Ccl NOTES Oct 29
Calendar to Nov 20

by Carolanne Reynolds, Editor

HERITAGE ALERT:  an Erickson-designed home (end of Isleview) on an 'unbuildable' lot to be demolished; renowned architectural gem -- let's try to save, please HELP! (below, at end, see background and contact info; see photos  at   http://www.arthurerickson.com/H_grah.html ).
=  MAIN ITEMS Ccl Mtg Nov 5: Veterans' Week; Prov Electoral Boundary Readjustments opposed; Cmnty Ctr Quarterly Update and Parking; Correspondence on Hugo Ray Park, Dundarave Traffic/Parking,...
=  Vive le Canada; (Royal Cdn Legion); BOOKWATCH (More on View Through the Trees plus Dord, Diglot); INFObit (Halloween); gRUMBLES (acronyms); CALENDAR to Nov 20th; Mayor's Remarks at Civic Reception
=  Oct 29th Ccl's Rodgers Crk Workshop NOTES [NB: Next mtg Nov 8, already on Cmnty Calendar!]
AGENDA Nov 5th; FAQs (acronyms revealed); More on Erickson's Graham house; Tanka; Quotations; Subscribe

=== VIVE LE CANADA -- November 1 to 11 -- dedicated to our local Royal Canadian Legion, Branch 60
==  Nov 1, 2, 3 - Poppy Tag Days
Legion Branch 60 veterans and members will be stationed throughout West Vancouver with Poppy Donation Trays. Poppy Trays will also be in select local merchant locations until after Remembrance Day.  The Poppy Campaign is a major source of funds used to assist veterans, ex-service people, and their dependants. For more information about Poppy Campaign Funds, please see http://www.westvan60.com/poppy/poppytrust.html
== Nov 3 Saturday  ~ 6:30pm ~  Canada Remembers 'Salute to Veterans'
The CFL's BC Lions half-time show will honour veterans. A parade, including veterans, cadets, Canadian Forces personnel, and bands will take place on the field during half-time.  BC Place Stadium.
== Nov 4 Sunday ~ 2pm ~ Capilano View Cemetery Service
Branch 60 members and the general public are invited to attend this service which honours all veterans buried at Capilano View Cemetery, 1490 Third Street To view pictures of last year's service, please see http://westvan60.com/Gallery/albums.php?set_albumListPage=2  All those attending the service are invited to a reception afterwards at Branch 60's upper level Memorial Hall.
==  LEST WE FORGET -- Veterans' Week , Nov 5 to 11
Each year, Canada marks Veterans' Week. Veterans' Week is a time to honour and remember all those who served Canada in times of war, military conflict, and peace. Throughout the week, commemorative events and activities will be held in communities across Canada.
This year, we call upon all Canadians, especially youth, to take an active role in commemoration. Taking part in remembrance events develops a deeper understanding of the sacrifices and achievements of those who have served and continue to serve our country. As Canadians, we have endless opportunities to become involved in remembrance. We can talk to a veteran, visit a local cenotaph or monument, read a book, or attend a Remembrance Day ceremony.
When we take an active role in commemoration we become part of a legacy of remembrance and gratitude. We also set an example for future generations so that the torch of remembrance continues to burn brightly.
== Nov 5 Monday ~ 7pm ~ West Van Council Meeting (MHall) - Veterans' Week
RCL Branch 60 President Valerie MacGregor will be taking part in the Dedication of Veterans' Week Ceremony.
== Nov 7 Wednesday ~ 7pm ~ A Film for Remembrance Day - FREE  (sponsored by the Library)
"JOYEUX NOEL" will be shown at the WV Memorial Library. It is the true-life story of the spontaneous 1914 Christmas Eve truce declared by Scottish, French, and German troops in the trenches of World War I. Enemies leave their weapons behind for one night as they band together in brotherhood and forget about the brutalities of war. Academy Award Nominee -- Best Foreign Film. In English/French/German with English subtitles. Rating: PG, violence; sexually suggestive scene; nudity. This is a free event. No registration is required.
= Nov 11 Sunday
~ 11am ~ Remembrance Day Service -- The parade steps off at 18th & Marine at 10:40am. 
All veterans are invited to march. The service is held in front of the WV Cenotaph, across from the Library on Marine Drive. Reception to follow at the Library and at Branch 60's upper level Memorial Hall. Everyone welcome.
~ 12:30 - 4:30pm ~ Remembrance Day Entertainer
The entertainer for Remembrance Day is Gwen Gouchee with Bob on keyboard in the Members' Lounge.  Come and enjoy her Remembrance Day Show:  "We'll Meet Again", a special nostalgic celebration of Remembrance Day through the most wonderful and touching songs made famous by Vera Lynn and other artists during the WW I & II years.  For more info about Gwen Gouchee please visit her website http://www.gwensinger.ca/home.shtml
>>>  NOVEMBER 16 = ; -- Deadline for Entries 
Annual Poster and Literary Remembrance Contest - http://www.westvan60.com/poppy/poppycontest.html
~ 2 - 4pm ~ Saturday Nov 3rd at the Library "West Vancouver: A View Through the Trees" by Elspeth Bradbury.  Elspeth will talk about her long-awaited book on the history of the forests of West Vancouver.  Books are $45; proceeds go to the Lighthouse Park Preservation Society.  Enquiries to environment@westvancouver.ca -- it's an elegant book with beautiful photographs.  She speaks Nov 17 at the Museum (see Calendar below).
* OCTOBER 30 BOOK RELEASE: Author's Announcement {and note, the blurb on back cover is corrected here}
The Dord, the Diglot, and an Avocado or Two:
The Hidden Lives and Strange Origins of Common and Not-So-Common Words
You can buy it in bookstores in more than two dozen countries:  Other countries: Amazon.com
Happy reading!
What could a senator, a Muppet, an advice columnist, and a baseball player all have in common? What is one word that describes Bob Dole, Elmo, Miss Manners, and Ozzie Smith?
They all are illeists.
An illeist is one who refers to himself in the third person (for example: "Miss Manners does not condone ...") and it's one of the words discussed in my new book, released today:
ISBN 9780452288614
This book is published by the Penguin Group and it features stories about words and their origins -- all true stories. You'll learn what the word cantaloupe has to do with the pope, what word is coined after Socrates's wife, and what a wellerism is. Find it in your local bookstore, neighbourhood library, or online at Amazon.com.
I'm told it would make a fine gift as well.
I hope you enjoy it. I'm looking forward to your feedback.  -Anu Garg (words-at-wordsmith.org)
{Remember 32 Books (980 9032) in Edgemont Village already has it.  And no, although I was involved in the book it was pro bono.}

===  INFObit -- History of Halloween (thanks to Kerrygold)
The word "Halloween"= ; originates from the Roman Catholic Church as a corruption of "All Hallows Eve". November the first is a day of observance in honour of saints, named "All Hallows Day" (or All Saints Day). In the fifth century BC in Celtic Ireland, summer officially ended on October 31st.
On 31st October, the disembodied spirits of all those who had died throughout the preceding year would come back in search of living bodies to possess for the next year. It was believed that it was their only hope for the afterlife. The Celts believed all laws of space and time were suspended during this time, allowing the spirit world to intermingle with the living.
Naturally, the living did not want to be possessed, so on the night of October 31st, villagers would extinguish the fires in their homes to make them cold and undesirable. They would then dress up in all kinds of ghoulish costumes and noisily parade around the village, being as destructive as possible in order to frighten away spirits looking for bodies to possess. Maybe a better explanation of why the Celts put out their fires was not to discourage spirit possessions, but so that all the Celtic tribes could relight their fires from a common source, the Druidic fire that was kept burning in the middle of Ireland, at Usinach.
=== gRUMBLES [See FAQs/Language, = at end]
Are you perplexed and puzzled by acronyms?
Do you feel reading WVM is like eating soup with a slotted spoon?
===  CALENDAR to Nov 20th  === [M Hall unless otherwise noted; confirm b/c sometimes changes]

==  Tuesday Nov 6th ~ 5:30pm ~ The tenth annual Baha'i award for Unity in Diversity at the Library
==  Wednesday Nov 7th   ~ 10am ~ Cmnty Engagement Cmte
                ~ 6pm ~ Cmnty Ctr Governance WG at Srs' Ctr
==  Thursday Nov 8th ~ 5:30pm ~ Rodgers Creek WG
{Impressive.  Not only that date changed b/c of Streamkeepers' mtg on Nov 15th, but already on the Cmnty Calendar -- thanks to Cclr Rod Day and staff Geri Boyle; moreso b/c unlike Cclrs JF and Sop who actually are on the CEC that drew up the WG guidelines and their mtgs or notes not all on DWV website.}
==  Sunday Nov 11th * Remembrance Day Services 10:45am across from Library
~ 2:30pm ~ New World and Remembrance with the Vancouver Youth Symphony Orchestra at KMC
In honour of Remembrance Day the orchestra will perform Nimrod, from Elgar's Enigma Variations, Bach's Sheep May Safely Graze, and Samuel Barber's ever beautiful Adagio for Strings. This concert programme will open with Academic Festival Overture by Brahms and close with the Dvorak favourite, Symphony No. 9 from the New World. Come and celebrate the exciting start of a bright new VYSO season and share with us, a Remembrance Day reflection through music. Concert admission by donation.
==  Monday Nov 12th -- Khahtsahlano Road Race ~ 7:50 - 11am, HBay to Park Royal
==  Tuesday Nov 13th -- Cmnty Grants/Soc Services WG ~ 7pm
==  Thursday Nov 15th
        ~ 4:30pm ~ Heritage Strategic Plan Implementation WG
        ~ 7pm ~ NSh Family Court & Youth Justice Cmte at CNV M Hall
~ 7:30pm ~ WV Streamkeepers: Public Mtg at St Stephen's (agenda in next issue)
==  Friday Nov 16th -- Arts & Culture Strategy ~ 8:45am
==  Saturday Nov 17th ~ 1:30 - 3pm at the Museum
Please join Elspeth Bradbury, the author of recently published book, West Vancouver: A View Through the Trees, who will describe the relationship between plants and people through 10,000 years of co-evolution.  West Vancouver has been blessed with magnificent natural surroundings. Above all, it is the forest that has shaped the community's history that colours its present and challenges its future.
==  Sunday Nov 18th -- WV Cmnty Ctr & Srs' Craft Market ~ 10am - 3pm at Srs' Ctr

--  Landscapes -- Nov 6 - 25 -- Lynne Greene, Peter Langer, Leslie McGuffin, Barbara Wilson
        Opening Night: 6 - 8pm Nov 6; Artists in Attendance:  2 - 3pm Nov 10

+++  WV MEMORIAL LIBRARY +++ see www.westvanlib.ca for more!
Saturday 3  "West Vancouver: A View Through the Trees" by Elspeth Bradbury b  2 - 4pm
   LPPS mtg -- Elspeth talks about her book!
Sunday 4    Walking the Camino de Santiago: 1 - 3pm
   Explore ancient Spain's pilgrimage route with Bethan Davies and Ben Cole, authors of Walking the Camino de Santiago.
Tuesday 6    Reading James Joyce's Ulysses: 10:30am - 12:30pm (AND Nov 20)
   Please bring your own copy of the novel. Drop in; no registration required.
Wednesday 7   Remembrance Day Film: Joyeux Noel 7pm
   A true-life story of the spontaneous Christmas Eve truce declared by Scottish, French, & German troops in the trenches of World War I.
Friday 9    Teen Movie Night: 6:30 - 8:30pm  To register, phone 925 7408. Space is limited.
Thursday 15 DOC.TALKS: Supersize Me:  6:30pm
   Morgan Spurlock embarks on a journey to find out if fast food is making Americans fat in this documentary.

+++  WV MUSEUM +++   BEHIND THE WIRE -- Nov 7 to Feb 9 
[Full description in previous issue of WVM]
Guest Speaker Series
=  Wednesday 7 - 9pm November 7 -- Behind the Wire Exhibit Opening and Reception
Special Guest: Katy Hedalen, Vocalist performs We'll Meet Again
We'll Meet Again, composed by Ross Parker and lyrics by Hughie Charles was popularized by British singer Vera Lynn during World War II. The song resonated with soldiers who were going off to war leaving their loved ones behind. West Vancouver soprano singer Katy Hedalen sings We'll Meet Again as a special tribute to those who served and dedicated their lives.
=  Wednesday 7 - 8:30pm November 14
Guest speaker: Major Harjit Sajjan, Reservist, British Columbia Regiment, Reconnaissance Squadron
Topic: The Canadian Forces in Afghanistan Protecting Canadians -- Rebuilding Afghanistan
Major Harjit Saijan, a Reservist with the British Columbia Regiment where he is Officer Commanding, Reconnaissance Squadron, served in Afghanistan in 2006 under Brigadier General David Fraser, Commander of the Multi-National Brigade. Major Sajjan shares his personal experiences and discusses the Canadian Forces contribution in Afghanistan.

+++  WV ARTS COUNCIL +++ visit www.silkpurse.ca for more events (most ticketed)
Tuesday, November 6 - Sunday, November 18, 2007
'Woman - A Visual Journal'
The human figure has been revered as a symbol for perfection since the time of the Ancient Greeks, who modeled their gods in our image. In celebration of what it means to be a woman, join us for an exhibition of pencil and watercolour drawings of women by artist Pat Rafferty, who is devoted to a better understanding of the elements that make up the human figure and how to better portray them.
Opening: Tuesday, November 6 from 6-8 pm

--->  For events at KMC, see www.kaymeekcentre.com

        2007 West Vancouver Emergency Services Toy Drive  --  November 5th - December 15, 2007

===  OUR CIVIC PARTY: Mayor's Remarks   ===
= * Our Civic Party * West Vancouver Memorial Library * 2007 October 19 *
Mayor Pamela Goldsmith-Jones's Remarks
     Good evening.  Tonight is one of the best nights of the year in West Vancouver, in one of the best venues in West Vancouver.  There is increasingly stiff competition between our other public places though - the Kay Meek Centre and the Gleneagles Community Centre, and the new Community Centre are testaments to the value we as citizens place on the public realm, to the natural impulse we have to come together as a community, and to the sense of connectedness and joy we feel when our public values and our private values line up.
     It is our pleasure as a Council to be your hosts.  We are thrilled that so many of you could come tonight, so that we may publicly convey our deep respect and gratitude for your commitment to the community.  And, so that all of us may celebrate together your leadership and the success of so many ideas and initiatives that are the essence of West Vancouver.
     Tonight's party is part of a long standing tradition in West Vancouver.  The budget for this has of course not increased in decades - less is more are words to live by - but the breadth of interests and the depth of commitment to the community continues to flourish.
     It is a real challenge to thank hundreds of people in a way that is interesting, that demonstrates the range of what's going on in West Vancouver, that recognizes politicians, and that is short and to the point! 
     As a measure of the ongoing history that we value, and that we are part of creating, it is a pleasure for me to recognize former Mayor Ron Wood, along with former Councillors Russ Fraser and Liz Byrd.  {The Mayor later apologized for omitting Carolanne Reynolds, another former councillor who was in attendance.}
     Speaking on behalf of the current Council, it is not an exaggeration to say that the reward for our commitment comes in large part from the time we spend working with you.  The great gift of the local level of government is that you're dealing direct - sometimes a little too direct.  There is every opportunity to connect, and to make the most of the community talent that is so freely given.
      When I think of the six Councillors I am privileged to work with, all kinds of images come to mind - mostly about their unique points of view and their passion for the public interest.  Often difficult to predict, you work with them intimately, you know how they vote, you push them, and you motivate them, and so you'll know who I'm talking about when I introduce them.
= "I am sick and tired of the nanny state that governs every single little thing in West Vancouver, but I am only too willing to tackle childcare and maybe see if we could get a wine bar somewhere in Ambleside=8A" representing children and a good time, Councillor Mike Smith.
= "As I was thinking about the character of the community, and the fact that we don't have enough controls, and who uses a stack of post-it-notes per Council meeting=8A" representing the value of doing your homework and being prepared, Councillor Vivian Vaughan.
= "Man, these working groups are great.  They are so great, I sit on four of them -  and I still have time to come and look at the 4" encroachment issue that is coming to Council next Monday=8A" representing the grass roots, Councillor Bill Soprovich.
= "You know, the little things are just as important as the big things.  Walking the dog in peace, parking spots close to the beach, caring for our heritage, supporting small business, sorting out my daytimer during a Council meeting=8A" representing small is beautiful, and attention to detail, Councillor Rod Day.
= "Someone has got to speak up for seniors, for the arts, for housing needs, and for the fact that our little village in Ambleside can accomplish all that with a little vision and a little courage, and is my eye rolling helping me to make my point?=8A" representing the willingness to tackle the tough issues and keep smiling, Councillor Jeanie Ferguson.
= "Out of a multi-million dollar budget there is no way you can tell me you can't find another one million to cut, as long as I can reserve the right to ask for an extra $10,000 for fireworks on short notice=8A" representing fiscal prudence, and a drop-in centre on Bellevue for the latest in what's going on, Councillor John Clark.
Councillor Clark is not feeling well tonight, and he sends his best wishes, and we hope he will be back in fine form at Council on Monday.
     As well, you've managed to attract both of our MLAs, Joan McIntyre and Ralph Sultan, our MP Blair Wilson, and the Board of Education, formerly known as the School Board -- such is your star power, or perhaps your ability to get out the vote on election day, or both!
     Our hope for you, tonight, is that you enjoy the company of fellow leaders, that you connect with an old friend or a new ally, and that you rekindle within yourselves the incredible sense of reward that comes from contributing so much to West Van.
     For a snapshot of what the greater good looks like, here is the lineup of all that is represented here tonight:
the Board of Variance, the British Properties Homeowners Association, and the Heritage Strategy Working Group; the Ambleside Plan Working Group, the Squamish Nation Caring for Our Youth Committee, and the Rotary Club; The Arts and Culture Working Group, the Western Residents' Association, and the Community  Day Committee; the Community Dialogue on Neighbourhood Character and Housing, the Kiwanis Club, and the Design Review Committee; the Environmental Strategy Working Group, the Council Remuneration Task Force, and the Howe Sound Lions Club; the Community Engagement Committee, the Altamont Community Association, and the Friends of the Ferry Building Gallery; the Gleneagles Community Centre Advisory Committee, the Youth Police Advisory Committee, and the Coho Society; the Child Care Working Group, the Harmony Arts Advisory Committee, and the Library Board; the Rodgers Creek Area Plan Working Group, the Royal Canadian Legion Branch 60, and the North Shore Spirit Committee; Parent Advisory Council Chairs, the Friends of the Library, and the Lower Caulfeild Advisory Committee; the North Shore Family Court and Youth Justice Committee, the Library Foundation, and the School Traffic Safety Advisory Committee; the Seniors' Centre Advisory Board, the Hugo Ray Park Society, and the Old Growth Conservancy; the Kiwanis Tribute Tree Program, the Library's Teen Advisory Group, and the WinterSong Festival Board; the Sports Advisory Forum, the West Vancouver Chamber of Commerce, and the Friends of Cypress Provincial Park; West Van Streamkeepers, the Community Services Working Group, and the Horseshoe Bay Residents' Association; the Finance and Audit Committee, the West Van Shoreline Preservation Society, and the Community Services Working Group; individual sponsors for the arts and the environment, the Community Centre Governance Working Group, and the Ambleside and Dundarave Ratepayers; the Police Board, the North Shore Wetland Partners, and our Youth Advisory Committee; Police Department volunteers for Speed Watch, Graffiti Watch, Business Watch and Victims Services, and the Retired Firefighters Museum and Archives Society; the Kay Meek Arts Centre Trust Board, and the Heritage Strategy Working Group; the Community Tourism Foundations Working Group and of course, the Ambleside and Tiddlycove Lions Club.
     It boggles the mind to realize that all of this goes on, week in week out.  Many, many more volunteers than we could accommodate here are the strength behind these efforts.
     It is the tenth anniversary of the Unity in Diversity Awards in West Vancouver this year, which are awarded in recognition of an individual or organization who has made a significant contribution to promoting greater understanding, respect, and unity between diverse groups.
     Some of the award winners for the past ten years are here tonight, and we are privileged to work with them and to recognize that tolerance is a daily quest, pursued with singular passion by these past winners:
Mr. Harold Rosen, Dr. Geoff Jopson from the School District, Richard Berg from the Harmony Arts Festival, Peter Chisholm from the Ambleside Youth Centre, the West Van Memorial Library, a former principal of Irwin Park Elementary, Phyllis Scott of the International Federation of University Women, Doug McAulay from the WV Youth Band, Maryl Stewart from Sentinel, Corporal Fred Harding and Doris Paul from the Caring for Our Youth Committee, John Neumann from the North Shore Disability Resource Centre, and Harold Linke who donated the German Friendship Globe.
     The other significant piece of our community fabric is of course, our staff.  We are most fortunate to live in a place where the residents know the staff by name, and consider them their partners in achieving so much more than the basic delivery of services.  The people who work alongside you have an unshakeable commitment to public service.  They value your experience and knowledge of the community, and they appreciate the challenge of working with such highly motivated residents!
     On a more personal note, today is the last day in a whirlwind almost two years, that Meghan McQuaid will [have been] working with us as my assistant.  She has been a huge asset to our team, has worked exceedingly hard with all of you, and as a testament to all of that, has been lured away by the Executive Offices at Vanoc.  Thank you, Meghan, for defining community service.
     Please join me in drinking a toast to our staff.  To the staff!
     Thank you to the Courtenay Ennis Trio - Darren Radke, Ross Taggart, and Courtney Ennis are among the finest musicians in the region, and their roots are from the North Shore, and to West Van Florist for the unbelievable generosity they continually extend towards this event.  The library staff also deserve special recognition because they were still checking out books at 5 o'clock, and yet here we are.
     Tonight, we are going to be treated to a command performance by Aryo Nazaradeh*.  I first heard Aryo play last year at a Vancouver Youth Symphony concert at the Kay Meek Centre.  Aryo has been playing the violin since he was two.  At three years old he performed at the Queen Elizabeth Theatre with composer and violinist Bijan Mortazavi.  That tour took them to a performance at London's Royal Albert Hall.
     Better still, Aryo goes to Pauline Johnson and he is playing at the West Vancouver Memorial Library tonight.  Aryo will perform "Winter" from Vivaldi's Four Seasons.
--  Aryo's performance --
The beat goes on by the Courtenay Ennis Trio, please enjoy the rest of the evening, and as I like to say every year=8A.only in West Vancouver is all the action on a Friday night at the library!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------* Aryo is 11 years old.

 ===  Ccl's RODGERS CRK WORKSHOP NOTES Oct 29th ===
Mayor: pleasure to be joined at Ccl table with mbrs of the Rodgers Crk Area WG; will ask Michael Rosen to facilitate the mtg
MR: thank you, Madam Mayor.  Can I call you Pam?
Mayor: sure
MR: go round -- you have name tags; talk about yourself, let everyone know who you are:
BW: Brian Walker, Dayton & Knight, we're consulting engineers
HK: Harold Kalke, volunteer on this group
{v interesting evasiveness; he's a developer, president and owner of Kalico Developments Ltd., a real estate development and investment company; also known for Capers on Fourth and 'green' devts.}
JB: Jennifer Bailey [cdn't hear what she said as description]
FM: Frank Musson, retired architect
Julia Rylands: National Research Ccl
[Then JF, VV, JC, and Mayor]
MR: Michael Rosen, I'm a Planning and Devt Consultant
RD: Rod Day, Ccl rep to the WG
Sop: Bill Soprovich, councillor
MS: Michael Smith, councillor
SJN: Steve Nicholls, Planning Director
Dean Mailey: I live in the community directly affected by this devt
{gasp!  only one a resident???}
Sheila Scholes: M Clk
JB: John Barker representing WV Streamkeepers
MR: Thank you all.  Presentation by Geri, walk us through plan; then we'll articulate our
then we'll have dialogue, important to have that with Ccl
we've met on a number occasions and talked about planning principles and policies
what wd Ccl find acceptable, where does Ccl stand on this matter
been asked to participate ant provide our perspective, not nec what Ccl is thinking
this is some of our observations
Ccl is made up of seven mbrs, with different views; ccl mbrs shd be speaking as individual ccl mbrs
there are no decisions or recommendations being made; simply an opp to have a dialogue; share with you some thoughts; still much to going the process; we'll be providing a recommendation to Ccl; tonight just opp to dialogue
=B7        Rodgers Creek Area Plan Working Group - Work Program Status
=B7        Draft Rodgers Creek Area Development Plan - Overview Report dated October 4, 2007 (Summary Presentation)
=B7        M. Rosen, Working Group Vice-Chair regarding Observations on the Draft Overview Report and Area Planning

Geri Boyle, Planning staff: run over the planning process
most of the ppl in the audience have seen this [black and white]
done by BPP and their consultants, done with staff; sieve analysis
WG established and began their work; drew up organizing principles -- they're on your desk
After first draft, there was an Open House wrt physical envmt; set of actions was presented
one of the results of OH, good feedback, hadn't paid enough attention to recreation so added that to our organizing principles
Starting to move toward finalizing; consultants working toward an area plan; result is what you have tonight and being reviewed
another Open House, toward the end of Nov, I expect that to happen
then we'll come back; finalizing the plan and bringing it back to Ccl; cd be a Town Hall mtg before going to bylaw; bylaws to prepare, then move ahead with devt, a separate process
that's in terms of where we are; overview, still more work to be done
My thanks to BPP for providing me a copy of their presentation
Focus today is Ccl and WG discussion; I'll give a brief overview of this particular report
first step after the Upper Lands Study of 2001; then OCP 2004; the WG and staff has to take some responsibility in this process, devt process
The slogan, the motto has been: Let the landscape inform the plan -- and that has been the driving force
steps; incorporating it into the plan
key feature is the mountain pathway (unifying element, opp to get around other than by car); future Cypress Village to the west, in talking stages -- played an important role in planning -- it's outside the RCrk planning area; proximity to amenities
looking at preservation and large conservation areas; 55% intended to stay green, of the ~200 acres, maybe up to 60%
recognizing land itself: five nbrhds, 2 to 6 (1 is Taylor's Lookout, not on this but BPP wanted to keep numbering
524 housing units, 20Ksf of retail and office space, 1.83Msf of Floor Area
possible 85 cmnty benefit housing units over and over the OCP maximum of 2.5upa; those are the hard facts

{hm. Do hope there's an explanation as the definition of cmnty benefit for an additional 85 housing units; it's obvious higher density is a financial benefit to the developer!!!}  

[slide] this drawing preliminary planning and conservation areas: first areas to build, yellow between, green is RAR (Riparian Area Regulations); no watercourses piped, remain flowing
Chippendale Road forms the southern boundary of these two nbrhds
both of these nodes hv sgl fam and multifam units, 69 units 1.37upa; transition area; compact housing; cluster housing on slopes; secondary trail system
Area 4 is called Mulgrave nbrhd and the school forms the southern boundary; largely sgl fam, has some duplex and triplex and a multifam
red bldg is mixed use, retail bottom; residential above; 133 units; this is the one area where...
five-acre prop owned by Roeck, and three five-acre units various owners but managed by one
trying to hv flexibility to expand Mulgrave school, have asked that plan try to provide for that
heading west, Area 5, now access from Upper Cypress Bowl Rd, have had to go around the Worksyard
efforts were made to find a connecting road out but topography not supporting that
161 units, in apt form, some townhouses; along south boundary of this area is the mtn pathway
Area 6 is Upper Village East: 161 units, two cmnty benefit sites: in total, proposed cd accommodate up to 85 units also includes cmnty benefit unit like the red bldg

{can't wait to find out what the cmnty benefit is!}

different guidelines for lowrise -- hint of what you'll find in overview
directions from OCP and WG, diversity of housing: 524 units, 20% of them sgl fam includes compact lots; OCP says no more than 40% sgl fam so more than met that policy of the OCP; 6% duplex and triplex, 14% townhomes, and 61% apartments
another way, of the 524 units, 39% ground-oriented housing, and 61% apt form
apts have an av size of 2400sf with 20% less than 1250sf
OCP: to build nbrhds
starts to create sense of place; along pathway, activity nodes
hope a wetland interpretation ctr after an area restored; include something wrt the ski heritage of the area b/c where the skiers used to go up
secondary route will connect to main path
this section will be forested and will come into Area 5, urban area, to views and these will be facilitated; intend a water feature
ideally a private cmnty facility; view Stanley Park and Jericho
sustainability - environmental, social, and economic
minimizing the environmental footprint
waste mgmt during construction; green bldgs for multifam, LEED system -- Silver is their target, REAP used at UBC; alternative heating, ground source; best mgmt practices in stormwater mgmt, a learning area
pathway a social element; cmnty amenity buildings; housing variety
Sop: Chippendale Connector has been altered
what is the impact of no decision on that road; when will that decision come forth; will have an impact on ev -- where are we on that and when decision? has to come to Ccl
GB: 1000ft Connector, shows connects down to Cypress Bowl Rd, not an engg road in the OCP
got translated into ability to put it in the ground; won't go into evolution of how arrived at that
trying to provide flexibility for Mulgrave School but retain for other possibilities
another objective: does road meet District's policy so it must satisfy our needs
tweaking to get to this plan but still haven't got to whether it will meet District's needs in the long term
this was prepared late August and ev else has flowed from this
through Sept/Oct staff has been looking at the issue; make sure we minimize that

Michael Rosen: glad you raised that; appears to be options quite diff
we were asked to make decisions re land use and we felt road had to be better understood
we said to owners you guys get together and work out something that works for all of you, work with staff; pleased to see something has come together on that issue
Just like Ccl, we are seven or eight indivs who share diff values and interests
essentially reflect a consensus; some issues some feel more strongly than others
my understanding where the group stands -- I may not get it right, so when finished I'll ask my colleagues, to make sure I have represented the views
I'm hoping listening you were excited and impressed
this plan is a major departure from BPP's approach in past; OCP, understanding land as its foundation; work done to determine what was developable and what cd be.
we were absolutely impressed by the depth of investigation to get to that point
we applaud it, think work great, recognize work in progress, pleased
impressed by collaboration between BPP and staff, and with our WG
our observations, BPP's been listening; we're happy, v pleased; no buts yet
some of the things that impress us:
~  mtn pathway and trail network -- want something that rivals the seawall; this pathway seems to do that, unifying feature, gonna tie the nbrhds together
not naive that ppl will leave their cars; hope use cars less, this area is still somewhat isolated, as an amenity, fantastic feature
~  width, 3 metres but that might not be wide enough, needs further investigation
~  Area 6 thought pathway cd be integrated into that nbrhd; bring it above Cypress Bowl Rd, the idea wd lead to the Village, ways to move around
Observations of subareas
Areas 2 and 3
fits in, talk with BPP; in advance of overall plan; we've taken position this cd proceed in advance of the overall plan; BPP some urgency to get going
Area 4
subject of much discussion; has the most sgl fam lots ...  [slide says unknown]  80% multifam; this area always jumped out at us; struggled b/c appeared to be impetus for sgl fam was from landownership and we maintained that shd not determine land use, the others shd (envmt, transportation), wanted to raise that for Ccl
plsd parties were able to work out Chippendale Connector with Mulgrave -- will they expand or not?  right now it's in limbo so we struggle with the overall landuse plan for this area
a plan tries to manage, not predict the future; maybe it has to anticipate both scenarios; wd like to know for certain; continue to encourage the parties to provide us with some certainties
Area 5
largely a multifam area with a mix of townhouses and apts; probably responded to terrain as best as possible
like higher densities b/c close to what was supposed to be the future village
thought it important to get as much density here as possible b/c next to village
Area 6
spent least amt of time; liked the cmnty benefit idea of Area 6
v important b/c of proximity to future Village; probably will spend more time thinking about this area
{rationale for increased density?}
spent a lot of time on HOUSING MIX
80% non sgl fam more than achieves OCP target of 60%, just thrilled with that
wrt multifam, 64 wch is a small percentage here are less than 1250 sq ft; asked ourselves, does this mix, where 20% of units are under 1250sf, look at the numbers, all the different degradations --  this is one area we spent a lot of time talking about
clearly aware of OCP, housing diversity, mix, housing varied in make-up
when you have units, many a large size, getting to a point, are these units going to in fact attract, cater,  to that mix of indivs that the OCP speaks to
OCP has a limitation or cap of 2.5upa; that's how on 200 acres, some 500 units proposed here
OCP doesn't speak to FAR or unit size, just establishes a cap for the units
so BPP is staying within that cap, but some v large units to get within 520-odd cap; and some of us think -- that's what OCP says and what BPP did and we shd try to work with them; others say hold it, that's what OCP says but is the way the 2.5upa being applied, is it achieving other criteria, social diversity reached; perhaps Ccl shd re-examine the limitations
is it achieving desired result
BPP has taken the position that 524 units cd generate 1.83M sf, does that really represent how FAR shd be used to achieve OCP, social, economic, sustainability diversity/values
Work in progress so more work needs to be done on sustainability; Geri talked about that
we've been talking about sustainability in macro levels, shd micro
how can we assure plan is going to be followed; mechanisms put in place; thinking beyond the area
Other Rodgers Issues: want to talk about the Village; all look forward to this, this magnet -- live full life up top and not have to go down to the bottom
btw I live on the bottom, and we're okay on the bottom
we seriously doubt that you're going to be able to achieve that kind of village under current OCP policy with 2.5upa
2.5upa, some say gotta live with that; another planning group for that area, start thinking about a new approach for the village area
some of the learned mbrs, using units per acre as a measure for controlling a density isn't nec'ly best way to create nbrhds
look at how much devt on mountainside, whether units with FARs, or some other way
2.5upa as driving force isn't likely to get us the kinds of nbrhd we want to create
ask my colleagues to correct me or add anything I may of missed in terms of observations
Jak [Redenbach] has just come in, the only other mbr of WG
[now all WG mbrs present; that's right, his first name is Jak, no C]
Now's time to talk a bit
Ccl, gave you some openings there -- density, housing mix, we'd like to engage Ccl in; but open to talk about anything and everything wrt Rodgers
[some quips about being quick]

--o--  Ccl and WG DISCUSSION]
Sop: this format proving to be extremely successful, taking citizens for a period of time to help out cmnty
can't tell you enough, volunteers, work put in to make cmnty better
if we looked at the density, and in close proximity we have Taylor's Lookout, Village, and area not included, how do you get a handle on the overall density -- in close proximity, in relation to cmnty benefits, impact to taxpayer if it went ahead
what are the reqs of the M and what the owners' responsibility
MR: in Area 6, what way cmnty benefit, that direction?
Sop: if the area where you want to have a village, there are certain amenities that village is going to have to have
why not include that in impact
those amenities borne by whom? the taxpayer
one of the starting forces
MR: your wanting to have planning for village same as ours but that's not our responsibility
what do we have to do in this plan to facilitate and enhance a village in the next plan
we think the densities as well as some of the amenities will do that
when and if planning for the village, disc about amenities, housing mix,
sure Ccl will make sure provided by the dvpr and know they expect to have to
JF: Area 4 has highest number of sgl fam homes and the reason was the landowners; I'm unclear as to the justification for this
MR: that's how it appeared to us; fair to say that terrain wd allow for sgl fam
the more gentler the terrain the more opp for sgl fam; as terrain more difficult then sites for multifam
JF: so not just owners, terrain?
MR: both, think staff felt similarly
Brian Walker: take exception to that; BPP's been wonderful but resistance by two other landowners to get in sync with what we're trying to achieve
flattest land no question about that, but think ownership is dictating sgl fam
objection I have is that b/c we're constrained by these 500 or so lots, what you see on those five-acre parcels there for v big lots, p59 in Area 4; the footprint wrt the whole, while its 20% sgl fam lots, it's 40% of the land that's cleared and I think you're going to have a visual eyesore there
not even benefit of having small lots; $1K per sq ft, av size about 3500sf, you're already talking $3 - 4M a pop, not a diverse cmnty
{think he means houses}
Harold Kalke: it bumps up against 2.5upa and if that's a req of OCP then that area's doing its job
Frank Musson: I was hoping it (sgl fam) wd blend into the whole area plan
if you look at p32, midrise apt bldg, these are if you like controlled bldgs; theme has illustrations, architectural character as you progress from area to area but no demonstration of that at all in the sgl fam area
control, then what we see in Properties, then control again and some character again
no direction; unfortunate don't see continuity from Area 2 and 3 to 6
MR: asked owners if they were prepared same scheme as BPP and there seemed to be an interest in proceeding in that direction, but think we have to have more dialogue with them for us to get to that comfort level
HK: wrt form and character; we have a proponent here, IMO, with deepest experience building on steep slopes; been here since 1932 building on hillsides
as I look at old properties, and come across Chippendale experience, then look at Whitby Estates, you start to see learning curve, starting to go up
recognize today the av sgl fam owner, all multifam, is not simply cutting up lots and hiring architects; hiring contractors on time and on budget too much for ppl to bear; so throughout North America seeing developers building it themselves
BPP has said to us v clearly, they're going to build whatever they're going to build -- what you see on the plan is what they're going to build, and that gives us some assurance that wrt form and character perspective there will be that learning curve brought to bear, and they're also dedicated to fitting bldgs onto the site in an envmtally sensitive kind of way, visual kind of way.

{let's stress the 'learning' curve; go look again -- removal of many trees and impervious surfaces are not as envmtally sensitive as some wd like; besides it may be b/c of Ccl's increased insistence on attention to the envmt has resulted in the 'learning'.  There was much disillusionment with the vaunted 'raingarden' in the Marr devt.}

I think that goes a long way to our WG to say thank God we have this proponent otherwise bldg by bldg, diff devpr, and have a mishmash
at that last mtg, Mike is correct, talk about character of entire site
JF: wrt upa as opposed to sq foot; interested in what your preference wd be?
what wd you hv suggested as a better way to go wrt planning?
HK: FAR method has certain advantages, density allowed; upa just drives unit size up
JF: more efficient
HK: more density; but it's important for me to say as a dvpr, there's ways to put density together that fits and that doesn't fit; so not just density; it's how you do it
JF: and your goals
HK: and how to see form and character rules are embedded so don't fall away, by engg, suddenly curbs where there shdn't be; Design Panel with decks
FM: 524 and 1.83M sqft somewhat arbitrary number
same size, keeping 1.83 you'd have 700 and wd better meet diversity

{will anyone explain why Ccl can't insist on diversity with the ~500 units?}

MR: involved in OCP some years ago, and some memory left; makes sense from point of view, how can you have devt on hillside and still maintain greensize?
how much land needed to be put together for 70 to 80 units, substantial so greenness around it
diversity vs sustainability
not nec diversity but does get green sites
JF: OCP isn't a zoning document it's a vision, what they want to build; maybe the 2.5upa is a...
doesn't achieve our overall goals
JR: the question you've asked opens the door; how you do planning and receive proposals
broader without 2.5upa, comprehensive strategy, leave it up to proponent to come up with something, a good idea, and let them sell what they think is a really good proposal and then reviewed on its merits, achieving diversity, social/envtal sustainability
view OCP's imperative; if thinking of making amendments to OCP; fixed numbers come back to bite you; if numbers, tendency to go to max allowed and if you don't allow to go beyond, then stuck with it
be open-minded; not numbers of OCP, but philosophical concept
Mayor: a lot will look at view analysis; you said you were most excited with Area 5, wch has v low impact visually and perhaps offer the most diversity, no sgl fam in Area 5; you also said able to proceed earlier with 2 and 3 that still look fairly traditional and that Area 4 is 57% sgl fam, and almost looks like what we've been doing
as it moves across hillside, feel as if we're missing the potential that you start to achieve in Area 5, in Area 2, 3, and 4, but I don't know if that's fair
MR: Area 4 if not sgl fam cd be something else
our feeling was there shd be sgl fam; Frank's point is does it all have to be in one place
if you move west density increased
to be fair with BPP, we're not thinking great ideas without market conditions, aware of it, but it shdn't be market conditions dictate but shd be aware
JC: don't want to break up this trend, I'll wait
Mayor: I have more questions
Sop: I've got a ton, just wondering when I'm going to get a word in edgewise
MR: you'll get a chance
Mayor: can I ask my quick question?  I think Ccl is v concerned about what 2.5upa means -- gross area or buildable area?
Sop: gross buildable area
MR: do you want to try to answer that Geri?
GB: I'll defer to Stephen
SJN: gross area of site; it's a 200-acre site at 2.5upa

{interesting change so great question by the Mayor.  The reason for the question and the uncertainty of some is that the previous plan or OCP was for 2.5upa per BUILDABLE acre. In the most recent OCP, cmte chaired by Cclr JF, it was changed to the gross site, resulting in much more being permitted to be built.  That round went to BPP, hands down.}

the concept, and this was devpd by the cmnty through the Upper Levels study

{ah, not quite.  I attended those mtgs, the actual name was the Upper Lands Study -- there was a long period without mtgs, staff produced a report and some mbrs objected, but it was a fait accompli to all intents and purposes.}

nature of the land generally wd dictate what cd be accommodated what form; if land such as above Mulgrave, pressure to sgl fam b/c anyone owning wd believe you'd be taking away value from them by compressing it
if they think they can get 12Ksf lots, ask them to build townhouses, they think they're losing value, they're not losing value b/c it depends on what Ccl approves but they think they're losing value
BPP has a lot of area not buildable for envmtal and topographical reasons, so that their units compressed into smaller area; they'll be smaller (townhouses, etc)
so planning process, what land can accommodate comfortably
2.5upa comes from 40 years ago, what wd be fair growth in the region
see what that looks like, that's okay with us
not nec'ly what you want to see today
Mayor:one last question, urban conferences
it's a huge responsibility to take a green mtnside and develop it
most go the other way, most about brown-field devts
to what extent did that weigh heavily on everybody
MR: someone else want to answer the question?
John Barker: happy to; Streamkeepers v happy with proposals by BPP
pleased able to forward principles, captured pp 16 and 17 unchanged; BPP took our principles, gave a rebuttal, basically telling us well-aligned with their own, supported them
Streamkeepers put this together with a group of nine volunteers (the directors); b/c not tested or developed elsewhere, went to head of the Pacific Streamkeepers Federation in NV (she helped us quite a bit), went to our cmnty adviser for Fisheries (who helped us quite a bit), went to the Past Exec Director of the PSK, and your own Envmtal Coordinator, Steve Jenkins was v helpful
solidified before tabling before WG; those that survived the test, BPP, now enshrined in these principles
the main watercourses are being looked after, starting with at Marr Crk on east, Rodgers East, Rodgers Main, Rodgers West, you've got Pipe, Westmount, and Cave within the ADP
we can talk about intermittent streams and ephemerals -- big debate on that
walked that hillside after a major rain and it's just one big watercourse, so now into areas of risk and stormwater mgmt, and other areas
I think they've done an excellent job working their way through that
From Streamkeepers' point of view, I'm a long way from density and FARs and number of units per sq ft, challenging -- that's outside my domain
main thing in this plan is that we're talking about 210 acres, 57% undevpd, Streamkeepers wd interpret that as undisturbed; when actual detail rolls out we'll see, that's a critical semantic we're watching carefully
fact is, if you start playing around with density and you increase the footprint of devt, that becomes a concern;

{exactly -- watch carefully wrt increased footprints and density, this is but a start, a plan; it's a long way from completion.  And as you allude, much still to be done wrt 'ephemeral' and creeks/streams in heavy rains -- they must be taken into consideration since there are erosion and flooding implications.  There ought to be a requirement in this plan for PERVIOUS surfaces.}

a large proportion of this land base wch is going to be left alone, wch is terrific, not only about greenbelts going vertically up and down the hillside but this vision of going across, huge, v supportive of the proposal as we see it and WG hv bn open-minded accepting the messages of Streamkeepers
Julia: responsibility of developing this area; it did weight heavily on all of us
reason for discussion around Area 4; as you see, looks like clearcut, takes away building into forest -- huge big lots, one or two trees on each lot if we're lucky if we can require that, that's the real concern, we're not letting the hillside inform there
HK: having been raised in Alberta on a farm, you realize soil is light
while you see lovely piece of land; don't put where we grow our food; in my view, Richmond shdn't be there
in NAm see sprawl that shdn't be there; Calgary, Edmonton, enormous freeways, ring roads
have responsibility
if we can't put it in Amb and Dund; can't put in Langley doing on their own
I support density, enough density for commercial viability for the village; won't achieve it at 2.5
Julia: wrt density, waiting for one of the cclrs to bring that up
Area 4 wrt envmtal and economic sustainability; already mentioned it but requires more detail
only 64 units under 1250sf and at $1K a sq ft means ppl in WV trying to stay here and young families with kids, our view wrt sustainability is not a $1.2M a sq ft apt, not many ppl, even downsizing, are going to be able to afford to move here
64 apts that size or less, my concern, strong views, if we're looking at diversity, not meeting that with the size of units we've got here
more units, smaller, that's the direction we shd be going
otherwise ppl coming in not ppl from WV, coming from outside, wch is fine but still have to try to main social diversity here; otherwise all our residents having to move out
creating village, create environments with shops and other amenities, can live there in old age and as young families; don't think we've got that yet.
JC: one of my points; v concerned about the village and echoing what you and Harold have said
if someone can convince me enough density and enough market up there
if building a village, don't care if 5, 50, or 500 stores, you'll be rivalling Caulfeild Village, essentially across the street -- not had a failure, closures through mismanagement or retirement -- but that has been v successful; to water down their market just for the sake of having a village up there
unless carefully thought through, don't think it will be a success; looking at more and more ppl throwing their savings away; don't want to be part of that
you mentioned the mtn path and you mentioned, Michael, shd rival seawalk; the seawalk has tremendous daily participation ...  the ppl who get to it generally drive
ppl come from wherever, access points, parking areas, where will they park -- ev wants to park as close as to where they want to go for a walk; makes no sense but that's what they do
Ms Boyle mentioned amenity bldgs -- not quite sure what they are, maybe a description, and mentioned mixed-use bldg, so is that the same as an amenity bldg or diff from?
and I have one other question
GB: one in Area 5 and one in 6: a cmnty ctr, space for programmed activities, maybe in assoc with M but privately owned; a cmnty ctr is the direction looking at
diff from Mulgrave area here wch has retail and office space
JC: we have one that's a success, how large? little red square? how do we keep them from having a life of their own,becoming a white elephant
GB: 5 and 6; about Stonecliffe has a cmnty amenity facility, don't know if you're familiar with that; put up by residents of the area, owned by them,
wrt Whitby and FAR, it's a v well-founded comment; taking quite a while for that space to be occupied; how long did it take?
Ans: three years
JC: dvpr talked about moving offices up there and didn't
GB: talked about that happening here as well, concerns well-founded, if we can turn our minds to those questions as to what wd happen
MR: understand where you're coming from
if you don't design at the beginning, may not be viable initially but will be in future as popn rose, you've lost an opportunity
have to be designed with some sort of flexibility; initially maybe not commercial but eventually; somebody wants to have commercial; have to be thinking future
JC: no problem with that but so many considerations before money or space to something of this nature; don't want to belabour it
Area 5, Ms Boyle, something about an exit road
GB: it has one point of access, right here
JC: where cursor is talking about an exit road
GB: don't have an exit road, terrain won't allow that happening
so connection called man access -- mtn pathway cd be accessed by firefighters
secondary route out
looking closely at design of road; one vehicle/two vehicles break down don't stop others from getting in/out; potential blockage points, next level of detail
MR: haven't said how long going on tonight
we've got about half an hour left; want to make sure all ccl mbrs and WG mbrs get a chance
know some have not, will let Sop speak then put up your hand
Sop: a couple of years ago, we as Ccl told them to go away; circles and dots wch they did do
the proponent of this devt has, in my view, been and has had a long history of concern for the envmt

{pause for the commercial break}

this determined by the geography
agree with Streamkeepers, steep slopes and number of tributaries
think the proponent group with WG has sought out best
a bit of shortfall wrt anticipating complete cmnty b/c next area has not been considered
for complete commercial area that wd stop the N-S and produce E-W, considerable walkabout
I know driving to that in the next go-around; village combined with what we have here
feel not whole picture here; but look at generous areas left with, is it truly going to be WYSIWYG
all come down to [sound system and tape inaudible here]
if can only build in 40% what shd be our consideration from the taxpayers' benefit
what wd we as a Ccl expect from this area, from whole concept
whole hillside, v important question
MR: we as a group have not spent much time on cmnty benefits
consumed with other issues; appendix at end BPP has some
not that not aware, hasn't come up yet, will spend time
VV: pick up on that point, looking at p 66, says from prop taxes M shd be expected to receive $2.24M per year; remembering from our OCP at end of financial section, F2 heading, has that new devts must not impose costs on the existing cmnty
create a little equation, build other side, what will our expenses be related to this devt?
off the top of my head, if asking police chief, fire chief, the garbage service that has to go up there that doesn't at the moment
looking at this nice mtn pathway, wondering how much does it cost to build, how long will it last, what will it cost to replace, how much shd we set aside ev year to keep up with infrastructure
with Fiscal Sustainability exercise, I don't think this $2.24M is going to be equivalent to the extra costs; add to that the effect on the Lions' Gate Bridgehead
just had a prov report on how expensive to mitigate the effects of the traffic in that location
500 units, 1000 or more ppl, 2 - 300 more cars, still add up to a lot of expenses for the rest of the cmnty

{valid about chiefs, etc., and extra cost but bridgehead comes out of prov coffers; still taxpayers though.}

we've had ppl who live on 15th and 21st Streets talking about the Upper Lands, and say build up there, complete cmnties so they don't come down overcrowd our streets and rec ctr
unlikely this size, 500 units looks clear to me not enough to support their own cmnty ctr
applicants have done a good job, spread sheets, types of units, now I hope our staff will list all the things that will cost us money relative to this devt and how it totals up, what the long-term costs are going to be.  We're in the post-Fiscal Sustainability era now, they want us to look at everything, not just the capital cost to get there, what happens ev year thereafter, b/c failing to do that in past or not thinking things wd get this difficult financially, we're behind with infrastructure like just about all other Ms in the country.  I want us to get ahead of it this time.
I'm hoping with good leadership, somebody we don't have, like an urban economist, there's no such person on our org chart; need somebody to give us this financial info
MR: reasonable point; wd like to think through this exercise staff wd provide a fiscal analysis of this plan
capital works provided by dvpr, but certainly mntnce side needs to be understood
on M level, pretty well known that maintenance costs for operating a municipality start to drop with density so one way to handle, much better rather than some kind of sprawling low-density devt; lots of case studies to support that
does that mean this devt is not going to cost the M any money? you need to do the fiscal impact; think it's going in the right direction
MS: late hour and to give public time for say, will be brief; think it's an interesting plan, food for thought
key question for the evening, surprised not asked to date; are we going to allow dogs on leash on mtn pathway
[much laughter]
MR: surprised taken this long! Easy answer is that's a detail
HK: virtual dogs
RD: been on Ccl most of time since 1986, greatest interest and one of my main reasons to run originally was to devp in a way sensitive to terrain and wch wd be acceptable from an envtal point of view and also for those of us who live below who have to look at the mountains as well as the sea
plsd with this plan; involves great progress, sensitive use of the land; preserves creeks, preserves most of forest, looks carefully after drainage, envtal sensitive areas, viewpoints
we've made a lot of progress, social sustainability, and things of that sort
plsd to have been on this Cmte, done marvellous job
fortunate to have almost a sgl owner, who does have experience in mountainside devt and is using this experience in a sensitive way. Now clear the way for public questions.
MR: anyone want to add anything?
JF: this WG done an excellent job; huge help; excited about where we can go from here
MR: v small amt of work compared with BPP and your staff; truly a collaborative exercise; we're done turn it back to Pam
Mayor: any comments, first of all from general public, I know many here tonight with private (owners)

Mayor: Well represented by the WG I gather than.  Any other comments by anyone in the gallery.  Seeing none, I too wd like to thank you for your participation
WGs have become the norm; never been this open; excellent beginning; hope this evening serves as a catalyst for the public's interest b/c that's what we all rely on
thank you for taking part; taken a lot of ppl to get to this
Sop: where do we go from here? how many more times to meet? when will final come to us?
RD: next mtg I think scheduled Nov 15 and possibly public 27, right Geri?
GB: still finalizing the dates
RD: from there try to sort out some details; WG will make recommendations
will be up to Ccl to make final decisions re density, social sustainability and things of that sort
WG has come a long way with this plan -- public can see this plan drawn up by BPP, if they go to the Planning Dept.  In preparation for public mtg, public can inform themselves, remember our mtgs are open, and the mtg Nov 15 is open as are all.
Mayor: we're adjourned
5.    ADJOURNMENT  8:56   {See Calendar above -- next mtg changed to Nov 8}
===  CCL MTG AGENDA Nov 5th  ===
2.  ADOPTION OF MINUTES: Oct 15 and 22
3.         V. MacGregor, President, West Vancouver (BC/Yukon) Branch 60, Royal Canadian Legion, regarding Veterans' Week November 5 - 11, 2007
4.         S. Isaac, regarding Existing Bylaws Pertaining to Bed & Breakfast Accommodations         Presentation by Western Community Services Society (formerly "Eagle Harbour Community Services Society") regarding Spacenet Play Equipment, Gleneagles Community Centre
6.         Provincial Electoral Area Boundary Readjustments
RECOMMENDED THAT Council consider the following deferred motion of October 01, 2007:
            "THAT Council write to the British Columbia Electoral Boundaries Commission opposing any increase in the number of Members of the Legislative Assembly in the Province of British Columbia."
7.         Community Centre Quarterly Update - Volume V, October 18, 2007
RECOMMENDED:... report ... from the Deputy Director, Parks and Community Services be received for information.
8.         Civic Centre Parking
RECOMMENDED: ...report from the Deputy Director of Parks and Community Services be received.
9.         Consent Agenda Items - Reports and Correspondence List
Item 10 - Development Variance Permit Application No. 07-037 (866 20th Street) (to set date for consideration); and Item 11 - Correspondence List.

10.       Development Variance Permit Application No. 07-037 (866 20th Street)
RECOMMENDED: ... for consideration on Monday, November 19, 2007.

11.       Correspondence List
Correspondence received up to October 19, 2007
Requests for Delegation
(1)       K. Pople, Ambleside and Dundarave Ratepayers Association (ADRA), October 18, 2007, regarding Request for Delegation: Redevelopment Plans for the Ambleside Business District Referred to the Municipal Clerk for response regarding delegation scheduling.
Action Required
(2)       S. Godey, Rotary Clubs of the North Shore, October 11, 2007, regarding Request for Funding: Operation Red Nose 2007
Referred to the Mayor and Council for consideration and response.
(3)       October 13, 2007, regarding Helicopter Noise
Referred to the Director of Administrative Services for consideration and response.
(4)       October 17, 2007, regarding Dog Walkers - Habitat Impact Issue in Whyte Lake Watershed Area
Referred to the Director of Parks & Community Services for consideration and response.
(5)       V. Barr-Humphries, BC Safety Authority, October 16, 2007, regarding Request for Proclamation: Elevator Escalator Safety Awareness Week
Referred to the Municipal Clerk for response.

(6)       R. Barr, Hugo Ray Park Area Residents Group, October 19, 2007, regarding Meeting with Mayor Goldsmith-Jones and Hugo Ray Park Residents
Referred to the Director of Parks & Community Services for consideration and response.
{this provides clear documentation of their issues by category.}

(7)       October 19, 2007, regarding Cemetery Security
Referred to the Director of Parks & Community Services for consideration and response.
No Action Required (receipt only)
(8)       Committee and Board Meeting Minutes
        (a)       Design Review Committee - September 06, 2007
        (b)       Board of Variance - September 19, 2007 (File: 2310?02)
(9)       Mayor G.F. Ferguson, City of Abbotsford; Mayor M.M. Wilson, City of Coquitlam; Mayor K. Alberts, Township of Langley; Mayor D.L. Watts, City of Surrey, October 10, 2007, regarding Liveability Accord between Abbotsford, Coquitlam, Langley Township and Surrey
(10)     4 Emails regarding Hugo Ray Park
(11)     Staff and Students of St. Anthony's School, October 16, 2007, regarding Invitation to Attend Remembrance Service
Previously distributed due to timing of event.
(12)     D. Porter, First Nations Summit and T. Raymond, Union of BC Municipalities, October 16, 2007, regarding Guide to Community to Community Forums in BC
Attachments available for viewing in the Legislative Services Department.
(13)     Union of BC Municipalities, October 17, 2007, regarding Tsawwassen First Nation Final Agreement Legislation
(14)     October 17, 2007, regarding Letter of Appreciation:  Staff Member, Operations Centre
(15)     October 18, 2007, regarding Garbage Tags

Responses to Correspondence
(16)     B.A. Dozzi, Manager - Roads & Transportation, October 11, 2007, regarding General Letter to Residents/Business Owners re Dundarave Parking and Traffic Plan - Implementation
{The outline of the final plan and implementation}
Responses to Questions in Question Period -- No items presented.
Correspondence received up to October 26, 2007
Requests for Delegation  --  No items presented.
Action Required
(17)     October 22, 2007, regarding Proposed Landscaping Plan - Altamont Crescent
Referred to the Director of Planning, Lands & Permits for consideration and response.
(18)     M. Southerst, Dundarave Business Association, October 26, 2007, regarding Request for Funding - Christmas in Dundarave, Festival of Lights
Referred to Mayor and Council for consideration and response.
(19)     October 28, 2007, regarding Gordon Avenue and Neighbourhood Area Traffic and Streetscape Study
Referred to the Director of Engineering and Transportation for consideration and response.
No Action Required (receipt only)
(20)     Committee and Board Meeting Minutes
(a)       West Vancouver Memorial Library Board - September 19, 2007
(21)     October 17, 2007, regarding Dog Bylaw Enforcement
(22)     October 18, 2007, regarding Firefighters On Call
(23)     S.E. Dowey, City Clerk - City of North Vancouver, October 18, 2007, regarding Emergency Power and Heat for Seniors Housing and Group Homes
(24)     October 19, 2007, regarding Overtime Restriction, WV Firefighters
(25)     I. Chong, Minister of Community Services and Minister Responsible for Seniors' and Women's Issues, October 19, 2007, regarding BC Asia Twinning Tool Kit
Attachments available for viewing in the Legislative Services Department.
(26)     October 19, 2007, regarding Bylaw Officer - Enforcement
(27)     October 22, 2007, regarding Proposed "Back In" Angle Parking - 2400 Block Bellevue Avenue - Petition with 16 Signatures
(28)     October 23, 2007, regarding Recent Concerns re Dog Bylaws - Lighthouse Park
(29)     October 23, 2007, regarding Proposed Landscaping Plan - Altamont Crescent
(30)     S.E. Dowey, City Clerk - City of North Vancouver, October 25, 2007, regarding City of NV Municipal Emergency Plan
Attachments available for viewing in the Legislative Services Department.
(31)     M. Southerst, Dundarave Business Association, October 26, regarding Dundarave Traffic and Parking Plan
(32)     October 28, 2007, regarding West Vancouver Dog Regulations
(33)     October 29, 2007, regarding Animal Control and Licence Bylaw
Responses to Correspondence
(34)     R. Fung, Manager, Utilities, October 22, 2007, reply regarding Flood Damage due to Overflow of Vinson Creek at Kings Avenue - January 2007
Responses to Questions in Question Period  --  No items presented.

=== LANGUAGE --  FAQs = Freque= ntly Asked Questions

        Are you perplexed and puzzled by acronyms?
        Do you feel reading WVM is like eating soup with a slotted spoon?

Let's start with Ccl (Council), cclrs (councillors): JC = John Clark; RD = Rod Day; JF = Jeanie Ferguson; MS = Mike Smith; Sop = Bi= ll Soprovich; VV = Vivian Vaughan.
Some staff:
MMgr (Municipal Manager) -> CAO (Chief Administrative Officer) = Dave Stuart (till the end of the year)
DoAS (Director of Administrative Services) -> RB = Rick Beauchamp; MClk (Municipal Clerk) -> SSch = Sheila Scholes
Dir/Finance -> RL = Richard Laing; Dir/Planning -> SJN = Steve Nicholls; Dir/Parks -> KP = Kevin Pike
Dir/Engg (Engineering) -> EB = Emil Barth (on sick leave so Brent Dozzi or Raymond Fung attend the ccl mtg)
In text:
AFAIK = As Far As I Know; btw = by the way
BPP = British Pacific Properties -- bought almost all the land west of Capilano River in 1930s for $75,000
DWV = District of West Vancouver; M = Municipal; NS or NSh = North Shore; DVP = Development Variance Permit
FAR = Floor Area Ratio, sometimes FSR = Floor Space Ratio; FWIW = For What It's Worth
IMO = In My Opinion; IMVHO (very humble); IOW = In Other Words; OTOH = On the Other Hand
PH = Public Hearing
RAR = Riparian Area Regulations (provincial); ROW = Right of Way
sf = square feet; upa = units per acre
WG = Working Group; wrt = with regard/reference to; WYSIWYG = What You See Is What You Get
........any more you're wondering about???

Further to the Heritage Alert.
Some of you have already asked what can be done so shall provide background and status first.  Thank you for all those responses on a Saturday afternoon!  It was welcome news to someone ill in bed fighting off the flu!
My personal line at the office is 922 4400 and you can tell reception it is about the Erickson house or leave a msg.
The good news is that the residence was on the Heritage WG agenda on Thursday, listed as a primary heritage resource with an application for a demolition permit, so at least it has come to our attention.
Staff reported the off-shore owner speaks Cantonese so not possible to speak to them, and the architect hired is Poskitt and staff spoke to them.  IMO, highly unlikely an architectural firm hired to build a house will be enthusiastic about relaying messages about the importance of keeping a house they've been hired to build a replacement for.  One Reader kindly provided the photo below so you can see this exceptional house built on a lot dismissed as unbuildable.  That surely was a challenge to Erickson -- he always fits his creations into the landscape -- and no surprise this home has received national attention.
Two other photos show the spectacular view as well at http://www.arthurerickson.com/H_grah.html
As I said, a gem.
I've requested the background and the prestige of the house be relayed to the owner who possibly is unaware.  As you know, we are often dismissed as without or with little culture assuming we're so new; once ppl are made aware, however, there is the possibility of some sort of preservation, recognition, or whatever.
FYI, I'm chair of the just-established 'incentives' subcmte of the HWG.  My position is that the Registry might be nice (that's what the HWG's main purpose is supposed to be), but without awareness and advocacy supported by incentives, it will be to little avail.  Ppl must find out about what we treasure and value in our cmnty.  Then they must be encouraged and see heritage as a positive, and look forward.  It doesn't mean nothing can be touched -- additions and alterations as long as in keeping with the style (and not a box carbuncle, unless it's a box house in the first place) are fine, plus we must have incentives for maintenance or retention -- density transfers, tax relief (Victoria will match funds in tax reductions), etc.  Any ideas you have that you think wd contribute toward the celebration of our heritage are most welcome (write to carolanne@heritage.westvan.org) and we can let you know about mtgs so you can attend and contribute directly in person!
Anyway, IMHO, the good news is that it came to the HWG, so things are getting better.  Still, I will ask for it even earlier -- the earliest possible since time was lost waiting until the HWG mtg.
Next step, as I'd suggested earlier, we must make sure ALL departments have the heritage inventory we have at present and in particular the Planning and Building Depts alert the Heritage staff and groups as soon as something on the list is under consideration -- devt, subdivision, alteration, demolition.
Back to the Erickson House.  Wd AIBC be interested? the UBC School of Architecture? Trevor Boddy who used to write for the VSun?  the newspapers?  Let's get the word out.  Let's use respect and the carrot to inform the owner of how much this house means to BC and to Canada and how prestigious it is to own it.

Arthur Erickson in his book said:
The David Graham house in 1963 launched my reputation as the architect you went to when you had an impossible site.

=== TANKA ===
Monsoon season started in October this year!  Can we keep our fingers crossed that it'll be a rare November (it has happened in the past!) with more sun, months switched?  So much rain, my haiku grew into a tanka.....
You've seen some haiku and maiku; here's a tanka (5-7-5-7-7), another Japanese form of poetry.  I wrote a couple of maiku/haiku on Oct 21st and then it turned into a tanka.  It kept on raining :-)......  My, but the monsoon season started early this year!

                rain, rain, and more rain
                drum, pitter, drop, drizzle, plop
                dripping minutes, time
                        soft thrumming background music
                        to the magic of reading

To a poet, silence is an acceptable response, even a flattering one.
                        -- Colette, author (1873 - 1954)
Uttering a word is like striking a note on the keyboard of the imagination.
                        -- Ludwig Wittgenstein, philosopher (1889 - 1951)
The quality of our thoughts is bordered on all sides by our facility with language.
                        -- J. Michael Straczynski, author (b.1954)
Because we don't understand the brain very well we're constantly tempted to use the latest technology as a model for trying to understand it. In my childhood we were always assured that the brain was a telephone switchboard. (What else could it be?) And I was amused to see that Sherrington, the great British neuroscientist, thought that the brain worked like a telegraph system. Freud often compared the brain to hydraulic and electromagnetic systems. Leibniz compared it to a mill, and now, obviously, the metaphor is the digital computer.
                        -- John R. Searle, philosophy professor (1932 - )
There is not such a cradle of democracy upon the earth as the Free Public Library, this republic of letters, where neither rank, office, nor wealth receives the slightest consideration.
                -- Andrew Carnegie, industrialist (1835 - 1919)
...another from Dr Mardy Grothe (www.chiasmus.com):
On October 28, 1903, Evelyn Waugh was born in London.  In 1928, a London Times review of his first novel, "Decline and Fall" made frequent reference to "Miss Waugh", leading the author to shoot off a letter to the editor in protest.  After writing many satirical novels before WWII, he began writing more serious post-war works, notably "Brideshead Revisited" in 1945 (it was made into a successful television series in 1981).  In his twenties, Waugh was brash and irreverent.  After converting to Roman Catholicism in 1930, he mellowed considerably, but remnants of his earlier personality remained.  While attending a dinner party at writer Nancy Mitford's Paris home, Waugh behaved very rudely toward a French writer. Mitford, appalled by the boorish behavior of her friend, asked Waugh how he could be so cruel and still consider himself a practising Catholic.  He replied:
     "You have no idea how much nastier I would be if I [were] not a Catholic.
      Without supernatural aid, I would hardly be a human being."

Flattery is like chewing gum. Enjoy it but don't swallow it.
                        -- Hank Ketcham, comic artist (1920 - 2001)
Of course you can subscribe by going to the website www.westvan.org but you can also write to subscribewvm@westvan.org to receive West Van Matters as soon as it comes out by getting the email broadcast.  (Updates/Notices also sent out.)  Later the newsletter is put on the website and a limited number of copies are printed and distributed.  If you pick up printed copies, the average cost is $2 so consider defraying costs!  If you have news/information, a comment, or corrections, pls write to info@westvan.org or comments@westvan.org as they are most welcome.