HERITAGE UPDATE: still trying to find an offer the owners cdn't possibly refuse so they'll value the Graham residence and its place in Canadian architecture; had hoped they'd regard it as an honour and prestigious to own and care for such a unique, significant, and beautiful home.  Contact: heritage@westvan.org or 922 4400

= MAIN ITEMS Ccl Mtg Nov 26th: Black Bear Network; Cmnty Ctr Governance; Cmnty Survey 2007; Dog-Walking; Cmnty Heritage Register; Hollyburn Lodge; Wetmore Site (lease/sale?); Cmnty Engagement; Shell Gas Stn; Five-Year Financial Plan (public input); Ccl Procedure Bylaw; Correspondence: Qs asked re Ccl Procedure Bylaw Nov 19, not yet answered

=  ANIMALWATCH; gRUMBLINGs (whose responsibility for budget overruns? F&A mtg closed, shd hv bn open!); UPDATES (WVPD & WVFD $1M+ over budget, Rodgers Crk up to 678 units?, Design Review Volunteers, what's receipt?, unanswered Ccl Procedure bylaw questions); BOOKWATCH (Day of Empire -- imperial ingestion); CALENDAR to Dec 8th

=  Nov 19 Ccl NOTES: Shell Stn PH closed; Youth Safe House; great Child Care WG recommendations (point of order debated); 866 20th DVP; Ccl Procedure Bylaw (more debate on what receipt means); Mid-Year Review and Five-Year Financial Plan ($1M+ shortfall known in July, now we find out with one week to comment!!!); 2396/2388 Marine Dec 10; Zoning (in)consistency; 5517 Ocean Place DVP; PQP: Wetmore, Ccl Procedures

=  Nov 26th Ccl AGENDA; Erickson Update; THEATREWATCH: Tideline tanka; Quotations

~~  IRISH DANCING SEA LION -- At SeaWorld San Diego, Clyde and an award-winning Irish dancer go flipper to toe in one of the most unusual yet hilarious dance contests this St. Patrick's Day. http://www.videovat.com/ug6850/Irish-Dancing-Sea-Lion.aspx

~~ Cat and Dolphin: http://www.videovat.com/ug6458/Cat-Meets-Dolphin.aspx

~~ Kittens 'adopted' by pet rabbit -- Six tiny abandoned kittens find an unexpected new mother figure in Aberdeen - a pet rabbit. http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/em/fr/-/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/north_east/7101506.stm

Public excluded but In Camera section not known or moved -- so didn't apply???

Mtgs behind closed doors continue, alas, despite protestations to the contrary to citizens.  The Chair came to invite me in, two of us sat outside until after the auditors (legitimately in camera) met with F&A, but when I got up, I was told no, not allowed, closed.  (There was a brief public mtg after Synovate left.) The Mayor was in attendance.  Looks like budget information for residents has been further delayed.  When? I again urged some broad bits at least asap.  At end of mtg, I asked under what section the cmnty survey had been discussed in camera b/c it didn't qualify in my opinion.  No one cd answer.  That's what makes me think they also hadn't followed required procedure -- a motion has to be made citing the section and then a vote taken before going in camera.

Of course, this is not the only time we've discovered this but we had hoped with all the talk of openness, inclusion, involvement, that it had actually stopped.  Nope.  Secrecy is just too tempting to some.

......rather than just preferring to talk about something in private.  Makes a mockery of how we think democracy 'by the ppl' is supposed to work........

owing to 'legal costs, severance, recruitment' -- the Police Board's decision/mistake, not Ccl's, and now taxpayers pay?  Cclrs V and Smith not so sure.  Ccl debate Nov 26th.

Also: WV against regional policing, new chief for regional policing, prov against/for, over to Board!  Ccl has no say 'over' Police Dept.  What does WV really really really want?

>  WVFD -- $500K+ OVER budget -- Firefighters and overtime: for discussion re Financial Plan on Mon 26th too.

The District of West Vancouver has registered for Phase 2 of the 'Turn it off Challenge for Local Government' -- Join Team Power Smart.  Now, the work begins -- tell your friends and family about Team Power Smart and get them to sign up online at www.bchydro.com  Then, have them tell their friends and family and so forth until our entire community is registered.

>>>  WHAT'S RECEIPT??? [from a Correspondent/Contributor]

Both Cclrs Sop and Vaughan raise the question of what, exactly, is meant when Council "receives" a report. Staff give a partial answer but are reluctant to put a definition in the Ccl Procedure Bylaw or to explain fully what it means (or, more accurately, how staff like to interpret receipt). As will be pointed out in a future WVM, some groups have exploited Council's "receipt" of a report as Council approval. So does "receipt" mean approval or not?

The critical difference lies in whether the report discusses matters within the purview of staff or those that require action by Council. If Council receives a report that outlines possible staff actions, then receiving the report is approval of those actions (and since those actions do not require a formal resolution or motion by Council, at most all staff is obliged to do is keep Council informed). In such cases, if Council does not wish staff to carry out the actions outlined in the report, then that must be made clear (either by amending the report or by some other resolution of Council's intent).

If Council receives a report that recommends actions Council take, then receiving the report does NOT indicate that Council will take those actions, merely that staff is authorised to bring the appropriate reports, resolutions, or bylaws to Council for formal approval -- approval which Council may decline to give. Receiving the report does, in some sense, express a non-binding intention -- and also implicitly authorises staff to spend the time to prepare the material required for formal Council approval/action.

Hence the key distinction is whether the report being received outlines actions that staff could normally take without formal Council approval or actions that require formal Council motions. If the former -- then acceptance means approval. In the latter, acceptance merely signals intention but not approval or commitment.

So the key is knowing what actions in a report require a follow-up motion by Ccl.  You have to know the legislation. If the actions outlined in the report may be taken without a formal resolution of Council, then receiving the report is staff's carte blanche (but not obligation) to proceed. Which is the beauty of "receipt" -- if staff wishes to proceed, Ccl has been notified and staff is covered. If staff does not proceed, "receipt" conveys no requirement for action and staff is covered. Sweet. No surprise that staff have declined to put a definition of "receipt" into the Procedures Bylaw.

1:

An answer to this wd be appreciated -- do the workshops refer to all workshops, ie Managers' Workshops and will be open as well as allow residents to speak?

2:

a)  The Mayor has referred to two business days.  Will the document have that revision, clarification?

b)  Will the Procedures still permit all of Council to agree to have a mtg without notice in a non-emergency?

c)  One reason given for two days is that letters come in late, but surely it's more important to have the major items and agenda earlier rather than hold them up for a few letters.  In any case, with Public Hearings, letters still come in late just before the mtg.  In fact, this item on the agenda had:

Additional Information:  Proposed Council Procedure Bylaw No. 4483, 2006 - Query re Section 4.16 (re timing of agenda availability) Additional Information item to be provided.

-------

By reducing it from four to two days, does that mean this will no longer happen?

3:

Cclr Smith also asked if the Procedures cd have putting the agenda on the DWV website.  Staff's answer was that they didn't want to jeopardize a Public Hearing in case the website was down and they didn't fulfill the requirements.

Of course a mbr is not allowed to speak once Ccl has commenced debate unfortunately, but there are at least three answers to that:

a)  the Procedures cd be worded as to 'best efforts' so on the rare occasion the website is down, it wd not trigger cancelling of a Public Hearing

b)  the Procedures (with respect to requiring notices to be placed on the website) cd be worded to apply to all except Public Hearings, for example.

4:

a)  Will the Procedures be revised to permit the public to speak before and at the end of the mtg?

b)  Will accommodations be made so that there is time before the mtg is terminated for the public to speak (in other words, will public question period be called at 9:45 if the meeting is still in progress so that the public will be heard even if the vote to extend fails)?

5:

Will a resident be permitted to correct any misrepresentation of his comments before the item is concluded?

6:

Will there be PUBLIC Correspondence and letters as part of the ccl package have only the name and municipality/city/district noted?

7:

Will draft transcripts of meetings -- the amount is petty cash/minimal at under $300 a month especially given the overruns in two depts referred to at the mtg were over half a million dollars -- be considered?  At least one councillor has commented on the helpfulness.

Carolanne Reynolds, Editor of West Van Matters

'Day of Empire' by AMY CHUA; reviewed by LANCE MORROW  

How to Rule the World -- review by LANCE MORROW; Published: November 18, 2007

DAY OF EMPIRE -- How Hyperpowers Rise to Global Dominance - and Why They Fall by Amy Chua; 396pp. Doubleday. $27.95.

WEST VANCOUVER  Emergency Services Toy Drive  --  November 5th - December 15

Contact:  Const. Jeff Palmer, Community Services Unit (WVPD) - 925 7348; Assistant Fire Chief Martin Ernst (WVFD) - 925 7370

==  Friday Nov 23rd ~ 9am ~ Arts & Culture WG at Cmnty Partners ofc, 1846 Marine, Lower Boardroom

~ 5pm ~  Celebrate 80th Anniversary of West Van Secondary: Student guides; cake-cutting; Kay Meek Theatre (RSVP to 925 9514 or 926 1947)

==  Tuesday Nov 27th    Rumours of Env'ment WG mtg (but not on DWV Cmnty Calendar)

        ~ 4:30pm ~ definitely a Finance & Audit Cmte mtg

        ~ 4pm ~ Police Bd mtg (moved from Nov 22) in Police Dept Boardroom

        ~ 4 - 7pm ~ WV Chamber of Commerce New Office Launch, WV Partners Ctr (1846 Marine); details in last issue; r.s.v.p. to: www.westvanchamber.com  or call (604) 926-6614

The North Shore Family Court Youth Justice Committee is a federally and provincially mandated committee responsible to and funded by the three North Shore municipalities. The committee brings awareness to court related issues and acts as a bridge between communities and the justice system on behalf of families.  The NS Provincial Court is beginning to see the effects of the use/abuse of the Internet in particular with youth. In an effort to curb this trend, the Committee has initiated an educational evening for our community.

Join parents, secondary students, and community members to learn the good, the bad, and the ugly about social networking websites such as FACEBOOK, MYSPACE, and other popular web hangouts.

Join us to learn the tools you need to navigate this exciting, and sometimes dangerous, new world.

will discuss how youth engage online, high risk activities, the dynamics of cyber bullying, and safety tips; and North Shore Secondary Students (presenting real time experiences on Facebook, YouTube, and MySpace)

==  Friday Nov 30th ~ 4:30pm ~ Heritage Strategic Plan Implementation WG

~ 7pm ~ at SFU Harbour Ctr -- SFU's Urban Studies Program -

Panelists: Ned Jacobs, Betty Krawczyk, and Barbara Pettit / Moderator:  Frances Bula, Urban Issues Reporter, The Vancouver Sun.

        ~ 4:30pm ~ Festival of Lights -- Lighting Ceremony at Dundarave Beach

        ~ 5:30pm ~ RODGERS CREEK OPEN HOUSE; Hollyburn Club (950 Cross Crk); presentations at 7pm

        ~ 6:30pm ~ Cmnty Dialogue on Nbrhd Character & Housing WG

        ~ 10am ~ Cmnty Engagement Cmte

        ~ 7pm ~ Carol Ships and bonfires at Dundarave Beach

==  Thursday Dec 6th ~ 6pm ~ Rodgers Crk WG [NB: this will probably be postponed to Dec 13]

==  Saturday Dec 8th ~ 9am - 3pm ~ Cmnty Heritage Workshop at Srs' Ctr (ph 925 7056 to register)

+++ FERRY BUILDING GALLERY --  "Great Stuff"  -- Nov 30 - Dec 21

Special Gallery Hours: 10am - 6pm; Late Friday shopping until 8pm; Closed Mondays

+++  WV MEMORIAL LIBRARY +++ see www.westvanlib.ca for more!

Thursday 29 ~~  Slide Show: Flights of Fantasy, 7:30pm  Photographer Damon Calderwood will discuss his incredible travels to capture the images of many of North America's most colourful birds.

Friday 30 ~~  Philosophers' Cafe: 10:30 - 12:30pm  Some say "the poor are always with us." But when are we with the poor? $5 admission, everyone welcome.

+++  WV MUSEUM +++   BEHIND THE WIRE -- Nov 7 to Feb 9 

1.                  CALL TO ORDER

2.                  PUBLIC HEARING

3.         PUBLIC MEETING -- DEVELOPMENT PERMIT APPLICATION

Applicant:  Pacific Land Group Inc. (Laura Jones spoke; will be a "Heritage Tree Sign")

Proposed Zoning Bylaw Amendment:  To re-zone the site from Commercial Restricted Zone 2 (C.R.2, gas station with repair shop) to a new Commercial Restricted Zone 7 (C.R.7, gas station, including a service at the pump component, and convenience store).

Proposed Development Permit:  To regulate and impose conditions to preserve and enhance the area's main street character.  (New lampstandards and landscaping; cedar, real stone detailing)

Sop asked why no longer repairs, had been there for 40 years -- answer was small shops do that now

JC says always busy -- answer was maybe so but man wants to retire

JC how many now? (Ans 17) How many later? (12)

Mayor: if Ccl doesn't grant this zoning, what wd Shell's plans be?

Ans: have to go back and look at how much longer this will last.

1. APPROVAL OF Nov 19 AGENDA: add'l info for Item 7; other addns to Correspondence, add item 16.1 Capilano Suspension Bridge (CSB) Expansion into WV

2. ADOPTION OF Nov 5 MINUTES and Receipt of October 29, 2007 Council Workshop Minutes

3.         North Shore Service Club Committee for the Youth Safe House ... for receipt

Ezio Marzotto (sp?): Mbr of Rotary of Lions; Gate and tonight representing the NSh Service Club Cmte for reopening the NSh Youth Safe House.  Together: Four NSh Rotary Clubs, Seymour Lions Club, and the Soroptimists Int'l Club.  A bit of history.  Report in 2000 concluded a gap in NSh services and a refuge for youth needed.  Safe House opened Dec 2002, on NSh, no longer have to go to Vancouver; more than 1000 used it.  Sept 30 2006, House closed its doors, not b/c it did not serve the needs but b/c loss of continuity of funding support.  The adv cmte developed a new biz plan, and we (and other clubs) got together for a regional facility.  Many have come forward to make it possible to re-open the safe house.  [list on a slide]

An anonymous donor has made a contribution that will fund the first year, $385K.  House provided by DNV at $1 a year but needs renovations.

Someone from Hollyburn Family Services described rooms:  Upstairs emergency (14 days, hope to return to family), downstairs for teens not able to go home while they find somewhere for them to go.

EM: large number of ppl helped.  Labour, materials, completely renovated house.  Renos, about $80K. Some have given printers, cash donations, etc.  Ppl who want this house open have contributed in excess of $563,050.  Tremendous need.  Volunteer work groups; opening later this month.

Sop: govts have not stepped up to the plate

here we sit with no contribution whatsoever in these areas

responsible ppl we see you here in contrast to other side

know with report from Anne Mooi on Social Services (staff ) you'll see

JF: v v cmnty-minded groups; NSh Ms have been lobbying the prov govt, even had our MLAs do so but they've had little effect as well.

interesting we assume a wealthy cmnty such as ours no need; WV higher per capita taking advantage of this resource

need for this for our young ppl; through you thank you and all those who have come forth

Mayor: I'd like to thank you as well; the new and improved house; better footing.

4.         Update on the status of the North Shore Youth Safe House for homeless youth and activities undertaken by the District of West Vancouver during Homelessness Action Week, October 15 - 21, 2007 ... received for information.

RECOMMENDED: THAT

1.       The recommendations ... be received.

Mayor: V exciting report from WG.  Pls present to us, Anne Mooi--

Sop: on a point of information, if I may

on the report we received, just a moment ago, we received for information

Mayor: if you have a point of order, that wd be appropriate, otherwise I'd like to move through the agenda

Mayor: I'm not sure that's a point of order, but it is important that we know what we're doing

CAO: no difference between received for information and received; indicates in a public venue that Ccl has received a report and all the information contained therein

Mayor: I know you have some concerns around this, I believe when we consider the Procedure Bylaw later in the evening wd be best to discuss this.  I'd like to get on with the presentation

Sop: think it's pertinent right now b/c the second half of this report wch I agree with 100% and like it, a lot of work has gone into it; second half requires some direction by staff wch in fact are going to be committed to a cmnty forum in 2008.  How can you put the cart before the horse?

Mayor: both are on the agenda.  First of all, let's have the report, then we can decide how to dispense with it.  In my view receipt means it now becomes property of Ccl and public -- staff and WG released it, now we can do what we like with it.  Miss Mooi--

Mayor: and I suggested that the place to do that is within the Procedure Bylaw

Mayor: Cclr Soprovich.  Child Care Services WG.

Anne Mooi (staff), who has been smiling patiently:  Good evening, Madam Mayor. WG established last March finish March 2008 [introduced mbrs of WG present at this mtg]

Denise Byotte (sp?): [slides]  true mark is how a society treats its children

This represents an updated examination of the needs of NSh parents and child care providers

[reports 1990 - 1995]

Four Parts of the Assessment: parental assessment, childcare providers, best practices/policies, recommendations

o  377 parents completed surveys, of wch 62 from WV; 52% impacts (cuts from fed/prov funding) with higher fees and waitlist; none recommended pay cut for providers; family planning -- can't afford another child, eg two chn under three looking at $2500 a month; barriers to returning to work; childcare on NSh but more needed; quality; childcare fees struggle to budget;

o  255 childcare facilities on NSh, 53 in WV; 23% return rate of surveys; facilities in need of upgrade; recruitment and retention of staff, salaries low so hard to live in Lower Mainland and work here; dip in ppl wanting to go into field and then for a while and go to another field; enrolment variations; preschools work if you can get child there and back b/c limited hours of operation and no childcare provision; NSh Resource Society help critical.

o  Recommendations: continue to advocate support, move toward hub model.

the hub model is being used across country; divide into regions -- some areas more young chn than others; cmnty involvement key; ease the navigation; work with Sch Dists to incorporate childcare into schools (being done in Manitoba); opps to establish and expand; volunteer peer review to monitor; leverage cmnty expertise, increase public awareness, raise status of child care providers; develop M policies; increase number of graduates in childcare at Cap College; ongoing prof devt opps.

Anne Mooi: wd like to specifically thank Cclr Smith whose commitment and leadership has been outstanding

Joanne McKenna: eight months ago sat here and talked about a crisis specifically about the closing of the Cedardale, impressed with how quickly M moved to address this

we weren't able to find an alternative to the Cedardale Learning Ctr, we have found

our mandate was quite broad; consider zoning, M space, childcare space a cmnty benefit; child care progs; Cedardale alternative

NSh Needs Assessment June 2007 and cmnty expertise: WG mbrs and subgroups

broad perspectives; challenged all of us

hosted a child care providers forum in June -- unbelievable, first time they'd been asked for their perspective!  proved invaluable

shortage of facilities and shortage of trained providers -- UBC is holding a session tonight about attracting ppl into that area

lack of recognition, poor compensation; not one specific level of govt; fed cuts, prov flipflops

greater work needed for cooperation and coordination

Looked at zoning bylaw changes: draft proposals wrt changes; good nbrhd policy, look at on case-by-case basis

Child Care Hubs: not often near a school; need collaboration, poised to advance this

three potential sites: Gordon House; Eagle Harbour Primary School Site (adjacent to school bldg); Ambleside Adventure Playground site

Including childcare facilities as a public benefit: have in Amb Town Strategy, Rodgers, and $2.5M from Ev Dr

Federal cutbacks; pursue capital funding from prov; lobby province

Alternate location for Cedardale Learning Ctr

216 group daycare spaces, down 32 to 174 with closing Cedardale; another needs to move, taking spaces down 2300 aged zero to five; sadly lacking % working mothers 85% working fathers

MOVING FORWARD: urge you to adopt and embrace wholeheartedly; look forward to working productively

Do want to say thank you to WG and to Ccl; using cmnty; tremendous opp, to walk the talk

incredibly impressed with professionalism and knowledge of mbrs, in particular Cclr Smith who I dont think missed a mtg

....come up with a creative solution

Mayor: thank you and thank you for your leadership as well

exhausted reading that out; a pleasure and privilege; everyone's opinion heard and respected

early age children have flown under the radar screen; parents working so not much time for lobbying; time now that we do step up value and respect chn in cmnty, work with Sch Dist to make sure adequate spaces; enthusiastically endorse the recommendations of the WG, hope Ccl will; hope it will lead to a more lively number of facilities for chn

JF: I too will be supporting the policies; wd like to thank all the mbrs of the WG; presentation thorough, succinct, easily understandable; job well done

extremely imp Ccl support this

we know there's a prob with enabling families with young chn to live in WV

help, relieve stresses last few years; some funding

timing everything; survey, Cedardale closing, knew getting results back; right time, galvanized Ccl, Sch Dist, and Parents at right time; looking forward to seeing this continue

Mayor: will ask Mr Stuart but motion can vote for or against parts

Ccl cannot vote on zoning issues with this but if a ccl mbr felt it impossible to rezone for child care, can vote against and note why

if you go further, there are recommendations to advance; there is one wrt zoning

cd receive report but not the part about zoning

vote not to receive report or not support zoning

VV: not able to support without further discussion

it will be with regret I won't be able to vote to receive it

SJN: rec is to consult with cmnty wrt zoning; basically if you do not wish to consult with cmnty you'd vote against

RD: same; item E, consult with cmnty not talking about changing zoning

I strongly support these changes, our duty to support our chn, our future, make life as easy as we can

In France, Sweden, and elsewhere, public education starts at three, considerable $$$ for creche.

Daycare mostly provided by State; feel strongly b/c I lived in France for a number of years

Shd have it in Canada

thank this WG for all the good work it's done

Sop: my congratulations go out to this WG; first one that's come to Ccl

lack of space, creation of care for our chn; I went to some of the mtgs; some did not want to create larger daycares; wanted eight and under, all they cd handle; wdn't look at commercial space b/c too expensive; hubs good, and schools; wrt zoning, some statements without consulting with public but when go through process

I apologize, I didn't mean to be rude to you; if we receive, receive with great thanks, and what we do is our business

the zoning portion is equally important as the rest of what we're trying to achieve here

diff than recommendations

support group

Mayor: Mr Stuart, a third time

CAO: pp 94 to 97, detail, sophisticated discussions wrt zoning

think this is just the basis; look at all the issues; I wdn't suggest Ccl accepting all the recs, talking, forms basis of what will work and what won't; basis to come back to Ccl

JC: echo, congratulations; work, and quality; any zoning requires a public hearing and a public mtg

in my mind to not support wd be throwing a wonderful opp straight into the trash barrel; fully in support of this, receive or not receive!

if ppl don't understand what receiving a report and taking action was, then we've got a real problem going forward as a Ccl

to summarize, b/c of work involved and recommendations I don't see how anybody cd oppose the four or five recommendations/actions/items I read out; that we get the unanimous support on Ccl b/c I think it's important and move on

Cclr Smith, your leadership has been outstanding -- it's been a trial to put ccls out as leaders, and that has worked very well

when the prov govt comes forward with a new funding formula wch is the case right now, we need to be ready and we are ready and those cmnties that are not won't get

this is exciting; can't imagine not supporting a further public process around what will be most sensitive, and that is child care in residential nbrhds -- everybody knows if we are mandated eight chn or fewer anywhere in province.  Question is, can we do better, and how can we be sensitive to nbrhds.  So it's a v proud day for this Ccl and we thank you.

what has motivated us, is looking after our chn, and that's where you see everybody pulling together.

Mayor: ask Ccl, prefer vote as whole or indiv?  whole?

Sop: individually

Mayor (looking around): okay, as a whole?

[PASSES with VV opposed]

Additional Correspondence:  3 letters from the residents of 918 20th Street, 951 20th Street, and 1952 Gordon Avenue (previously received at the November 5, 2007 Council Meeting)

At the November 05, 2007 meeting, Council received the report dated October 23, 2007 from the Community Planner.

MOTION: the DVP which would allow for the retention of an existing non-conforming driveway location be approved.

Geoff/Jeff Keate (sp?): hired to design a new home for my clients; they are here this evening

DVP to allow retention of existing driveway; original house was built 70 years ago

proposed house wd retain the driveway [slide of architectural drawing; house had received approval some years ago but those owners didn't go through with it]

All 13 lots have driveway access from 20th and without approval tonight wd be only one without

[slide of footprint, showing three large cedars wch wd hv to be removed to put garage there and nbrs concerned about losing those trees as well]

Nbr has gone to 17 nbrs, all support existing driveway; Planning also supports

RD: I went to the site this afternoon and it's been cleared

Ans: yes last week; in June told didn't a Variance and then told did need one; been putting off contractor and ..... so cdn't keep them waiting

RD: those large trees? were those the cedars? have they been cut

Louise: the tree that was felled was on the south side of prop, had lost top, had split and was told not stable

RD: just one tree?  those in back there? cdn't tell b/c getting dark; still there?

Louise: yes; in mid-Sept sewer line collapsed so had to get out, three chn; b/c needed a variance with collapse had to get out, stay with friends, house sitting empty, derelict since that time

RD: since mid Sept?

Louise: yes;.... we walk a lot in this nbrhd, kids go to PJ; live in front of house, if back changes

wd change the way we live in house; no parking on 20th; guests will be parking on street wch is why want driveways at back; guest parking on 20th and narrowing it wd make it worse -- a lot of ppl walk down our street

Mayor: correspondence we

SSch: 918 20th Correspondence

Mayor: no further public input, Cclr Day make recommendation

RD: moved receipt (CARRIED), then approval (ALSO CARRIED)

Mayor: Ms Reynolds to speak

Carolanne Reynolds, Editor WVM:  Wow! 130 pages!

Cclr Vaughan said she had a couple of amendments and Cclr Soprovich has 14.  I have fewer.

May I please ask for clarification as well.

1

It's good to note that Council Workshops will be open but does that include Managers' workshops to wch all Ccl is invited?  IOW are they both open and are the public entitled to speak?

2

In one place it says the agenda/mtg information will be available four days in advance and the revision as I read it says two.  That cd mean Saturday!  May I suggest instead, three business days before the Ccl mtg.

In fact, in one place my reading is that Ccl can call a mtg without any notice whatsoever (page 86). While one might imagine an emergency situation that requires notice to be waived, this section imposes no requirement that an emergency be declared or imminent. Merely to permit all of Council to agree to having waived notice is neither acceptable nor necessary.

3

After when, where.  It is my hope that the District will hasten its emergence from the Middle Ages.  Yes, I'm speaking again about the notice of meetings.  It just states the agenda is to be posted outside the north and south doors of municipal hall.  Why expect residents to have to walk to the Hall?  Please specify that the agenda be on the District's website three business days before the mtg.  Sometimes there are major issues and that is not much time.

Also, the Communications Dept has an excellent system for press and media releases.  Please expand this so that citizens can sign up to be on the email notice of the agenda.  It's just the press of a button to go to the list.  This can apply to cmte mtgs.

4

Close of mtg.  If Ccl decides to insist on a unanimous vote to go past 10pm, then may I suggest the system the last Ccl had, that is that at 9:45 Mayor Wood wd ask if anyone from the public wanted to speak.  In fact may I also suggest that after the call to order at 7pm there be a five-minute period for anyone in the gallery who has an urgent question or a question about something not on the agenda.  Ccl can answer immediately or defer to staff or to the end of the mtg as appropriate.  Requiring citizens to wait two to three hours just to ask a simple question would appear to be placing unnecessary obstacles in the way of community participation, and indeed some municipalities allow public question between 6:30 and 7pm.  [IOW, ensure time for public to speak.]

5

p77, 4.50 (c) ii allows a ccl mbr to speak a third time if needed to further explain a point or has been misunderstood.  Residents speak once and then are not allowed to speak after Ccl has started debate.  May I recommend that this opportunity be afforded a resident in the unusual case of his point being misunderstood, misquoted, or misrepresented during Ccl's discussion of his point raised.  This cd be done as a Point of Order or whatever.

6

7.

With the minutes of ccl mtgs mere motions, and comments either not recorded or limited to "discussion ensued", please consider an unofficial transcript (we estimate the cost as $25 a recorded hour, wch wd be $75 a ccl mtg, roughly $300 a month, maybe less b/c sometimes mtgs shorter and holidays, a very small amount for such a major source of information and record of ccl proceedings).

Mayor: Thank you.  Three minutes.  Cclr F, motion

JF: move second reading

Mayor: move receipt; then discussion at second reading)

JF: sorry on wrong page, move the Additional Information Report dated November 2, 2007 from the Municipal Clerk re Proposed Council Procedure Bylaw No. 4483, 2006 - Query re Section 4.16 be received for information.

PASSED

JF:  move [revised] Ccl Procedures read a second time, as amended.

Sop: had a number of thoughts, going through answered all but one

CAO: we have a policy wrt report recommendation; can easily  amend that to make it v clear, not nec to put in the bylaw; to change bylaw it has to be advertised

rationale if we're continually deferring something, public come then find they have to come back

wrap it up nicely, if notices; do that now; save us from going back to other processes, and once and for all we'll have a reference point for what we mean by what we say

Mayor: that's not an amendment to the motion, that's an amendment to the actual Ccl Procedures bylaw; I'll ask Mr Stuart if we can entertain that or if it needs renotification

RD: I'll second that; I thought I was agreeing with Mr Stuart. Perhaps ask Clerk if substantive enough to need advertising, to start process again

MClk, SSch: don't believe so [cited process/notification/advertising]

Mayor: so address the way any amendment, whether 4.16 two or five days prior

JF: motion t amend but it hasn't been seconded

Sop: for discussion I'll second

RB, DoAS: to clarify, this was discussed some time ago, moving from four to two days was done to assist Ccl, in that correspondence received from the general public is made av to Ccl in advance of the mtg, b/c as on the agenda on this evening there's Devt Permits and Rezonings.  If you have five clear biz days that means seven almost eight days prior to the mtg, there's an awful lot of correspondence that wd arrive that Ccl wd get at the last minute and wd not be published on website if that period extended

We receive v few, and certainly the MClk can comment on this, as far as any concerns from the general public, on the current timeframe for preparing agendas for the general public

this is the v reason to assist Ccl and general public, the closeness of agenda pubn as close as we cd, within two biz days of actual ccl mtg

Mayor: obviate what was happening wch was more reports being supplied on the Friday b/c not av in time, and then a further third set of things on table on the Monday

wch really did serve to compromise public's ability to inform itself

we're trying to be much more disciplined, have one set two biz days prior

anyone else wanting to discuss 4.16

JF: can appreciate seeing the public have the opp to deal with Ccl issues; but not in best interests to have the agenda out five days ahead of time; worked with agendas five days out ahead and having been in receipt ten minutes before, with add'l staff reports, I think not in interests of public or M to make decisions on (cclrs not as well-briefed); I'm not in favour

Sop: seems reasonable to assume we can digest a stack of information, reports, that might be as tonight, a lot of them; two days prior to a mtg?

if we look at the difficulties staff has, particularly MClk has to supply us with all this inf

take as in early years, five days, then shortened it, wonder if compromise three days

MClk: change to two biz days was much discussed; directly to volume of supplemental packages and on-table packages, resulted in a number of ccl mtgs having three packages for Ccl to review.

Sop: if we receive one day earlier, Thursday, that's two days, so Wed, Th, Fri

MClk: currently published Thursday, and that's two biz days prior, so three days wd take it back to Wed

Sop: something that cd be accepted; too difficult; ask Madam Clerk if

CAO: if item Monday night and we have to turn it around and have it on agenda for Wed, it's impossible to do that

RD: think works pretty well the system we have...

little happier if we got our papers, our agenda, middle of the day on Thursday, rather than end of day

be more convenient if cut off mid-day

frequently late on Thurs so on Friday we have to work on it then and over weekend, public in similar situation, more convenient if cutoff mid day

v hard, Thursday deadline difficult; my wish just set deadline midday; no panic Thurs afternoon, no criticism at all of MClk

Mayor: we are looking toward two ccl mtgs and a workshop a month

reduce photocopying; so much in this Procedure bylaw, worked on this for two years to streamline and boil down; maybe just pass it and work with it

so we'll go with recommendation

CAO: this is a constantly evolving doc; it's not a doc that we can't revise; can look at it again in a few months; if other changes can bring those forward

Mayor: I think it's there

MClk: posted to website on Thurs afternoons

in one of the prev bylaw revisions we considered including that but having frequent technical difficulties at that time, did not want to have it included in the bylaw and not be able to meet that deadline and be contrary to our bylaw

RB: certainly can enhance; if public in need of add'l advertising; as pointed out by the Clk, it was our legal advisers that recommended not to include electronic in procedure bylaw so if technical difficulty, mtg cdn't be challenged; as far as [website] and at Library have been doing that

Mayor: that's our intent

[CARRIES with VV opposed]

Mayor: living document, look forward to refining as we go along.

JF: finally ... move read a third time.

[MOTION CARRIES]

RECOMMENDED: THAT Council receive the report ... for information.

RECOMMENDED: THAT ... be introduced and read a first and second time.

RECOMMENDED: THAT third reading ... be deferred until the November 26, 2007 meeting of Council, in order to allow for a period of resident comment on the contents of the bylaw.

RL: recommends amendment based on operations; review to June 30th; comparison of last four years; focus on work programs; projections and budget variances

Ccl been made aware last July of ongoing financial challenges in particular Police and Fire; led us to look at projections and possible budget variances

resources from surplus: items discussed in review

JC: read a first time

second and third be deferred to Nov 26

Sop: wondering, how we can absolve debt this by requiring being paid out of surplus

Sop: just says the net impact is that it requires a transfer from surplus

these are budgetary items and we have to find ourselves with a balanced budget

CAO: part of normal budgeting practices, at midyear review assume Dept will absorb any special costs; see Parks absorbed $70K of storm costs; that happens throughout the organization where we have v special circumstances, whether wind storms or the other legal matters associated with the Police, the impact on services wd be significant, and in Staff's opinion, it wd be inappropriate to cut that dept's budget and impact the services so significantly and therefore we wd recommend to Ccl, in fact, that we do the exact thing we're recommending this evening, wch is transfer funds from our reserves.  This hasn't been done v often and certainly, Ccl will agree wrt the three most significant issues, the wind storm, the Police overage, and the Fire overage, that these are exceptional circumstances.  Our goal is to ensure they are not repeated

VV: if I might finish my sentence, in advance of initiating that action and we have here a simple statement in the introduction wch says that depts are expected to absorb unusual and unforeseen items, and to repriorize work programs to fit existing budgets by year end.  Now that wd apply in this case.  I don't think we actually have the right as a Ccl to use our taxpayers' money to pick up the tab for actions that we cdn't scrutinize b/c the decisions made by the Police Bd wrt staffing wd be made in camera and legally we're not a part of that.  So I don't see how we can recommend the spending of approximately half a million dollars of our taxpayers' money for matters not decided by us, not approved in advance by us, and that we cannot scrutinize the details of.  So I truly believe that this particular case is something the Police Bd shd solve according to the stated policy wch is to repriorize work programs to fit within existing budgets.   I think that's an important point b/c the Police Bd is a legally constituted body, but it's not an elected body; we're an elected body and we don't accept bills from unelected bodies for actions we did not give prior consent to.

so having said that, hope others will consider these aspects.

Mayor: motion on floor is second and third reading and having this entire debate next Monday.  That shd be the substance of the debate, precisely b/c Pl Chief not av tonight and precisely b/c Ccl may need information about the obligations of the Police Bd and how the Police Act works and our connection to it wrt funding

RL: want to clarify; in the report, both the language and the intention; in normal circumstances it is expected the division will absorb ongoing overs and unders; only in exceptional or unusual cases, wd it come forward to Ccl for add'l resources.  We have done that in past, we don't do it lightly; believe listed in report, these are unusual and not under normal operation

Mayor: this debate will be next Monday night, absolutely

[MOTION TO DEFER SECOND AND THIRD READ TO MONDAY NOV 26th CARRIES]

RECOMMENDED: ... be read a first, second and third time. [Three readings passed; no discussion]

1.      ... read a first, second and third time.

2.      ... posted and advertised in accordance with the Community Charter.

3.      Following statutory notification, the bylaw be scheduled for Council's consideration at the December 3, 2007 regular Council meeting.

ALL CARRIED

RECOMMENDED: THAT the opportunities provided for consultation on a proposed Official Community Plan amendment to re-develop 2396 and 2388 Marine Drive, as outlined in the November 9, 2007 report from the Community Planner, be endorsed as sufficient consultation for the purposes of Section 879 of the Local Government Act.

Karl Gustavson, architect: model in lobby; asking for referral to PH

has been through a lot of public discussion; started as Capers and said not acceptable

Client Larry Sutherland and xxxx as well

proposal for 20 residential, no commercial; came to Ccl with that proposal said too large for site

more public consultation; looked at consolidation of that site -- looked at combined 17000sf down to 16K+ sf and to that now

little impact to nbr to east, mitigated impact to south; angled parking

C1 zoning; this provides [fewer] car trips; deterring traffic from going east down lane, user-friendly

took all parking on grade put underground

many features good for cmnty: sustainability, aging in place, variety in size, increased pedestrian facilities; sidewalk, bus shelter; services required already in place

large public consultation, well-attended

some letters wrt tree ht and traffic during construction

one thought or comment -- read recommendation from Design Review

Mayor: any questions?

so OCP not complied with and H5, specifically refers to commercial ctr, it's not in Dundarave ctr, it's flanking; can't proceed; really shd wait until the next Ccl reviews the OCP

putting a lot of time and effort into something we can't support

Mayor: motion on floor is process

JF: I'm sure Cclr V understands what we're doing is amending OCP so can be sure it complies

what OCP is all about, exactly so we don't misinterpret

Mayor: important to stay with motion on the floor; know Ccl has strong feelings on this proposal, but first whether PH before discussing merits of proposal

JF: want to assure Cclr V that I have a v clear idea of the OCP

MOTION CARRIES

JC moves: Zoning Amendment Bylaw ... be now introduced and read a first time in short form.

MOTION CARRIES

JC then moves: ... all dealing with the re-development of 2396 and 2388 Marine Drive be considered at a concurrent Public Hearing / Public Meeting to be held on Monday, December 10, 2007

MS: I don't have any objection to this going out to Public Hearing.  My only question or concern is Ccl policy wrt Cmnty Benefits.  I wd think mbrs of the public wd quite properly ask how we arrived at the cmnty benefit, and I think if we're going to a PH, we shd come with at least how and why we came up with that figure, and how and why it's going to be applied, and so that, we sort of struggle for some consistent Cmnty Benefit and Public Amenity policy, when looking at these rezoning applications

SJN: I have a draft report on that and will provide that to Ccl prior to the PH.  We do not believe in this particular instance there's basically any uplift in the property; it's a lateral zoning change with different types of use, but we'll provide info on that and also an est of costs and benefits that hv bn included so you have that before you

Mayor: as well as what's contained in the report before us

[CARRIES]

RECOMMENDED: THAT the November 9, 2007 report of the Director of Planning, Lands and Permits regarding "Zoning Intent - Consistency of Regulations" be received.

Carolanne Reynolds, also involved with Dundarave Nbrhd Assn (DNA) wch brought this matter to Ccl (Sept 17 ccl mtg) and urged that regulations be interpreted according with intent b/c of some perceived anomalies:

Editor of West Van Matters.  As you know, Mayor Goldsmith-Jones, I was in the gallery when this matter was brought up and by the DNA with the example on Ottawa that they were talking about.  I have two points.  One is that Mr Gibbs, who spearheaded this, and his wife are in Buenos Aires right now.  I have a letter from him but I will defer to Cclr Soprovich b/c he, I'm sure he'll [deal with that] b/c email has been sent to him; not sure if he's received it.  If Cclr Soprovich has received it, I'll leave that to him and then I have one comment

Mayor: then I'll have your comment pls

CR: If Cclr Soprovich hasn't got it, I will comment; if he has

Sop: I know of the document you're talking about; I don't have it in front of me

CR: I can give it to you

Mayor: we're down to two minute now; we've still got a heavy agenda

CR: in the memo from Mr Nicholls, wch is v good and give background and I understand this is going to be looked at again, there was one sentence that stood out, and I will read it:

And the whole point of the OCP to reduce to .35 was to reduce size, and I think the point the group was trying to make was that if you don't include covered decks just b/c they don't have a wall on one of the four sides, that in fact negates the feeling of trying to reduce b/c all you do is you build your house to .35FAR and then you put this huge deck on it wch isn't going to be counted.  And I think that was one of their concerns, so I wd like Ccl to consider, that's where it came from, and I think there's a confusion around, ambivalence between the definition of covered decks and they wanted that cleared up and for it to be included so the intent cd be carried through, houses too big for the lot

[I gave Lock Gibbs's email to Sop]

SJN: I made a reference in there to the wrong street, I apologize for that, it's actually Ottawa Street, I might have said Mathers on the report; it was Ottawa, a house being constructed on Ottawa street

I've gone through the recommendations.  I actually had a subsequent mtg with Mr Gibbs about the various concerns and provided a number of photos of bldgs

I know Ccl was as excited as I am about the Zoning Bylaw minutiae.  I do intend to proceed with a review of many aspects of the Zoning Bylaw and house size is one of those

when ppl are involved in this, sometimes don't realize what they're suggesting has an impact wch they did not anticipate, and so what I intend to do in that review is assemble a technical cmte.  No reason why can't have normal residents, also involve architects and builders, and some of the inspectors.

Sometimes it's the subtleties of the regulations; the comment just made for example about house size.  House size will be on the table, whether to reduce it or not; it's currently limited to an FAR of .35, may find some debate in cmnty about reducing it, or wch part above or below grade; that's anticipated in the review

In City of Vanc where they did deal with the outdoor decks and started including them; will find bldg will build to max.  If they're penalized for adding on a deck they won't add on a deck.  Basically it's the entire house size you shd consider to reduce, not an element.

Lower houses to .30 and decks can be .05?  Lots of options can be considered.}

most successful review to date: here's what bylaw says and its intent -- here are alternatives you can consider and here are pros and cons; debate was v helpful, constructive

ended up with Ccl making major amendments to the Zoning Bylaw; approp at this time to do it, within next 12 months, will involve cmnty

discussed that with delegation that made presentation and they were happy with that.

Sop: I sent Mr Nicholls today a one-pager querying certain areas, he said he wrote this

guess we cd argue what is a storey and what constitutes a storey

in my corresp with him satisfied he concurs that a covered deck wd be a storey

interesting discussion with ppl in area wrt character and nbrhd

queston to Mr Nicholls: inasmuch as this has hit a certain area, wd it be reasonable that you wd not approve any more covered decks until we've rewritten the zoning bylaw?

SJN: not correct

if you eliminate covered decks, covered porches, verandas, you'd probably be eliminating almost ev attractive bldg in West Van, you'd probably be leaving some of the ones that are the least attractive

the concern of the delegation not covered decks in general but those on upper floors that extend great lengths, somewhat new in construction

not decks, was impacts on top floors on views and apparent mass and that's valid

will be looking at that within year, fairly quickly for a zoning bylaw review, and I believe that there'll be other matters coming up even more important

Sop: in my analysis of what constitutes a storey, did you conclude from that, even though you wrote it, bylaw as it stands today doesn't necessarily allow an interpretation of covered decks as we've seen recently by interpretation?

SJN: the statement made, actually made reference, this was the submission Ms Reynolds referred to, made reference to FAR controls and bldg height controls; and indicated b/c certain ht controls said one thing, so the FAR did as well, and it mixed up the two.

in terms of numbers of storeys, those decks that project beyond the bldgs are considered to be part of the top storey.  The question, specifically brought up by the Gibbses, is whether the bldg ht, not number of sq ft, the bldg ht in terms of number of ft, not number of storeys, they were not challenging the number of storeys, where was outside perimeter of bldg; shd it be measured from roof of the veranda projection; that was the specific question

b/c ambiguous, wd hv had a problem, we checked; we used both methods, did calculations, and was below 25ft so wd not affect that bldg constructed.  Do consider it to be a storey, wd not be able to put roof on a deck that's third storey, wd not be able to do that

when we report back on the bylaw, we'll be able to make recommendations wch you may reject for amendment

Mayor: further discussion, I'd like to know perhaps an evolutionary thing, keep Ccl updated as you go; wd like to know how this dovetails with nbrhd/character dialogue/survey, but Ccl has had an early look at today

maintaining character of WV is number one thing on ppl's minds

affordable housing and mixed family housing garners a bit more attention than no monster houses but I think they're all related

Ccl will want to look at not just how to continue to promote the character of WV in sgl-fam homes, but how we can look at zoning bylaws so that oversized homes aren't the largest threat to nbrhd character

that will entail other issues for wch there seems to be broad cmnty support like secondary suites, carriage houses; so keeping smaller home on smaller lot, and looking at an outbuilding, wch may preclude larger homes maximizing the area on the lot; all kind of fits together

Ccl's going to look to you, how that process and how we work through those issues; don't want to get bogged down in one issue and miss the forest for the trees

SJN: agree with you; think can be broken down into parts; looking at a regulatory review

some extent it's technical, some of the current regulations we have are not legal -- legislation has changed in meantime, or not well written when were written

updated in terms of our standards, things like increasing price of property has affected what's being constructed, amount of rock removal on lots, size of homes, maximization, those I'd term regulatory

other elements wrt landscape, heritage, uses, boulevards, some v much related to WG on Nbrhd Character; all dealt with but not necly at same speed; don't believe reg review shd be held up; when we mention one we shd be relating it to the other components

Mayor: when making motion might express that framework so moving toward comprehensive approach to this

VV: time is of the essence, we've had quite discontented residents for some years now, Clovelly-Caulfeild through that exercise, complaints from Amb areas, disheartened so much being lost, clear-cutting, blasting for large houses has already happened

if we don't get at this quite quickly, limited effect; with that sort of hope progress as a priority.

RECEIPT CARRIED

FOLLOW-UP wrt FRAMEWORK

VV: so move

CARRIED

Mayor to SJN: you understand? we can talk tomorrow

I'm looking at the time, I know ppl here wrt Capilano Suspension Bridge PH in NV next week, quickly move through to 13 and to that

RECOMMENDED: THAT the December 10, 2007 Committee of the Whole Meeting be changed to a regular Council meeting

14.      Consent Agenda Items - Reports and Correspondence

RECOMMENDED: THAT the Consent Agenda items as follows be approved:

=B7        Item 15 - Development Variance Permit Application 07-042 (5517 Ocean Place) (to set date for consideration);

=B7        Item 16 -  Development Applications Status List; and

=B7        Item 17 -  Correspondence List.

Mayor: wd like to pull out 16

16.1: piece of correspondence from Mr Dozzi wrt Public Hearing

LX (cdn't catch name): public hearing tomorrow evening in NV; we live just off Rabbit Lane

this affects residents at Rabbit Lane and Moyne

existing usage from 12Ksf through this bylaw, dubious how being process through DNV, not through rezoning/normal process

will increase to 80Ksf, 5Ksf of wch on our/west side of prop

we've had five years trucks ...  probs with CSB; thunder of trucks

accessing through GVRD lane through two houses; while saying not going to do this

inside building but this new one does not specify inside so cd have outside entertainment

bylaws pushed through without proper process

review these two letters I'll leave with you tonight, one has errors in process

request that you as a Ccl, requesting proper public process

wd be that you wd not be able to ... ; wd like to see this process extended; serious issue to nbrhd, traffic, we in Brit Props can't run a commercial biz so why allow one to run one through our road

Sop: based on prop ownership; CSB owns that, is it incumbent on this M to allow use of GRVRD road

CAO: required for our crews to use it; reasonableness, we've got to point that gate and sometimes locked

Mayor: now understand a GVRD staff has to come and unlock

Archie Raffer: to follow up what Mr O'Connor is saying

just involved with it the last 12 to 16 mos

watching this ccl mtg tonight, shows more of a protocol this situation shd be in

rushed through in a hurried manner without much time for stakeholders

just learned tonight that GVRD tonight just notified,  met with principals ..., works for Metro Vancouver

construction on westside? CSB denied

first reading on Nov 5, Metro Vancouver was notified on 2nd and they had to speak on Monday

Gail Martin, Mitch Slovinski (sp?) prez of Metro Vanc

Mayor: she's chair

Archie: requested delay

access through GVRD land; WV is the nbr to GVRD so we'd have to.... to fix whatever they have

they're sending  a letter tomorrow, wd urge you to do same

more complex than we know; bylaw wd allow 80Ksf on east side; who knows -- 5Ksf on west side where go from there

JC: move to extend mtg to close of biz

[PASSED!!!]

Mayor, also impressed: wow!

Man: for immediate action -- process that has taken place leads us to tomorrow night

process offensive; been going on for five years

Mr Barth, Mr Stuart, Mr Dozzi, and Mayor been involved for X years

to find out...  posted once in Friday NSNews

to find out our Mayor and ppl who work with DWV -- no one  was informed by DNV or CSB; lacks integrity in our mind

didn't ... tomorrow 20th...  only by mail and arrived xxx

I'm offended by how we've been dealt with; been mtg with CSB all summer and then to find out all of a sudden subvert the whole process by ramming this through

pls attend tomorrow night, time extended or motion rescinded

reason we live in WV in Brit Props, I've lived in WV for 50 years, house my parents brought me home from hospital; I bought here a few years ago

only one access/egress; quiet, no traffic; consider how we might enforce, no commercialization; how for our nbrs

Mayor: we received email Nov 14, that Nov 20; any legal requirement?

SJN: M decides who wd be affected and how notified

Mayor: apologize doing this at 10 o'clock at night but only time

Sop: approp for you, Mayor, to draft a letter to postpone or withdraw public mtg until such time we've had time to digest what we have to see on our side

CAO: I have a suggestion -- just don't let DNV know

...... attend the mtg

closure of the public hearing be delayed by at least one month in order to consider the impact on WV ....... be advised DWV opposed .... zoning wch may ... and allow outdoor activity .....

[Sop moved and VV seconded]

Mayor: not in receipt of that proposal

Man: you are by the fact that you have....; second letter is in response to that

Mayor: we will need time to consider that

Sop: will staff be at mtg?

CAO: imp that we not just respond, but

Sop: wd that be you?

16.  REPORTS FOR CONSENT AGENDA -- Development Applications Status List ... received.

17.  CORRESPONDENCE LIST FOR CONSENT AGENDA -- received.

Mayor: except 16.1

18. REPORTS from MAYOR/COUNCILLORS -- none

Mayor: seeing nothing, Public Questions

CAO: wasn't sure any conversation with Ccl wrt 16.5

Mayor: oh, right, thank you; wrt Howe Sound Cmnty Forum and letter drafted by Mayor Barry Janek and Max Wyman, opposing burning of coal at the Howe Sound Pulp and Paper Mill, quite controversial; report is there, want to flag it for you; mayors are considering sending a submission to the Min of the Envmt; did provide it on-table for you tonight, ideal if on agenda next Monday

CAO: simple motion, matter be referred back to Ccl next wk

[DONE]

George Pajari:  Your Worship and Members of Council, begging your indulgence at this late hour for 65 seconds

I am here to ask you to commit to having appropriate public consultation in advance of any decision to dispose of the Wetmore Lands.

My concern has been prompted by comments earlier this year to the effect that selling the Wetmore properties to pay for the new Community Centre was always the plan.

Yet a review of the reports and documents from that time say nothing about having to sell the Wetmore property to pay for the new Community Centre. In fact, the Planning Advisory Committee specifically recommended against selling the site and suggested considering the sale of other lands to reimburse the Endowment Fund instead

Earlier this year, the fiscal sustainability task force recommended that property sales be done in the context of a complete inventory of municipally owned property.

Given that history, I am afraid West Vancouver might wake up one morning to find out that you have sold the jewel in the crown of West Van's property investments to cover the budget overruns on the community centre.

CAO: Some remarks: there is no budget overrun; in 2004/2005 invited submissions and received only two; this very issue will be on the public agenda next week

CR: that was good news indeed, b/c we were promised wide consultation about it.

Before the question I wanted to ask:

To follow up on the Ccl Procedures [discussed earlier], one thing I wd like to say is that one of the reasons given [for two days] was that it had to be closer to the time b/c some letters wd be given to you v late.

may I suggest that having the actual agenda items earlier is more important than getting a few letters later, and so I wdn't let getting the letters [delay the rest of the agenda being known to the public].  It does say we have to put our letters in 11 days before the mtg, so I don't know how you're going to square that circle

Secondly, if you have a problem with reports getting there v late so it's difficult for you to digest wch I perfectly think is v good [to have time], it's difficult for you, it's difficult for the public.

Just b/c reports might be later is not a reason to not have [earlier notification] -- and I'm glad you said biz days b/c that's not what it said in the Procedures [document we have], so thank you for clarifying that b/c it wasn't there, wch is why I said it.

if those reports are late then the staff reports/item shd be delayed, rather than delaying [the agenda notification].

Next I appreciate, following up, [staff saying] that [the agenda] shd be on the website, and the answer was that perhaps it wd break down.  Well the website has been working quite well for a long time now, it was early days as was said.  There were times in the past when the photocopier broke down -- these things can happen to anything.  Just b/c it might break down doesn't mean you don't try to do as much as you can to inform and involve the public asap.

Mayor: thank you; believe that is what we intend to do, what we are doing; but I think wrt the sensitivity of public notification for something like a rezoning you really can't risk any small mistake, you really can't.  So, we will absolutely... I shd also mention that our website is being redone this year b/c we realize it offers huge potential that we're not using as well as we cd

Anyway the reason [I'm at PQP/C].

20. ADJOURNMENT [10:10]

 

CALL TO ORDER

1.   APPROVAL OF AGENDA

2.   ADOPTION OF MINUTES of Nov 19 Public Hearing/Public Meeting

DELEGATIONS

3.   The North Shore Black Bear Network, regarding Bears, Attractants and Bylaws... received for information.

REPORTS

5.   West Vancouver Community Survey 2007:  Report dated Nov 16 be received for information.

RECOMMENDED: THAT

7.  Update on Community Heritage Register:  report from the Sr. Community Planner dated Nov 16 received for information.

RECOMMENDED: THAT Staff be authorized to bring forward a Request for Proposals package that would describe the objectives, criteria and process for the disposition of the Wetmore Lands, based upon the proposals in the November 19, 2007 report of the Director of Planning, Lands and Permits, for consideration and approval by Council.

10.  Howe Sound Community Forum regarding Potential Coal Burning at Howe Sound Pulp & Paper, Port Mellon: Further information to be provided.                                                

RECOMMENDED: THAT the amendments to the Community Engagement Policy, as set out in the policy document attached to the report titled "Community Engagement Policy Amendment", be approved.

            The Public Hearing/Public Meeting closed on November 19, 2007.

            RECOMMENDED: second and third reading

Previous background report received at the Nov 19 Council Meeting: "Mid-Year Review - Budget Amendment Bylaw"

            RECOMMENDED: second and third reading                              

17.       Development Variance Permit Application 07-039 (4102 Burkehill Road)

18.       Correspondence List: RECOMMENDED received.

19. REPORTS from MAYOR/COUNCILLORS 20. PUBLIC QUESTIONS/COMMENTS 21. ADJOURNMENT

 

***   Appreciate article on the house in Sunday Nov 19th NSNews, mentioned in VSun from NSN, and excellent Nov 22 article with all facts correct in Vancouver Province.   This last asked for comments to be sent to provletters@png.canwest.com (or faxed).  Some weeks ago the Outlook asked about retaining heritage (at the time of the loss of the Hugo Ray cabin), Arthur Erickson Foundation was on CBC's As It Happens, and Friday's NSN (Nov 23) had ["Enquiring] Reporter asking if more shd be done to protect heritage buildings and all five asked said YES! 

***   Hope there'll be another mtg but at mtg Thursday was told:

  = rotted, mouldy, but on a site visit about ten days ago didn't see this, and an architect who viewed the house said didn't see much rot and definitely house cd be restored, another person said dry ice can be blown at mildew to remove it (I didn't see this either and one person in the site visit is extremely allergic to mildew and was on site for half an hour without a reaction)

  = tenants were in the house until three months ago (so that certainly means it was livable!)

  = 2007 assessment is $3.7M but that must be low -- just think of it: a home on the waterfront, private at the end of a road, spectacular view, designed by a world famous architect.......  low assessment for low taxes??????

  = owners want a house 7Ksf (and do also have homes in Brit Props)

  = house was originally 3500sf but addition has brought it up to over 5Ksf -- my reaction was to say if the owner wanted to add 2 to 3000 sf, that wd be fine as long as similar architecture so sympathetic (ie, don't add a carbuncle, to borrow a phrase from Prince Charles)

  = msg left a M Hall was that owner intent on demolition

***  One of my fears is that the 'off shore' owners may not know how significant and precious the house is.  The Lalji brothers own Larco and Park Royal.  Maybe one can speak to this one apparently who has been living in London.  Talking to the builder, a very nice person, is unsettling b/c one wonders if he'd be happy losing his project to build a new house if the present one is restored/retained.

**  I want to make sure my invitation to encourage the owner to 'blue sky' and give a wishlist will get through to and be favourably received and understood by the owner.  IMO, DWV cd not offer money, but what if the owner wanted a density transfer? special zoning or concessions at another property?   My offer to owner's rep was just to ask what he wanted.  Let us consider it.  We have to try.  It must be impressed on the owners how v special this home is -- in many architectural books and a landmark in Canadian architectural history.  One architect described it to me as a work of art.

Have received phone calls and here's a

***  LETTER from READER -- To: <heritage@westvan.org>

Subject: Graham Residence

Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 18:16:42 -0800

Yours,  Dr. A.J. M.

===  THEATREWATCH: TIDELINE  ===  tanka

For info on the Vancouver production, see: http://www.touchstonetheatre.com/productions/tideline.php

It's a fable by Wajdi Mouawad (now living in Quebec, numerous awards), translated by Shelley Tepperman; it was better than the video we'd rented a couple of years ago (richer, more poetic), and much better than Peter Birnie's review in the VSun -- may be he saw it at the beginning, b/c often performances get better as the actors settle in.

It was so complex with many woven strands, the poem that came out while watching had to be a tanka.  Even so, I cdn't get 'nightmares' in.

Endless money forms the sinews of war.   -- Marcus Tullius Cicero, statesman, orator, writer (106 - 43 BCE)

Money is only useful when you get rid of it.  It is like the odd card in 'Old Maid'; the player who is finally left with it has lost.           -- Evelyn Waugh, English writer (1903 - 1966)

A man has only one way of being immortal on earth: he has to forget he is a mortal.

                        -- Jean Giraudoux, French writer (1882 - 1944)

Man's mind stretched to a new idea never goes back to its original dimensions.

                                -- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr., American (1809 - 1894)

The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind at the same time, and still retain the ability to function.

                                -- F. Scott Fitzgerald, American writer (1896 - 1940)

Elizabeth Bowen:

        One can live in the shadow of an idea without grasping it.

Emile Chartier:

        Nothing is more dangerous than an idea when it is the only one you have.

------------------------

        A smile or groan to close..........

                A duck walks into a pharmacy, waddles up to the , and says "Chapstick, please."

                "Will that be cash or charge?' asks the clerk.

                "Just put it on my bill," says the duck.