Ccl NOTES Oct 1
Calendar to Oct 18th

by Carolanne Reynolds, Editor

Next ccl mtg October 15th!
=  Vive le Canada (Thanksgiving); ANIMALWATCH; UPDATES (Police Bd/Dept); WEBWATCH (Block Watch); INFObits (Court rules on Open Mtgs); THEATREWATCH; Calendar to Oct 18th
-  DVPs 480 Eastcot and 5771 Cranley;
-  Prov Electoral Area Boundary Readjustments (two, four, or eight more MLAs or none?);
-  Cmnty Engagement Policy (discussion re difference, apptmts, cost, and WG balance; openness and inclusion of public,  -- let's hope the word gets out!);
Tax Exemption Review; to fee or not to fee for fields? (Budget 2007 revisited); Animal Control (dogs);
-  Correspondence: discussion re parking at the Srs' Ctr; GST M rebate?; if staff knew in March the log cabin of Hugo Ray (former reeve) was endangered, why no process to alert Ccl or the cmnty??? especially when asked for one b/c Ev Dr cottage lost and so it was demolished a couple of weeks ago to my horror...
=  Limerick for Bard; Bureaucrats; The View from Down Under; Quotations
*** VIVE LE CANADA  --  History of Thanksgiving in Canada
The history of Thanksgiving in Canada goes back to an English explorer, Martin Frobisher, who had been futilely attempting to find a northern passage to the Orient. He did, however, establish a settlement in Canada. In the year 1578, Frobisher held a formal ceremony in what is now the province of Newfoundland and Labrador, to give thanks for surviving the long journey. This event is widely considered to be the first Canadian Thanksgiving, and the first official Thanksgiving to occur in North America. More settlers arrived and continued the ceremonial tradition initiated by Frobisher, who was eventually knighted and had an inlet of the Atlantic Ocean in northern Canada named after him - Frobisher Bay.
It should be noted that the 1578 ceremony was not the first Thanksgiving as defined by Native American tradition. Long before the time of Martin Frobisher, it was traditional in many Native American cultures to offer an official giving of thanks during autumnal gatherings. In Haudenasonee culture, Thanksgiving is a prayer recited to honor "the three sisters" (i.e., beans, corn and squash) during the fall harvest.
> The London Zoo is celebrating its 180th anniversary; just released some photos on its history for fundraising:
> DWV has started a forum for those with views on dogs and set up an information link:
Find out more at westvancouver.ca/dogs
>>> Congratulations to aboriginal lawyer and judge, Stephen Point, our new Lieutenant-Governor
>>>  Sorry to learn of the passing of Charles Campbell, but 93 is a good long time.  Remember hearing his impassioned pleas about Canadian immigration (for an improved, fairer, more positive policy).  That mantle has been passed to Martin Collacott.
>>> POLICE BOARD WATCHER'S (COMPLETE) LETTER TO NSNEWS (printed Sept 30) re speeding:
     It is unfortunate that Mr. Lautens's views Cypress Park school zone speeding tickets as undeserved. I was nailed (near WVSS) -- I was in the wrong and the penalty has had the desired effect. I commended the officer at the time for his work to make our streets safer.
     More to the point, however, I write to correct Mr. Lautens's incorrect inference that the WV Police use traffic fines as a revenue source and, more nefariously, that that influences the Department's choices in deploying its resources. Traffic fines are remitted to the Province, aggregated, and then returned to municipalities in proportion to their size, not the fines collected.
     West Vancouver's share of the traffic fine pie in 2006 was about 1.5%. In other words, West Van will receive less than $3 from my speeding ticket. Therefore to suggest that the policing in West Vancouver is motivated in any fashion by traffic fine revenue is simply neither believable nor true.
     Indeed, former WV Police Board member Russ Fraser was adamant that no aspect of policing should be managed as a profit centre and, as a regular (and frequently lone) observer at WV Police
Board meetings, I have heard nothing to suggest the current board differs in this view.
     If Mr. Lautens feels that speeding patrols ought to focus on other areas of the District, he is to be encouraged to contact the Police with his suggestions. I know they are very receptive to such information and will deploy the speed watch volunteers and/or officers based, in part, on this valuable information from residents.
>>>  WVPD:  from the Sept 16th Chief Constable's report on the 2008 - 2010 strategic plan:
The WVPD will provide policing that fosters a safe, accessible, and comfortable cmnty for those who live, work, and visit.  This pledge will be guided by the following principles:
The four strategic priorities that will govern the annual work plans are:
  •  reduce crime and fear of crime
  •  engage stakeholders
  •  develop resources
  •  manage accountability
=== WEBWATCH --= New Block Watch Website
The Block Watch Society has a new website, also where you can view their newsletter online.  The site also features the Top Ten Crime Prevention Tips.  The site also features more information on:
Home security, Automobile safety, Identity theft; Graffiti and vandalism.  There are also contacts for the province of BC and each city that is on the membership list.  For more information, go to www.blockwatch.com and Source:http://www.blockwatch.com/index.aspx
===  INFObits
>>>  Sputnik went up Oct 4th 1957 -- 50 years ago!  After that the race was on.  Wasn't the joke that the Russian Sputnik met the American one and they said "Guten Morgen" to each other, since both had grabbed German scientists after the war.  Reminds me that some years ago the story was that a UN cmte sat down to talk, looked around, and said, "Well, since we're all here, might as well speak Hungarian."
>>>  More on the RMGC
Royal Montreal is the oldest golf club in North America, having been founded in 1873. In that year, a small group of eight gentlemen sat in a dockside office and formed the Montreal Golf Club. Eleven years later, in 1884, permission was granted by Queen Victoria to use the "Royal" prefix.
It was too unusual not to try.  Raincity Grill has a tomato tasting menu.  All five course with types of heritage and rare tomatoes -- reminded me of Iron Chef.  It probably will be over this week but was an interesting experience and with matching wines (also part of the 100-mile menu).
>>>  A well-known poet: September 30 marked the 800th anniversary of the birth of Jalal ad-Din Muhammad Rumi (Persian poet b. 1207)
-- Reprinted with (thanks and) permission of Lidstone Young Anderson from their September 2007
newsletter, distributed at the UBCM convention.
Top court considers open meeting rules
The Supreme Court of Canada's recent decision in London (City) v. RSJ Holdings Inc. has once again highlighted the importance for local governments of strictly complying with the clear statutory requirements for open meetings.
In RSJ Holdings, the City of London, Ontario, had passed an interim control bylaw that created a one-year freeze on all development in a specific corridor after holding two closed meetings and an eight-minute open meeting.  At the eight-minute open meeting, the municipal council introduced, gave three readings to, and passed 32 bylaws, including the interim control bylaw, without public debate or discussion. 
A company affected by the interim control bylaw applied for an order to quash it on the grounds that the City had violated its statutory obligation to hold meetings in public under the Ontario Municipal Act.  Section 89(1) of the Community Charter imposes the same general requirement on local governments in B.C. 
The Ontario Superior Court of Justice dismissed the company's application, but the Ontario Court of Appeal set aside the lower Court's decision and quashed the bylaw.  In response, London appealed the Court of Appeal's judgement to the Supreme Court of Canada based on the argument that its closed meetings fell within an exception in the Ontario Municipal Act that permits closed meetings if they are allowed under another statute.  Section 90(1)(m) of the Community Charter provides the same exception here in B.C.  The City argued that a section of the Ontario Planning Act allowed an interim control bylaw to be passed without prior notice and without holding a public hearing, and this means that a public meeting was not required.   
The Supreme Court of Canada dismissed the City's appeal and found that the Planning Act provisions that permitted the City to waive notice and a public hearing prior to passing an interim control bylaw in no way affected the statutory requirement to hold open meetings to adopt and debate bylaws under the Municipal Act.  The Court regarded the City's duty to give advance notice and to hold a public meeting as entirely distinct from its obligation to hold its meetings in public.  In short, the discussions on the interim control bylaw still had to be conducted in an open public session.  The eight-minute open meeting at which the impugned bylaw was passed did not cure the defect.   
The Court also provided some important commentary on the significance of the democratic nature of local governments, and stated that courts defer to local governments, in part, because they are democratic:
The democratic legitimacy of municipal decisions does not spring solely from periodic elections, but also from a decision-making process that is transparent, accessible to the public, and mandated by law.  When a municipal government improperly acts with secrecy, this undermines the democratic legitimacy of its decision, and such decisions, even when intra vires, are less worthy of deference.
This case is a clear reminder to local governments of the significance of the open meeting rules and the basic distinction between the public's right to notice and participation and the public's right to observe municipal government in public.
Parvinder Sahota
=== THEATREWATCH -- United Player= s at Jericho Arts Ctr
Lady Windermere's Fan by Oscar Wilde was written in 1892 but the digs at love and married life are timeless.  That's the play that talks about lying in the ditch -- yes, but looking at the stars.  It was sold out Sept 29 and closed on the 30th.

===  CALENDAR to Oct 18th  === [M Hall unless otherwise noted; confirm b/c sometimes changes]
REMEMBER the Farmers' Markets:
          Saturdays: Dundarave 10am - 4pm; Sundays: Ambleside (14th/Bellevue) 11am - 3pm
* Int'l Walk to School Week is Oct 1-5; TransLink supports it with free transit rides for students.            
== Wednesday Oct 3rd    ~ 10am ~ CEC
                ~ 6pm ~ Cmnty Ctr Governance WG at Srs' Ctr
== Thursday Oct 4th  ~ 4:30pm ~ Design Review Cmte (Moved from Sept 27)
== Oct 7th - 13th -- FIRE PREVENTION WEEK -- Practise an escape plan!
This year, Fire Prevention Week focuses on the importance of both having an escape plan AND practising it. Fire can grow and spread so quickly, you could have as little as two minutes to escape
safely. When every second counts, advance planning is essential.
== Thursday Oct 11 ~ 5:30pm ~ Rodgers Crk WG
== Saturday Oct 13th ~ 9am - 1pm ~ Gleneagles Cmnty Ctr Garage Sale
        * NEIGHBOURHOODS FAIR * Park Royal North
        == Sat Oct 13th (10am - 5pm) & Sun Oct 14th (noon to 5pm)
== Sunday Oct 14th-- 1 - 3pm -- OPEN HOUSE at the Ambleside Fire Station
Take the whole family and watch demonstrations of fire extinguishers, the ladder truck, a rescue from the hose tower and auto extrication tools. Take a turn spraying water, enjoy refreshments, enter our draw, and visit with the fire fighters.
== Monday Oct 15th    
~ Homelessness in a Growth Economy: Canada's 21st Century Paradox, a lecture with Gordon Laird, October 15, SFU Surrey and SFU Harbour Centre.  Details: http://www.sfu.ca/city/fpl6popup.htm
* October 15 to 22 is Homelessness Week *
~ North Shore Safe House -- thanks to a significant donation provided by one WV family, it will re-open Nov 1st.  Donations for youth who have just 'transitioned' to the Safe House can be dropped off at the M Hall, the Library, the Amb Youth Ctr, the Arena, the FBG, Gleneagles Cmnty Ctr, or the Srs' Ctr.  New items needed: toothbrushes, toothpaste, deodorant, trial-sized shampoo/rinse, and lip balm.
== Wednesday Oct 17th
~ 7:30am ~ Chamber of Commerce Breakfast at the Hollyburn Country Club, 950 Crosscreek
SPEAKER:   Ann Goodhart, West Vancouver Library
Ms. Goodhart, Director of Library Services, will speak about strategic library business initiatives.  Come to the Chamber's networking breakfast to hear how the leading-edge technology and resources coming soon to the library will enhance your business bottom line.
Cost: $25 for members; $35 for non-members; RSVP admin@westvanchamber.com or call 926 6614
~ all at 7pm            ~  Cmnty Ctr Governance WG at Lawn Bowling Club
                ~  Board of Variance
                ~  Library Board at the Library
== Thursday Oct 18th
~ 1:30 - 4:30pm ~ Heritage WG
~ 6 - 8pm:      ~ Nbrhd Info Mtg re proposed townhouse (445 - 13th) at location, Pat's Restaurant
        ~ N.S. Family Court & Youth Justice Cmte at CNV M Hall
~ 6:30pm ~ Film at the Library: Mondovino
Free event, no registration required.  This documentary on the impact of globalization on  the world's different wine regions weaves together the family sagas of billionaire Napa Valley power brokers, the rivalry of two Florentine dynasties, and the efforts of three generations of a Burgundian family fighting to preserve their few acres of land.

+ DEFINING MOMENTS: INTERRUPTED LIFE -- Oct 2 - 14; George Dart, mixed media assemblage
        Opening Night 6 - 8pm Oct 2nd; Artist in attendance 2 - 3pm Oct 6th
+ "Walk...Don't Walk" --  Oct 16 - Nov 4; Janis Blyth, Acrylic Paintings; Sharon Christian: Mixed Media Paintings and Sculptures.
        Opening Night: 6 - 8pm Oct 16; Artists in Attendance:  2 - 3pm Oct 20

Wednesday 10th  --  Fire Station Stories (3Y-5Y) -- 1:30-2:15pm
Learn about fire prevention and safety through puppetry and stories presented by Marcia from our own West Vancouver Fire Department. Registration begins Mon., September 24.
Thursday 11th (and 18th) -- Gleneagles Storytime (all ages) -- 10:30am at the Gleneagles Community Centre.
Friday 12th --  Out in Schools Film Screening  -- 5 - 7pm
Watch films about topics in today's high schools - homophobia, intolerance towards youth being 'different' and bullying. There will be a talk-back session after the viewing. Refreshments provided by the Teen Advisory Group (T.A.G.)
Tuesday 16th -- Reading James Joyce's Ulysses -- 10:30am - 12:30pm. Drop in - no registration required.  Please bring your own copy of the novel.
Wednesday 17th -- Family Storytime -- 1:30pm -- A half hour of stories, songs and puppets for all ages.
+++  WV MUSEUM +++  The Black Slip -- The Paintings of Jane Billaux (to Oct 27)
+++  WV ARTS COUNCIL +++ visit www.silkpurse.ca for events (most ticketed)
--->  For events at KMC, see www.kaymeekcentre.com

=== WV Council NOTES Oct 1 ===
7:03 adding Item 7, F&A recommendations; item 14 Correspondence re user fees
SSch: you will see a late email for Correspondence beside you
2.    MINUTES of Sept 17 ADOPTED
[7:04]  Mayor: will give an update b/c of interest on dogs and dogwalking
did step up enforcement this summer in response to long-standing request
wish we had taken an approach [of] warning; b/c for years and years not enforced
know and added right away added a dog-on-leash park in HBay
asking Cmnty to work with us; drafting an amendment re dangerous dogs, esp pit bulls
higher fees for not picking up after dog
First Nations land will be taken back and shd plan ahead
b/c on Sounds Like Canada wrt Lee Fortune in HBay; I phoned her, from our point of view warning no fee; she says she understands that; acted as a pioneer; want to make it clear no expectation that she is to pay a fine
wd be my recommendation to strike a WG on this, tremendous interest, and that process seems to be working well
big issue but it's that little things that count in ppl's lives, and requires our attention as soon as possible.
3.         Development Variance Permit Application No. 07?025 (480 Eastcot Road)
At the September 10 Ccl Mtg, Ccl received the report dated August 21 from the Community Planner.
CALL FOR PUBLIC INPUT -- No one -- All submissions received
JC moved DVP which would allow for an existing garage located within the required Front Yard be approved
Sop: go back in history to acknowledge a 20ft setback was pre 1947 and then go to 30ft
why go back rather than rule today 30ft rule of thumb that we look at rule today
we've looked at 1912, 1921, now 1947 -- what about law of today?
how many anomalies? is the bylaw worthwhile?
SJN: thousands of anomalies in the District
in this case we do not have a record of the original bldg or of garages within 30ft and asked them; nbrs cannot remember garage not being there
wd require variance; it's almost a legal non-conforming use and we recommended requesting a variance and solicitors said that wd protect them; and the nbrs approve
Sop: architect to re-do house and is garage part of that? almost a new house or just doing a few things?
SJN: believe just a few things
Owner: Robert Forst (sp?), the idea was that if variances granted we'd proceed with the plans we had; if not stuck with trying to update the property that now exists
SJN: what's in your bldg permit application?
RF: an addition, not quite sure if you have all the info in front of you
Sop: don't want to belabour this but we don't have plans in front of us to see what owner wants to do
Mayor: at back of agenda
Sop: but it's just a picture and don't know what's new
if just an alteration, consideration for hardship?
SJN: believe drawings in package and believe conforming addition to an existing house
the only non-conforming part is garage and that's what's before you
JC: when I first saw this info, I thought here we go again, tear down and monster house
as I read this, 2305sf and 2441sf so 135sf addition, not much, so I'm supporting this

{er, excuse me, it's not about the addition it's about the garage.  Besides, as you see further down, SJN gives much different, and higher, figures.}

VV: don't like messing around with ordinary ppl trying to get on as best they can
but a bit alarmed, with Mr Nicholls saying thousands of non-conforming houses
SJN: I may have been exaggerating, but believe it wd be hundreds
VV: maybe have a bylaw streamlining this; isn't much of a problem here, just doesn't conform with standards; ppl coming in front of us, cd we not streamline so
SJN: if we had record of garage, wd not come
CAO: ....we are coming forward with a report
VV: wd like to see it almost like Correspondence, list
wd hv waved it through without his having to provide all this; just facilitate things as minor as this
Mayor: Ccl has already delegated minor things; want to thank you for consulting with your nbrs and getting their agreement
SJN: to [clarify], believe that the existing bldg is 2793sf, the proposed bldg is 3658sf, and the addition is 1100sf upper floor wch is a totally conforming upper floor
all of the bldg permit is conforming, question is whether they'd have to demolish existing garage
{I'll leave readers to work out the various numbers.........}
4.         Development Variance Permit Application No. 07?029 (5771 Cranley Drive) 
At the September 10 Council Meeting, Council received the report dated August 28 from the Community Planner
CALL FOR PUBLIC INPUT -- No one -- submissions received
RD moved: the DVP which would provide for a small (319 square feet) one storey addition with variances to the required Combined Side Yard and Rear Yard be approved.
Sop: this is minor compared with the previous one; I looked at the property
PASSED  7:19
5.         Provincial Electoral Area Boundary Readjustments Proposed by the BC Electoral Area Boundary Commission in their Report of August 15, 2007
RECOMMENDED:THAT the report dated September 20 from the Director of Administrative Services be received for the information of Council.
Sop: always adjustment factor; look at shift of popn
WV will see Sq Nation Lands and Park Royal excluded from old WV-Capilano
what obligations do we have wrt the Sq? that
what provincial responsibility {that's exactly what he said but I don't quite understand that part, however do get the gist of his question as DStu does} that we have to any agreements with the Squamish, that doesn't alter b/c the electoral line alters?
CAO: correct
Sop: know done ev two or three years
VV: v interested to hear Gordon Campbell's speech last week; surprised he wants more positions
not usually for increasing the bureaucracy
MS: happy to lead off the discussion; report gives us option to oppose by Nov 30
two reasons: reduces our representation from 2/79 to 2/83, so our representation is going down
second: there is no reason to increase the number of MLAs
in priv sector downsizing, mergers, and takeovers, ppl learning to do more with less, and yet in govt exact reverse applies
Canada's overgoverned; we've got 301 MPs, US has 100 Senators
and we've got senators doing nothing; about as useful as a hockey player with a broken leg
we shd strenuously object to this increase in seats; start start showing some leadership
let's stand up, in this cmnty say committed to reducing the unnecessary costs of govt.
MPs, MLAs; we see the GVRD increase in stipend 20% to attend mtgs even though paid by their Ms
MPs vote themselves a big increase, MLAs have; embarrassed this Ccl actually considering it
time somebody stands up and says 'enough!'
write letter to Commission and say no on two grounds: no 1 reducing WV's representation and opposed to unnecessary increase in cost
JF: we're being asked simply to receive this for information, not approve
MS: if you read the report, Cclr F, the options are to receive or to oppose, to make representation to commission; so I'm saying we shd made a representation to the Commission
Mayor: arguing against
MS: don't mind receiving the report but will make second motion for representation
JF: thank you; so will be a second motion
Mayor: believe Premier injected himself -- four or eight?
RB: Premier has made an announcement and suspended the hearings
still believe ample time for submissions; target date for Feb in 2008
Mayor: how many MLAs recommended by Boundary Commission?
RB: two add'l
Mayor: important that the Commission recommended increase by two and Premier's recommendation subsequently is for eight b/c north
Citizens most affected by WV residents 22nd to 29th affected, Ralph Sultan's riding; Sea to Sky doesn't begin until 29th
Mayor: cd be that Ccl want to support Boundary Commission and not Premier's
RD: from reading this wdn't know two, four, or eight extra b/c this report just dealing with North Shore, these four ridings; go ahead and receive that and later on, deal with that
unfair to say our MPs, MLAs, and M Cclrs don't do anything
I've seen Ralph Sultan in action, and works constantly, comes to mtgs, busy on weekends, never seems to stop; we have a problem he deals with it and quickly; he's there; works v hard; they don't get rich
Paid little; in terms of money they got a raise and deserve it
ppl don't realize how expensive it is going over to Victoria all the time, have to fly, ferries too slow; have to have an apt over there; a lot comes out of their own pocket; they work hard and earn their money;  not saying every single one does, but some do;  we've had good ppl in public office; wrong always to denigrate our public servants, say they're useless -- how are we going to get ppl to run for office?
This extends from M Ccl level to parliamentary level in Ottawa
think MPs maybe sometimes too well-paid but not MLAs; want to make that correction then we can go ahead and vote on this motion
VV: I agree how hardworking and dedicated our two MLAs are
if he wants to increase our influence, put one of them in the cabinet
MS: move this Ccl write to the Electoral Boundary Commission opposing any add'l mbrs
JC: second
JF: I'd like more time, see where proposed, before making up my mind
RD: once we've looked at it; hold off now; shd be supporting two add'l; lot of work and reasonable conclusion; eight seems like gerrymandering and that's what we want to oppose
Electoral Comm has done a good job; wd prefer to support them
BC is growing in popn, we do need some add'l representation
although American Senate 100, it's by region, Congress has almost 600; quite large compared with our Parliament
CAO: the premier's announcement was made after this report was written
suggest defer, so cd do more research and report back to Ccl
[JF moved deferral]
6.         Community Engagement Policy for approval
Carolanne Reynolds: tyvm
This wd be more of a victory if it weren't partly regaining lost territory.
Nevertheless I wd prefer to view it as another step on the journey toward openness.
About six years ago, a citizen's right to speak at cmte mtgs was suddenly curtailed and it's taken until this year to restore that right.
For the record, may I hasten to say that when the right was removed, Cclrs Day and Soprovich were opposed to the removal wanting it retained, but were outvoted.  Cclrs Clark and Ferguson changed mtg procedures so that a citizen was only allowed to speak at the very end of the mtg, and then only wrt 'process and disposition', two aspects that can be answered by staff and need not take up volunteer mbrs' time.
More than ten cmnty groups objected and the then-president of the British Properties Assn also spoke up saying cmtes shd have as much information as possible before making a decision.
Some years ago in conversation with Cclr Clark he said he had not realized we had wanted speakers to be thus limited.
I advocated that residents be able to speak only at the end of an item, ie not take part in debate, and only to offer something relevant to the topic.  At the mtg's close, pertinent facts wd be too late to be of use.  Everyone agreed lobbying was to be done at Ccl, not during cmte mtgs.
So tonight you have guidelines that I hope will ensure all open, instead of closed, meetings and will encourage citizens to become involved in their cmnty.  I must also express appreciation to the Mayor for her efforts toward openness.
This policy is a milestone on the way forward.
There are several points perhaps in need of clarification and your attention.
Presumably we want to welcome residents to be involved so we shd make it easy for them to attend mtgs and offer to serve since now Working Groups, for example, can be formed at any time.
Someone asked me about applying and I discovered there is no longer an application form on the website, so my first request is that it be put on the website.
Secondly, apparently there are subcmte mtgs that are open to the public and others that are not, so it wd be appreciated if Ccl wd make clear that subcmtes, just as cmtes and Working Groups, are open.   This was done well and successfully by the Fiscal Task Force.
Mtgs are on the Cmnty Calendar but also helpful wd be having residents on an email notice list -- this is already done by the Communications Mgr for press releases, and at the last Finance & Audit Cmte mtg, the CAO offered arrangements [to be notified by email] for their mtgs and subcmte mtgs.

It is heartening to see such sincere efforts on Ccl's part moving ahead with these measures.
It has come to my attention however that some on the groups are not familiar with the positive steps Ccl has been taking.

A few months ago in spite of the guidelines, a staff mbr admonished a citizen that a question cd only be wrt process and disposition, and recently some Chairs have said that they were not aware citizens were allowed to offer something relevant at the end of an item just before the next.
May I point out however that all I'd asked for is something pertinent but in a recent mtg the Mayor went further and said anything -- so I'll leave that distinction up to Council, but the point is that clarification ought to be sent out to all the cmtes/groups to avoid uncertainty.

Again, thank you very much for the progressive path underway now and we are grateful for the Mayor's leadership in this area.
Mayor: tyvm
[JF moved approval; seconded by Sop]
VV: read cmte report attached to this motion; don't find it sufficiently complete to be adopted as possible; or in camera explained thought wd hv been in terms of Cmnty Charter
keep standing cmtes, instead of select cmtes we have WGs
Minor changes/differences only been able to discover two: instead of minutes, notes are taken and outline of mtg content rather than an agenda; whereas a vote, WGs not allowed a vote but consensus by other means; none of these matters addressed in this doc
ppl are left wondering what journey from Cmnty Charter description of Standing cmtes and Select cmtes to the new system, Working Groups
technical and minor; and no explanation of any cost-savings
don't believe this doc in sufficient detail or depth; doesn't describe how improved matters
nothing about reassurance wrt conflict of interest, special interests; think that's important
we've had ppl, reps of cmnty groups, really upset wrt Amb WG, really quite upset with composition
they basically claimed it contained basically 70% of ppl from the devt cmnty and only one representative citizen
CEC rather than three cclrs as other Standing Cmtes described in Cmnty Charter, has mayor plus two cclrs choosing, and wonder if wisest way to go; we're not just choosing for what we do, regardless of who is in what

{Some background.  Yes the CEC selects mbrs of the WGs.  I'm a mbr of the CEC and, not wanting to be in the position of judging fellow residents, recommended that the three mbrs of Ccl on the CEC be the ones to choose, not the citizen mbrs.  This was done.  What I assumed Ccl wd do, is that those selected wd be forwarded to Ccl as a whole for confirmation, as was done previously with the adv cmtes wch also had three Ccl mbrs doing the selecting for Ccl's approval.  This is the first indication I've had that the three do it independently from the rest of Ccl -- but I leave it up to Ccl to straighten this out.}

think wisdom of Cmnty Charter, three cclrs shall be on a standing cmte wiser than a mayor and two cclrs b/c we had one, a result, that frankly ppl didn't like; not that one person has done anything wrong, just wonder if structure wasn't to do with it
maybe be wiser to rethink that;  like the tone of this document; has a lot of feel-good things about it
not technical enough, doesn't go into Cmnty Charter and why we have deviated from it; wd like to see that added; nice as an introductory paper but hasn't finished the job yet, and I'm not ready to approve it in this condition
Mayor: what we're discussing is broad umbrella policy, from coming to a Ccl mtg to running for Ccl
certainly according to the Charter mayor part of ev cmte, that's discretionary
another policy wrt WG comments by Cclr V, more appropriately directed to the WG guidelines; it does describe conflict of interest
we as a cmte hosted a mtg with the WGs to comment on this -- represents 120 who've worked with this for over a year; this has their approval
CEC meeting this week; never has been a policy, meeting this week; if Ccl not ready to pass, can refer back
JF: in response to Cclr V's remarks that Amb WG was comprised of professionals and only one resident, and in fact that is not the case
three property owners, {mouth away from microphone but she might have said three} biz ppl, three residents from Amb area, the fact that the two ppl who didn't think that the area residents were well enough represented weren't on the WG, wd hv had much more to do with the fact that they didn't think enough
There were three residents and that's why they were there
unfortunate that this misperception continues to be played up

{ah, what's left unsaid is indicative.
You may have noticed JF in response to VV claims there are three residents but completely omits saying that there were 11 on the Amb WG.  Not only that, and add'l biz person (from Ch of Commerce) was put on by JF as Chair and didn't even go through the process of having the CEC appoint!  Only Dolly Cartwright of the three 'residents' (and one was a student) attended all Amb WG mtgs wch is why those who were observing thought there was only one.
Doesn't three out of 11 or so sort of indicate the 'balance'?
There's no doubt that the expertise and experience of the Amb biz ppl is essential to the Amb WG.  It wd also not be 'balanced' to have nine out of eleven being local residents -- risking NIMBY vs free upzoning (without cmnty benefit or review).}

CAO: the other document Ccl will be dealing with shortly, ccl procedure bylaw wch will show how our processes tie to the Cmnty Charter
RD: we've made a lot of progress in last two years; pleased with how WGs functioning
wd also like to agree with Cclr F about Amb WG; easy to say he or she is a devpr but doesn't
Karl Gustavson is an architect but he has a distinguished history of service in WV, Design Panel, etc; be careful in labelling ppl

{Again, perspective needed.  Yes, Karl G has a history of service but keep in mind he's an architect and his 'service', cmte mbrship, has been in the area of Planning and Design as RD says but these are areas in wch he makes his living.  A lot of motivation, no?
No doubt being involved in devt in WV is an advantage -- being in on the ground floor, so to speak as he is/was with the Amb WG.
Also, I shd mention that KG was the architect for Delany's in Dundarave, a building we all like and admire as tasteful and an asset to the village.
Something has just occurred to me in writing this.
Above VV pointed out one of the changes between the previous task forces and cmtes and the new WGs was 'consensus' rather than votes.  It just clicked.  Then, unless you're fortunate enough to attend a mtg, you won't know who voted in favour of higher density for example, and who didn't -- votes are neither taken nor recorded.  Very handy for denial.
As for notes instead of mtgs also, some staff thought they wd just put the notes up on the webpage, I urged that they be circulated first to the mbrs before going up in case they wanted to change or add anything.
Back to cost, as VV also referred to.  Initially they said it wd be cheaper but it became clear that cclrs were not going to be taking the notes so staff needed after all.
Readers of this newsletter will recall that several WGs started out with closed mtgs to my dismay but after exposed that was stopped.
Ya gotta be alert to cut them off at the pass!
My next question is how they cd ever have a closed mtg even if the item meets the legislation when they're simply appointed and neither swear or sign anything about confidentiality.
Ah, maybe the last bastion of secrecy is succumbing to sunlight.}
WG job was reaching balanced recommendations and avoiding extremes; they didn't touch the marina wch wd be disastrous; compliment the group and keep it in mind
Sop: I sit on three of these WGs and I've witnessed, incredible ability for citizens to be involved
evident to me WGs, a spinoff from this Cmnty Engagement activity, has proved to be successful
an example -- recent success of a forum; email saying in all the years never found one as successful; citizens, no consultant
we hv six, two in audience tonight, not Ccl; asked them to go out
these are intelligent, v bright indivs
do support Cclr V's maybe some tie in; for instance only mayor and two cclrs wd be on cmtes -- those are elected officials and they were the ones to select
go through and work it down; tie in other policy, Ccl procedure; guess can be at arm's length with this
yes, I like this but want more references
VV: first one I want to make from Cmnty Charter
didn't mean to imply if Mayor and two cclrs, didn't mean to imply Mayor was somehow taking more than charter describes
Charter does say mayor must appoint so it gives right to Mayor to appoint all; if she shares it, do we get a diff result?
if three cclrs wd probably hv bn different; not just us, it's policy and stays here long after we've gone; important to think of diff results from diff structures
the other point, I really do think there's an important point to be made: on one hand rep of cmnty and the other hand contain expertise, but when it comes to devt and redevt, in hands of those with conflict of interest -- if we upzone property, architects, ppl involved in that, work will have opportunities.  I have a real question about the standard.
The law is clear.  If remotest hint of a future conflict of interest the cclr goes out, can't discuss it at all, let alone vote
we take subject matter Ccl can't deal with it directly and then take it to a set of ppl where those rules don't apply, and we accept as experts ppl who do have an interest in the outcome, and these cmtes are supposed to influence our policy
I think there are some incongruities here. I think that particular subject of potential interests, special interests, vested interests, and conflict of interest

{Good point.  Mbrs of Ccl have to excuse themselves if possibility of conflict of interest and in the past couple of years the Mayor and Cclrs Smith and Soprovich have duly declared it and withdrawn from the Chamber and debate.
At this mtg it seems a WG mbr can just say he has a conflict of interest but then stay, debate, and be part of the consensus.}

in the ppl on the cmtes even though an indiv must declare a conflict of interest to the Chair of the WG (not nec a mbr of Ccl), with these matters not fully discussed with Ccl, feel shdn't simply accept
JF: to reiterate, the CEC is completely different from the policy that sets out the WGs
that is where all the info is contained, coming to Ccl, then Ccl to discuss and debate
unfortunate that Cclr V resigned from the CEC, had she stayed on she wd have a better understanding
Mayor: [vote; VV opposed] Motion carries, and pleased a couple of mbrs here tonight
7.         Tax Exemption Bylaw No. 4524, 2007 for three readings
RL: two reports
annual bylaw for 2008; tax exemptions quite restrictive, only three: srs' housing, nonprofit cmnty care, SD45, and land surrounding churches
notwithstanding how restrictive that restriction has been, it involves over $200K of taxation; been in place for many years
staff has brought forth no changes at this time
F&A Cmte came up with some comments and have come up with separate report of its own
they view them as financial grants to these orgs and feel shd be if not the same then similar to M grants policy
four recommendations: commencing 2009 taxation year the approach be handled by a cmte wch wd view these exemptions as financial grants
evaluated in terms of what these groups contribute to the cmnty in exchange for the permissive tax exemption, they wd make decisions accordingly
proposing staff start communicating with these groups, encourage them to describe to us as to what benefits they do provide to cmnty and they be put on notice there'll be a formal application process for 2009
JF: reading this I was thinking about benefits to cmnty, understand churches and land exempt b/c of their benefits, then noticed one of the churches has a school on its property, provincial grants; is St Anthony's taxfree or taxed as Collingwood and Mulgrave?
RL: complicated; how they've handled it has changed
only in last couple of years land was not exempt; wd have to look at it prop by prop to see what
JC: I move:
1  Ccl request a report from the Social Services Mgr, detailing what if anything organizations receiving permissive tax exemptions are doing to meet the need in the cmnty further than their primary function
2 that orgs receiving the permissive tax exemption for 2008 be asked to comment on social services and in particular daycare services
3 orgs receiving for 2008 be put on notice that the process is under review for 2009
4 approach taken be harmonized with Ccl grants process for 2009
Sop: as friendly amendment, No 5, this be passed on the Grants WG; we have been looking at this; aware of exemptions but not of major change
WG wd challenge this and want to see how impact
JC: no problem, wd think WG wd be involved anyway
MS: intent is not to take on churches and nonprofit groups
just in line with fiscal Task Force, grants justified
space crisis, pass on to these groups if spaces for daycare, boy scouts, then by all means come forward and offer up that space
RD: seems okay but force these organizations to provide a lot of reports, hurdles, and we already know providing cmnty services?  seems an elaborate process
if have add'l space we can find that out without writing reports
many don't have facilities, sit down, forget, too late to get report
why churches have to report? I'm opposed, think excessive
RL: not our intention to make the process onerous and we're not looking for a lot of work to do
not unusual for a M to review how doing these things
Sop: the social services WG will look at this; we're looking at grants in general; time and dollars
said a long time ago when Charter came in prov wd give us a basket of tools to deal with these things but not money
are we doing right thing? right model for grants? looking at this
bring to conclusion after public and WGs have had a chance to look at this
maybe an answer, but just to say 2009 suddenly do some chopping down the middle, can't accept that; so hope some exercise here
JC: no suggestion of chopping down the middle; Finance Cmte looking at ev aspect of finance and that's what they're doing; thought went around table and passed on to Ccl
Ccl overlooking $300K and no one said it shd change, just we/public shd know where we're not getting money/taxation; just good biz
MS: Mr Laing and Cclr Clark said it eloquently, no intent new bureaucracy here; if you have more than a quarter of a million dollars going out, shd have  short, concise logical process to evaluate what you're getting for that public money
RD: no objection referring to Social Services Cmte; understand what my colleagues are saying, Cclr Clark and Smith; not sure sound biz practices relate to srs' housing, churches.
...but equating srs' housing to churches, yes they have to manage their affairs, finances, what's going to be achieved?
know srs not and churches not going to be taxed, daycares aren't going to be taxes; I can guarantee it, 16 years on Ccl, can guarantee it, one or two will miss or forget and omigosh! then all sorts of problems.
we KNOW these groups shd be tax exempt, know what services are being provided; why are we doing this.  It is onerous and unnecessary.
Sop, wanting to speak: third turn?
Mayor: No such thing as a third turn. Cclr V hasn't had a first
VV: hope wording doesn't confuse anyone; not the fact that they're exempt, they have their exemption anyway, we just want a paper summarizing what they receive; one side of one sheet of paper; or a telephone interview
no objection to this data being requested from them; if not a condition to prior to exemption
hope we can do this and not cause any fear
CAO: the intent is not to implement it for the upcoming taxation year; intent just to gather information; it's discretionary, exemption, entirely up to Ccl
JF: ensure exemptions meet Ccl's values; not clear don't have good records
preschools have very good documentation as to hours, ages of chn, etc
can't believe churches don't have a record; don't think it's going to be onerous
MS: on a positive, wrap up in positive way
Sop: I'll wrap up, I'm after you
MS: okay, I'll finish
the Child Care WG has already been approached b/c a church has already come forth; didn't know space needed, we've got space
Sop: have to read between the lines
says org be "put on notice" exemption under review for 2009 -- sends up flags
what does that tell you?
approach will be harmonized with the Grants process, wch is the doling out of money
JC: exactly what you asked for
Mayor: excuse
Sop: I'm getting to my point; so on 4th one, all of this really to say what we're doing with monies and exemptions, need as we've witnessed of lack of space; coordinating is to say what's best focus;  can have staff work on this; grants in future, have to be thought out, part of WG's [task] all part of process
maybe coming at end of year with an interim report; air of consideration, v positive effects; esp looking at space
MS: question.
RD: I seldom talk twice let alone three times, so I'm really going to go for it this time
like what Cclr Smith says, if that the sole purpose; like intent but poorly written; shd be deferred and rewritten; be clear and not threatening
right with Cclr Smith; shd pursue all spaces we can for childcare and if space av, shd find it
Mayor: item 3, be put on notice wrong tone
laudable F&A cmte wants to ........  [review?] permissive, makes good sense
Ccl cd address these five separately
CAO: put on notice may be harsh, cd say under review
Mayor: don't support review; split motion
VOTE: item 1 Carried; Item 2 Carried; Item 3 fails; Item 4 carried; Item 5 carried
JC: no 3's been defeated, how those receiving tax exemption be aware if not be on notice or be advised?
Mayor: Ccl has supported 4, that will come out in the friendly conversations in Soc Services WG
JF: defeating No 3 makes intent not clear; why looking into these things if not for a review?
Mayor: cd go back over the debate....
MS: I didn't vote on no 3 b/c thought MMgr was going to reword it

{NB: might then mislead Mayor, b/c anyone who does not vote is deemed to be in favour.}

we are going to review but not threatening
Mayor: majority saw this as threatening; perhaps this puts on strong footing; obviously F&A comte may make further recommendations; ev is probably always under review.
JC: Tax Exemption bylaw three readings; CARRIED
8.         Fees and Charges Bylaw No. 4414, 2005, Amendment Bylaw No. 4527, 2007 for three readings
Colin Miller: VP of WV Soccer Club re Schedule 11 G and to seek it be deferred for a period of time
know Ccl has received some emails but some incorrect info has crept into
we have been talking; some think out of blue; we as Soccer Club have not received info from M as to what is to be covered by the user fees
met with Mr Pike early in the summer and he was generous with his time
what Soccer Bd is looking for, realize not an easy exercise; cost of mowing a field not easy to identify to the penny
we are interested in knowing what those costs are until and unless we have that figure can't tell if amt fair to soccer players
when last I was before Ccl, I'm not going to point fingers, but there hasn't been communication since my last appearance
learned that other groups have been surprised this has been moving through system
came to our notice when we received a bill for $31K, don't know when others received their bills
what I raised when last before Ccl was that Soccer sets its budget in January, in Feb pay on line, and all received by May; and it was in that time period it came up
as I understand it it was to be deferred while we had that opportunity to consult
the grass and rock dust field, user field we want to focus on
our club already pays $40K annually toward that artificial turf fields but we don't have that other $31K in the budget and it wd be v difficult to go back to players and charge $15 at this time
in fairness we're asking to be able to discuss with the M what the appropriate amt shd be and kick in next Sept season and then we can collect the money
we cd double the money next year but those aren't necessarily the players that used it this year -- some new and some left; most players leave at 18 to go on
the other difficulty and caused emails, we weren't given notice that this was coming before this mtg until the agenda was released

{Here's another project.  Agendas come out on Thursdays at 4:30pm for the Monday ccl mtg.  There's no way we can think that there isn't a tentative agenda staff have and then finalize later.  It does mean, however, IF COUNCIL DECIDES/SETS A POLICY, those tentative agendas can be on the website three weeks ahead, but only finalized then on Thursday as time dictates and research/memos are ready.  Ccl themselves only get the agenda on Wednesdays.  With a commitment to openness and transparency, this change in providing agenda items earlier wd go a long way to informing the public and avoiding their feeling things are sprung on them and they get little notice so no time to prepare for ccl mtgs and issues of interest to them.
How about it?
A NV mayor some years ago said their agendas were circulated three weeks ahead (but not to the public -- so I say WV can take a step further ahead and open up to the public!).}

this $31K; here asking you to defer Schedule 11G; want to be able to engage the M on this important issue
Graham Walker: live in DNV but on exec of WV Field Hockey Club and here with some other exec mbrs
also here asking to defer Schedule 11G; brevity just echo his comments; slightly diff perspective
did have consultative process last March (2007); sports advisory forum mtg
did have a rep from field hockey group at that mtg
concerns were expressed at that mtg
since then been consultation with F H club for users of the grass fields
as Mr Miller hinted, we received notice of this mtg and on agenda, through a series of emails from the soccer club
involved in Hugo Ray right now and see benefits of user fees if done properly
must be done fairly to all user groups, proportionate to degree of use, and applied consistently
concerns expressed at the adv forum mtg in March are as follows:
payments shd be related to the actual use of the premises
from DWV website there are 33 grass and gravel fields; 28 soccer; 21 baseball/softball; and four for field hockey
for the WV Field Hockey Club, the jr players who use the four at Hugo Ray are under seven and under ten age group range, rest largely play on turf fields in NV and WV
try to keep fees as low as we can for young; incentive to join and they're future
the under seven and under eight field hockey players play and practise once a week over a ten-week period April through June; not Sept through March as for soccer
under nines and tens, use Hugo Ray on a limited basis, during spring and summer months
note from bylaws, great deal of uncertainty as to how it's going to be applied
fee of $15, one time only? per person per year? or my daughter who plays in field hockey, and other sports in WV; not clear to us and haven't had opportunity to have input into the scope of those fees
may be other legitimate options to consider, for instance, hourly or match rates might be preferable and may be just as advantageous to the District in the long run
echo Mr Miller's re setting fees, not possible to retroactively collect from our players
another concern wd like some consultation with Mr Pike's group
want any fees be put back into repair facilities rather than general revenue (happened in Vancouver don't want to happen on NSh)
WV FH group wd like there to be an open consultation process with other groups
requests from exec; was no followup discussion to our points raised last March
respectfully defer Schedule 11G till more consultation
Ken Booth: don't represent an assn; but 4K children
I've got four chn, all under 13 years old, play field hockey, soccer, etc; ours one of the emails; bit of a shock to see user fees
$15 per child not much but four kids is quite a bit; another tax grab by the M
when I was growing up fields were provided by the City; obviously budget issue here
astounding users asked for something City shd be providing
as one of your emails said, will there be a user fee next year for seawall?
I'd put it stronger -- think you guys shd stop these fees, obviously something wrong with your budget not allocated enough for mntnce of fields
fees not put into gen revenue
Mayor: go to Mr Pike for summary
KP: those presentations changed my [remarks] a bit
girls did send out email, not enough consultation, hardship, inconvenient, fees will rise over time
charges were instituted in the 2007 budget partly result of recommendation from the Fiscal Task Force, not to mntnce but to subsidy
changes made in this past year, largely reducing the subsidy for rec progs whether fields or srs' ctr, cost to swim, and most of the subsidies are to chn and srs
end of March, a field users' cmte and this was all that was discussed at that mtg
rugby, track and field doesn't apply
Mar 29th townhall mtg on budget and some urged even more rapid reduction in the subsidy for rec services; no one from sports groups commented
through web -- asked ppl about fees and comment primarily from seniors

{Rather interesting.  It's a pity so few ppl take an interest in municipal affairs.  This results in complaints and expressions of surprise when a devt or rezoning happens in their area, or a cost such as this for some users.  Yet some proposals have been on the books or being discussed for many weeks or months; and the budget is discussed for months so anyone who wants to find out is able to.  Not keeping informed often means things happen you wd hv or cd hv tried to change.  The system is being opened up by this Ccl, but if they do their part, residents must do theirs and and get involved.  Insist on getting the information you want and then give your ideas to Ccl for their consideration.
Be a part of your cmnty!}   

Apr 30 as noted, Mr Miller did appear and he did not object to the fee but as to timing b/c fees already been collected
May 11 when fee included in budget along with all the changes and fee increases contained therein and that night a number of seniors again wrt fees but no one else
over the summer, parks mgr had a number of conversations wrt fees
Yes, Mr Miller was aware, communications back and forth, cd hv bn more effective
know v well Field Hockey well aware of fee implementation
like Mr Miller, we're not interested in pointing fingers
enormous respect for those who run sport in this cmnty
find way to do more effectively; prepared to look at a whole variety of things
2008? this is not retroactive, budget said wd be implemented in Sept (2007)
like Mr Walker, an administrative burden; the $15 was chosen b/c relatively simple and does not require a lot of staff time to figure out how many, ages, wch fields, etc, simple both for us and the sports groups
Mayor: one other thing to put in context, this was debated in Ccl last spring; made the tax rate increase the lowest in the region; also wishing to shift to user fees based on WV survey data based on last two cmnty-wide surveys suggesting that most residents favour that as an equitable way to distribute costs; now we're testing that; we cd be wrong
difficult to find any politician saying raising taxes 3% is not nearly enough
challenge facing this Ccl; now looking five years out, implementing slowly over time
with what we know about wages and CPI, going to require cutting potentially $5M out of our operating budget -- it's significant; going to require off of us to work with the cmnty; going to require much better consultation, and the Sports Forum is the obvious place to start; it started and stopped, don't think it has ever been properly supported by staff or attended to by volunteers that we value so highly in the cmnty, so we have to do better
Ccl appreciates this input but wish we cd hv gotten it in March, but human nature not to get involved in budget debates when there's so many things on the table
heart of cmnty
Ccl is trying to make a responsible fiscal decision, balance with what is fair; challenging ourselves to understand and to keep pace with costs, if this is reasonable
I think we're one of the few Ms that doesn't charge a field user fee;
KP: haven't exact numbers, certainly they do in NV, some others do and others starting to charge all across the Lower Mainland
MS: introduce bylaw, first reading
[Both CARRIED; moved second reading]
I certainly support concept of userpay
our budget was passed in May; a lot of these groups already had their 2007 budgets set and collected fees
Girls' softball group's season was long since over; don't know how they can retroactively collect the user fee for the field
I don't like to defer money we need in our budget, in the interest of fairplay; direct staff not collect fees for 2007 but apply them as approved for 2008
Mayor: amendment? well, discussion
VV: basically agree with Cclr Smith; difficulty in administrative position; retroactively don't think that works
shd implement for 2008 but can we implement more, a larger amt; maybe state a percentage
amendment don't collect on Sch 11G but 2008 say 2 or 3% higher?
Mayor: if we defer this, proper consultation asked for and proceed from there
Sop: agree we shdn't do anything in 2007
we sat and pushed for zero tax rate increase; easing the burden on the taxpayer
we tell kids run on fields and breathe in fresh air
are we so hard up we can't find another way to raise some funds?
start a Sports WG and get down to something realistic about what going to do
understand Fiscal group looking for ways and means
but health? what does it come down to?
are we saving anything in the long run? are we serving anyone?
find our way through financial quagmire
only going to do it by working with these ppl
you mentioned it, in fact, at election time, where's WG on Sports?
until then, defer
JF: interesting discussion; clearly remember discussion during budget debate
I was the only one who spoke in opposition to increasing user fees, in spite of the fact I thought I made a v strong presentation saying it wd be the seniors and the youth of our cmnty who wd bear the brunt of these user fee changes, and I did not vote for the budget as a consequence; everyone else on the Ccl voted for the budget and voted to increase the user fees and decrease subsidization of sports, recreation, and cultural activities, etc
So my question now is, budget has been passed, money has been allocated, fine to say we can afford $30K but where's it coming from? who else is going to feel the pinch of reduced services/programs b/c we're not going to collect the $30K in the budget Ccl passed?
if not collecting from sports, then how about seniors? shd they be given an exemption this time around as well? how about other increases in user fees?
Seems to me shd be able to explain fair treatment of all the user groups
if we're going to allow one user group to be exempt then maybe shd hv discussion around all to be exempt this year?

{Good points all, Jeanie.}

CAO: F&A CMte working on a policy wrt user fees and subsidies and will come to Ccl this fall
JC: I support user fees, if you're going to use anything, you have to pay for it; club, sport, I've done it and paid my way
I do find, however, the logistics, a nightmare; and make suggestion now to remove 11G
Sop: second
CAO: you want to amend 11G to be effective Jan 1, then intervening period to discuss
companion motion to ask Dir/Fin to amend budget and can include that in the budget amendment bylaw
Mayor: so bylaw amended to Jan 1
CAO: wrt annual fees, grass all-weather turf
Mayor: as amendment then whole?
KP: b/c from Fiscal Sustainability Task Force, the way we proceed covers the use of all fields, not just grass
Sop: so goes to 2008; what about if not $15?
CAO: will be new fees and charges bylaw; comes forth ev year
Ccl will be in position to decide wrt 2008
Sop: problem I see; artificial turf has a big sign, don't go there
find that a little bit disconcerting, fee for what we pay tax on and now clamping onto another $15 for ev child that wants to run on a field
wd this whole thing work if not a mass of volunteers and we never consider that aspect
looking at tax dollars, real good sit down
Mayor: that's speaking against the amendment
MS: wd like to speak to some; 11G also includes the artificial fields so serious mistake
Mayor: that's rental rates, not annual fee; Mr Pike was referring to all forms, p 109
MS: so to be clear re new charge
CAO: amending wd come into effect Jan 1; allows it to talk to groups regardless of their cycle
know dealt with within Calendar
Mayor: a question on the amendment having 11G effective Jan
CAO; wrt annual fees
Sop: $15
Mayor: amendment carries; now third reading
MS: v unfortunate some cclrs portraying themselves as rosy-cheeked chn and imposing fees
not really a user-fee per se
we subsidise to the tune of $6M a year; we don't charge fees for rec and cultural services, not fair to say we do
to be frank and honest with cmnty, real dilemma to deal with
I wasn't on Ccl when decided to spend $50M of our reserves
don't want to spend -- Cclr Clrk and I -- nickel and dime everyone to death
not going to sit here and listen to this nonsense any more
Mayor: motion carries; third reading? more discussion?
Sop: not about any one cclr but we've not had dialogue wrt our decisions in public
F&A Cmte to budget to Ccl; where's linkage? we don't have it
not one cclr or another, but lost what we're doing and haven't communicated well
Mayor: I don't agree with that
CAO: sports group clear user fees; some discussion about consultation, method, but don't think any confusion, budget process
Mayor: notice went out; feedback; Fiscal & Audit Cmte meets ev two weeks, in past once a year for five minutes
working on annual; not sustainable financial management
can't do without cmnty; all have to take responsibility; serious challenges; can always do better; we have begun
As well, we didn't win the Govt Finance Ofcrs' award of NAm for our annual report for no reason; we won it b/c we had performance measures in there; we're trying our v best to be as clear and straightforward with the cmnty as we can; so we'll keep going.

{This does need some qualification.  The award is judged solely on the quality of the municipality's annual financial report and has nothing to do with sustainable financial management. Not to mention that of the almost 40 Canadian municipalities that paid the fee to enter the competition, 35 won awards.  Not sure where the Mayor gets the idea that the award was won because of performance measures. Of the 16 pages of criteria listed on the www.gfoa.org website for this award, nowhere can one find performance measures, value for money audits, or sustainability. Points are awarded, however, for font size and sequential page numbers (p15, misc criteria nos 4 and 8, so I kid you not).
Pls do not misinterpret; the award does mean something.}

[Third reading passes]
CAO: follow-up motion wrt consulting
Mayor: motion passes third reading; believe Cclr Clark has
JC: Ccl have Sports Forum
RD; forum? in favour WG
Mayor: wording, Cmnty Sports WG; CEC set up?
CAO:  I take it that Ccl understands that we will be bringing forward in the budget amendment bylaw to deal with this; it's awful late in the year, and I wdn't to get into the position where we have to significantly cut services in another area in order to address this particular adjustment.
9.         Solid Waste Utility Bylaw No. 4118, 1998, Amendment Bylaw No. 4528, 2007 for three readings
Mayor: staff?
CAO: Phil Bates may be able and Al Lynch from Recycling Group
PB: Changing for sgl- and multi-family residents.  Metro Vancouver approved the extension of existing material bans at all of its transfer stations and waste collection facilities.
all blue boxes and under prov stewardship and yard and garden waste
prohibited as of Jan 2008; always encouraged as common practice in WV
blue boxes all in place; yard waste is currently a nine-month prog and staff recommends extend to year long
....winter storms and blowdown
$1.46 nominal increase for 12 months
Al Lynch is here from NSh Recycling
Mayor: Mr Lynch, wd you like to add anything about the zero-waste challenge
AL: Metro Vancouver driving what all the Ms are doing
following their lead; we don't have any choice, can't devp a food composting site
trying to maximize what already; will devp a strong communication prog to help residents understand
Mayor: goal to go beyond 50% but I think WV a bit above that
challenges we face wrt landfill; sooner than expected b/c of housing boom
Vanc has already moved not to include demolition in landfill, will have to be dealt with separately
moving organics from waste stream in Vanc; been successful in Seattle
residential waste is only a third
VV moved:
            1.         The municipal residential curbside yard trimmings collection program be extended from 9 months to a full 12 months as of December 1, 2007; and
            2.         The program of providing for free drop off of yard trimmings up to 100 kilograms per day for the first trip of the day at the North Shore Transfer Station be eliminated as of January 1, 2008.
Sop: think has been tremendously successful; certain things we can't recycle
the v garbage we send to recycle is put in plastic bag that doesn't recycle
AL: plastic bags constitute v tiny proportion or the waste stream, from a sanitation standpoint and cleanliness of garbage containers, don't know what the option wd be; residents willing to wash can every week, challenge if you don't use something to line your garbage can b/c material will often stick to the sides; challenge for collectors and residents
as we progress, have less and less to dispose of
increase number of stewardship progs, and prohibit things from going in the garbage, going to be less and less as we go on
don't know there's any viable alternative to plastic garbage bags
10.       Local Area Service Lane Paving Construction 1300 Block Jefferson and Inglewood Avenue and 1160 - 14th Street Bylaw No. 4526, 2007
11.       Animal Control Bylaw 4208, 2000, Amendment Bylaw 4520, 2007
MS: going to take a look at this whole question; hate to see us so restrictive made to feel like a criminal
CAO: are intending to review the bylaw; ppl can walk their dogs on leash in most public spaces; prob in parks, issues in areas of access and egress even within parks
Mayor: I'd be interested in the staff recommendations on the public process for that as well.  That is critical.
{Just noticed: if you go to the DWV hompage you can click on www.westvancouver.ca/dogs for info, and I think they've set up a forum for ppl to write in.}
12.      Consent Agenda Items - Reports and Correspondence for approval
 =B7        Item 13 -  Development Variance Permit Application No. 07?038 (2929 Altamont Crescent) (to set date for consideration); and
=B7        Item 14 -  Correspondence List.
MS: item 4 and 17
13.       Development Variance Permit Application No. 07-038 (2929 Altamont Crescent) received for consideration on Monday, October 22, 2007.
(4)       Undated, 2007, regarding Lack of Adequate Parking at the Community Centre and [Seniors'] Centre
            Referred to the Director of Parks & Community Services for consideration and response.
MS: triggers a greater question; obviously a parking issue at the srs' ctr
was playing bridge at srs' ctr and had to park two blocks away in front of someone's house
in parking study, potential shortage of 45% of needed parking spaces when new cmnty ctr opens
are we going to return the front pkg until ctr finished and/or until see if adequate when ctr finished?
KP: always our intent to leave, that's why put there during this period, but became quite clear we needed access via that parking area
plan to reduce by 50% was not feasible to project mgr, big vehicles coming in, not safe so abided by request and removed for rest of construction [period]; movement of large cranes right to the end
caused us some difficulty, short of spaces but also in access to srs' ctr
now if you park underground plaza, have to walk around; v congested, no question
lost 100 spaces in front lawn; provided another 50 on Wetmore land but still quite a walk
we've provided a shuttle service, slow at first but now picking up
find this part v interesting b/c might even provide a longer term parking soln
pkg study was at peak load, not even malls look at parking a Christmastime
looking at percentages on site, haven't seen this %age before, we're not dealing with peak loads even though our parking study provides those numbers
looking at how underground parking comes on stream
we're building to LEED standard we don't want to cover that whole space with parking
MS: may I ask when we get our third qtr review, comment on LEED parking and what wd be involved in delaying front lawn until we find
KP: scheduled three weeks from tonight
CAO: had committed to that both short and long term
(17)     S.E. Dowey, Municipal Clerk - City of North Vancouver, September 20, 2007, regarding Federal Revenue Sharing with Municipalities - One-Sixth of the GST Revenue
MS: notice of motion? reduce GST to 5%; returned to Ms
only issue all agree with is that consumption taxes ...... makes no sense to reduce
get and support colleagues in other Ms; makes a lot of sense
CAO: at UBCM, in support
Mayor: good to write to NV and say we support them
Mayor: on UBCM conference, took most of last week
Homer-Dixon, the up side of down; our behaviour
opening that creek up; manage water; work of foreshore group
helping larger ways, allowing it to protect beach and protecting upland infrastructure
we may be in leading edge; wonderful to have a cmnty looking ahead supported by volunteers
sev mtgs with ministers; will follow up; climates have changed
JF: in representing this, LMTAC
had a mtg and they have agreed to repay some of the funding that they have removed from some
so received chq for $40K assist in operating costs for rest of year
remarks wrt new relationships; need for a M level of cooperation and consultation wrt proposals, and
so wd be in touch, to tap in some experience
Mayor: hopeful
JF: v hopeful; first time in terms of treaties... transition
Mayor: thank you for the five years you've served on the LMTAC
Carolanne Reynolds: Thank you.  Carolanne Reynolds, Editor of West Van Matters; also on Streamkeepers [Board]; you didn't report on it but thank you very much, Madam Mayor, for attending the Rivers Day for WV Streamkeepers on Saturday.
What I do want to talk about though--
You may recall in May or so I came, very distressed, that in spite of your efforts -- and I know you tried v hard to, Mayor Goldsmith-Jones to save the heritage cottage on Evelyn Drive -- and at that time I pleaded, with that experience in front of us, that building was lost but there wd be a process in place so that if any other heritage resource shd be threatened and endangered or at risk, there wd be a process so that ppl wd find out about it and have an opportunity to do something.
So in the past few days, I was absolutely devastated and disappointed to find that the Hugo Ray log cabin had been demolished in the last two weeks (and he was a reeve of West Vancouver!) by the Hugo Ray Park and I found out that some ppl knew about it in March.  It was not, I understand, conveyed to Ccl, so you didn't know about it.  I'm on some heritage cmtes, I didn't know about it.  So in March it was known by a few ppl, I don't want to name them, but it did not (it includes staff) but it did not come to your attention or some heritage groups' attention, and I am absolutely pleading with you now, we cd hv done something had we known in March
finding out two weeks after it's been demolished is not really a help, but in my opinion this is Strike Two.  And I really will plead with you.  Please put in place a process.
I know we don't have the legislation; I know we haven't got all of those things yet, but without them we can still try so I am pleading with you pls put a process so that if there's something someone deems a heritage that we find out about it so that we can try
wd you please make that commitment?
this is the second time in a few months
Mayor: Yes, and obviously it's a priority of this Ccl to get the heritage registry in place, wch we've never had before
CR: right
Mayor: I'm not sure of the process of feeding through from Stephen Mikicich, our senior planner in charge of heritage and Cclr Vaughan is the Ccl liaison to the Heritage Implementation Cmte, but we're having a mtg this week how to identify what's out there before we have something as formal as the Registry
CR: yes, it has to be done before the registry wch is... we've got consultants; we've just got the money -- btw we just found out today we have the money as of today [but] we shd be able to do something in the meantime
Mayor: Mr Nicholls to comment as well
SJN: just so that Ccl is aware.  This house was drawn to our attention, it was drawn to our attention by staff, and it was a log cabin up by the Hugo Ray Park
we looked at the possibility of moving it onto Hugo Ray Park; and we actually had log home experts go out and assess the home

{log home experts??? what about those familiar with heritage values?
Anyway, it doesn't take a heritage 'expert' to realize that the home of a former reeve of West Vancouver living in home some considered about the oldest on the North Shore next to a park named after him sort of has some significance, hm???
No one doubted it was in bad physical shape -- heritage is meaning, not sturdy carpentry.}

it was not on a heritage list, it was in an extremely poor, rotted condition, and it cd not be [moved?] the logs were so badly deteriorated on it; and so, based on that we decided not to pursue it, but this is a home that was actually looked at in detail in order to see whether or not it cd be saved, so I wdn't say that it was ignored, in fact it was brought to our attention notwithstanding it wasn't on any heritage list

{our? our? attention of staff, NOT to attention of Ccl or all the heritage/historical groups! -- that's the process that's needed!!!}

CR: unless Cclr Vaughan wants to speak, I have more to say to that
VV: no, I'm happy to listen to Ms Reynolds
CR: that's kind of you
[slowly] it  doesn't  really  matter  whether  it  is  architecturally  famous  or  sound
that is not the question
when you pay attention to heritage, it doesn't matter whether it was on its last legs!  I mean there are lots of ruins all over Asia, Europe, or wherever -- that isn't the point!
Heritage has several categories, it is cultural and historical, it cd even hv bn part of it, with a plaque
or whatever
the point I'm making is that it's not to be decided without coming to Ccl
Ccl didn't get the opportunity to have an opinion; neither did the heritage groups, several of wch I'm a mbr of
Mayor: yes
CR: I'm not saying we cd do something, but we shd be given the opportunity to offer suggestions or whatever; that's what I'm pleading for
Wd you please put in process that anything that even might be heritage, whether cultural, social, the whole [range], the five categories, not just a building structure
so I am pleading with you and I know you are interested in this as well, as I'm sure Cclr Vaughan is; I know Cclr Day and Soprovich who previously were [heritage liaisons] wd hv bn interested as well to try something
that's all we want -- is to try; to be notified and try
Mayor: thank you; we will follow up and that and by virtue of the fact we have a Heritage WG, I think it shows you all of Ccl's commitment to heritage
CR: Yes, but I'm on it and we weren't told!
Mayor: yes, I know; we'll try to close that loop as soon as we can
CR: I look forward to that; thank you very much
Mayor: thank you.
[Well, they told me that in May.  I do hope a process is actually put in place this time.}

=== LIMERICK FOR BARD === w= ritten 2007 Sept 24 just after Bard's 2007 close.....

                        There once was an actor named Gaze
                        whose acting left us all in a daze
                                 he started the Bard
                                 in the park's backyard
                        now Gaze can amaze with his plays

A cocky Department of Agriculture representative stopped at a farm and talked with an old farmer.   He told the farmer, "I need to inspect your farm."    
The old farmer said, "OK, but don't go in that field right over yonder."
The Agriculture representative said, "Mister, I have the authority of the Government with me.  See this card?  The card means I am allowed to go WHEREVER I WISH on any agricultural land.  No questions asked or answered.  Have I made myself clear?  Do you understand?!"
The farmer nodded politely and went about his farm work.
Later, the farmer heard loud screams and saw the Agriculture rep running for the fence and close behind was the farmer's huge-horned prize bull.  The bull was gaining on the Agriculture Rep with every step. 
The rep was clearly terrified, so farmer immediately threw down his tools, ran to the fence and shouted out.....
"Your card! Show him your card!"

=== THE VIEW FROM DOWN UNDER ===  The Aussie, the Kiwi, and the South African
An Australian, a Kiwi, and South African are in a bar one night having a beer.
All of a sudden the South African downs his beer, throws his glass in the air, pulls out a gun and shoots the glass to pieces. "In Seth Efrika our glasses are so cheap that we don't need to drink from the same one twice," he says.
The Kiwi, obviously impressed by this, downs his beer, throws his glass into the air, pulls out his gun and shoots the glass to pieces. "Wull mate, in Noo Zulland we have so much sand to make the glasses that we don't need to drink out the same glass either," he says.
The Australian, cool as a Koala of course, picks up his beer and downs it, throws his glass in the air, pulls out his gun and shoots the South African and the Kiwi. He turns to the astonished barman and says, "In Strailya mate, we have so many bloody South Africans and Kiwis that we don't need to drink with the same ones twice."


Robert Graves (1895 - 1985): There's no money in poetry, but then there's no poetry in money, either.

Carl Jung (1875 - 1961): The true leader is always led.

The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good.
                                -- Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784)
And G's favourite for this week:
Lucius Annaeus Seneca (ca 4BC - AD 65): I don't consider myself bald, I'm just taller than my hair.