Ccl Mtg NOTES Oct 22
Calendar to Nov 16/18

by Carolanne Reynolds, Editor

Breaking news (Oct 23) -- surprise! Dave Stuart leaves in Dec (end of his contract); returning to DNV where he was Deputy MMgr before coming to be WV's MMgr (now called CAO).  Sorry to see him go.  V intelligent, capable, practical, forthright in our conversations.  Resolved several tricky situations well, behind the scenes; not all reported.
=  Ccl WORKSHOP Oct 29th: Rodgers Creek WG Update
=  Vive le Canada; BOOKWATCH (Elspeth's on WV!); UPDATES & gRUMBLES (Budget 2008, Capers, Volunteers/cmtes); ANIMALWATCH; INFObits; CALENDAR to Nov 16th
= Oct 22nd Ccl Mtg NOTES - Executive Summary:
Zoning bylaw to redevt Shell site 1305 MDr PH closed, bylaw abandoned, new bylaw/PH Nov 19; DVP 2929 Altamont with bizarre reference to trees/views wch ought not to be tied to DVP approval ; New Ccl Procedure Bylaw introduced VV and Sop already want amendments, coming back for public input Nov 19;  SUCCESS! Rodgers Crk workshop with Ccl will be public but will be on Oct 29th a Monday night that had no ccl mtg b/c fifth Monday so there goes that free evening.....; PQP has lots on Hugo Ray Park (totally confusing for this observer), then Dundarave Traffic/Parking and delayed Draft Survey Questions, ending with Process (survey questions, mtgs, heritage, HRPark, implementation of plans).
= AGENDA Oct 29th; Maiku; Quotations

*** VIVE LE CANADA: Weather -- wettest province: Nova Scotia; sunniest: Saskatchewan; least snow: Alberta

>>>  There was an overflowing crowd at the book launch of Elspeth Bradbury's A View Through the Trees on Oct 24th at the Library.  What an elegant book! Copies can be purchased at M Hall and the Library -- $45 with sales going to the Lighthouse Park Preservation Society.  Buy one!  at least! and then another one as a Christmas present for someone interested in WV and our natural environment!  Excellent photos of WV's early days.
        ***  Elspeth will be speaking at the Library Nov 3 and at the Museum Nov 17.
>>>  A Reader called to ask about the snippet (Byzantium/Constantinople/Istanbul in WVM2007-31) on the first church in the New World (11th century in Greenland) and thus I noticed provenance had been omitted.  The obituary of Dr Shafi that followed gave me the clue; it was in The Economist of the same date.  The book review can be found at http://www.economist.com/books/PrinterFriendly.cfm?story_id=9900058 and the book is Byzantium: The Surprising Life of a Medieval Empire, by Judith Herrin (Allen Lane; 416 pages; =A320. To be published in January by Princeton University Press; $27.95).
>>>  The third book I've copyedited for him (but not all corrections were made) will be released October 30, "The Dord, the Diglot, and an Avocado or Two, the hidden lives and strange origins of common and not so common words" (by Anu Garg) but can be pre-ordered from Amazon.  More on this next issue, including correction to the mistake -- horrors -- on the back cover.  The book arrived at 32 Books in Edgemont Village on Oct 24 (980-9032).

At the Sept 25 mtg of the Finance & Audit cmte I recommended the initial broad strokes of the draft be out asap to Ccl or a public info mtg (in Oct) so we can see that the minimum tax rate is written as 3% (not end of November when we're getting into Christmas vacations).  Subsequent mtgs were cancelled.  At the Oct 22 ccl mtg I referred to the cancelled mtgs and lo and behold there's now a mtg Oct 30.  Thx, Cclr Smith, Chair!
The Vancouver Sun (2007-10-25, pp. C4) reported that the US Federal Trade Commission is appealing a judge's decision that permitted Whole Foods to acquire Wild Oats Markets (the US parent of, among other outlets, Capers). The FTC had argued that the takeover will hurt consumers as Whole Foods closes Wild Oats (and Capers) stores and drives up prices; and argues furthermore, the acquisition, which closed in late August, can still be undone (looks like too late for our Capers, however).  [More on this in next issue.  Chess moves.]
Want to serve on a working group or committee?  Call 925 7004 for more information. Applicants are requested to mail, fax, or deliver completed applications, with a brief personal resume, to the Legislative Services Department, or email to committees@westvancouver.ca
Application Deadline: 4:30pm Friday, November 2nd, 2007
Editor's Note: do hope you're interested in serving on some WG or cmte -- the more the merrier involved in the cmnty and contributing to making it better; v strongly recommend you attend a couple of meetings of the group to become familiar with the issues, venues, etc (except you can't for the news ones, of course!) and then you're prepared and can hit the ground running....

Meanwhile out in the Kalahari Desert, the saga of Meerkat Manor (on Knowledge Network, Ch 5, on Wednesdays at 7pm) documented/filmed by Cambridge University continues to captivate.  To chase away a cobra, they encircled it chattering but left one spot vacant/open so it had a place to escape through.  Flower's babies see daylight, little heads emerge above the hole opening, for the first time. Major cute factor.

===  INFObits
* October 26: 90th anniversary of the battle of Passchendaele
* October 25: World Pasta Day
* October 24:  52 years ago, the UN charter enshrined "the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples." Twelve years ago today, Aung San Suu Kyi was imprisoned.
Voices from within Burma: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7058610.stm  and
http://www.globalvoicesonline.org/-/world/east-asia/myanmar-burma/  and
*  Interview of Brit Military ofcr; he said: the govt expected the ppl to be overjoyed Saddam was gone regardless of the fact, loss of jobs, electricity, water, safety/security........

===  CALENDAR to Oct 25th  === [M Hall unless otherwise noted; confirm b/c sometimes changes]
REMEMBER the Farmers' Markets still on on weekends Sat/Sun in Amb/Dund
NB: mtgs and places are put here as given or found in the Cmnty Calendar.  Often the DWV website's info is changed.  I'm going to suggest changed info is put in red (or some other colour).  For example the WVPD bd mtg was listed as at the Cmnty Partnership office and then a day or so before the mtg, was changed to the Police Stn boardroom.  Both the Rodgers Crk WG and the Finance and Audit Cmte have been off and back on.  Rodgers Crk wisely put a few as 'tentative' and that is helpful b/c you know you have to check.

== Tuesday Oct 30th
~ 4:30pm ~ Well, I'm putting a Finance/Audit Cmte mtg here b/c there hasn't been one since Sept 25 -- they keep cancelling, wch is putting the budget process behind; Cclr Smith's the Chair and I know he wants one, so let's see who wins.  LATE-BREAKING NEWS -- it's on the Cmnty Calendar so it's on!             
~ 6:45- 9:15pm ~ Cmnty Ctr Governance WG at M Hall (think this is a final draft for info before going to Ccl)

== Wednesday Oct 31st -- HALLOWEEN
SAFETY / BLOCKWATCH NEWS  Source: http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/iyh-vsv/life-vie/halloween_e.html

== Thursday Nov 1st
        ~ 4:30pm ~ Heritage WG (Spencer Estate on agenda)
~ 7:30pm ~ at the Kay Meek Ctr --Good Governance. Does West Van make the grade?
So, to answer your many 'governance' questions and emails, the Directors of W.V.C.G.G. are pleased to invite you to a special Town Hall Meeting.  The purpose of this meeting will be to explore what 'Good Governance' really looks like, and how our current practices compare to the [Principles] of Good Government.  To help us explore this vital topic, we will hear from two distinguished speakers on this subject:
Dr. Martha Piper, Past President and Vice Chancellor of U.B.C.  Dr. Piper is globally recognized for her vision, knowledge, and understanding of the role of universities in the vitality of individuals, communities, and nations.  She authored UBC'S strategic plans, Trek 2000 and 2010, which serve as the University's vision to become one of the best universities in the world.
Dr. Michael Byers   Dr. Byers holds the Canada Research Chair in Global Politics and International Law at UBC.  He is the author of several books, including his most recent book "Intent for a Nation - What is Canada For", and a frequent contributor to the London Review of Books, The Globe & Mail, and the Toronto Star.
We have also invited Mayor Pam Goldsmith-Jones, members of Council, School Board Directors, Senior Management at West Vancouver [Municipal] Hall as well as Citizens' Groups, Rate Payers' Associations, Chamber of Commerce Members, and others.  A reception table will be available for membership renewal or to join WVCGG.  We look forward to your attending and to your input and questions. Thank you -- The Directors of W.V.C.G.G.

== Friday Nov 2nd -- SEEDS OF CHANGE CONFERENCE at the Kay Meek Ctr
With the environment being the subject of such interest at the moment, West Vancouver youth have chosen to focus on this topic at their 6th Annual Youth Leadership Conference. The Seeds for Change Conference has been organized by youth and features workshops on a variety of environmental issues.
Through support from the Kay Meek Centre, the WV Community Foundation, and the Park Royal Shopping Centre, the youth leadership conference will, for the first time this year, also be offering opportunities for the general public to participate. The following events are intended to include and engage the entire community and provoke thought and discussion about environmental issues:
Seeds for Change Dance Workshop with Judith Marcuse
        Friday November 2nd, 3:45 - 5:15pm at the Kay Meek Centre
Artistic excellence combined with social relevance has been the hallmark of Judith Marcuse's work as one of Canada's honoured senior artist/producers. Her career spans over 40 years of professional work as a dancer, choreographer, director, producer, teacher, writer, and lecturer in Canada and abroad. She has created over 100 original works for live performance by dance, theatre, and opera companies; choreographed extensively for film and television; and has produced seven large-scale arts festivals. This workshop, designed for people who don't necessarily have any dancing or acting training, uses games and exercises to explore the ways movement and theatre can open up new perspectives (and also be a lot of fun!). Wear comfy clothing. Ages 14 and up are welcome. To register call 925 7270, Course # 465317. Cost is $7.
Park Royal Shopping Centre Presents: Seeds for Change, Food for Thought Film Screening: A Stone's Throw
        Friday November 2nd, 7:30pm in the Kay Meek Centre Studio Theatre
Jack Walker (Kristen Holden-Ried) {Reid???}  has been travelling the world for years.  As a photojournalist he specializes in exposing companies that are responsible for polluting.  He arrives in a Nova Scotia town to see his sister, Olivia (Kathryn MacLellan). Olivia is suspicious, especially when Jack starts asking questions about a newly opened factory that's providing work for the community. Camelia Frieberg, one of Canada's top film producers, makes her feature film directorial debut with this movie which won the Best Atlantic Feature at the 2006 Atlantic Film Festival. $5 at the door.
Seeds for Change Action Day - Ambleside Park Invasive Species Pull
        Saturday November 3rd, 10am - 12pm
Get up early and work out some aggravation by yanking those invasive species out of one of our favourite local parks. Meet at the Ambleside Youth Centre at 10am. Refreshments will be provided.
Also on
==  Saturday, Nov 3rd
Rarely does a community have an opportunity to say, "That wonderful opera originated in our community and the composer is one of ours."  We shall be able to say that soon and to contribute to a successful launch of the opera.  The community is gathering on Saturday November 3rd at the Kay Meek Centre for 'A Night at the Opera".  The evening is a special event in support the March 2008 premiere production of The Dream Healer  -- an opera in two acts by West Vancouver's Lloyd Burritt.  This special event, supported by Phillips, Hager, & North, Investment Management Ltd., will be hosted by Christopher Gaze, and will feature excerpts from The Dream Healer performed by UBC Opera Ensemble, as well as a reception, silent auction, and an art auction.  Renowned North Shore artists Jane Adams, Velvet Bailes, Toni Cavelti, Barrie Chadwick, Kiff Holland, Peter Kiss, Sol Maya, Brian Romer, Sylvia Tait, and others have each donated an original work of art.  The art is on display, until November 2nd, at 1846 Marine Drive, the new premises of the West Van Community Partnership Office.  Bids are being accepted now and bidding will conclude at the Meek.   Tickets are $75 (with a tax receipt for $50) and available from the Meek Box Office at 913 3634.  This is an excellent occasion to recognize and support our artists and their contributions to the vibrancy of our community.   See you there on November 3rd!   More info: www.thedreamhealer.com

==  Wednesday Nov 7th   ~ 10am ~ Cmnty Engagement Cmte
                ~ 6pm ~ Cmnty Ctr Governance WG at Srs' Ctr
==  Sunday Nov 11th -- Remembrance Day Services 10:45 at 1900 Block M Dr

==  Monday Nov 12th -- Khahtsahlano Road Race ~ 7:50 - 11am, HBay to Park Royal

==  Tuesday Nov 13th -- Cmnty Grants/Soc Services WG ~ 7pm

==  Thursday Nov 15th
        ~ 7pm ~ NShFamily Court & Youth Justice Cmte at CNV M Hall
        ~ 7:30pm ~ WV Streamkeepers: Public Mtg at St Stephen's, 885 - 22nd

==  Friday Nov 16th -- Arts & Culture Strategy ~ 8:45am

==  Sunday Nov 18th -- WV Cmnty Ctr & Srs' Craft Market ~ 10am - 3pm at Srs' Ctr

--  Landscapes -- Nov 6 - 25 -- Lynne Greene, Peter Langer, Leslie McGuffin, Barbara Wilson
        Opening Night: 6 - 8pm Nov 6; Artists in Attendance:  2 - 3pm Nov 10

+++  WV MEMORIAL LIBRARY +++ see www.westvanlib.ca for more!
Thursday 1    Shakespeare's Richard III on Film: Richard III: 6pm
Viewing and discussion of the 1995 version of the film starring Ian McKellen and Annette Bening and set in the 1930s in a mythical fascist London.
Sunday 4    Walking the Camino de Santiago: 1 - 3pm
Explore ancient Spain's pilgrimage route with Bethan Davies and Ben Cole, authors of Walking the Camino de Santiago.
Tuesday 6    Reading James Joyce's Ulysses: 10:30am - 12:30pm
Please bring your own copy of the novel. Drop in; no registration required.
Friday 9    Teen Movie Night: 6:30 - 8:30pm  To register, phone 925 7408. Space is limited.
Thursday 15 DOC.TALKS: Supersize Me:  6:30pm
Morgan Spurlock embarks on a journey to find out if fast food is making Americans fat in this documentary.

+++  WV MUSEUM +++   BEHIND THE WIRE -- Nov 7 to Feb 9 

The West Vancouver Museum presents BEHIND THE WIRE: THE WARTIME DIARY AND ART OF ROBERT BUCKHAM. The exhibition features evocative illustrations of WWII from artist Robert Buckham's prisoner of war diary, journal, and artwork.  Also included are illustrations and paintings the artist produced after the war.
On his tenth bombing sortie over Germany on April 8, 1943, Captain Robert Buckham and the crew of his Wellington MK.III bomber were downed near Dusseldorf. Miraculously, the entire crew survived. Buckham was captured and imprisoned in the infamous prisoner of war camp Stalag Luft III in Sagan, Germany. In his illustrated war time diaries, Buckham recorded his internment, the trials of day-to-day existence, the failed "great escape" popularized by the Hollywood movie and his eventual "forced march to freedom" through one of Europe's coldest winters.
Buckham concealed his precious diary and drawings in old milk cans in order to protect them during the months he and over 10, 000 other PoWs endured a forced march in the dead of winter westward through Germany in front of the Russian advance. Those who survived were eventually liberated and in 1945, Buckham returned to Canada to resume his career as an illustrator and artist. His drawings of Canada's countryside and cityscapes graced the pages of the Globe and Mail for many years. His art was inspired by nature and local landscapes, as well as his frequent travels.
Guest Speaker Series
A number of special Behind the Wire public programs are scheduled in conjunction with the exhibition. Distinguished scholars, humanitarians, survivors of war, and experts in their fields offer a series of talks on issues related to international conflicts and consequences of war. Stay tuned for more talks currently being scheduled for January and February 2008.
=  Wednesday 7 - 9pm November 7 -- Behind the Wire Exhibit Opening and Reception
Special Guest: Katy Hedalen, Vocalist performs We'll Meet Again
We'll Meet Again, composed by Ross Parker and lyrics by Hughie Charles was popularized by British singer Vera Lynn during World War II. The song resonated with soldiers who were going off to war leaving their loved ones behind. West Vancouver soprano singer Katy Hedalen sings We'll Meet Again as a special tribute to those who served and dedicated their lives.
=  Wednesday 7 - 8:30pm November 14
Guest speaker: Major Harjit Sajjan, Reservist, British Columbia Regiment, Reconnaissance Squadron
Topic: The Canadian Forces in Afghanistan Protecting Canadians -- Rebuilding Afghanistan
Major Harjit Saijan, a Reservist with the British Columbia Regiment where he is Officer Commanding, Reconnaissance Squadron, served in Afghanistan in 2006 under Brigadier General David Fraser, Commander of the Multi-National Brigade. Major Sajjan shares his personal experiences and discusses the Canadian Forces contribution in Afghanistan.

+++  WV ARTS COUNCIL +++ visit www.silkpurse.ca for more events (most ticketed)
Tuesday, November 6 - Sunday, November 18, 2007
'Woman - A Visual Journal'
The human figure has been revered as a symbol for perfection since the time of the Ancient Greeks, who modeled their gods in our image. In celebration of what it means to be a woman, join us for an exhibition of pencil and watercolour drawings of women by artist Pat Rafferty, who is devoted to a better understanding of the elements that make up the human figure and how to better portray them.
Opening: Tuesday, November 6 from 6-8 pm

--->  For events at KMC, see www.kaymeekcentre.com

=== WV Council Mtg NOTES Oct 22nd ===

1.                  CALL TO ORDER
ZONING BYLAW NO. 2200, 1968, AMENDMENT BYLAW NO. 4525, 2007 (re Shell Gas Station, 1305 Marine Drive)
DEVELOPMENT PERMIT APPLICATION NO. 05-016 (re  Shell Gas Station, 1305 Marine Drive)
[Intro/description in PH Notes Oct 15 above]
[Mayor explained]
SSch: add'l info/report from the Cmnty Planner
Sop: this Amb plan we've been working on, hasn't come to end
have seen hirise condo plan behind this site -- how does that fit in?
GB: you're referring to on the Pat's site; when we did this site not aware of that
that site had a mtg last week and will come to Ccl soon
plan does see this gas stn as part of gateway; didn't build plan on the station's going
want to know what we can
Mayor: received further report, letter re what if we lose services and Jubilee tree plaque?
Further input? applicant? public?
            1)         Reports to Council received up to October 17, 2007:
                J. Bailey, Community Planner, September 7, 2007
            2)         Correspondence received up to October 17, 2007:
                R. and C. Ash, September 07, 2007
                V. Johnson and J. Robertson, September 10, 2007
On September 17, 2007 Council set the date for the Public Hearing/Public Meeting. The Public Hearing/Public Meeting was held on October 15, 2007 and adjourned to October 22.  On September 27, 2007, 748 Notices were mailed to owners/occupiers within 100 metres of the subject site.  The statutory notice of Public Hearing/Public Meeting was published in the North Shore News on October 7 and October 10, 2007.  The Municipal Clerk will note written submissions received.
6.         APPLICANT'S PRESENTATION //  7.         PUBLIC INPUT  -- NONE for either.
JF MOVED THAT:  all written and verbal submissions ... be received and that the Reconvened Public Hearing and Public Meeting be closed.
Mayor: We'll discuss this in the regular ccl mtg

MS: add revised public hearing/mtg minutes; add item and item 7.1 re mtg
SSch: an add'l item for Oct 29th
3.         North Shore Family Court & Youth Justice Committee - Annual Report
Nancy Henderson, current, and Kathleen Glynn-Morris, last year's chair:
All three NShMs: Courtwatchers Program; Domestic Violence Program
Provincial Conference: Journey to Justice. keynote speakers: Attorney General Wally Oppal, Complete Seattle Community Court (Judiciary, Defence, prosecution)
Meeting with Administrative Judge Moss re improvements and new process re annual report
Meeting with Superintendent Tomlinson (NV detachment of RCMP) re privacy impacts to receiving info regarding youth diversions, new info-sharing, impacts on office space for domestic violence prog (had been housed at detachment)
Last week met with new WV Police Chief, Heed, re info gathering concerning youth activities
Increase in number of domestic charges
In 2005, need to double the figures; shorten annual reports so received earlier so receive statistics in summer so can be commented on by stakeholder groups.
reason for increase in domestic violence may be b/c women are staying longer in relationships. Lack of Victims Assistance?
Small increase in number of stays of proceedings; we are watching this b/c a third proceed to trial
Of concern b/c may be a result of threats from partners so women not proceeding
Lack of Victim Services Worker in NV court seems to have had an impact; had been important in successful prosecution
YOUTH  --  charges for youth increase, but inconsistent with decrease SEE SLIDE
~25% of youth charges are breach charges from original dispositions
extrajudicial measures at police discretion. Would like to monitor what these are.
Time of completion improving -- 45%
complete -- Supreme Court of Canada says 8 to 20 months
PLANS for 2007
Internet Forum "Parenting in a Cyber Age" Nov 29 at Centennial Forum 7 - 9:30pm
keynote speaker Merlyn Horton
= Task Force for Youth Criminal Justice Act Review; judiciary of NSh participating; will come back to Ccls
= Family Relations Act Reform Review
= Change in Administration City of North Vanc suggests rotation so change in Jan for a three-year term.
= Work with other Family Court and Youth Just cmtes to devp TofRef with Ministry of AG and Sol Gen and prov govt
JC: three, five years ago I was the liaison and each year improving, great
the Victim Services Worker -- how did we come to lose that position?
Ans: funded by prov govt through Ministry of AG or Solicitor General and Safety; victim of the cutbacks three or four years ago; that was a worker with specialized training to support victims through court system .....  loss of that position a real blow
continues to be an observed position
acute in domestic violence cases
JC: full-time
Ans: yes
JC: cost?
Ans: if M will to look at that we cd look at the models, costs RCMP has within detachment (but they don't follow on to court); we cd look into that, research being done.
JC: app being kept up to date
RD: I see we have almost no cases of domestic violence in WV
Ans: yes; remember that you're looking at the number of charges by M
there's a big diff, subject of discussion with Chief Heed, between occurrences vs charges
RD: we practise more subtle forms of suppression in WV?
Ans: other factors ......
Sop: had opp to chair Social Services group and helped to enlighten myself
taking a hard look; WV not devoid of probs
with all you know, why are you not pressuring the prov govt those probs there ten years ago when I was there; you keep pounding away
on domestic violence wch we shd all be supporting
{:-) I'm sure not meant the way it sounded!}
where are you on that?  have you
through repeat offenders -- do they get a slap on the wrist? won't do anything with them?
those incarcerated don't want to go back but we foster repeat offenders
Ans: on the first, the role of the prov govt is a chronic issue
prov govt decided not to provide services -- downloading or offloading
reorganization of Ministry of Families, Health
tried to identify gaps and when see real risks we try to bring them to attention
we're a body of the three Ccls and our role to advise and bring to attention
not really part of planning, and lobbying .....
Many on NSh have lobbied, Safe House for Youth, loss of women's shelter
prov govt has not restored those services and we all become exhausted and frustrated
heard Ms express frustration of prov services
wrt Young Offenders, tried to illustrate the number of breaches
we have seen youth crime decrease
avoidance of custody and instead efforts to rehabilitate and restorative justice activity rather than harsh sentences
not much evidence custodial sentences have a significant effect on recidivism; general decreases over last ten years, measures we've been taking shown to be effective
Mayor: our Police Dept taken up restorative justice, they're v pleased to be involved with that, with leadership shown by that group
our volunteers in victims' services is growing; reports of more cases of domestic violence being reported
have your social services grant application for the symposium; Cclr Sop this is your cmte's chance to partner with the Family Youth Justice Cmte on this
understand productive mtg with Chief Heed last week and he wanted you to know he's very committed, particularly to the issues in the cmnty and how we can work better together.

4.         Development Variance Permit Application No. 07-038 (2929 Altamont Crescent)
At the October 1, 2007 meeting, Council received the report dated September 20, 2007 from the Community Planner
Maurice Boxted (sp?) : owner of prop across, SW of this prop
am preparing plans to devp my property and I can support this DVP although it does not meet the current criteria of design of a new house; it's a case of upgrading an old house in a substantial way.
Joe Linzen: I want to put a second floor on; only talking about a little triangular shaped piece on the second floor that wd be added: 14-15ft depth perpendicular to the triangle
Sop: have you had any conversation with the nbrs wrt hedge or trees on north side of the prop
helping out wrt view?
JL: brief discussion; but I don't know how far this goes into consideration, how much related the one thing with the other

{Astonished with Cclr Sop's question and I'm sure the owner was also taken aback -- surely there's no connection.  OTOH, those were some powerful ppl who wrote in -- Altamont after all has large properties and is one of the more wealthy estate-like areas in already fairly wealthy WV thus influential ppl -- big Liberal name, one at least who works with BPP, another with Legion, etc.}

Sop: some of these areas on M prop. that's another consideration; I guess in a nebular [?] way when you're looking for variance, wch you are, in consideration of that variance, what is the cmnty benefit you cd provide for that area, if any.

{odious suggestion; since when is giving nbrs a view a 'cmnty benefit'? and how or why shd that be tied to Ccl's granting of a small variance to a house, where in any case some trees have to be removed and some retained for the owner's privacy???  Astonishing.}

JL: so -- as a deal?

{We were incredulous.  Clearly, the owner also saw this as threat/blackmail and there was a slight gasp in the gallery.  IMO, a totally inappropriate question/comment by Cclr Sop, usually a much more sympathetic character.}

Sop: oh well, you know, if not a deal, I guess ppl in the area want
JL: sure, yeah. I--
Sop: push and pull here, is the deal that I'm seeing
[some cynical laughter in the gallery]
JL: I can totally see their point; it's just something, ah, going into a new nbrhd, and cutting deals and trying to, I don't know, it's not my thing to, to uh, in, the nbrhd like that, I'm more the old-fashioned way, right
Sop: re Correspondence -- Madam Mayor said I cd go into that

{Clerk's Dept correctly put the letter, 5.1, in Correspondence on the agenda b/c it shd not have anything to do with this DVP application.}

Nbrhd policy, being eroded
Peter Annable: live immediately north; had opp to meet with Joe Linzen, welcome him to nbrhd, seems cooperative; want trees thinned and preserve his privacy
Joe's made a good effort to go around the nbrhd; ev is in favour of change; want opp at same time to improve views
JC moved: THAT all written and verbal submissions ... be received.
then further: THAT Council approve the DVP which would allow for a second storey addition with a variance to the required Front Yard, as presented in the September 20, 2007 report from the Community Planner
JC: we've heard from immed nbr and in our pkg tonight a couple of dozen letters all in support albeit in one form; only outstanding issue is this hedge...  hope can find a solution
the house is, with the addition, will still have the same footprint; existing nonconformities approved in 1987 so in effect the house does conform.....
Mayor: can the hedge be tied in?
GB: some trees on M; and some on site; obvious to staff that to put second storey some...  tree-retention plan
for off-site we do have a policy for dealing with that
appears the nbrhd is working on that
wrt private covenant [Sop referred to], it was entered into at time of subdivision -- not Ccl's covenant
Sop: what cd we expect re tree mgmt in relation to that hedge; if this legal doc is valid, can't be over 5ft; where is compromise?
GB: wd conclude hedge on our ROW, but trees on his lot
I expect some trees are going to have to come out; there's an opp to look at what you can preserve and what for views for nbrs
Sop: so nbrs can apply to City Hall, and have it signed off by District, altered or windowed?
GB: that's right

5.         Notice of Intent to Consider Council Procedure Bylaw No. 4483, 2006 (Revised)
1.                  Notice be given that it is the intent of Council to consider proposed Council Procedure Bylaw No. 4483, 2006 as revised, which has been further updated to reflect procedural changes approved by Council, and in text and format;
2.                  Following statutory notification, the bylaw be scheduled for Council's consideration at the November 19, 2007 regular Council meeting.
Mayor: can that wait?
VV: don't think I can.  In 4.6 refers to Clerk making agenda av two days before ccl mtg 7:54
say can defer but great inconvenience to public if Ccl does defer something
really think we shd hv a timeframe more realistic
I think five days instead of two days wd accomplish that
it almost seems to me what we get on Thursday shd be not for Monday but for the Monday after that; often we have to research it and two days just not enough
tight timetable we have to defer; I wd suggest five days, at least something substantial
CAO: at this point just setting date; then on that date consider amendments
provide notice, Cclr V has that amendment
Sop: I have 19 more, wait for that night
CAO: give some of them [to staff/us] beforehand
Sop: some but want to debate in public
CAO: advance notice, then staff in position to advise Ccl
Mayor: a lot of work into this with Mr Stuart, Ms Scholes, and myself
MS: in view of that disturbing info that Cclr Sop will discuss 14...
may I suggest my Child Care [agenda item] go ahead, when some of us still fresh and not sitting here in a dazed state

6.         Zoning Bylaw No. 2200, 1968, Amendment Bylaw No. 4525, 2007  -- Information to be provided. {was at ccl mtg that recommended to be abandoned}
JF: b/c of service station, abandon this bylaw and set a new Public Hearing
Mayor: need to abandon b/c if full service at pump then it's a diff use than the orig proposal and we have to begin again
VV: regardless of how this transpires, surprised in report no mention of the Amb Town Strategy, reference of OCP and Design Review but put up so we/public can see
Mayor: if to do with abandonment
VV: well, it does but now as mentioned [slide]
the Town Ctr, six blocks long and two blocks wide; [WG] wants to reduce this length
describes purple colouring as townhouses; if you have a convenience store right next to townhouses, won't go ahead b/c no one wants to live next to a gas stn, even an attractive one, b/c open until midnight
either abandon that as residential or have a convenience store open to midnight
so recently received this on Amb, and seems to run counter to intent; surprised not discussed as an overall constraint
same point whether we abandon or continue b/c convenience store still there
GB: the Amb Town Ctr Strategy is imp and we're using it as a guiding doc
the purple areas on slide, provide opp for residential or mixed use, designed for flexibility
no ref was made to Amb Town Strategy but to Gateway report does
MS: on Amb Strategy, don't think intent to tell owners what to do with their land or take away their rights, sounds Trotskyite to me
gas stn a vital part of a cmnty; nothing's more smart-looking than a gas stn
{much laughter; esp those who know Mike has a 'petroleum products' company -- Imperial Oil distributor?}
original question is do we want to return full-serve?
since ...... and Petrocan; only left with Chevron
offering full or self service so understand intent to enshrine
Mayor: so that's in favour of abandoning
7.         Zoning Bylaw No. 2200, 1968, Amendment Bylaw No. 4530, 2007  -- Information to be provided.
[MS moved new bylaw for PH/public mtg re redevt of 1305 MDr]
Sop: when do we comment?
Mayor: we're holding a whole new public hearing; now or at new PH on 19th
Sop: I'll save it

7.1       Ccl Mtg changes
        = Nov 19th Cmte of Whole to regular ccl mtg
        = Oct 29th to Rodgers Crk Workshop

BYLAW for Adoption
8.         Regulatory Bylaw Enforcement and Penalty Amending Bylaw No. 4521, 2007
Sop: not going to support this
Mayor: another move adoption
[JF did]
Mayor: why opposed?
Sop: service charge, fee charge, don't want to go through it again
but if we find ways to raise money, there's no plan in front of Ccl of where those monies will go, how much raised, truly going to have an impact on the prop tax and with no bad feelings as to all work that's been done
if we collect school tax for maintenance of school props why not find efficiencies within school yard rather than charging a child $15?
add every year to an ever-growing pot or find a different way; that's my principle
CAO: think Cclr Sop is referring to user fees approved in Budget 2007, then implementation deferred to January 2008
we'll be consulting with the field users wrt this particular fee and providing further info to Ccl in terms of the justification and the acceptance by the field users as to its appropriateness
this is just ensuring in fact that we can move those discussions forward
VV:....Mr Stuart has answered my question
Mayor: animal control bylaw is all up for review
discussion the Fiscal Sustainability Task Force and Budget you [all] participated in indicated user fees is something ev mbr of Ccl wishes to explore
opportunity to change direction for 2008; sometimes it's difficult to really appreciate the impact until we're right there;  is a little late in the game; discussion this fall for next year's budget

9.         Correspondence List [complete list in prev issue]
VV: Items 4 and 10
(4)       Federation of Canadian Municipalities, October 10, 2007, regarding Municipal Infrastructure Survey, October 05-November 01
                Referred to the Director of Engineering and Transportation for consideration and response.
VV: seem to be getting question in a survey form; how much $60B of infrastructure deficit is available?
infrastructure deficit; doesn't apply to us?; want to know
Mayor: and look at Metro Vancouver region
take sewer, .... [etc] ...  and what about landfill
v useful report
CAO: will supply Ccl with our responses to the the survey
(5.1)        P. and B. Annable, C. and E. Shumiatcher, B. and B. Kellogg, M. McConkie, G. and N. Yorke, P. and C. Strelaeff, D. and C. Longcroft, undated, regarding Response from Neighbours:  DVP Application (2929 Altamont Cr)
        Referred to the Director of Planning, Lands and Permits for consideration and response.
{This is the letter Cclr Sop was referring to.  It is strange that it's here in the Correspondence List with obviously an inserted number -- 5.1 between 5 and 6 -- rather than added to the item on the DVP for 2929.  Maybe it's b/c Administration/Clerk's doing the agenda quite rightly judged that their request for cutting/removing trees had nothing to do with the DVP.}
(10)     Union of BC Municipalities, October 05, 2007, regarding Member Release: UBCM Convention - 2007 Resolutions and Policy Disposition
VV: that resoln was endorsed, increasing [Ccl term from] three to four years
ask staff -- for this or next?
CAO: just a recommendation; for prov; will follow up on what interest is
Responses to Correspondence
(14)     K. Pike, Director of Parks & Community Services, October 10, 2007, reply to D. Robertson regarding Esker Lane and Hugo Ray Park Proposal
{letter referred to in PQP}


Sop: took tour of new cmnty ctr; size of gym, incredible ctr; full length glazing, skylight; entire atrium skylight
combination with Srs' Ctr, Aq, with a central desk; amenities, spectacular place
on budget, under budget, and completion date next year
Mayor: and quarterly report coming to Ccl in Nov
MS: are we going to cancel the report now that Cclr Sop has given it, Madam Mayor?
Sop, angrily: why are you picking at me?  All I'm doing is saying I went to an event. You've always got to pick away?  
JC: He makes it so easy.
MS: it's an awfully big target, Cclr Sop.
can I ask through you to Mr Stuart, what's happened to report on extra MLAs?
CAO: just on Friday received info from prov, confirmed looking at eight mbrs will put on agenda for Nov 5th, reporting
VV: HWG did meet; has started work on Heritage Register
concern; wd ask heritage ofcr be at least be required to be informed, given demolition applications, so can compare what's there if it's of H interest
our Parks ppl sometimes do works of variance kinds; we have heritage [near] St Francis-in-the-Wood; example, look in poor shape but supposed to stay in heritage appearance so wd be interesting and helpful if the designated heritage officer in Planning Dept had a little more authority to request information
and cooperation from other depts, just to be informed about what's happening
Mayor: sounds like an internal issue, v worthy considering all the work that went into the Heritage Strategy
CAO: we can report back on that
{v much look forward to that!!!  Heritage Planner hasn't been in past.}
RD: Friday went to the reception sponsored the Wetlands Preservation Society, held in Youth Ctr, Amb Park
driving to Park Royal you see restoration; Sway'wey, was Pound Crk; Squamish Nation sent mbrs held a renaming; more poetic name; restoration of natural area lost to them, gateway to their cemetery wch is across MDr next to Pk Royal Towers to the north
MLAs came; envtal groups active were there, as well as my grandchildren
Civic event that evening; celebrates our volunteers in WV, 400 volunteers; v fortunate in work they do
v well-organized, Library foyer can hold 4-500 ppl quite comfortably, v nice building and foyer
want to congratulate and thank our volunteers again
Mayor: first event held in Cmnty Partners ofc last Wed; fundraiser by Cypress Park Elementary students that only goes to grade three; auction to benefit Coho Society; partnership with Ch of Commerce raised $5K in one evening for Coho
brought that spot on MDr to life more there as more; very nice opening; thank staff getting that up and running
first M sign that's had a  Sq Nation name on it; First Nation sign on it, first for Streamkeepers and Wetland Partners
first sign with First Nations, M, and Streamkeepers; shows we don't achieve much without our partners; welcome
thanks to Parks Dept
RD: thanks; done a good job
Mayor: well worth it


Mayor: seven to comment on Hugo Ray Park beginning with Rabbi Bergen [Birnham?]
Rabbi: question wrt traffic flow in the nbrhd; on/off ramp to Hwy
NSNews reported that Mayor said access approved and then NSN later, Sept 23, said and MLA Sultan said access not approved, wrt this confusion, is there a particular stance?
Mayor: may be a question of reporting; certainly at that mtg we spoke of positive discussions under way
Brent Dozzi: staff have put together three options for the Min of Hwys
MoH said they preferred one and if M were to proceed, likely get approval
not formal b/c final design needed for that
Rabbi: time?
BD: expected reply within week; detailed design may not be av until Dec
Rabbi: safety analysis av?
BD: one wrt a weave, that analysis has been completed and shows a good level; just one of the three options
Rabbi: just one?
BD: the option preferred is separated by a barrier; whereas safety analysis attached to option 3
CAO: mtg, maybe a month ago, we'd be providing both Ccl and public outstanding info on the grant
hoping in next three or four weeks to come forth
Sop: Mr Dozzi, wrt decision as to options, has there been any discussion as to who who's paying for it?
BD: expect M responsible
Sop: costs?
BD: three and wide-ranging; once detailed design for the one will be able to estimate cost
 ? Wishart (???): On Sept 2, NSN reported scope of HRPark once again changed, into two sections; further that construction of first phase 1 and 2 will begin next summer and next phase, 3 and 4, will occur in next two years
totally and completely opposite to what Ccl voted on Feb 12 of this year
when did Ccl vote to split the project into two parts?
when did Ccl give approval for construction to begin on this project?
why again nbrhd left out of this process?
why does nbrhd hv to get info from newspaper?
where does NSN get info -- HRPS or the Ccl?
if this info is av to the newspaper, why isn't the nbrhd getting this info?
if the newspaper is wrong, why is the Ccl not issuing a response to clarify this project is as yet totally unapproved?
KP: Mr Wishart is correct, not approved
four resolns from Ccl, latest one last Feb
Society came back; said probly better chance of receiving monies if both phases went ahead at the same time
in summer Ccl said only Phase One shd be approved
Ccl said you cd do Phase One and Two; a more streamlined proposal preferable

{certainly might be source of confusion -- did Ccl approve by saying 'cd do'?}

that is likely they wd do and all the money they were matching wd pay for
we've been waiting all along for the dollars, and has been that way since July 2006 and resoln in early Feb 2007
waiting for full funding, then we'll come back to Ccl money there or not
Wishart: seem to learn everything from newspaper and nothing from Ccl; makes nbrhd nervous
Mayor: all offers ....
phoned the v next morning and had a mtg with him right away; glad Jules Birnham [sp?]
put groups together; been difficult; met with Mr Barr and Mr Lust last week; a lot of speculation and innuendo perhaps on both sides
got summary from Mr Pike; nothing will be done without nbrhd being informed and a public workshop; perhaps a mtg such as the one for Rodgers Crk .....   report linking traffic .....
Ccl has to decide what to do with $2M raised from cmnty and possibly $2M from prov; signif choice to make
waiting; frustrating; has to operate under
first is to get this summary out to everybody; hoping to hear in next few weeks so we can begin
Sop: ah--
Mayor: a lot of ppl waiting to ask questions; are planning back to Ccl; had hoped to bring it back tonight but haven't heard from prov govt yet
almost ev Monday night we end our mtg this way; wd be much more straightforward for ev to deal with same body of info beginning with Mr Pike's summary on Ccl's agenda
Sop: for info, democracy in action; Mr Pike in all that I can remember, and I look at dollars raised
phase one and two wd see internal workings of traffic better, never dollars for extension of hwy wch assume a large dollar -- wonder where that fits in, if stay within structure
looking at $1M or more for interruption of hwy, safety or not
CAO: had a group come forward with a great idea; Ccl let them go raise funds; at this point simply speculation
sure Ccl will want to consult with cmnty; at this point only speculation
funding, improvements, many considerations, traffic mgmt; Ccl will have to consider in context and what cmnty will support
Mr Wishart: can this be made obvious in the newspaper?
CAO: we keep offering to meet; they say unless info, can't meet
Mayor: I've been told won't meet....
VV: I've been as baffled in trying to answer residents
Field Hockey and Cricket, now not....
Mayor: all sorts of obfuscation; Cricket included, that's fields 3 and 4
KPike: letter from their Prez saying they're willing to be involved and letters from some not
but intention to involve....
Stephen Gibbin: my question's been answered
Craig Turner: I want to display this binder -- it represents three years; in Sept three years
before question, quick background
in Sept 10 said tried to contact twice over....
and we've met four times with [staff, Ccl mbrs?]
also disappointed Hadden Blvd; no one from Ccl or staff attended even one of those mtgs; painted as diff b/c we hired a lawyer
say that without....  ; there are 145 households involved
HRPS seems to have an inside track, aware of ev move
when can we expect a proper and full response to our lawyer semi-legal...
Mayor: if legal involved not
KPike: did reply and got answer that my replies were not "proper" and that until they were our legal wd not
CT: reply was sketchy...
MRIF grant; perpetuated over three years
we don't want to; all we're asking for is answers
not satisfactory; answers we received no diff from efforts over past 30 months
CAO: in some cases, we're just speculating
some we don't have the answer; to say not proper is difficult
offer to meet; hope some sort of response wrt grant; hwy
full discussion as to what's proposed and what's on the table
MS: v difficult to answer hypothetical questions
no finite plan for what's proposed, no money, no
just a concept; someone to come forward with a plan; speculating
God himself cdn't provide an answer to b/c nothing, no plan to discuss, v frustrating
Catherine Barr: My original question, Mr Wishart's question, has this been split back into 1 and 2?
CAO: Ccl has done nothing, best discuss with Society -- they've talked to Ministry
Once Ministry has answered it will come to Ccl
diff to speculate until answer comes back
CB: what I don't understand, ads in newspaper
here's the fields; don't know how [changed?]
four fields, archery, etc
if I gave money, substantial monies to that thinking Ccl in control I'd want my money back if there's no plan to back it up
what my nbrs, read this is why my nbrs upset....  why we are upset; met four times with staff and mayor
we are here to talk to you
know our executive is upset at intonation [means implication?] that we're not around, that we're not here to meet with you
I'm upset at what you're saying here again; you don't know what's going on but the newspapers sure seem to know
they're the ones out there begging for money on behalf of WF and field hockey groups
wrt support, we in the nbrhd not only one opposing; as you kow Cricket vehemently opposes it now
and came to our intention last week was stated Cricket now supporting this, we wrote them and they said completely untrue; voted again this month to unanimously oppose the project; made further concessions to require extra special mtgs to ratify any change in its position; support for this project is waning
received 300 emails opposed to destruction of the grass fields; do you need us to supply copies?
Mayor: we have those
CB: Outlook poll, 90% opposed to devt of Park
for clarification purposes; official letter Sept 7 stated in last paragraph -- "WE applied"
has the District now joined?  if yes, when was this voted on?
why were we not included, or am I misreading this?
Mayor: Ccl supports the process
we don't know how much dependent on matching funds
Ccl is asking on a ten-year plan for capital plans......
artificial turf for field hockey plan for years and years
hundreds and hundreds, thousands, who play field hockey and that's what got us to this
interesting to see how fundraising
if Ccl turns it down?????
put out to Field Hockey to raise
CB: my question was has the District joined with the word WE?
CAO: without seeing the letter, DWV has said we are supportive; if staff said WE then that is in error
CB: we are not the applicant?
Mayor: we are not
CB: ....
Mayor: ... 3 and 4 for Cricket
CB: what was voted on in Feb
KP: as I indicated
... diff info from MRIF
ours is for cricket to continue on grass fields and wickets and that's our preference
CB: and it keeps changing
KP: when a volunteer goes out to raise money, things will change as they listen to funders and agencies
we weren't v plsed to see changes back and forth
they shd go forward and raise money
Rabbi Smuel Bernam (Birnham?): thank you for all your time; ev is speculative, things unclear and undecided
then I'll give my prepared reports
your comments are good but that's what's made the anxiety in the nbrhd so high
the money is driving the program rather than a plan
we imagine something is going on and it doesn't seem clear
waiting for money to come and then go back to the plan; seems backwards to us who live there
our group, represent 140 households, over 200 residents; aware cricket players voted against
Dave Lust and Robt Barr are Prez and VP
they represent our nbrhd with 100% confidence
any claims of being obstructive and not willing to meet -- we want to meet, want to know what talking about
problems to solve, unclear of what the plan is
to remind, the nbrs, right or wrong feel shunted aside
feel being ignored by .....
most of the hockey players are not WV residents
if you lived in nbrhd can you imagine lights, buses, bleachers,
cemetery quiet will be
were upset and anxious feels like the train is moving to roll over us
CAO: we wd like nothing more for the nbrhd not to be frustrated
if there was artificial on 1 and 2, regarding 3 and 4, improvement to clubhouse, 5, ....... potential access to hwy
while bunch...  lot of speculation.... what tied to what... come back to money
cmnty and society; wd be plsd to share with you what we have, a sketchy as it is
clear picture from Ministry and ....
if you want to meet before that info, wd be delighted

Derrick Hawkins: surprised to note in most recent Tidings proposed to change parking from nose in to back in
speaking to cclrs, they were surprised to learn of this.....
did one-hour survey this morning; responses from 16 ppl; all in favour of retaining head-in
the 17th person had a contrary opinion; only b/c not prepared to sign it
was v encouraged by the v high percentage of support
merits of my position .... tonight when I found myself backing up .....
know lighting but not adequate for that
BD: Mr Hawkins and I spoke earlier today
the recommendation was arrived at at a cmnty mtg last summer
where we discussed ppl reversing out into the through lane
answer and backed up in Safety Guide; reversing out more obscured
City of New Westminster has........ have some data
RD: went down and checked, rec'd call from Mr Hawkins today
go ahead or hold off wrt back in?
BD: intent is to implement reverse in parking as suggested by the ICBC document
wd be happy to get the documentation
RD: I was concerned with Lower Bellevue; angle parking on N side replaced by parallel, reduce to five from eight spaces, understand we're going to be delaying
one possible soln, is that if successful on Upper Bellevue, then expand to Lower
afraid ppl not able to be able to back into; think more fender benders
more I looked at it, Lower Bellevue more serious b/c of traffic going over rlwy tracks
....struck me as even more serious
take it we'll be looking closely
MS: was it the consensus of the WG, liaison with residents, .....etc
BD: yes
CAO: this is the dilemma, if you can't back into a space, shd we encourage you to back out????

{exactly! best riposte of the evening}

RD: my concern; willing to try
Mayor: going to try back in on Upper Bellevue; seems to work fine; angle parking works better
Cclr S's question, what prob are we trying to solve?
BD: accident stats I have for 2004/5, isn't a high crash area in L or U Bellevue; intent was to make UB as safe as possible and ICBC endorses that
DH: accept the objective to make it safe; believe what we have now is the safer of the two alternatives

Ray Richards: a promise made is a promise broken when it comes to the cmnty satisfaction survey
Qs were to have been made av to groups prior to comment on prior to the survey being undertaken.
This was not done, I wonder why it was not done.
Mayor: believe it was
CAO: have provided to cmnty groups; hv bn some responses, believe some say not afforded enough time
RR: I believe the survey went out before the questions were supplied to the cmnty groups; wasn't an opportunity to reply before the survey went out
CAO: Survey Company told, process was to contact residents then forward the surveys out; in a limited number of cases, the surveys were actually forwarded that same week; when we found out, we contacted them and asked them to hold up on sending any surveys out
and they indicated if any changes, wd follow up with any already sent out
in most cases, responses received to date and from F&A cmte; indicate follow-up survey on budget, tax, and user fees; doing that some time later this year
RR: Next question: why on earth the taxpayers being asked to subsidize commercial prop owners
is it b/c the Planning Empire has nothing better to do than to work for the comm prop owners to build a data base in order to assist them in obtaining tenants?
Mayor: our ratio wrt comm taxation is best in region; Fraser Institute commended us for that
RR: my question not on taxation but the survey of property to provide rental assistance to the comm prop owners
why aren't commercial prop owners paying for this themselves?
Ch of Comm or Real Estate ppl shd be doing it; they shd be looking at this without any taxpayers or employees doing it; why do we have to do this?
you try to have us believe that you're trying to reduce expenditures; I suggest you stop this unnec expenditure immediately, and let comm prop owners look after themselves; why can't they do that?
Mayor: not sure if answering questionnaire, or objecting to the question, or if you're objecting to...
not sure if question has to do with--
RR: The District is advertising that it's doing a comm prop rental survey and compiling a data base for that, so that they can have rental space for these props come Olympics or whatever; it's been in the newspapers
CAO: I have no idea what Mr Richards is talking about, unless any other staff
Mayor: it may have to do with the Games client proposal
KP: yes; will come back to you with this information; I can't answer clearly about this right now; yes has been happening
RR: third question: traffic on Dund Lane, two-way, and talking about apt bldg on 24th and M
certainly more eastbound traffic between 24th and 23rd; lane kids ride bikes on
not one that needs more traffic
worked perfectly well with westbound for years; worked fine
if back in parking is so good, why in cmnty ctr all signs, don't back in
along Bellevue, 'don't back in'; now saying back in now safer
RD: not Lower Bellevue, it's Upper
CAO: point of clarification. Mr Richards may be referring to areas in the underground parking where there is venting or obstructions therefore we don't want ppl to back in and damage their cars.

Mayor:  Anyone else?
CR: Thank you. I wasn't going to speak so I didn't sign up; some of the things about process I hope you will consider
To do with the Dundarave Parking, I too was surprised to see it, but I wd suggest that as a part of process that when the final plan had come, instead of just being announced it was being put in, it shd hv come to Ccl, and then perhaps Mr Dozzi and others wd hv an opp to explain the rationale to reassure some ppl
I'm not saying I have an opinion one way or the other on it, but if you have process and you're wanting to inform the public, you wd probably have fewer ppl upset if your reasons, and when it comes to the final, were be brought out b/c we saw that with the Hugo Ray Park.  There were all those questions.
And even if you can say to them there isn't any information, at least you've done it [replied that is, with the status]
I also, and I thank Cclr Vaughan for talking about heritage, and I feel v strongly about having to have a process in place
and one of the examples was that someone had done some work on the roads in front of St Francis-in-the-Wood and at that time, this came to the Lower Caulfeild Adv Cmte
it was suggested that there be more communication among staff and depts to have a list of the heritage places, and for example that that was the LC conservation area, so that v well intentioned sincere staff ppl who think they're doing something good for an area when they aren't aware that it's affecting the heritage [aspect]
so I really urge that you have a process in place that perhaps any application whether it's for demolition or subdivision or any change go to the Heritage staff and to the H WG
there are other things, I'm not going to take the time now, but right now the most desperate need
b/c we've just lost two things b/c of demolition and they [heritage groups] didn't know about in time
pls institute something so that the heritage ppl find out about demolitions and subdivisions asap
the next thing brought up, wrt the questions for the [cmnty questionnaire] survey
I listened with interest to Mr Richards and to Mr Stuart
it is true that we were told we wd get them in advance
when the Amb/Dund Ratepayers group got it (and I got it); the first thing I did was try to find out how much time we had, but I heard from some cclrs that the questions were already being asked (of the) public
so of course that looks as if there really isn't any time to have a meaningful recommendation or comment
they also were supposed to come in draft form, I was told, to the Oct 16 [F&A] mtg so I thought that still wd be enough time, but the Oct 16th Finance & Audit Cmte mtg was cancelled as was the one tomorrow so I was surprised to hear Mr Stuart saying they had replied
they must have done it in private correspondence or something b/c it was supposed to come to F&A and it has not come to F&A, so I think that has to be straightened out as to have the draft given in enough time, and give a time line so there's time for input
if there's going to be a follow-up one, and that's good to hear, then cd we pls have a time line of when you wd like [it back], what you're thinking of doing in the follow-up, how much time we have,...  I suggest a week, if that's not too much, if you've got so many busy ppl
if you give ppl a week to respond that shd be enough, but pls give them to us
I got them and I appreciate that, but when I heard that it was already being asked, thought there wasn't any point in replying, so I thank you [for] being given them, but pls in future give them with a timeline of when to answer
CAO: we'll be providing more time for the next version, and that's been some of the difficulty
we had intended to get it in front of the FAC, but instead what we did was provide them, as we did with the cmnty groups, the survey questions to the indiv mbrs of the FAC and asked them to email us.
Mayor: Many ppl turned that around v quickly and said here's my comments, so it did work for some.
The other thing to bear in mind is I think the purpose was to find out what questions [we shd] be asking that we hadn't thought of, but since we've used a professionally put together survey by a professional survey company and there's a lot of obvious thought and philosophy that goes into that as well.
CR: right; but I mean I looked at the first question and it said "what do you think of the services?" {only one answer possible for all!} library, parks, rec, fire, police, [ie, space for one answer for] the whole list
that's almost a meaningless question b/c ... they're all great, yes you can say they're all great, but really you wd want something a little more designated than that
Mayor: this survey goes into so much more than any one before but we chose to keep the same questions historically, b/c we use that as a comparison, but we wd agree with you
CR: you need more information than that, but anyway I wanted to thank you for at least the attempt; if we have a timeline next time we wd hope to be more helpful
and again, tyvm for the civic reception on Friday night

Mayor: nice to see you there -- adjournment?
oh, one more person wants to speak, sorry no more names on the list
Man: one of my nbrs had forwarded some correspondence; was there, now it's gone; from Don Robertson; love to know what he's sharing; his views unfortunately are not that collective of his immediate nbrs within Esker Lane, me being one of them; love to know where that got to
Mayor: is it on our agenda this evening or is it on the next?
KP, Dir/Parks:  This is my reply to Mr Robertson who is Chair of the Esker Lane Strata Ccl; and yes, it's on the agenda: Item 14 under Correspondence
Mayor: yes, there's your response and his letter; part of the public agenda
Man: thank you

Brent Dozzi: wrt Dundarave Lane that report did come back to Ccl last November 8th, in advance of that report the biz assn and the ratepayers' assn were notified
SSch: sorry, we didn't get the speaker's name
Ans: Craig Turner.
12.       ADJOURNMENT  9:24
=== WV Ccl WORKSHOP AGENDA Oct 29th ===
=B7        Rodgers Creek Area Plan Working Group - Work Program Status
=B7        Draft Rodgers Creek Area Development Plan - Overview Report dated October 4, 2007 (Summary Presentation)
=B7        M. Rosen, Working Group Vice-Chair regarding Observations on the Draft Overview Report and Area Planning

2007 October 16 -- the germ was in an email I sent to the Mayor of West Vancouver (when reading, pause between the second and third line).

        sometimes ideas, like seeds,
                        fall to sterile ground . . . . .
                                        on a windless day


...first, one from Dr Mardy Grothe (www.chiasmus.com):
On October 31, 1993, Federico Fellini died in Rome at age 73.  [He was felled] by a massive heart attack one day after his 50th wedding anniversary (his wife died six months later).  Fellini was born in an Italian resort town on the Adriatic Sea and showed an early talent for drawing.  He moved to Florence at age 18, where he drew caricatures in local restaurants, did science fiction illustrations, edited a satirical magazine, and wrote radio scripts.  He joined the developing Italian film industry after WWII and eventually became one of Italy's most celebrated filmmakers, producing such classics as "La Dolce Vita" and "8 1/2".  On October 30, 1943, he and Italian actress Giulietta Masina married, beginning a romantic and creative partnership that lasted half a century.  In an extraordinary metaphorical observation, Fellini captured the magic of growing old with one very special person:

  "When you live with another person for fifty years,
   all of your memories are invested in that person,
   like a bank account of shared memories.
   It's not that you refer to them constantly.
   In fact, for people who do not live in the past,
   you almost never say, "Do you remember that night we . . .?"
   But you don=92t have to.  That is the best of all.
   You know that the other person does remember.
   Thus, the past is part of the present as long as the other person lives.
   It is better than any scrapbook, because you are both living scrapbooks."

Niels Bohr (1885-1962) was a Danish physicist who made fundamental contributions to understanding atomic structure and quantum mechanics. Bohr is widely considered one of the greatest physicists of the twentieth century...
Danish - en ekspert er en person, som har beg=E5et alle de fejl, som det er muligt at beg=E5 inden for et begr=E6nset omr=E5de
English - an expert is a man who has made all the mistakes which can be made in a very narrow field

Carl Jung (1875 - 1961): Everything that irritates us about other can lead us to an understanding of ourselves.

Cyril Connolly (1903 - 1974):
Our memories are card indexes -- consulted, and then put back in disorder, by authorities whom we do not control.
Sigmund Freud (1856 - 1939):
Poets...are masters of us ordinary men in knowledge of the mind because they drink at streams which we have not yet made accessible to science.