Spring is bursting out all over!  See Gardenwatch below and plant flowers.  Spring haiku at end -- sakura.

Adoption of the budget is on the agenda for Apr 14th.   Cclr V was absent and Cclr Smith ascertained that comment and changes can still be made (confirmed by RB).  The legislative deadline is May 15th.  Please read the budget discussion (Apr 7 NOTES p7 - 25, 28, 29): Mayor's good introduction; thoughtful even helpful comments by public; then Ccl's debate with Sop's plea for info and time: and Clark's roar out of the gate!  Some remarks you will note show some mbrs of Ccl had their ear flaps closed; staff bravely try to outline the process only to reveal much of the budget deliberations have been done behind closed doors.  Anyway, I set off Item 6, the budget, with *** so you can just read that or read it first; there are then some budget reflections responding to Ccl at PQP (end of Ccl Mtg notes) b/c public not allowed to speak after Ccl starts.  Happy reading!

Main Items Apr 14th: RODGERS Crk DEVT PLAN (info to be provided!); Fire Dept Shared Services and Fire & Rescue WG report; Old Growth Conservancy Strategy for Protection; Apr 16 sp ccl mtg moved to May 1; FINANCIAL INFORMATION ACT REPORT (2007 Salaries and Expenses; can see on website); Five-Yr Financial Plan (Budget 2008) for Adoption -- NB: Public comment welcomed

=  Vive le Canada; from the EDITOR'S DESK (Salary info av; M prop list provided); GARDENWATCH; ANIMALWATCH; CULTUREWATCH; UPDATES (MDr Gateway, Rodgers Crk Devt Plan, Waste Mgmt); NEWSWATCH (Zimbabwe; Discrimination against Women)

=  Apr 7th Ccl Mtg NOTES: Cdn Mental Health; MS Walk; Four Evelyn Dr Devt Permits for cluster housing, aptmts, townhomes; Five-Yr Financial Plan Bylaw (incredibly it says "info to be provided" -- explanation??? first reading Mar 17th, now for second reading and info not yet available after no ccl mtg for three weeks???); Greenbelt Amendments Caulfeild Plateau; Apptmts: NSh Adv Cmte on Disability Issues, Approving Officer and Deputy Approving Officers; Devt Applications Status List; PQP has four speakers (Budget was third)

=  Apr 10th BRIEF NOTES Rodgers Crk Ccl Workshop (375 units allowed in current zoning, 736 proposed; what are the Cmnty Benefits?  didn't even have them when I asked at mtg!)

=  Update on Hebron Orphanage; BOOKWATCH (Benazir); What's butt dust?; Politi-ku; Haiku; Quotations

=== Vive le Canada ===  1958 April 5  Ripple Rock

        the largest planned peacetime explosion and the first live coast to coast news broadcast by CBC.

*  SALARIES --  See the 2007 Remuneration and Expense Account (Item 7 on the Apr 14th Agenda)  on the DWV website.  Was fascinated to see that although the report is due to prov June 30, the FIA regulations say the public can have them on request.  Fascinating b/c in the past we've always been told we cdn't get them until after given to prov June 30.

*  DWV PROPERTY -- A BIG THANK YOU to Emil Barth, Dir/Engg, for Inventory List of M-owned property.

*  Both thanks and appreciation to Cclrs Clark and Sop (and am sure Cclr V will be of like mind) -- more info, some time for review -- for urging information be provided and time to evaluate to see what can be done.  Maybe the Mayor's heart will soften to welcome any ideas public may have.  If nothing worthwhile, then it's a pity, but at least an effort was made.

Click and get a blank page.  Click your mouse anywhere (& everywhere) on the page & see what happens!  Better yet, click & drag your mouse over the blank page... Enjoy!! http://www.procreo.jp/labo/flower_garden.swf

Click the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D85yrIgA4Nk&feature=related

Little bit behind.  Went to PEN talk.

Sorry if I didn't mention "Humble Boy" on NShore, a somewhat related adaptation of Hamlet.   We didn't go b/c we'd seen it in London a few years ago.  "MacHomer" is on now and so is another version of "Romeo and Juliet".

We saw "I love you, you're perfect, now change" in New York a couple of years ago and it was funny, if you want to see a comedy.  If you're married, you know exactly what it's about.

Further information on the public consultation program and copies of the strategies are available on the Metro Vancouver web site at:  www.metrovancouver.org/managementplans

+  2008 April 4  Zimbabwe's inflation rate passed 155,000%

+  BBC News item: Women are discriminated against in almost every country worldwide, a UN-commissioned report says.

It says that this is despite the fact that 185 UN member states pledged to outlaw laws favouring men by 2005.  It adds that 70% of the world's poor are women and they own just 1% of the world's titled land. The report, which was prepared for UN Human Right Commissioner Louise Arbour, says rape within marriage has still not been made a crime in 53 nations.
Life-long violation, for more: http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/em/fr/-/2/hi/europe/7331813.stm

== Tues 15th

~ 6:30pm ~ Cmnty Dialogue WG (tentative date, pls confirm)

~ 7:30pm ~ WRA AGM at St Monica's Hall (6404 Wellington)

A short presentation by Parks & Cmnty Services on plans for the Great Hall, followed by

North Shore Integrated Police Services and policing issues specific to the western part of the District.  Chief Heed will also answer general questions about policing.

== Wed April 16th - BUSY!!!

~ 7:30 ~  WV Chamber of Commerce Breakfast at Hollyburn Country Club (950 Crosscreek)

COHO SOCIETY OF THE NORTH SHORE ANNUAL GENERAL MEETING

The Coho Society's guest speaker is a person of great commitment to the environment.  Mark Angelo has been on the Pacific Fisheries Resource Conservation Council for ten years and is now Deputy Chair of that organization.  Through his passion, enthusiasm, and knowledge, he has inspired many others to take action to help protect the ecosystems that fish and wildlife rely upon.  Mark has paddled many of the rivers of the world and shares a valuable global perspective on the issues.  He leads by example and in his role at BCIT has inspired countless students to become champions of fish and wildlife.  He started Rivers Day in 1980, which has become an amazingly popular worldwide event.  Mark's presentation will also touch on his experience in Antarctica and is bound to be both thought-provoking and inspiring.

Please go to www.westvanchamber.com to reserve; Mbrs $25 / Non-Mbrs $35 (GST Included)

~ 5pm ~ Heritage WG (cclr mtg ofc)

~ 7pm ~ Library Board at the Library; the Bd of Variance in Ccl Chambers.

        ~ NSh Family Court/Youth Justice Cmte at DNV M Hall

        ~ Cmnty Ctr Bd of Directors at Srs' Ctr

WEST VANCOUVER STREAMKEEPERS

== Sun April 20th ~ 10am - 3pm ~ Earth Day & Outdoor Celebration at Gleneagles Cmnty Ctr

OR you might want to go to the Chamber's Showcase from 5 - 7pm at Cafe Trafiq

Free but RSVP to Chamber required for appetizer preparation (926 6614)

        ~ 4 - 10pm ~ YPAC Family Carnival in Ambleside Park (also 25th, 26th, 27th)

        ~ 4pm ~ Fire & Rescue WG (check to see if mtg still on after reporting to Ccl)

+++  WV MEMORIAL LIBRARY +++ see www.westvanlib.org

+++ FERRY BUILDING GALLERY  "The Artists' Salon" -- mixed media; Apr 8 - 20

Group exhibition of artists from Arts Connection Networking Salon

+++ SILK PURSE (1570 Argyle) www.silkpurse.ca

===   COUNCIL NOTES  Apr 7th   ===  Cclr Vaughan ABSENT

Changes: adding correspondence, BUDGET Bylaw Amendment, letters re budget, Item 3

2.  ADOPTION OF MINUTES: March 10 Special Council Mtg; March 17 Regular Council Mtg DONE

3.  K. Green, Cdn Mental Health Assn (CMHA), re Achieve Employment Program  WITHDRAWN

ML: we have one of the best walk sites in Canada

in answer to Sop's question, MS is a disease and the source is still unknown.

At the March 10 mtg, Council received the report dated Feb 29 from the Manager of Community Planning for the first four buildings in proposed Phase 1 Devt (880 and 950 Keith Rd; 800 and 880 Evelyn Dr.) Attachments to the Devt Permits are available for viewing in the Legislative Services Dept.  Presentation to be provided by Planning Staff; Presentation to be provided by the Applicant

Geri Boyle: staff will give an overview

the four DPs represent phase one of the project: it involves two cluster bldgs and two apt bldgs

reviewed project in terms of overall master plan

the proposal is consistent with the master plan but some minor inconsistencies but still within the zoning.

the village walk and the Evelyn walk hv become more interesting and desirable elements

project shd be a showcase; sustainability, target of LEED goal silver and Ccl encourages gold, applicant has achieved 36 points of the 38 for top of silver

some measures: harvesting of rainwater, car cooperative, energy efficient appliances

plan on privately owned geothermal system for all concrete bldgs

will but project on map and WV

cluster bldgs within slope, not exposed except for top -- no points for that but important

[slide of cluster bldgs]

frontages on Keith Rd, low profile adjacent to KRd

v steep site, one bldg has a walkway between it

apt bldgs on Ev Dr, south side of the street, elevation, low profile; courtyard on south side

townhouses front street

bldgs v similar, differences response to ground conditions [slides]

treed blvd; onstreet parking spaces, pervious surfaces shd I say, as pioneered up in British Properties

Ev Dr cul-de-sac, retaining walls; new Village Walk Ev down to Pk Royal and up to KRd

walkway next to owner not part of devt/project

looking for something not formal, to capture WV character

will be a sidewalk on south side of KRd

walkway in master plan, now worked to make it accessible to all so goes back and forth -- a long walk, a power walk; good accessibility

resubdivision of the land -- working with applicant on that now; will be a road closure and road rededication -- all will have to come before Ccl; will bring this spring

been working on density amenities

detailed report on universal accessible housing; will discuss that with you at that time

the entire devpr team and the devpr present

Mayor: presentation by applicant?

GB: we thought we'd leave it to this first; here to answer questions

JF: question wrt access; says devpr 100% to meet prov standards

GB: Walter Frankel architect on the apt bldg

WF: we are proposing all the cluster and apt bldgs meet the 'safer' home

not to distinguish between so no handicapped sticker differentiating an accessible from an inaccessible

desire to make suites as adaptable as possible

you can do some things that meet but then find a special need for someone

they will have wider corridors, etc., but what distinguishes these is they're easy to adapt, to customize, and then to re-adapt

can be converted to conventional so maximum flexibility so doesn't 'blackmark' any -- we've had approval from your Disability Cmte and quite proud

Mayor: this is a major point

GB: the first aspect of traffic mgmt, beyond traffic calming, is the roundabout where Esquimalt comes down; at time of study we weren't sure what the solution wd be, traffic lights, or.... found it was possible to have an roundabout where Keith Rd meets Ev Dr.

instead of straight, a roundabout

JC: earlier on, discussion of traffic, westerly down to Pk Royal, decision?

GB: don't have info on that, perhaps Dir/Engg

EB: you're referring to extending lane to relieve stress; that's part of a larger piece of work, working with TransLink about a wider, and working with Ministry...

hope to provide you with that info later

JC: so that item's been removed?

EB: maybe contributing to as a public amenity

Mayor: still not quite clear; know Millennium keen to rough in roads

how will public come to understand?

GB: the roughing in of the roads is all based on the zoning put in place

our securities ensuring these things happen are under subdivision approval

engg drawings pretty well approved right now

another aspect of traffic mgmt is the whole construction process; right now no bldgs

we'll start to get ppl living there

there's traffic mgmt plan for work going on now and obligation to update plan as it goes along, reassessment of plan

Mayor: only one person on sheet

M Miyagi (sp?): live v close; the WV bylaw says allowed to build up to 15ft above

GB: yes, bldgs don't go beyond that

MM: the trees I see in the picture -- are they what we see?  there? will be added later?

what happens to trees?

GB: there are some trees on site that will be retained and some planted

MM: how high will these trees be?

Peter Kreuk, Landscape Architect: still selecting, but conscious of views; those closer shorter than those deeper on the site

idea is that these buildings grow out of the landscape so objective to plant well, make sure not going to 200ft in height

MM: we have noticed that construction has bn going on at night, middle of night, will this continue?  Some days like earthquakes; working in middle of night and ppl have chn, ppl wondering how long this is going on; two years?

GB: not aware of construction activity on the site at night; that was drawn to our attention and our bylaw ppl have been out but not aware

someone suggested may be storm sewer

hours were flagged at mtg last week

Mayor: what are they?

ANS: 7:30 to 5pm

GB: certainly middle of night is not an approved time

{ALL Received for information}

Mayor: commend applicant on commitment to sustainability

continue to aim high, that's where WV wants to go

retention of water? ticked off in one box but not another

ANS: intention is to harvest rainwater for irrigation

RD: devt been thoroughly examined by Design Panel, 4:30 to 10

examined; good from sustainability point of view but also design and aesthetic

an area we're just beginning to understand, building on hillside, slope

Mayor: Amendment to Financial Plan and then Budget

low density over long geog area, but then WVFD four firehalls, not one so $5M over NV

we have about 110 more FTEs than the two NVs on per capita basis

we have about 45 add'l firefighters, 35 Police; 30 add'l staff in Library and Srs' Ctr, high approval ratings, ~96% so that's where we have more staff

compensation; our directors all make less than NV

wage 3% and non-union compensation is tracked with that

we have, by policy, pay average plus 2%; something we can look at but that's what it is right now

in evaluating our budget it's important to look not just at the gross cost but the revenue offset

In Engg and Transportation Expenditures has increased by 10% to $327K but it includes $187K of maintenance costs fully reimbursed by GVTA

wrt rec progs, we have moved on the recommendation of the FSTF and Finance Cmte, from 65% to 80% recovery rate, that is the highest in the region, problem is demand

b/c Hollyburn pool closed we have a whole lot of chn wanting

ppl want to see greater capacity, offset commensurate revenue

tax rate increase; absolutely true our 1% isn't same as other cmnties

2000 to 2008, av has been 2.49%, past two years second lowest in region; 3.5% third lowest in region, second only to City of Vanc, strike, and Langley casino

always asked, under-served in casinos told by BC Lottery Corp, always called and I don't return calls

Police and Fire have come under scrutiny b/c cost ctrs

Police never come under scrutiny as much as last two years; made themselves more accountable and addressed retention wch was a cost to taxpayer

Fire Dept and Ccl wish to put decades of poor relationships behind them; cmnty expects us to work together; Fire WG reporting next week, and struck an interim cmte Ccl and Fire staff

no one wants to put in media, wish to serve you

Cmnty Services, greatest amt of innovation, board has met; more driven by and accountable to cmnty; raising funds to diversify from raising taxes

this doesn't happen overnight; realize residential base, far too narrow

costs are going up in labour and construction, two drivers at local level

we believe we have a lot of room for improvement, believe that happens thoughtfully

process; the fact the spotlight is on our budget is most welcome; important have shared understanding

at least how our budget has been put together so far

Sop: may I ask a question?

it strikes me, get confused, that no matter what we do we're looking at a tax increase forevermore, leads ppl to say where efficiencies any different

Fiscal Task Sustainabiliy .... what is going to change? we have not made an attempt at a zero budget or at CPI? I don't see it

Mayor: wait for debate; my comments were to address....

circular at door; hear from public then debate

Sop: that was my opening statement!

David Marley:  unfair of Cclr Sop to make my presentation!

this is the third submission ITAC has made in as many budget cycles

first time greeted by such an introduction; thank you and staff for backgrounder

in 17 years never seen such a document; focus on things we shd be focusing on

the attached graph: reminded of Rod Stewart song, every picture has a story, is from BC Govt sources

2006 last year figs av, 90% more than the average of the remaining Ms in the GVRD

to be fair we pay for Blue Buses and reimbursed, but we're still 67% above the average for the remaining 20 Ms; and 17% above Vancouver

quite gratifying to see public interest in this; our blogspot, www.pluckedgoose.wordpress.com wch has had in first 18 days over 3700 visits

in our first submission two years ago; fortunate to live in WV and app services we receive

we're not talking about reducing services, let's be clear

ONE: like any publicly traded corporation, within 45 days of end of quarter shd be quarterly financial statements on website so ppl can see what's going on

TWO: except July and Aug, monthly budget variance reports presented in this chamber by each Head publicly, and if variance of more than 2% in any given month, Head shd explain and a plan and timeline for remedial action

last year it was provided well in advance of vote and we believe that was helpful

ask reason for delay?

Mayor: right now? Auditor was here on Friday

RL: yes, Auditor delayed; believe will be on Apr 14 agenda

Alec Orr-Ewing:  [slides]

ev at 3.5% wage increases, cost of plumbers, everything goes up higher; went through 2007 and 2008

there's graph, hard to read but did see increase

29% increase in Admin in last five years, that's off the graph

the Mayor's/Ccl's budget proposed to go up 17%

these slides colour-coded: green means shd get kudos, red shd be harshly dealt with, and yellow is highlight

CAU Dept 3% increase, Bylaws 4% -- not bad; Communications up 17%

I've actually sent emails out to ev Dept Head, wch goes into numbers of emails received, counted, but not received a response.... so perhaps communication only goes one way here

Legislative Services went down 3%; Emergency Planning up 18%

I don't want to know the reasons, this is far beyond wages or any other factor; these numbers are high

apologies for charts, didn't intend to show.....

Human Resources, last five years, up 33%; Labour Relations, increase of 48%; this cd be acctg changes b/c some of the other numbers go down drastically, but these are the numbers that are published

Financial Services last five years went up 32%, their numbers look pretty reasonable; Purchasing only 1% so belies aspect hammer and nails cost a lot more

Police overall 18%; one of the things here, it's highlighted here that Chief Constable went up 92% is a bit misleading b/c there are items that have no 2007 numbers but I added them together, what is interesting wrt answering alarms, criminal investigation monies have gone down 2%, cmnty service -21%, civilian services -16%, cmnty services {yes, repeated} -5%; OTOH, HR gone up 27%

Fire and Rescue 16% and added in $250K gone up 64%, fire prevention

Engg and Transportation shd be commended, all the way through, v low

Planning and Lands 39% over five years, these are expenditures, not net; this is the aspect of labour and costs associated with providing the  service -- Planning and Lands is up 19%

Parks pretty good, their admin up 11%, cmnty rec up 10%, rest reasonable numbers

Library 33% increase over five years, collections, books up 20% in one year, find strange

Systems and Technology increased by 15% wch I also find a little bit strange

these numbers when you look on them on an individual basis, provided by the depts, are well beyond any labour increase in costs and beyond any sort of consumer price index

I love quotations, with apologies, first word I want to use to deal with this process: "obfustication" {from obfuscation?}  is usually used when ppl do not know what they're talking about or their meaning

the second comes from Ambrose Bierce, the Devil's Dictionary, deliberation: act of examining one's bread to see wch side buttered on

George Pajari: Thank you very much, Your Worship, members of Council.

We understand that you, Mayor and Council, have difficult decisions to make -- the budget process is one of the most important and challenging responsibilities you have to discharge.

Page counts are a poor metric but of the three North Shore municipalities our budget book is the slimmest -- our book is 75 pages long, the District of North Vancouver's 134. I would submit none of the North Vancouver municipalities set a standard, and we do not even meet that.

The games that were played to prevent any examination of the budget by the Finance (Advisory) Committee fooled no one. It was clear that there was no desire on behalf of either staff or Council to have qualified external eyes review the budget -- which I suggest says more about what might be hidden in the details than anything else.

When some documentation is made available, the information is nothing short of shocking. Let me point [out] a couple of examples.

Look at the justification for the recent Library RFID project. Note, I'm pointing out the flaws in the process, not the RFID project itself. For all we know, RFID might be the best thing for libraries since Gutenberg's press but when all that is provided to justify $650,000 of capital expenditure is a two-page memo with phrases such as "improved efficiencies" and "ability to reassign staff to other tasks" it is very disconcerting.

Given that hundreds of other libraries have adopted RFID one might expect that some quantitative data, how much time saved, how much staff time can be redeployed -- but there was nothing!

When Cclr Vaughan asked for such analysis it turned out that staff had no hard data -- had no idea what could be expected from the $650,000 of capital expenditure other than "improvements".

Ladies and gentlemen of Council, I respectfully submit that if you are making other capital expenditure decisions on similar two-page memos with no more than platitudes and arm-waving you cannot be surprised if those paying the bills have lost confidence in the process.

Might I also submit that if the documentation to support other budget requests are as shoddy and incomplete, it is easy to understand why they are no longer made public.

How can you, Council, do your job? make the difficult decisions if you are not getting complete information you need?

[Further eroding our confidence is that] there is little, if any, information provided the public on a month-to-month basis on detailed actual expenditures against budget.

Under your leadership, Mayor Goldsmith-Jones, the WV Police Board gets detailed multi-page reports monthly -- which might explain why the Police Department year after year compares very favourably with other municipal police forces in British Columbia. Why are similar documents not brought to Council on a regular basis, and perhaps if such documents were brought to Council we might see similar efficiencies here as the Police have managed to achieve under your leadership.

Our confidence in the process is further shaken when it is apparent that some of the information put out by staff is clearly intended to mislead and obfuscate, not clarify and elucidate.

I point out in particular the number of documents put out by staff, including tonight's, saying that the proposed tax increase is a 3.5% tax increase, well below other municipalities.

That's true, but it brings to mind Mark Twain's comments about statistics

or, in this case, budget documents.

And I return to the matter of taxpayer confidence -- if the stuff we can see is so misleading, what confidence can we have in the 90% of the budget iceberg not revealed to us mere taxpayers?

If we look at telecommunications and data, and compare with other municipalities, DWV spends $530K, DNV (a much larger district) $300K. Drill down to telephones and we find DWV spends $340K while DNV less than $100K.

The VoIP project appears not to have gone to tender, [DWV] went with Cisco and Telus -- known to be the most expensive, gold-plated solution available.

As one expert in the field familiar with the DWV move to VoIP said, the old service, also from Telus, was so expensive and overpriced it wasn't surprising that Telus and Cisco looked better in comparison.

In summary, the process is flawed, information is incomplete and misleading, and it is not surprising that because of this, taxpayers have a serious lack of confidence both in the process and the resulting budget.

Might I would suggest than an appropriate model to use is the grant application process. Taxpayers, having your reviewed your grant application, find it seriously wanting, and deny your request for additional tax funding until and unless you bring forward a transparent and open process with complete information that we can have confidence in.

Thank you very much.

Scott Hean:  virtually all been said by others

thank you for your time for this cmnty, wonderful cmnty to live in, proud to live in; spend personal time; faced with difficult decision

echo comments by Mr Marley and by the prev speaker; process is flawed

must change so efficiencies found in system so don't increase year after year either at or above CPI; unconscionable we continue to add year after year, has to be areas can be remanaged without reducing levels of service wch is in the paper, you yourself, Madam Mayor, say reduction or decrease in budget.  I challenge that.  I don't believe that for one second.

Many ppl in this cmnty wanting to provide valuable input so we can manage our house.

K Steig: simply asking about what I ask ev year; what's happened to the parkland masterplan

devt of comprehensive park system plan, in P1 section

envtal strategy WG recommendations, believe approved by Ccl Jan 21st

$20K under forest mgmt  ... to update 1977 plan; confused if not in budget; 31 years since looked at

Mayor: Mr Pike, wd you like to answer?

KP: a wide variety of things not in the budget; has appeared as a budget request, over and above what current staff able to accomplish; removed when cutbacks to what Ccl will approve; happened again this year and don't expect it to change for 2009 either

KS: a background document was produced in 2006, 31 years a long time

Garrett Polman: grew up in BC, been away for 40 years, moved back three years ago; appreciate opp to ask questions on budget

Police and Fire Dept, one way you can get a sense as to how reasonable a budget is is to check with comparable entities

some compare WV with CNV b/c about same popn, but comparison with DNV more apt, geography, steep sides, share demographic factors...

in terms of police, share similarities -- we have four firehalls and DNV five plus a boat; CNV gets by with one

crime rate of WV and DNV is almost the same, in fact DNV slightly under ours, whereas CNV is considerably higher

our popn half of the DNV so how do our numbers compare?

2006 for Police 37% higher than DNV, and 36% higher for Fire Dept -- quite signif differences

for Police official statistics, case rate per police ofcr, since neck and neck in crime with DNV, why are our costs so much higher but we seem to achieve same results, what are we getting for extra 36 - 37%?

According to the Solicitor General's numbers, WV's crime rate and police load burden rate have dropped 22% between 2002 and 2006, while budgets continued to rise

2008 proposed budget is almost 10% higher than the 2006 expenses for the Police

how do we justify an increase of 10% over two years, when caseload down 22% and the Chief forecasting decrease in workload for all activities

all figs from BC Solicitor General's Dept and the BC Ministry of Cmnty Services

I've worked with both the Treasury Board in Ottawa and with JP Morgan Chase for over 20 years, and the approach we use there, was that the savings generated by new systems shd be used to offset budget increases elsewhere.  Simply a way of finding money for things that increase in other areas of the entity. We wd not normally approve new systems unless they included efficiencies as a benefit, and it's standard practice for organizations trying to keep costs down by capturing efficiencies -- why not in West Vancouver?

The focus on the budget has largely focused on the 3.5% tax increase wch some ppl see as relatively moderate, however our fees, charges, permits, and licences are going up by an average of 12.2% almost four times the rate of the tax increase

most of us, whether economists or just ordinary citizens, agree high inflation is a bad thing for society -- Question: shd we not be looking at more ways to moderate what are now inordinately high fee increases?

as an ex banker, I cdn't pass this one up --

The budget plans interest income on investments to be flat compared with 2007, $1.2M income in both years.  Now with interest rates having come down as a result of Bank of Canada rate decreases, and prospects of more to come, is it realistic to assume the same amount of income?

Carolanne Reynolds, Editor of West Van Matters.

Hope you are all rested after your vacation.

The IT Dept.  I did get the information on the salaries for 2007 and the proposed salaries for 2008, I put it in my newsletter [WVM10], but the average salary increase in that dept was 9%, and I think if that's the average there shd be some explanation for how much the difference, or why there's such a difference.

As others, and ITAC and ADRA and I, have personally, and I have in my newsletter, we have always asked and starting even on Mar 10th, I think Cclr Sop advocated it too, that the new Finance Cmte look at the 2008 budget.  That was requested in February, requested again in March, requested again by several ppl tonight, and I echo the others who say that you still have a month to look at it.  The next Finance Cmte's mtg is on Wed at 5 o'clock, chaired by Cclr Smith.  So I wd suggest anybody who wants to know if the FCmte actually IS going to put its mind to this budget, or is going to be encouraged to put its mind to this budget, that they attend that mtg and see what the FCmte says and does.

Now, I also agree with others who say that having the budget reduced to 1.7% or whatever the inflation rate is, or even to zero, it is possible with efficiencies, not a cutback in services (everybody is very happy with what goes on here), and I will also echo the request for the information that we used to get wch allowed then, more opportunity to suggest savings in the budget, some of wch -- I remember Mr Pike put into [took] one outsourcing suggestion that was made that saved money, he referred to it -- so my request is that the FCmte look at this on Wed, and starting on it on Wed, that you allow time for these unanswered questions to be provided to the public so that we can continue the discussion next Monday, and that you trust the public to come up with practical and positive suggestions.

So, we're all in this together, and our aim is to have an efficient well-run cmnty, and when somebody sees whipsawing in salaries, and see salaries that go up without even the procedure being presented so that we cd see it, it makes ppl feel a little unsettled, and I know that you can address that -- and I trust that the information will provided within the next week -- may I?

$1M comes from the Millennium [EvDr] for the Marine Dr Gateway, that's in the budget I believe

and Cclr Smith has some of your questions, but I think what we'll do is have our discussion and hopefully [sic] answer most of them.

CR: that's great; and I hope with more information you'll give us more time

Mayor: we'll see how Ccl wishes to go

MS:  I certainly share the objectives of many of the speakers, that's why I ran for Ccl, want to see effective and efficient use of our tax dollars; as you pointed out District does face a number of challenges

Fire and Police seriously over budget last year and that has to be addressed; if going to have a budget have to ensure that depts stick to it

Parks Dept, as our Fiscal Task Force recommended, need a biz plan for all our facilities and programs

need to address issue fact -- great -- that ppl who use our beaches, facilities, srs' ctr, Aq Ctr. come from outside the District.  Can we afford to be the recreational mecca for the NSh? have to have the discussion

another challenge expense control is one thing, we really have to drive our revenue base by addressing some of the assets we have, specifically land.  This bldg here, we're surrounded by property owned by the Municipality, including the lot across the street -- cd be a high rise devt with add'l office space for the District -- those issues have to be addressed by Ccl

speaking specifically about this proposed budget, don't know how to say tactfully, might sound immodest, but it happens to be a factual statement, I've been called many things in my life but incompetent not one of them

it's a bit galling to sit and listen to how there are mbrs of the cmnty who can get up to speed in a five-week period come in and solve all these financial issues and lead us to the promised land.  A bit difficult to take.

re the comments of the Finance Cmte not addressing this budget, it's true there's been a change in the cmte, four new mbrs, I don't appoint the cmte, four of the six are new on cmte, but I've been on the Finance Cmte since I was elected to this Ccl, served on the Fiscal Task Force; so I think I can speak for both the Task Force and the previous and current cmte feel directionally Ccl has to go

the direction the District needs to go

I've been working with Mr Laing and you, Madam Mayor, to address the issue of our 5.1% proposed increase initially needed to retain and maintain existing level of services; now reduced to 3.5%

how did we get to 3.5%?

glad somebody did ask;

Curiously last year cmte recommended 2.95% wch this Ccl changed at the last minute dropped to 2.45%

this year was 5.1% tax rate increase, reduced to 3.5%

one year half a per cent less, and this year half a per cent more; we have been directionally complied with the Finance Cmte, that was done with a lot of work

The Finance Cmte views were presented to Ccl by myself

so if into debating, whether 3.5 more or less, critically important ppl understand the shell game played last year 2.95% at last minute cut to 2.45%

reality is that in Nov, we had to pass a special spending bylaw wch was more than three times more than a half a per cent cut

it was a shell game and taxpayer in the middle, and no way I want to see that happen again this year.

I wd say to my fellow mbrs of Ccl, if there are cuts to be made in this budget, and I'm happy to listen to anything that makes sense, there has to be a specific cut.

if you want to cut and close a firehall to save money, that's one thing.  If you want to reduce the Police budget, that's another thing.  If you want to close the Library one day a week, that will save us money.  If we want to alternate the Aq Ctr and the new Cmty Ctr, and have one open on odd days and one on even days, great way to solve our parking problem, and wd save us money.  There's no point in railing against this 3.5% increase unless you're prepared to say what you want cut out.

that's where we have to drive the debate; the reality is if this Ccl is going to seriously address a lot of these challenges talked about that lie ahead, then this Ccl must be focused and disciplined to address issues and approach in a fact-based manner

Look forward to it; so I'm happy to sit here all night and debate it as long as anybody has anything to say.

Sop: this year, more expression, discussion than ever before in 12 years on Ccl; result of interest

timely, one common denominator; concept, concept I have, doing more for less

seen consistent budget increases, bureaucratic way of life, way grown up with

is that the way of future?

don't have industry, we don't have those luxuries

not a percentage increase; look at what is done in process can provide us with ways and means, look at efficiencies within ev dept we have, new way of budgeting

Mayor: Mr Laing--

Sop: --I haven't finished

Mayor: am sure you haven't, but so we can keep up

RL: has been followed from square one, starting recommendations from Fiscal Task Force

look for new revenue sources, more heavily involved in user-pay; done that more aggressively this year than ever in past

re Ministry requirements, really to do with the tax allocation wrt tax categories, mainly in Vancouver -- biz vs residential tax rate

Ministry wants financial plans ... the only not specifically addressed is class multiples -- we have the lowest biz class multiple in the region, it hasn't changed for some time

this is not so much about 3.5% as it is about a new direction and policy and how we budget, and it shd start in 2008, not 2009

you say indicators in there and some adjustments

there are some things in the budget I agree with -- the golf bldg; that stood for many years, unresolved, building almost disintegrated before our eyes and income decreased b/c of lack of facility;  Ccl made decision this year; will see a bldg there, a plan and efficiency and stand by that

look at Library differently see $1M provided by a Fdn, money from taxpayers in their generosity

a portion was budget in 2007 so balance this year was on lesser side

again, where are the efficiencies that come from that?

it was generous patrons, value education so get end results

a long burning issue with me, the Fire Dept, all wanted to follow rules of safety four-man, ran into prob with overtime; maybe some solution, been lingering close to ten years

where efficiencies in all that time?

if the golf bldg had been done at first, within first three years, less cost and more revenue last three years, I think so

info laid on me when I came to the office tonight, info I hadn't seen, public hasn't except picking it up tonight

interest in this budget has made us all better aware, challenging, good thing for the future

wd characterize a position, we do look to Cclr Smith and Fin Cmte, to supply us with indicators for sound fiscal advice, we're not all fiscally prudent but we try to acknowledge and understand

when we have ppl who will provide this info and knowledge for us, one wd think the Fin Cmte wd say let's roll up our sleeves and see what we can do

if you can find monies to bring it down to 3.5%, you can certainly bring it back down in the five weeks even more than that and suggest you do that; present us with something

[applause]

JC: I'll wait for the applause to die down; agree with much of Cclr Smith said

a number of letters showing ppl really don't understand the process

as we all know when you adopt a child then responsible, we're not there yet; we do have some serious problems

was a mbr of the Fiscal Sust Task Force and have been a mbr of F&Audit Cmte for past sev years

was shocked frankly, at last mtg when budget discussion was proposed by me, I'd questioned why it wasn't on the [Fin Cmte mtg] agenda, one of the new mbrs said he didn't feel he was ready or prepared to delve into the budget and that sentiment was echoed by at least two of the other three; as a result the cmte left that mtg and didn't talk about budget at all

wonder if we're prepared to spend $30M a year as a M, as a cmnty, on those two items -- two largest, not singling them out

we presently subsidize Gleneagles Rec Ctr by over $600K a year, a bldg built at 23,000sf and in fact was proposed at 33K, when I almost had my first heart attack.  Fact is we built 23,000 sf  to replace Eagle Hbr wch was 5,700 sq ft -- if that's not out of proportion, I don't know what is, but it's there

examples: where 12th meets MDr, dead end, been like that for 50 years, concrete abutment, probably worth $1M, and what do we do?  absolutely nothing!  left there

been talking about disposable lands for funds for Argyle props, circulate funds back for ppl to enjoy

I heard Mr Marley talk tonight, and I heard him say a couple of months ago, two mbrs of cmnty two eminently qualified, keenly interested, v willing to serve on the Fin Cmte

I believe we shd take them up on their offer; I really do, we have time to do this; I move we defer this for three weeks, that we appoint these two gentlemen on an interim basis (I know they're in the audience); that we direct the Finance Cmte to find ways and means to reduce this budget, and report back by  Apr 28

Sop: seconded

Mayor: vote on deferral? debate?

MS: almost at a loss for words -- there's no magic bullet

I agree with a lot of what Cclr Clark said -- absurd fire site not sold; these things unacceptable, clearly no question about it

but if ppl are looking for magic bullet, a simple solution, it all comes back to this Ccl.

Cclr Sop and Clark hv been sitting here for many, many years

I had no part of that western rec ctr, or that Gleneagles bldg allowed to deteriorate until actually unserviceable.

The point I was trying to make was that Ccl has to be more disciplined and more focused and address these issues b/c in the long run it's going to save the public money, but just to defer for three weeks and, not that I have any objection to adding more ppl to the cmte, it's absurd to suggest that in three weeks anybody cd come in and fully understand the v complicated finances of this District and make any meaningful and relevant suggestions.  To back up my point, I started off by say, if you want to make cuts, what do you want to cut out?

nobody's said a thing; it's true -- in two and a half years of sitting here, the only cut that's been presented in this Ccl Chamber, only one was when I stood up and said let's lead by example and cut our ccl stipend by 50% and of course went over like a lead balloon.  That's the only suggested cut that's ever been made.

in the meantime, there's more hot air flying around in here, the whole roof of the building will be lifted off

you can't just sit here and say there shd be a zero % tax increase, shdn't be this, shd be efficiencies, all sounds great, it's a pipe dream, it's a smokescreen, it's not there, no magic bullet

the FinCmte isn't going to be able to find all these efficiencies in next three weeks, doesn't matter who sits on it

if you want to go on with stalling tactic b/c of political posturing and acceptable to do so,

it'll make us like last year -- cut out half a per cent and then in Nov we had to pass a bylaw with three times as much money.

When are ppl going to wake up here, it's a shell game.  And you ppl are being used as the ducks (?) {well, I cdn't quite hear what that last word was, but we get the point.}

this motion might be politically expedient but makes absolutely no sense, so I'm not going to support it

JF: won't support deferral either; all have ability; get on with it

3.5% weeks ago; info that new

in general terms my comments two weeks ago

unless decide rezone Amb to highrise; difficult cmnty in terms of taxes; can't see deferring this

RD: against deferral, agree with Cclr Ferguson

looked v closely at this budget

modest increase compared with other Ms; hard to beat that, I think

things I know closely about RFID, Police, doing a good job; come back to that; going to vote against deferral

Sop: I support the deferral

distressed Cclr Smith says we're in a shell game; he's been part of everything that we've done here, in looking for guidance.  It seems to me all we're asking here is to defer this so public, Ccl, staff have enough time to go back, see are there any more efficiencies? have we gone as far as we can?

and yes, we have to find ways, examples, but just to throw hands up and say this is the best we can do, is not good enough, and I'm asking this Ccl to reverse your thoughts about this and give this a deferral to such time that we have some sensible three weeks or more, get some of these ppl in with expert advice, and let them go at it  -- that's the right thing to do!

not to just say this is the best we can do, that's not right

MS: why opposed? b/c the longer we wait, the more likely we'll run into November issue where budget's overspent

it's now April, we've got to make changes to bring this budget in on budget

The number for the Fire Dept in the 2008 budget is approximately what was spent in 2007, so if we don't make changes now, we're going to be sitting here two weeks after the election, passing another supplementary spending in November for another $1M

so my point is demonstrated -- by Cclrs Clark and Sop who've been on this ccl for 21 years and I challenge them, if you don't like this budget, just show me one thing that you'd cut out and if it makes sense, cut it right here and now, don't have to wait three weeks, and I'll support it

we have fine ppl serving on all our cmtes for a broad range of reasons, our cmtes aren't lobby groups, they're citizens that come with open minds with a broad range of skills.

we can talk about the Fin Cmte another time; it's a good FCmte

the prev Fin Cmte led by Cclr Smith and Clark, access to staff for info at any time and any mbr of the cmnty at any time so we have to have some confidence in the work of that cmte as well as the one that's coming up.

I don't think it makes sense in the middle of the budget debate

We are the decision-makers.

This is second reading.

We can decide what we want to do at second reading

we're also asked to consider third reading following this, we can defer that, but without any direction to staff with the kind of confused leadership being demonstrated by some mbrs of Ccl who will support early approval of the Library budget, who will support the Gleneagles clubhouse, who will make statements about wishing to see four firefighters on a truck, and then suggest this budget isn't supportable -- when those are some of the major drivers, that's irresponsible, so let's have--

Sop: --I beg your pardon, it is not irresponsible

Mayor: let's have second--

Sop: that's an absolute wrong statement

Mayor: I'm speaking against--

Sop: --you're speaking about me

Mayor: I'm speaking--

Sop: I don't accept that

Mayor: well wd you wish to challenge the chair?

Sop: I'll challenge the chair on the basis that all I'm asking, if in fact the staff, if the staff can find efficiencies to come down to 3.5 they sure as heck can go back and find and cut more if they choose to

and I said specifically there are certain things in the budget I accepted, there are other things in the budget that I don't, and what's wrong with going back and talking about that?

that's all it was pertaining to, so don't go zeroing in on me, just b/c I'm trying to make things improve--

Mayor: I didn't

Sop: you did

Mayor: I did not

Sop: you did, specifically to me

Mayor: I'm speaking against deferral and in favour of second reading

Sop: well, then you don't have to get personal

Mayor (at same time): third reading follows that; I didn't

Sop: you did.

Mayor: I wd like to call the question on deferral

Mayor: now we're at second reading

don't believe Cclr Ferguson or Day gave thoughts; ample opp to do at second reading

RB: if there's no motion on the table

Mayor: yes, still introducing; shd put the motion on the floor

JF: number of emails, comments this evening, won't go over my comments of two weeks ago

wd make some answers to some queries

concern expressed about an over-bloated admin and some shd be expecting our directors to take a salary cut and be pleased to work in WV

also heard of staff being accused of obfuscation and time I have spent on this Ccl, never encountered any obfuscation

any enquiries I've had or any I've heard the public make have been responded to in a manner of great integrity, sincerity, and capability

and I'm v proud of the directors, and of all of the staff in WV; one of the ppl who came to the mic this evening said how proud he was to live in WV, I wd have to agree and am particularly proud of loyal and hard-working staff

it has been my observation over last few years, increasingly difficult to recruit for WV b/c of high cost of living; have to commute an hour b/c can't afford to live here

3.5% tax increase is not an outrageous amt; $97 for an av assessment of $1.4M

less than it costs for me to have newspapers delivered to my cmnty

don't think that's a bad investment; think it's a v good investment

Sop: may I ask what the purpose is of adding this new section is?

Mayor: we're just discussing the property tax distribution policy that needs to be articulated now, wch deals with the different property classes

Sop: why are you adding it in now, Mr Laing? why is it being added now?

Mayor: in favour?

Sop: opposed

Mayor: this is just good reporting; now do we now read into the record second reading?

YES

MS: move second reading

RD: ITAC has done a good job and we value what they've done, they've had input and we've listened; think they've raised some questions we will want answers to, also red and orange questions

by proceeding we're not ignoring  thoughts and criticisms; we're listening and will get some answers for them

a couple of areas I have more interest in

re Library, I sit on the Board and it's misleading to say throwing away RFID, $650K, without any real thought or care

the board autonomous, citizens analyze thoroughly, it was over $1M and RFID was part of general remaking of the circulation system, better processing techniques, also wd refashion the system, main desk particularly, create more office space and more mtg rooms, make the Library more efficient, of the million dollars, 60% paid for by the Library Fdn, $400K was already in the budget so only paying $250K

if hadn't voted we wd have lost 60% of the financing from the Library Fdn; perfectly reasonable, in fact enlightened; make it more efficient and save us money

Police: the stats we see is faster than other two NSh Ms; last month made some changes, quite well run

discussion with Fire Union, planning to hire five more fire ppl; solving this problem of overtime

we're doing a lot of things, in making cmnty run more efficiently

ppl mention the golf course, we just voted to redo; don't understand criticism, not earlier b/c building other facilities ppl really like -- ppl are going to love the new Cmnty Ctr, going to cost money just as they do the Aq Ctr

all-weather fields, love Gleneagles, admit bit of a Cadillac, but it's being used, will more -- growth in West and we'll be glad we build that facility some day; maybe now on expensive side.

finally about staff; been on Ccl ten years and then six years, 16 years; not saying ev staff mbr has been perfect; been really impressed with our staff, hard-working, honest, give of their time, they care about their cmnty and give of their time.  I just think it's unfair to bash the staff all the time,

not getting more money than other Ms, we're in a labour market shortage; if you cut salaries they're going to leave; just lost a good mbr of Planning Dept and went over to Vanc

more demand than supply these days; slash their salaries and you're not going to be far worse served, or served the way you've been served.

you have excellent facilities, excellent staff, and a Ccl and staff that manage your finances v carefully

Sop: guess this whole exercise is not about individuals, more about process; said that from the beginning

end result showed us that there was a figure; we have no interplay, in how in fact each dept comes to their eventual end -- so how do you make an informed decision other than end result?

and that end result came to $7.5M, and lo and behold, it was dropped by $500K and rate then down to 3.5%

that's really the injustice here in this quick rush to judgement to get this thing passed rather than not

RB: remind them in 2002 when the exempt salary policy was adopted there was fully disclosed, outside consultants steps, things of that nature; fully reviewed with Ccl at that time

RL: I hardly know where to start

this budget process began last July; staff came to Ccl with, to initiate a discussion as to what wd be the basis, what wd be the targets

for 2008

we clarified what Ccl wanted to see, service changes

showed figs and estimates, we agreed and got approval from F&A Cmte an Ccl and agreed on target of 3%

Staff spent many many hours

getting to 3% was extremely challenging and along the way we made reports to Ccl, v challenging and difficult to find it

partway through we talked about the role of fees and charges

met with Ccl on at least three occasions, talked about the details, staff assn, union staff, staff in every dept

encouraged to think outside the box

put together over a hundred proposals, did vetting, some nonstarters

reviewed material with Ccl, got a preliminary indication, go ahead

did achieve our targets of 3%, two items outside not within the 3%; this document indicating six pages of detail proposed under infrastructure fund to form basis

following that, Ccl approved what process was going to be

a budget newsletter and got approval for where we were, there were add'l issues

in the end, more extensive process, far more comment, a lot of discussion; discussion of Fire issue, Police issue, fees and subsidies; cost of Cmnty Ctr

to Ccl, what budget wd look like; rationale

instructed to draft bylaws on that basis; and we did that

knowing where one stands in the process is a valuable thing; I guess we haven't known that

Sop: what info are you going to supply on operating budget or financial plan before final reading? exempt staff, wch wd be how it wd relieve us of any peculiarities or any interest that wd be valuable to us

RL: I did miss one step.  The Dir of HR did make at least two detailed presentations to Ccl on staff compensation, including compensation rates for ev Director in this room, Ccl knows and has known for some time, what our salary rates are

the FIA report that we're working on right now does not give you compensation information

it give you cash flow information a year late

you're going to see, for example, in my case, I was paid out three weeks of vacation I cdn't take in the previous year

you're going to see payout of banks, those kinds of things

that is not compensation, that is not expenditure for purposes of this budget.

if no way of finding efficiencies anywhere within the method this M adopts to do budgeting, fair enough, but we don't have all the information

RL: I'm not talking personalities, talking process, approval dates, milestones, moving the process along, knowing at each step where we need to be

MS: Mr Laing has summarized it thoroughly and effectively

hope I can speak more calmly than earlier

bn a huge amount of time and effort, not just Mr Laing and his staff

all heads, ev dept was leaned on to meet this objective Ccl set, 3%, and a lot of things fell out

some, can build solid biz case shd be in there but money determined not to be there

finally, this budget pays for the existing levels of services with some modest additions, a few more firefighters,  police cars, training in Police Dept

fire and crime don't stop at our border

true there are choices Ccl can make but tough

staff can only do so much; they've ground it to death

It's now April, got to make immediate changes to some of the ways we're operating if we're going to meet this budget

if not want to pass this budget, I can accept that, but as long as somebody says this shd be cut out.

let's change the library hours, change Aq Ctr hours, let's not pave roads as planned; legitimate conversation and prepared to have the debate

the only thing we can do to reduce this from 3.5%, wch as Cclr F says is $8 a month, is to cut programs and services, and I'm prepared to listen to rational suggestions but I haven't heard any

countless hours staff have spent grinding down, point has to be duly noted

JF: some comments wrt process; found thorough, maybe more than any of my years on Ccl

evidenced by much larger mbrs of public prepared to put in more time, hours and hours

have heard concern about the quality of info staff put out

In 2006 and 2007, our budget booklets have won awards, national awards from the Govt Finance Officers Assn, for being so inclusive, so deep, and so easy to read and understand

I find myself wondering how indeed we can improve this process

maybe not this go-round but my hope is that our FCmte will be able to make some viable suggestions to meet the needs of the cmnty who seem to feel that our process doesn't pass muster, that there's something lacking; hopefully [sic] we can get that information so we can improve what goes on

Mayor: I wasn't on Ccl when that exempt staff review in 2002 took place, but I was aware Ccl was phasing in that approach, adjusting for what was fair seemed to be reasonable and prudent, so you see these adjustments in certain years

was not on Ccl when decided to build Gleneagles C Ctr, but my goodness, it's an institution out west, it's there now; we're all responsible for it

don't understand the point in acting like we're stewards

agree it cd be better used and that's root of putting a board for the new Cmnty Ctr; key to broader cmnty use

wrt our land sales prog, that languished but has a first class Land Agent in Gordon Reid, pulling forward in a systematic way with what we can do with pieces of land we've got

when we looked at old firehall site, real interest to participate; housing dialogue, so that is working out

really important to understand what our staff do: they cd focus on not answering the phone

they deal with things that come up ev week like dogs, policy, field allocations, childcare crises that arise work with parents, access, parking at Collingwood

we have a facilitative staff, that's increasing the criteria for who we need

have taken four parks positions into two, we have no parks plan, haven't had one for 31 years

basically saying to the Envmt WG, we're not funding your priorities

no funding for work on 21st, have plans for; no pottery studio; no connection to Srs' Ctr

I have had more comments on what we don't have and who we're serving than I have about the 3.5% budget

That is not to say our tax base is going to be able to continue in this vein

I think we all understand that

What I have tried to do, and I take full responsibility for the increase in the Mayor and Ccl budget, b/c that's my assistant, there was one person that was shared between many in the admin dept down here, and I have made it a priority to connect with partners, and we have seen the benefit of that.  I think this Ccl has driven more revenue by taking a diff approach than in prior years

when it comes to the bids: we do it ourselves if it's cheaper, like the bridge in Eagle Harbour built by one of our worksyard guys from recycled lumber wch cost 15% of what it wd hv cost to contract it out.

We don't take our big rocks up to Squamish for same reason, we crush and re-use them

same with green waste, innovation of our staff goes on and on

RFID, why we do if if we can't save money, it's the demand of the average library patron in WV goes up and up and up

progs at Lib, a couple of hundred that didn't exist six years; staff rise to the occasion

I think Cclr Smith is right; can't ask a lot more

if we go too much farther without a proper sensible approach, not a last-minute approach, then we risk losing some of our v best

and we let ourselves down b/c we live in a cmnty that can figure things out, and I think that's what ITAC is saying

That's welcome and won't participate in impugning the motives of any citizen or any mbr of this Ccl

Cclr Sop, when I said some mbrs, I shd have said ev mbr, ev person sitting at this table has supported the Library, golf clubhouse, four on a firetruck, I think that's something we shd be proud of, beginning last July, ev mbr of Ccl huge impact, huge input, see highly responsive staff

from my point of view, you're right, were stewards of the process just b/c someone doesn't like outcome doesn't mean  anything was wrong how we got to this point

can argue school taxes shdn't be and many in local govt wd

glad we're at second reading; interested in any further comments by mbrs of Ccl

important to hold in our heads, we're on the same team, trying to do best for our cmnty

staff in middle and know have done a lot of work

Sop: b/c one goes against for other reasons, that suddenly we're bad guys; we're pulling together for this cmnty and taxpayers

find odd, rather progressive that Mr Laing on p 3, states "Ms will be required to provide more detail purposes in making choices of the matters of the budget, direction heading and how get there from here."

long range

It talks about being specific about what you're going to do, we can no longer do a corp biz plan that is not tied to finance costed out with a biz plan, yet we've done that for several years

some semblance of costing, put staff through with milestones to a point going sideways

cost associated to it; everybody tried their best

let's make some inroads to the way we do financing for sustainability for the taxpayer

nobody's the bad guy here

Mayor: I think we have that

all that's changed is something we've had all along, into their wording to meet criterian, not as if not already doing it ; similar with biz plan probably first in prov to have biz plan; similarly with our annual reports that have won GFOA awards two years in a row, tend to be leading

with our budget docs, Mr Laing and I did look at both NVs and they're v good

We have all that material, we haven't put it into one

but we'll be beginning work on that right away and we think we'll have the best one

Ccl is committed to review of Police Services; driven by NV and b/c they wish to see level WV has

We are the standard.

Question on second reading

Sop: polled vote, pls

[JF aye, JC nay, Mayor aye, RD aye, Sop nay, MS yes]

Mayor: now that's perfectly clear.  Third reading.

MS: then read a third time

Sop: polled vote

[JF aye, JC nay, Mayor aye, RD aye, Sop nay, MS yes]

JF: approaching 10 o'clock move extend mtg

9:55 DONE

Sop: curious today, went out to site; area is in middle of devt, beautiful homes there

in reading the report no

Mr Sokol, p 85 the map, nine props, to dedesignate a portion that appears to be Lot 1

by dedesignation of park land, does that provide the dvpr with a new lot?

lots 2 to 8 -- does it decrease value of lot

Sokol: shifting of lot lines; no building, no change of parcels

the area shaded b/c of slope, grade of land can't be used as park as M intended

area added much more beneficial for M purposes

Sop: will that shaded area be a lot for building?

Sokol: cannot answer that question but they told me no

does it become a bonafide lot?

RB: I posed a similar question to the former Dir/Planning and it was explained to me the small portion on lot 1, unshaded, is buildable currently

b/c of terrain not much, minimal add'l value

Sop: but 5Ksf of prop -- when I look, maybe diagram is wrong

shows part of lot 1.  you're saying we'll give up?

RB: it currently is a buildable

Sokol: wd be able to build on portion not originally designated park

Sop what kind of house

RB: that's a fair-sized lot

Sop: is this a gain to the dvpr and a loss to the taxpayer

RB: we've been told there isn't; and Mr Nicholls is here to explain

SJN who magically emerged from the corridor: number of lots remains the same

.... rock wall here; this is beside path

we're gaining more space and we're getting land; giving away what wd be a liability

the dvpr has indicated already given more land for greenbelt

Stephen Jenkins and Parks Dept prefer this

Sop: area we're giving up in red, house on that location?

SJN: no, expanded; in 7, 8, 9 approved by Ccl when original greenbelt

unless this goes ahead, whole subdivision plan

PASSED

8.  CONSENT AGENDA ITEMS  --  Consent Agenda Items - Reports and Correspondence

JF: withdraw item 52

12.       Correspondence List [Complete list in previous issue of WVM]

JF: not able to get timely taxi services

consumer; taxi bill of rights; a number of ppl in this cmnty, particularly elderly with mobility probs

copy of letter shd be sent to all, particularly Srs' Ctr

changes made to way ppl treated

RB: staff will be sending a submission along those lines

JF: if ppl calling taxis.

MS: first mtg of Cmnty Ctr governance group; fruitful and productive mtg; think that group will do a good job

JF: brief update on Sports WG; chaired by Mary Jo Campbell, three subcmtes Sports field allocations

Don McTavish asked more questions about a legal case, wondering if $1.5M in budget to pay contractor's claim on Aquatic Ctr plus legal fees, yet again told wd get letter and since a legal matter wd not be discussed at ccl mtg.  Told wd be covered by insurance but he said it wdn't be covered by insurance.  He asked if a stall and wd go on for ten years (saying that was a joke).

what have we received?

the info we want has not been forthcoming; can we expect an advance release of this info or are you just going to dump 5000 pages on our desk?  We feel--

reality is we have to find staff for this request; we're working to find someone to do this; huge job, that's what's taken time; big request, ev sgl email

Mayor: it's working through requirements huge task; wd like to provide you with a date

defer to Ms Scholes; it's ultimately her responsibility and her staffing

largest request we've ever received; legislative requirements for further extensions, looking at that; given the volume, a line by line review, can't give you a date until I have further info

Mayor: I see you've got water levy down here

so here's a 35-unit complex not paying a thing and yet 12 units, a year ahead

how a universal tax when not across the board; seems v v unfair to me

Mayor: we'll look at that, been a couple; glad you brought to our attn.  Mr Barth, will you follow up.

EB: the speaker cd give me his contact info at end of the mtg and I'd be happy to do that.

Mayor: marvellous, scope, but have had a few.

CR: thank you.  Listening to the budget discussion earlier after the public spoke, I was both astonished and confused

I don't think anybody -- well, I haven't read all the letters that have come in -- but I don't think anyone has suggested any staff salaries be cut and I think most of us are pleased with most of what the staff do, and I think that shd be made clearer.

Whereas most of us wd be pleased with a deferral, when Cclr Smith mentioned that this cd be opened again at third reading, I suppose that's the fallback position b/c I was astonished since Cclr Vaughan was not here, you wdn't have at least paid the courtesy to wait till next Monday for the second reading b/c if you anticipate changing second or third reading next week, there's no difference then between deferring it from now to then.

So the questions I do want to ask--

I know I put 2006 remuneration information in West Van Matters 2007-25 last year and I sort of counted on the fact that they said the remuneration for this year wd be available a week ago

so I'm just confused

I mean he must realize, all of you must realize, that if we're lacking some of the info, that pretty well hobbles us from making the practical suggestions we wd like to make.  If we can't make practical suggestions when we've got all the info, then we know this is all we can do, but to not give us the info, and then blame us for not coming up with practical solutions does seem a little unfair, so my hope is--

Mayor: --I don't think anybody's laying any blame on anybody.  We've all reiterated that.

CR: okay. So.  when will we get the information we've asked for?

Mayor: on the land question, these are land deals, as I'm sure you are aware,

so I'm not sure what that wd look like. Mr Beauchamp?

RB: regarding land inventory, staff have been working on land inventory

and normally the way the process wd work, when Ccl determined any land for disposition

then there wd be public process for that, whether it's lane closure or disposition of property so it certainly wd become public info at that time.

Mayor: as we go

Mayor: then I don't know the question --

Mayor: not sure what you're actually looking for

EB: if I may, if it's simply a list of M-owned property, we shd be able to pull something together b/c I know my division was involved in trying to put together an inventory to assist Ccl in terms of looking at potential props that cd be sold.  I cd certainly go back and find out what the status of that is and try to get something out.

CR: thank you; simply a list, nothing to do with you want to do with it obviously

Sokol: the difficulty of that list is you do the initial cut of all the M-owned land and you get street ends, right-of-ways, and it's a matter of culling through that list to actually get to the point to determine--

Mayor: --and how much staff time

And if somebody says we don't have all the street ends, that's fine, just give us what you have then, it doesn't have to be the whole list.

Another thing I wanted to bring up tonight not mentioned -- The Cmnty Dialogue WG mtg wch was cancelled for tomorrow night and moved to 15th is now back on for the 8th tomorrow night, if anyone is interested in that.

In retrieving money, one of the other questions I got given an advertisement for a physiotherapy company, giving the address as the Aquatic Ctr.  Do we charge, do we have companies who actually rent places and use our M address as a biz address, and if we do, I hope we're getting market value for that.

KP: yes, we do and yes, we are.

CR: great, that's a good thing; tyvm

[Item 13, oral Ccl reports were received for information]

Mayor: I forgot to accept the Ccl reports.  in favour? carried

Mayor: Bruce McArthur.  v nice cover story

BMcA: I want to get a plug in for the WRA.  I'm also chair of the Horseshoe Bay - BC Ferries Corp liaison cmte, and I met with the terminal agent, Jason Bowman, this afternoon.  Dave Patrick and I went down and talked  with him over concerns in the area over noise generated by the new Coastal Renaissance ferry.  Mr Bowman was v obliging and passed the info to us that they're going through some base-line sound studies, and that we were going to try to work together with the cmte, and as Mr Barth is also on the liaison cmte, thought I wd let Ccl know the WRA is trying to gather information and we're working with the terminal agent.  Ferries has been v cooperative in trying to work with the cmnty and just thought I'd pass that on.

Mayor: appreciate that; he phoned me last week and mentioned he was going to contact you and I really think we have to thank Mr Bowman and you for forging that relationship.  It's a marked difference, I think, the attn we're getting from BC Ferries in the nbrhd.

wrt impact of construction on salmon streams and rivers, the worst example is the damage done by the Upper Levels Hwy wch impacted streams we're still getting over.

CPTnet  10 April 2008  HEBRON: Press conference for Hebron orphanages

     The Popular Committee for Supporting the Orphanages hosted a press conference at the Hebron Girls Orphanage on 7 April 2008. Approximately seventy people attended, including independent media, internationals, and clergy. The Israeli military had given orders to shut down the orphanages and schools run by the Islamic Charitable Society by 7 April.

     The lawyer representing the Islamic Charitable Society spoke of the its work, which serves 2,500 children, 240 of them orphans, and aids an additional 4,000 students and 5,000 needy families. The society also runs a dairy, two bakeries, a warehouse, and four small storefronts that serve the schools and orphanages in the Hebron area. The Israeli military raided the warehouse, bakeries, and the storefronts on 6 March 2008, confiscating food, clothing, school supplies, refrigerators, and two buses worth $300,000.

     The lawyer also noted that certified public accountants audit and the Palestinian Authority monitors the monies donated to support the orphanages and schools. The books are open for the Israeli government to audit as well. Twenty percent of the monies donated come from the Hebron local community. The other eighty percent comes from Europe, the U.S., and Middle Eastern countries. The Islamic Charitable Society enjoys the respect of both locals and non-governmental organizations such as Catholic Charities.

     During the conference, Rabbi Arik Ascherman of Rabbis for Human Rights addressed the audience via speakerphone, saying that under Jewish law, evidence and witnesses must be brought before the court to support an accusation. Because the Islamic Charitable Society has threatened no human life, Ascherman contended, the Israeli authorities cannot cite security issues to justify a closure.

     Members of CPT and other internationals have slept at the orphanages to accompany the staff and children and to document any possible incursion by the Israeli military. By midnight of 7 April, the attorney for the Israeli military had asked for an extension to prepare and submit to the court a full justification for the closures of the schools and orphanages.

===   BOOKWATCH   ===  Review from NYT Review of Books

also  http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/b/benazir_bhutto/index.html

===  POLITI-KU --  2008 Apr 8 --  thinking of Kenya and now Zimbabwe

===  HAIKU --  2008 Apr 10

Popular Saying:  Tell your boss the truth, and the truth shall set you free.

Don't know who said this:  In wine there is wisdom, in beer there is freedom, in water there is bacteria.