought there was only
one.
Doesn't three out of 11 or so sort of indicate the
'balance'?
There's no doubt that the expertise and experience of the
Amb biz ppl is essential to the Amb WG. It wd also not be
'balanced' to have nine out of eleven being local residents -- risking
NIMBY vs free upzoning (without cmnty benefit or
review).}
CAO: the other document Ccl will be dealing with shortly, ccl
procedure bylaw wch will show how our processes tie to the Cmnty
Charter
RD: we've made a lot of progress in last two years; pleased with
how WGs functioning
wd also like to agree with Cclr F about Amb WG; easy to say he or
she is a devpr but doesn't
Karl Gustavson is an architect but he has a distinguished history
of service in WV, Design Panel, etc; be careful in labelling ppl
{Again, perspective needed. Yes, Karl G has a history
of service but keep in mind he's an architect and his 'service', cmte
mbrship, has been in the area of Planning and Design as RD says but
these are areas in wch he makes his living. A lot of motivation,
no?
No doubt being involved in devt in WV is an advantage --
being in on the ground floor, so to speak as he is/was with the Amb
WG.
Also, I shd mention that KG was the architect for Delany's
in Dundarave, a building we all like and admire as tasteful and an
asset to the village.
hm...........
Something has just occurred to me in writing
this.
Above VV pointed out one of the changes between the
previous task forces and cmtes and the new WGs was 'consensus' rather
than votes. It just clicked. Then, unless you're fortunate
enough to attend a mtg, you won't know who voted in favour of higher
density for example, and who didn't -- votes are neither taken nor
recorded. Very handy for denial.
As for notes instead of mtgs also, some staff thought they
wd just put the notes up on the webpage, I urged that they be
circulated first to the mbrs before going up in case they wanted to
change or add anything.
Back to cost, as VV also referred to. Initially they
said it wd be cheaper but it became clear that cclrs were not going to
be taking the notes so staff needed after all.
Readers of this newsletter will recall that several WGs
started out with closed mtgs to my dismay but after exposed that was
stopped.
Ya gotta be alert to cut them off at the
pass!
My next question is how they cd ever have a closed mtg even
if the item meets the legislation when they're simply appointed and
neither swear or sign anything about confidentiality.
Ah, maybe the last bastion of secrecy is succumbing to
sunlight.}
WG job was reaching balanced recommendations and avoiding
extremes; they didn't touch the marina wch wd be disastrous;
compliment the group and keep it in mind
Sop: I sit on three of these WGs and I've witnessed, incredible
ability for citizens to be involved
evident to me WGs, a spinoff from this Cmnty Engagement activity,
has proved to be successful
an example -- recent success of a forum; email saying in all the
years never found one as successful; citizens, no consultant
we hv six, two in audience tonight, not Ccl; asked them to go
out
these are intelligent, v bright indivs
do support Cclr V's maybe some tie in; for instance only mayor
and two cclrs wd be on cmtes -- those are elected officials and they
were the ones to select
go through and work it down; tie in other policy, Ccl procedure;
guess can be at arm's length with this
yes, I like this but want more references
VV: first one I want to make from Cmnty Charter
didn't mean to imply if Mayor and two cclrs, didn't mean to imply
Mayor was somehow taking more than charter describes
Charter does say mayor must appoint so it gives right to Mayor to
appoint all; if she shares it, do we get a diff result?
if three cclrs wd probably hv bn different; not just us, it's
policy and stays here long after we've gone; important to think of
diff results from diff structures
the other point, I really do think there's an important point
to be made: on one hand rep of cmnty and the other hand contain
expertise, but when it comes to devt and redevt, in hands of those
with conflict of interest -- if we upzone property, architects, ppl
involved in that, work will have opportunities. I have a real
question about the standard.
The law is clear. If remotest hint of a future conflict
of interest the cclr goes out, can't discuss it at all, let alone
vote
we take subject matter Ccl can't deal with it directly and
then take it to a set of ppl where those rules don't apply, and we
accept as experts ppl who do have an interest in the outcome, and
these cmtes are supposed to influence our policy
I think there are some incongruities here. I think that
particular subject of potential interests, special interests, vested
interests, and conflict of interest
{Good point. Mbrs of Ccl have to excuse themselves if
possibility of conflict of interest and in the past couple of years
the Mayor and Cclrs Smith and Soprovich have duly declared it and
withdrawn from the Chamber and debate.
At this mtg it seems a WG mbr can just say he has a
conflict of interest but then stay, debate, and be part of the
consensus.}
in the ppl on the cmtes even though an indiv must declare a
conflict of interest to the Chair of the WG (not nec a mbr of Ccl),
with these matters not fully discussed with Ccl, feel shdn't simply
accept
JF: to reiterate, the CEC is completely different from the policy
that sets out the WGs
that is where all the info is contained, coming to Ccl, then Ccl
to discuss and debate
unfortunate that Cclr V resigned from the CEC, had she stayed on
she wd have a better understanding
Mayor: [vote; VV opposed] Motion carries, and pleased a couple of
mbrs here tonight
7:51
7. Tax
Exemption Bylaw No. 4524, 2007 for three readings
RL: two reports
annual bylaw for 2008; tax exemptions quite restrictive, only
three: srs' housing, nonprofit cmnty care, SD45, and land surrounding
churches
notwithstanding how restrictive that restriction has been, it
involves over $200K of taxation; been in place for many
years
staff has brought forth no changes at this time
F&A Cmte came up with some comments and have come up with
separate report of its own
they view them as financial grants to these orgs and feel shd
be if not the same then similar to M grants policy
four recommendations: commencing 2009 taxation year the
approach be handled by a cmte wch wd view these exemptions as
financial grants
evaluated in terms of what these groups contribute to the cmnty
in exchange for the permissive tax exemption, they wd make decisions
accordingly
proposing staff start communicating with these groups,
encourage them to describe to us as to what benefits they do provide
to cmnty and they be put on notice there'll be a formal application
process for 2009
JF: reading this I was thinking about benefits to cmnty,
understand churches and land exempt b/c of their benefits, then
noticed one of the churches has a school on its property, provincial
grants; is St Anthony's taxfree or taxed as Collingwood and
Mulgrave?
RL: complicated; how they've handled it has changed
only in last couple of years land was not exempt; wd have to look
at it prop by prop to see what
JC: I move:
1 Ccl request a report from the Social Services Mgr,
detailing what if anything organizations receiving permissive tax
exemptions are doing to meet the need in the cmnty further than their
primary function
2 that orgs receiving the permissive tax exemption for 2008 be
asked to comment on social services and in particular daycare
services
3 orgs receiving for 2008 be put on notice that the process is
under review for 2009
4 approach taken be harmonized with Ccl grants process for
2009
Sop: as friendly amendment, No 5, this be passed on the Grants
WG; we have been looking at this; aware of exemptions but not of major
change
WG wd challenge this and want to see how impact
JC: no problem, wd think WG wd be involved anyway
MS: intent is not to take on churches and nonprofit
groups
just in line with fiscal Task Force, grants
justified
space crisis, pass on to these groups if spaces for daycare,
boy scouts, then by all means come forward and offer up that
space
RD: seems okay but force these organizations to provide a lot of
reports, hurdles, and we already know providing cmnty services?
seems an elaborate process
if have add'l space we can find that out without writing
reports
many don't have facilities, sit down, forget, too late to get
report
why churches have to report? I'm opposed, think excessive
RL: not our intention to make the process onerous and we're not
looking for a lot of work to do
not unusual for a M to review how doing these things
Sop: the social services WG will look at this; we're looking at
grants in general; time and dollars
said a long time ago when Charter came in prov wd give us a
basket of tools to deal with these things but not money
are we doing right thing? right model for grants? looking at
this
bring to conclusion after public and WGs have had a chance to
look at this
maybe an answer, but just to say 2009 suddenly do some chopping
down the middle, can't accept that; so hope some exercise here
JC: no suggestion of chopping down the middle; Finance Cmte
looking at ev aspect of finance and that's what they're doing; thought
went around table and passed on to Ccl
Ccl overlooking $300K and no one said it shd change, just
we/public shd know where we're not getting money/taxation; just good
biz
MS: Mr Laing and Cclr Clark said it eloquently, no intent new
bureaucracy here; if you have more than a quarter of a million dollars
going out, shd have short, concise logical process to evaluate
what you're getting for that public money
RD: no objection referring to Social Services Cmte; understand
what my colleagues are saying, Cclr Clark and Smith; not sure sound
biz practices relate to srs' housing, churches.
...but equating srs' housing to churches, yes they have to manage
their affairs, finances, what's going to be achieved?
know srs not and churches not going to be taxed, daycares aren't
going to be taxes; I can guarantee it, 16 years on Ccl, can guarantee
it, one or two will miss or forget and omigosh! then all sorts of
problems.
we KNOW these groups shd be tax exempt, know what services are
being provided; why are we doing this. It is onerous and
unnecessary.
Sop, wanting to speak: third turn?
Mayor: No such thing as a third turn. Cclr V hasn't had a
first
VV: hope wording doesn't confuse anyone; not the fact that
they're exempt, they have their exemption anyway, we just want a paper
summarizing what they receive; one side of one sheet of paper; or a
telephone interview
no objection to this data being requested from them; if not a
condition to prior to exemption
hope we can do this and not cause any fear
CAO: the intent is not to implement it for the upcoming taxation
year; intent just to gather information; it's discretionary,
exemption, entirely up to Ccl
JF: ensure exemptions meet Ccl's values; not clear don't have
good records
preschools have very good documentation as to hours, ages of chn,
etc
can't believe churches don't have a record; don't think it's
going to be onerous
MS: on a positive, wrap up in positive way
Sop: I'll wrap up, I'm after you
MS: okay, I'll finish
the Child Care WG has already been approached b/c a church has
already come forth; didn't know space needed, we've got space
Sop: have to read between the lines
says org be "put on notice" exemption under review
for 2009 -- sends up flags
what does that tell you?
approach will be harmonized with the Grants process, wch is the
doling out of money
JC: exactly what you asked for
Mayor: excuse
Sop: I'm getting to my point; so on 4th one, all of this really
to say what we're doing with monies and exemptions, need as we've
witnessed of lack of space; coordinating is to say what's best focus;
can have staff work on this; grants in future, have to be thought out,
part of WG's [task] all part of process
maybe coming at end of year with an interim report; air of
consideration, v positive effects; esp looking at space
MS: question.
RD: I seldom talk twice let alone three times, so I'm really
going to go for it this time
like what Cclr Smith says, if that the sole purpose; like intent
but poorly written; shd be deferred and rewritten; be clear and not
threatening
right with Cclr Smith; shd pursue all spaces we can for childcare
and if space av, shd find it
Mayor: item 3, be put on notice wrong tone
laudable F&A cmte wants to ........ [review?]
permissive, makes good sense
Ccl cd address these five separately
CAO: put on notice may be harsh, cd say under review
Mayor: don't support review; split motion
VOTE: item 1 Carried; Item 2 Carried; Item 3 fails; Item 4
carried; Item 5 carried
JC: no 3's been defeated, how those receiving tax exemption be
aware if not be on notice or be advised?
Mayor: Ccl has supported 4, that will come out in the friendly
conversations in Soc Services WG
JF: defeating No 3 makes intent not clear; why looking into these
things if not for a review?
Mayor: cd go back over the debate....
MS: I didn't vote on no 3 b/c thought MMgr was going to reword
it
{NB: might then mislead Mayor, b/c anyone who does not vote is
deemed to be in favour.}
we are going to review but not threatening
Mayor: majority saw this as threatening; perhaps this puts on
strong footing; obviously F&A comte may make further
recommendations; ev is probably always under review.
JC: Tax Exemption bylaw three readings; CARRIED
815
8. Fees and
Charges Bylaw No. 4414, 2005, Amendment Bylaw No. 4527,
2007 for three readings
Colin Miller: VP of WV Soccer Club re Schedule 11 G and to seek
it be deferred for a period of time
know Ccl has received some emails but some incorrect info has
crept into
we have been talking; some think out of blue; we as Soccer Club
have not received info from M as to what is to be covered by the user
fees
met with Mr Pike early in the summer and he was generous with his
time
what Soccer Bd is looking for, realize not an easy exercise; cost
of mowing a field not easy to identify to the penny
we are interested in knowing what those costs are until and
unless we have that figure can't tell if amt fair to soccer
players
when last I was before Ccl, I'm not going to point fingers, but
there hasn't been communication since my last appearance
learned that other groups have been surprised this has been
moving through system
came to our notice when we received a bill for $31K, don't
know when others received their bills
what I raised when last before Ccl was that Soccer sets its
budget in January, in Feb pay on line, and all received by May; and it
was in that time period it came up
as I understand it it was to be deferred while we had that
opportunity to consult
the grass and rock dust field, user field we want to focus
on
our club already pays $40K annually toward that artificial
turf fields but we don't have that other $31K in the budget and it wd
be v difficult to go back to players and charge $15 at this
time
in fairness we're asking to be able to discuss with the M what
the appropriate amt shd be and kick in next Sept season and then we
can collect the money
we cd double the money next year but those aren't necessarily the
players that used it this year -- some new and some left; most players
leave at 18 to go on
the other difficulty and caused emails, we weren't given
notice that this was coming before this mtg until the agenda was
released
{Here's another project. Agendas come out on
Thursdays at 4:30pm for the Monday ccl mtg. There's no way we
can think that there isn't a tentative agenda staff have and then
finalize later. It does mean, however, IF COUNCIL DECIDES/SETS A
POLICY, those tentative agendas can be on the website three weeks
ahead, but only finalized then on Thursday as time dictates and
research/memos are ready. Ccl themselves only get the agenda on
Wednesdays. With a commitment to openness and transparency, this
change in providing agenda items earlier wd go a long way to informing
the public and avoiding their feeling things are sprung on them and
they get little notice so no time to prepare for ccl mtgs and issues
of interest to them.
How about it?
A NV mayor some years ago said their agendas were
circulated three weeks ahead (but not to the public -- so I say WV can
take a step further ahead and open up to the public!).}
this $31K; here asking you to defer Schedule 11G; want to be able
to engage the M on this important issue
Graham Walker: live in DNV but on exec of WV Field Hockey Club
and here with some other exec mbrs
also here asking to defer Schedule 11G; brevity just echo his
comments; slightly diff perspective
did have consultative process last March (2007); sports advisory
forum mtg
did have a rep from field hockey group at that mtg
concerns were expressed at that mtg
since then been consultation with F H club for users of the grass
fields
as Mr Miller hinted, we received notice of this mtg and on
agenda, through a series of emails from the soccer club
involved in Hugo Ray right now and see benefits of user fees if
done properly
must be done fairly to all user groups, proportionate to degree
of use, and applied consistently
concerns expressed at the adv forum mtg in March are as
follows:
payments shd be related to the actual use of the premises
from DWV website there are 33 grass and gravel fields; 28
soccer; 21 baseball/softball; and four for field hockey
for the WV Field Hockey Club, the jr players who use the four at
Hugo Ray are under seven and under ten age group range, rest largely
play on turf fields in NV and WV
try to keep fees as low as we can for young; incentive to join
and they're future
the under seven and under eight field hockey players play and
practise once a week over a ten-week period April through June; not
Sept through March as for soccer
under nines and tens, use Hugo Ray on a limited basis, during
spring and summer months
note from bylaws, great deal of uncertainty as to how it's going
to be applied
fee of $15, one time only? per person per year? or my daughter
who plays in field hockey, and other sports in WV; not clear to us and
haven't had opportunity to have input into the scope of those
fees
may be other legitimate options to consider, for instance, hourly
or match rates might be preferable and may be just as advantageous to
the District in the long run
echo Mr Miller's re setting fees, not possible to retroactively
collect from our players
another concern wd like some consultation with Mr Pike's
group
want any fees be put back into repair facilities rather than
general revenue (happened in Vancouver don't want to happen on
NSh)
WV FH group wd like there to be an open consultation process
with other groups
requests from exec; was no followup discussion to our points
raised last March
respectfully defer Schedule 11G till more
consultation
Ken Booth: don't represent an assn; but 4K children
I've got four chn, all under 13 years old, play field hockey,
soccer, etc; ours one of the emails; bit of a shock to see user
fees
$15 per child not much but four kids is quite a bit; another
tax grab by the M
when I was growing up fields were provided by the City; obviously
budget issue here
astounding users asked for something City shd be providing
as one of your emails said, will there be a user fee next year
for seawall?
I'd put it stronger -- think you guys shd stop these fees,
obviously something wrong with your budget not allocated enough for
mntnce of fields
fees not put into gen revenue
Mayor: go to Mr Pike for summary
KP: those presentations changed my [remarks] a bit
girls did send out email, not enough consultation, hardship,
inconvenient, fees will rise over time
charges were instituted in the 2007 budget partly result of
recommendation from the Fiscal Task Force, not to mntnce but to
subsidy
changes made in this past year, largely reducing the subsidy for
rec progs whether fields or srs' ctr, cost to swim, and most of the
subsidies are to chn and srs
end of March, a field users' cmte and this was all that was
discussed at that mtg
rugby, track and field doesn't apply
Mar 29th townhall mtg on budget and some urged even more rapid
reduction in the subsidy for rec services; no one from sports groups
commented
through web -- asked ppl about fees and comment primarily from
seniors
{Rather interesting. It's a pity so few ppl take an
interest in municipal affairs. This results in complaints and
expressions of surprise when a devt or rezoning happens in their area,
or a cost such as this for some users. Yet some proposals have
been on the books or being discussed for many weeks or months; and the
budget is discussed for months so anyone who wants to find out is able
to. Not keeping informed often means things happen you wd hv or
cd hv tried to change. The system is being opened up by this
Ccl, but if they do their part, residents must do theirs and and get
involved. Insist on getting the information you want and then
give your ideas to Ccl for their consideration.
Be a part of your cmnty!}
Apr 30 as noted, Mr Miller did appear and he did not object to
the fee but as to timing b/c fees already been collected
May 11 when fee included in budget along with all the changes and
fee increases contained therein and that night a number of seniors
again wrt fees but no one else
over the summer, parks mgr had a number of conversations wrt
fees
Yes, Mr Miller was aware, communications back and forth, cd hv bn
more effective
know v well Field Hockey well aware of fee implementation
like Mr Miller, we're not interested in pointing fingers
enormous respect for those who run sport in this cmnty
find way to do more effectively; prepared to look at a whole
variety of things
2008? this is not retroactive, budget said wd be implemented
in Sept (2007)
like Mr Walker, an administrative burden; the $15 was chosen b/c
relatively simple and does not require a lot of staff time to figure
out how many, ages, wch fields, etc, simple both for us and the sports
groups
Mayor: one other thing to put in context, this was debated in
Ccl last spring; made the tax rate increase the lowest in the region;
also wishing to shift to user fees based on WV survey data based on
last two cmnty-wide surveys suggesting that most residents favour that
as an equitable way to distribute costs; now we're testing that; we cd
be wrong
difficult to find any politician saying raising taxes 3% is
not nearly enough
challenge facing this Ccl; now looking five years out,
implementing slowly over time
with what we know about wages and CPI, going to require cutting
potentially $5M out of our operating budget -- it's significant; going
to require off of us to work with the cmnty; going to require much
better consultation, and the Sports Forum is the obvious place to
start; it started and stopped, don't think it has ever been properly
supported by staff or attended to by volunteers that we value so
highly in the cmnty, so we have to do better
Ccl appreciates this input but wish we cd hv gotten it in
March, but human nature not to get involved in budget debates when
there's so many things on the table
heart of cmnty
Ccl is trying to make a responsible fiscal decision, balance with
what is fair; challenging ourselves to understand and to keep pace
with costs, if this is reasonable
I think we're one of the few Ms that doesn't charge a field user
fee;
KP: haven't exact numbers, certainly they do in NV, some others
do and others starting to charge all across the Lower Mainland
MS: introduce bylaw, first reading
[Both CARRIED; moved second reading]
I certainly support concept of userpay
our budget was passed in May; a lot of these groups already
had their 2007 budgets set and collected fees
Girls' softball group's season was long since over; don't know
how they can retroactively collect the user fee for the
field
I don't like to defer money we need in our budget, in the
interest of fairplay; direct staff not collect fees for 2007 but apply
them as approved for 2008
Mayor: amendment? well, discussion
VV: basically agree with Cclr Smith; difficulty in administrative
position; retroactively don't think that works
shd implement for 2008 but can we implement more, a larger amt;
maybe state a percentage
amendment don't collect on Sch 11G but 2008 say 2 or 3%
higher?
Mayor: if we defer this, proper consultation asked for and
proceed from there
Sop: agree we shdn't do anything in 2007
we sat and pushed for zero tax rate increase; easing the
burden on the taxpayer
we tell kids run on fields and breathe in fresh air
are we so hard up we can't find another way to raise some
funds?
start a Sports WG and get down to something realistic about
what going to do
understand Fiscal group looking for ways and
means
but health? what does it come down to?
are we saving anything in the long run? are we serving
anyone?
find our way through financial quagmire
only going to do it by working with these ppl
you mentioned it, in fact, at election time, where's WG on
Sports?
until then, defer
JF: interesting discussion; clearly remember discussion during
budget debate
I was the only one who spoke in opposition to increasing user
fees, in spite of the fact I thought I made a v strong presentation
saying it wd be the seniors and the youth of our cmnty who wd bear the
brunt of these user fee changes, and I did not vote for the budget as
a consequence; everyone else on the Ccl voted for the budget and voted
to increase the user fees and decrease subsidization of sports,
recreation, and cultural activities, etc
So my question now is, budget has been passed, money has been
allocated, fine to say we can afford $30K but where's it coming from?
who else is going to feel the pinch of reduced services/programs b/c
we're not going to collect the $30K in the budget Ccl
passed?
if not collecting from sports, then how about seniors? shd
they be given an exemption this time around as well? how about other
increases in user fees?
Seems to me shd be able to explain fair treatment of all the
user groups
if we're going to allow one user group to be exempt then maybe
shd hv discussion around all to be exempt this year?
{Good points all, Jeanie.}
CAO: F&A CMte working on a policy wrt user fees and
subsidies and will come to Ccl this fall
JC: I support user fees, if you're going to use anything, you
have to pay for it; club, sport, I've done it and paid my way
I do find, however, the logistics, a nightmare; and make
suggestion now to remove 11G
Sop: second
CAO: you want to amend 11G to be effective Jan 1, then
intervening period to discuss
companion motion to ask Dir/Fin to amend budget and can
include that in the budget amendment bylaw
Mayor: so bylaw amended to Jan 1
CAO: wrt annual fees, grass all-weather turf
Mayor: as amendment then whole?
KP: b/c from Fiscal Sustainability Task Force, the way we proceed
covers the use of all fields, not just grass
Sop: so goes to 2008; what about if not $15?
CAO: will be new fees and charges bylaw; comes forth ev
year
Ccl will be in position to decide wrt 2008
Sop: problem I see; artificial turf has a big sign, don't go
there
find that a little bit disconcerting, fee for what we pay tax
on and now clamping onto another $15 for ev child that wants to run on
a field
wd this whole thing work if not a mass of volunteers and we never
consider that aspect
looking at tax dollars, real good sit down
Mayor: that's speaking against the amendment
MS: wd like to speak to some; 11G also includes the artificial
fields so serious mistake
Mayor: that's rental rates, not annual fee; Mr Pike was referring
to all forms, p 109
MS: so to be clear re new charge
CAO: amending wd come into effect Jan 1; allows it to talk to
groups regardless of their cycle
know dealt with within Calendar
Mayor: a question on the amendment having 11G effective Jan
CAO; wrt annual fees
Sop: $15
Mayor: amendment carries; now third reading
MS: v unfortunate some cclrs portraying themselves as
rosy-cheeked chn and imposing fees
not really a user-fee per se
we subsidise to the tune of $6M a year; we don't charge fees
for rec and cultural services, not fair to say we do
to be frank and honest with cmnty, real dilemma to deal
with
I wasn't on Ccl when decided to spend $50M of our
reserves
don't want to spend -- Cclr Clrk and I -- nickel and dime
everyone to death
not going to sit here and listen to this nonsense any
more
Mayor: motion carries; third reading? more discussion?
Sop: not about any one cclr but we've not had dialogue wrt our
decisions in public
tonight
F&A Cmte to budget to Ccl; where's linkage? we don't have
it
not one cclr or another, but lost what we're doing and haven't
communicated well
Mayor: I don't agree with that
CAO: sports group clear user fees; some discussion about
consultation, method, but don't think any confusion, budget
process
Mayor: notice went out; feedback; Fiscal & Audit Cmte meets
ev two weeks, in past once a year for five minutes
working on annual; not sustainable financial management
can't do without cmnty; all have to take responsibility;
serious challenges; can always do better; we have begun
As well, we didn't win the Govt Finance Ofcrs' award of NAm for
our annual report for no reason; we won it b/c we had performance
measures in there; we're trying our v best to be as clear and
straightforward with the cmnty as we can; so we'll keep going.
{This does need some qualification. The award is
judged solely on the quality of the municipality's annual financial
report and has nothing to do with sustainable financial management.
Not to mention that of the almost 40 Canadian municipalities that paid
the fee to enter the competition, 35 won awards. Not sure where
the Mayor gets the idea that the award was won because of performance
measures. Of the 16 pages of criteria listed on the www.gfoa.org
website for this award, nowhere can one find performance measures,
value for money audits, or sustainability. Points are awarded,
however, for font size and sequential page numbers (p15, misc criteria
nos 4 and 8, so I kid you not).
Pls do not misinterpret; the award does mean
something.}
[Third reading passes]
CAO: follow-up motion wrt consulting
Mayor: motion passes third reading; believe Cclr Clark has
JC: Ccl have Sports Forum
RD; forum? in favour WG
Mayor: wording, Cmnty Sports WG; CEC set up?
yes, CARRIED
CAO: I take it that Ccl understands that we will be
bringing forward in the budget amendment bylaw to deal with this; it's
awful late in the year, and I wdn't to get into the position where we
have to significantly cut services in another area in order to address
this particular adjustment.
9:03
9. Solid
Waste Utility Bylaw No. 4118, 1998, Amendment Bylaw
No. 4528, 2007 for three readings
Mayor: staff?
CAO: Phil Bates may be able and Al Lynch from Recycling
Group
PB: Changing for sgl- and multi-family residents. Metro
Vancouver approved the extension of existing material bans at all of
its transfer stations and waste collection facilities.
all blue boxes and under prov stewardship and yard and garden
waste
prohibited as of Jan 2008; always encouraged as common practice
in WV
blue boxes all in place; yard waste is currently a nine-month
prog and staff recommends extend to year long
....winter storms and blowdown
$1.46 nominal increase for 12 months
Al Lynch is here from NSh Recycling
Mayor: Mr Lynch, wd you like to add anything about the zero-waste
challenge
AL: Metro Vancouver driving what all the Ms are doing
following their lead; we don't have any choice, can't devp a food
composting site
trying to maximize what already; will devp a strong communication
prog to help residents understand
Mayor: goal to go beyond 50% but I think WV a bit above
that
challenges we face wrt landfill; sooner than expected b/c of
housing boom
Vanc has already moved not to include demolition in landfill,
will have to be dealt with separately
moving organics from waste stream in Vanc; been successful in
Seattle
residential waste is only a third
VV moved:
1. The municipal
residential curbside yard trimmings collection program be extended
from 9 months to a full 12 months as of December 1, 2007; and
2. The program of
providing for free drop off of yard trimmings up to 100 kilograms per
day for the first trip of the day at the North Shore Transfer Station
be eliminated as of January 1, 2008.
Sop: think has been tremendously successful; certain things we
can't recycle
the v garbage we send to recycle is put in plastic bag that
doesn't recycle
AL: plastic bags constitute v tiny proportion or the waste
stream, from a sanitation standpoint and cleanliness of garbage
containers, don't know what the option wd be; residents willing to
wash can every week, challenge if you don't use something to line your
garbage can b/c material will often stick to the sides; challenge for
collectors and residents
as we progress, have less and less to dispose of
increase number of stewardship progs, and prohibit things from
going in the garbage, going to be less and less as we go on
don't know there's any viable alternative to plastic garbage
bags
THREE READINGS PASSED
9:10
BYLAWS ADOPTED
10. Local Area Service
Lane Paving Construction 1300 Block Jefferson and Inglewood Avenue and
1160 - 14th Street Bylaw No. 4526, 2007
PASSED
11. Animal Control Bylaw
4208, 2000, Amendment Bylaw 4520, 2007
MS: going to take a look at this whole question; hate to see
us so restrictive made to feel like a criminal
CAO: are intending to review the bylaw; ppl can walk their
dogs on leash in most public spaces; prob in parks, issues in areas of
access and egress even within parks
Mayor: I'd be interested in the staff recommendations on the
public process for that as well. That is critical.
{Just noticed: if you go to the DWV hompage you can click on
www.westvancouver.ca/dogs for info, and I think they've set up a forum
for ppl to write in.}
9:12
CONSENT AGENDA ITEMS
12. Consent Agenda Items -
Reports and Correspondence for approval
=B7 Item 13 -
Development Variance Permit Application No. 07?038
(2929 Altamont Crescent) (to set date for consideration);
and
=B7 Item 14 -
Correspondence List.
MS: item 4 and 17
REPORTS FOR CONSENT AGENDA
13. Development
Variance Permit Application No. 07-038 (2929 Altamont
Crescent) received for consideration on Monday, October 22,
2007.
9:13
14: CORRESPONDENCE LIST FOR CONSENT AGENDA
...
(4) Undated, 2007, regarding
Lack of Adequate Parking at the Community Centre and [Seniors']
Centre
Referred to the Director of Parks & Community Services for
consideration and response.
MS: triggers a greater question; obviously a parking issue at the
srs' ctr
was playing bridge at srs' ctr and had to park two blocks away in
front of someone's house
in parking study, potential shortage of 45% of needed parking
spaces when new cmnty ctr opens
are we going to return the front pkg until ctr finished and/or
until see if adequate when ctr finished?
KP: always our intent to leave, that's why put there during this
period, but became quite clear we needed access via that parking
area
plan to reduce by 50% was not feasible to project mgr, big
vehicles coming in, not safe so abided by request and removed for rest
of construction [period]; movement of large cranes right to the
end
caused us some difficulty, short of spaces but also in access
to srs' ctr
now if you park underground plaza, have to walk around; v
congested, no question
lost 100 spaces in front lawn; provided another 50 on Wetmore
land but still quite a walk
we've provided a shuttle service, slow at first but now
picking up
find this part v interesting b/c might even provide a longer term
parking soln
pkg study was at peak load, not even malls look at parking a
Christmastime
looking at percentages on site, haven't seen this %age before,
we're not dealing with peak loads even though our parking study
provides those numbers
looking at how underground parking comes on stream
we're building to LEED standard we don't want to cover that whole
space with parking
MS: may I ask when we get our third qtr review, comment on LEED
parking and what wd be involved in delaying front lawn until we
find
KP: scheduled three weeks from tonight
CAO: had committed to that both short and long term
9:19
(17) S.E. Dowey, Municipal Clerk - City
of North Vancouver, September 20, 2007, regarding Federal Revenue
Sharing with Municipalities - One-Sixth of the GST Revenue
MS: notice of motion? reduce GST to 5%; returned to Ms
only issue all agree with is that consumption taxes ...... makes
no sense to reduce
get and support colleagues in other Ms; makes a lot of
sense
CAO: at UBCM, in support
Mayor: good to write to NV and say we support them
9:20
15. REPORTS FROM MAYOR/COUNCILLORS
Mayor: on UBCM conference, took most of last week
Homer-Dixon, the up side of down; our behaviour
opening that creek up; manage water; work of foreshore
group
helping larger ways, allowing it to protect beach and protecting
upland infrastructure
we may be in leading edge; wonderful to have a cmnty looking
ahead supported by volunteers
sev mtgs with ministers; will follow up; climates have
changed
JF: in representing this, LMTAC
had a mtg and they have agreed to repay some of the funding that
they have removed from some
so received chq for $40K assist in operating costs for rest of
year
remarks wrt new relationships; need for a M level of cooperation
and consultation wrt proposals, and
so wd be in touch, to tap in some experience
Mayor: hopeful
JF: v hopeful; first time in terms of treaties...
transition
Mayor: thank you for the five years you've served on the
LMTAC
9:31
16. PUBLIC QUESTIONS/COMMENTS
Carolanne Reynolds: Thank you. Carolanne Reynolds, Editor
of West Van Matters; also on Streamkeepers [Board]; you didn't report
on it but thank you very much, Madam Mayor, for attending the Rivers
Day for WV Streamkeepers on Saturday.
What I do want to talk about though--
You may recall in May or so I came, very distressed, that in
spite of your efforts -- and I know you tried v hard to, Mayor
Goldsmith-Jones to save the heritage cottage on Evelyn Drive -- and at
that time I pleaded, with that experience in front of us, that
building was lost but there wd be a process in place so that if any
other heritage resource shd be threatened and endangered or at risk,
there wd be a process so that ppl wd find out about it and have an
opportunity to do something.
So in the past few days, I was absolutely devastated and
disappointed to find that the Hugo Ray log cabin had been demolished
in the last two weeks (and he was a reeve of West Vancouver!) by the
Hugo Ray Park and I found out that some ppl knew about it in March.
It was not, I understand, conveyed to Ccl, so you didn't know about
it. I'm on some heritage cmtes, I didn't know about
it. So in March it was known by a few ppl, I don't want to
name them, but it did not (it includes staff) but it did not come to
your attention or some heritage groups' attention, and I am absolutely
pleading with you now, we cd hv done something had we known in
March
finding out two weeks after it's been demolished is not really a
help, but in my opinion this is Strike Two. And I really will
plead with you. Please put in place a process.
I know we don't have the legislation; I know we haven't got
all of those things yet, but without them we can still try so I am
pleading with you pls put a process so that if there's something
someone deems a heritage that we find out about it so that we can
try
wd you please make that commitment?
this is the second time in a few months
Mayor: Yes, and obviously it's a priority of this Ccl to get the
heritage registry in place, wch we've never had before
CR: right
Mayor: I'm not sure of the process of feeding through from
Stephen Mikicich, our senior planner in charge of heritage and Cclr
Vaughan is the Ccl liaison to the Heritage Implementation Cmte, but
we're having a mtg this week how to identify what's out there before
we have something as formal as the Registry
CR: yes, it has to be done before the registry wch is... we've
got consultants; we've just got the money -- btw we just found out
today we have the money as of today [but] we shd be able to do
something in the meantime
Mayor: Mr Nicholls to comment as well
SJN: just so that Ccl is aware. This house was drawn to our
attention, it was drawn to our attention by staff, and it was a log
cabin up by the Hugo Ray Park
we looked at the possibility of moving it onto Hugo Ray Park; and
we actually had log home experts go out and assess the home
{log home experts??? what about those familiar with
heritage values?
Anyway, it doesn't take a heritage 'expert' to realize that
the home of a former reeve of West Vancouver living in home some
considered about the oldest on the North Shore next to a park named
after him sort of has some significance, hm???
No one doubted it was in bad physical shape -- heritage
is meaning, not sturdy carpentry.}
it was not on a heritage list, it was in an extremely poor,
rotted condition, and it cd not be [moved?] the logs were so badly
deteriorated on it; and so, based on that we decided not to pursue it,
but this is a home that was actually looked at in detail in order to
see whether or not it cd be saved, so I wdn't say that it was ignored,
in fact it was brought to our attention notwithstanding it wasn't on
any heritage list
{our? our? attention of staff, NOT to attention of Ccl or
all the heritage/historical groups! -- that's the process that's
needed!!!}
CR: unless Cclr Vaughan wants to speak, I have more to say to
that
VV: no, I'm happy to listen to Ms Reynolds
CR: that's kind of you
[slowly] it doesn't really matter
whether it is architecturally famous or
sound
that is not the question
when you pay attention to heritage, it doesn't matter whether it
was on its last legs! I mean there are lots of ruins all over
Asia, Europe, or wherever -- that isn't the point!
Heritage has several categories, it is cultural and historical,
it cd even hv bn part of it, with a plaque
or whatever
the point I'm making is that it's not to be decided without
coming to Ccl
Ccl didn't get the opportunity to have an opinion; neither did
the heritage groups, several of wch I'm a mbr of
Mayor: yes
CR: I'm not saying we cd do something, but we shd be given
the opportunity to offer suggestions or whatever; that's what I'm
pleading for
Wd you please put in process that anything that even might be
heritage, whether cultural, social, the whole [range], the five
categories, not just a building structure
so I am pleading with you and I know you are interested in this
as well, as I'm sure Cclr Vaughan is; I know Cclr Day and Soprovich
who previously were [heritage liaisons] wd hv bn interested as well to
try something
that's all we want -- is to try; to be notified and
try
Mayor: thank you; we will follow up and that and by virtue of
the fact we have a Heritage WG, I think it shows you all of Ccl's
commitment to heritage
CR: Yes, but I'm on it and we weren't told!
Mayor: yes, I know; we'll try to close that loop as soon as we
can
CR: I look forward to that; thank you very much
Mayor: thank you.
[Well, they told me that in May. I do hope a process is
actually put in place this time.}
17. ADJOURNMENT
=== LIMERICK FOR BARD === w=
ritten
2007 Sept 24 just after Bard's 2007 close.....
There once was an actor named Gaze
whose acting left us all in a daze
he started
the Bard
in the park's
backyard
now
Gaze can amaze with his plays
=== THE MAN FROM THE GOVT ===
A cocky Department of Agriculture representative
stopped at a farm and talked with an old farmer. He told
the farmer, "I need to inspect your farm."
The old farmer said, "OK, but don't go in
that field right over yonder."
The Agriculture representative said,
"Mister, I have the authority of the Government with me.
See this card? The card means I am allowed to go
WHEREVER I WISH on any agricultural land. No questions asked or
answered. Have I made myself clear? Do you
understand?!"
The farmer nodded politely and went about his
farm work.
Later, the farmer heard loud screams and saw the
Agriculture rep running for the fence and close behind was the
farmer's huge-horned prize bull. The bull was gaining on the
Agriculture Rep with every step.
The rep was clearly terrified, so farmer
immediately threw down his tools, ran to the fence and shouted
out.....
"Your card! Show him your
card!"
=== THE VIEW FROM DOWN UNDER ====
font>
The Aussie, the Kiwi, and the South African
An Australian, a Kiwi, and South African are in a
bar one night having a beer.
All of a sudden the South African downs his beer,
throws his glass in the air, pulls out a gun and shoots the glass to
pieces. "In Seth Efrika our glasses are so cheap that we don't
need to drink from the same one twice," he says.
The Kiwi, obviously impressed by this, downs his
beer, throws his glass into the air, pulls out his gun and shoots the
glass to pieces. "Wull mate, in Noo Zulland we have so much sand
to make the glasses that we don't need to drink out the same glass
either," he says.
The Australian, cool as a Koala of course, picks
up his beer and downs it, throws his glass in the air, pulls out his
gun and shoots the South African and the Kiwi. He turns to the
astonished barman and says, "In Strailya mate, we have so many
bloody South Africans and Kiwis that we don't need to drink with the
same ones twice."
=== QUOTATIONS ===
Robert Graves (1895 - 1985): There's no money in poetry, but then
there's no poetry in money, either.
Carl Jung (1875 - 1961): The true leader is always led.
The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him
absolutely no good.
--
Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784)
And G's favourite for this week:
Lucius Annaeus Seneca (ca 4BC - AD 65): I don't consider myself
bald, I'm just taller than my hair.