Main Items Apr 21st: Public Hearing on Pat's Restaurant site (445 - 23th); Ambleside Village Town Ctr's Proposed OCP for first reading May 26; first reading of Collingwood (Wentworth) Zoning Amendment, Devt Permit, then Public Hearing May 28; Measuring Up Initiative

=  Vive le Canada (100 years ago); from the EDITOR'S DESK (Bash-Free, WatchLabradoodle, CBs, Spam, Free Speech/Press); AMIMALWATCH (otters, ribboned sea dragons); UPDATES (DWV Salaries, Sport Award Winners); NEWSWATCH (Child brides at ten, Nablus dream house)

=  CALENDAR to Apr 30th (check for changes and updates); bit of May

=  Apr 14th Ccl NOTES: RODGERS Crk DEVT PLAN; Fire & Rescue WG report; Old Growth Conservancy Strategy for Protection; Apr 16 sp ccl mtg moved to May 1; FINANCIAL INFORMATION ACT REPORT (2007 Salaries and Expenses); Five-Yr Financial Plan (Budget 2008) colourful rescind or adopt debate; PQP on Hugo Ray Park (MRIF grant application denied), on $800K CB, my request for a Bash-Free Zone and attempt to find out how/who find out about contracts/tendering/bids......

=  Apr 21st Ccl AGENDAs

=  Correspondents' Corner (Global Warming; WRA -- WVPD and Gleneagles); HERITAGEWATCH (Sidmouth, UK); Language (Word Connoisseur Dies; Long Live the Semicolon!); Haiku; Quotations

    1908: January Royal Cdn Mint opens; March, founding of UBC; September, founding of U of Alberta.

=  otters holding hands: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epUk3T2Kfno

=  new creature at the Vancouver Aquarium: leafy sea dragon, weedy sea dragon. ribboned sea dragon?

>>>  Council Chambers shd be a 'bash-free' zone.  My recommendation after hearing one cclr's accusations during the mtg of bashing staff, a couple of cclrs insult other cclrs and 'experts', at least two cclrs feel insulted.

>>>  Cclr Clark stated that cclrs shd be watchdogs for the public and spending their money -- but keep in mind, I'm a labradoodle!

>>>  Speak up if you want a say in what the money we get from Cmnty Benefits is spent on -- it only took me about 20 years to get Ccls to accept the concept of Uplift, then to have a policy and hope for 75% of increased in value we as residents 'give' to devprs, so that mention made for Ev Dr and 24th and Marine, so now we're focused on 13th & Marine (not much change) and Rodgers Drk -- from 160 or 375 units to 538 or 736 units PLUS uncounted accessory stes/bldgs -- HUMONGOUS increase in value....

>>> SPAM

You must have a spam filter, as we do.

We restricted it so much at one point that even our customers cdn't get through.  It's been throttled back but it still means 90% of the many hundreds of email I get daily are spam and have to be deleted.  As a result of some questions, discovered that our spam filter is deleting over 10K email msgs per day that we don't even see!

Impersonation is the other spam that bugs me.  Especially when it purports to come from me!  The first time it happened I was utterly shocked   Now you just have to shrug it off.  This is, however, my warning to you if you haven't already experienced it yourself.  If you get something from someone you know and it appears strange, if you look carefully, it's likely spam under an assumed name.  Best to check.

>>>  at PEN talk: Free Speech, Free Press in Canada? http://www.seriouslyfreespeech.ca/

===   NEWSWATCH   === from BBC

~ Child brides 'sold' in Afghanistan -- Jenny Cuffe looks at claims that child marriages are on the rise, due to poverty in Northern Afghanistan.   A small excerpt:

"A nine or 10-year-old - you give her away for wheat and two cows."...

Rest on the website: http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/em/fr/-/2/hi/programmes/7342902.stm

~  The curse of the Nablus dream house by Aleem Maqbool  BBC News, Nablus

Six years ago, Abdul-Latif Nasif and his two brothers built their family home on one of the hills over-looking the West Bank city of Nablus.  Rest at http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7309082.stm

Keep in mind: amts are for 2007 so at least 3% more just been passed for this year; some remuneration amts include taxable benefits, etc but benefits are roughly 30% of the base salary.  Nice elevator.

CBC will run this feature on Sunday night (20th) on the 11pm news on Channel 3.  This show will likely be repeated during the noon news on Monday 21st, also on Channel 3.

WEST VANCOUVER STREAMKEEPERS -- The Adopt-a-Fish Event is held in Memorial Park in conjunction with Coho Society of the North Shore and with assistance from the Memorial Library from 10am to 1pm. Everyone is welcome to this family event.

        ~ 10am - 3pm ~ Earth Day & Outdoor Celebration at Gleneagles Cmnty Ctr

OR you might want to go to the Chamber's Showcase from 5 - 7pm at Cafe Trafiq

Free but RSVP to Chamber required for appetizer preparation (926 6614)

        ~ 4 - 10pm ~ YPAC Family Carnival in Ambleside Park (also 25th, 26th, 27th)

        ~ 4pm ~ Fire & Rescue WG (check to see if mtg still on after reporting to Ccl)

        ~ 6:30pm ~ Cmnty Sport Forum -- Hosted by Cmnty Sport WG at Sentinel School Library

        ~ Check to see if there's a ChildCare Forum

+++  WV MEMORIAL LIBRARY +++ see www.westvanlib.org

        Group exhibition of artists from Arts Connection Networking Salon

+++ SILK PURSE (1570 Argyle) www.silkpurse.ca

~ 55 % of 215 acres remain green; six distinct and separate devt areas, ~1.875M sq ft

mtn pathway and trail network envisioned connecting areas to each other and village and Cypress Village to the west

nine provisions, public places, activity nodes,... diversity, sustainability, ....

Sop: one of the better devts in BC; first class

requirements for amenities; nbrs, fantastic walkway

500 to 700 units --  4000 units in buildout of OCP

to move along and arbitrarily say, not there yet; shd move, rapid speed, but some homework WE have to do

JC: share kudos to WG; tremendous piece of work; thoughtful, diligent, buy-in from staff, generally from Ccl but some small concerns; quite a unique situation; haven't seen such completeness in my time here; this consultative type of work proven fruitful

taxpayers out of pocket about $1M a year; every time we add $400K you add 1% to the tax bill, at least 2% per year more b/c of firehall requirement

what happens to quality of life, down streets, looking for parking spots around Library, Aq Ctr, etc; same per capita use as popn using them; means add'l users, depending option 375 and 736 new households

add one more category to what I said, from a mbr of public who said if we go from 375 units without increasing density, that predicts the popn increase; but if going to more than double, b/c proposal there of allowing secondary suites; looking at perhaps 900 or more households

OCP topping at 50K and we're at 43 or 44K now; First Nations, their devt cd add thousands

public has to see this, shd look at documents we've been shown that the public hasn't received yet; can't start before public has had time to look at all this, come to terms, think about it....

not that shdn't build, think they'll be nice up there; friends and family might want to buy

so much to digest, to take in; gets confusing with too many numbers or statistics

Mayor: not bylaws tonight; just big questions any cclr has immediately

person at Workshop living near Rodgers Crk, 100 trucks a day going past her door; see in paper nearly half not safe; address how construction materials get into the site                               

need to hear from staff how these numbers, um, pulling numbers out of hat, uh, these numbers don't add up; b/c clearly significant advantage to the devprs by upzoning number of units from 375 to 736; as said by other cclrs

WV needs definitely to share in that increased value, so that's my short comments

JF: agree with many comments made so far; looking forward to answers from staff and perhaps devpr

Areas 1 and 2 good; future residents are going to use amenities; service deliveries, fire, police; nice to have some facts to support that, if cd be found; well-known aspect of densification

RD: interesting to hear Ccl's views; wd like to reply to a few points made; not necly for staff report but for discussion purposes

wch is probably what dvpr/owner cd get as opposed to 375, so you have to understand that, that the 375 is an absolute minimum, the dvpr might be able to get more by complying with certain aspects of the OCP

OCP mentions envmtal sustainability, consistent with mtnside terrain, don't want flat Saskatchewan-type housing on a mtnside

secondly, if more density, public transit becomes more possible; also possible multifam buildings better heat retention, geothermal heating

existing lot sizes quite large up there, 5000 sqft being allowed on 15Ksf lots, and if you have smaller units, 800sf instead of 5K you're not going to have more cars, even if you have more units.

and many of the Option A townhouses and aptmts are 2500sf, most of them

the average is much higher in Option A than in B

The applicant, British Properties, lists these parcels 1 and 2,  between them 50 acres, as currently zoned are indeed 2.5upa; but parcels 3, 4, 5, and 6, totalling between them about 155 acres, are currently zoned 1.5upa,  so interpreting the OCP as I've been given to understand, that really means per buildable acre, and when you look at what we have here, only 43% built on, so apply that factor to this 300 and some units that we're getting when in reality it comes out to more like 160 units and anything above that based on agreement of Ccl

I was curious myself; the old part of Brit Props, didn't count unbuildable terrain, creeks and roads, so I went to Mr Stuart before he left for a fair and candid opinion from him.  I posed a hypothetical question and said if he had a 20-acre site that was zoned two houses per acre, and it had a ten-acre  lake on it, does that mean you can build four units on the remaining ten acres

this is an important question Cclr V raises, and it's worth getting a proper opinion on it

RS7 talks about min lot size, but has unique provision est'd at 2.5 so you can move that density around on that site; I can see that both answers right -- the one from the former MMgr, but that's not based on the RS7 zone

The RS7 zone wd allow 375 across, and that's combination of the RS7 and RS8 zones, so 1.5 and 2.5; bit unusual

In the RS2 zone, we don't talk about upa or gross acre, but about min lot size instead; to allow variation, a recognition of the difficult terrain in the area

Mayor: does that help? I think a lake is an extreme example, a steep slope different; v imp understanding

VV: we need a legal opinion b/c significant b/c it alters the value of the land and potentially the CBs we might ask for substantially

what we do traditionally is not the same  we're obliged to do legally

going to have smaller units, so probably need more of them to provide number of ppl for public transit, shopping facilities, fewer cars

BPP came to us quite some time ago about RCrk, and we said you had better look at entire area, complete picture, so Rodgers Crk was born and framework and laid out in overview report

hope will continue that; next devt, number of units and it's right around the corner

said tonight valuable; get that fair straight talk to BPP as far as amenities are concerned, and all that goes with it, and we can move as long as we get those things answered and the sooner the better

Mayor: recognize the WG for taking us from the 1930s to the 21st century; WG feels adheres to OCP

OCP is of these times; going a long way in a short space of time; good job

need better understanding of upa and what our baseline obligation is; what buildout looks like

if we're shooting for no more 50K if that's what we can sustain; what will it look like; road network, traffic impact, construction

CBs and amenities, and Ccl's straining to say, will you consider yourselves as part of whole cmnty; it's us, not separate; for betterment of this and cmnty as a whole

Cclr V, we may not feel we're ready but this is long overdue; thanks to WG, they dealt with big questions most want us to think of

Sop: not been defined enough, a) the no of units b) lot size apply to c) sep unit to house d) impact and what cd it be, rental unit or inlaw suite or whatever, density increase -- you're talking to another 100 units; there's a happy meeting place somewhere, can't quite put my finger on it

devpr wd say we can do everything for you; next devt in ten years will have another demand

JF: no 7?

JC: the whole plan shd be considered by the Housing Dialogue WG

Mayor: okay

we can't go ahead and do that in Upper Lands and not simultaneous the rest; can't make the distinction; look as a whole

need ev to be paying prop tax, one dwelling unit not two, so one prop tax not two; again challenges ability to finance all these services; significant thing to consider

RD moved: Ccl request a staff report, refer report to HDial Cmte, and CB report

shd we have a date?

Sokol: I have a concern about forwarding the entire report to the Housing Dialogue Cmte; they have a fairly full plate and what we're essentially doing is referring one WG report that met 20 times to another; my request to focus that charge down a little bit

Mayor: thank you, consider that as we move forth

RD: staff report wrt questions raised; May 5th too soon?

agree with Sokol, we've studied this 14 mos and 20 mtgs; lay ppl will have to deal with this, obviously public; will take months; read sieve analysis, analysis of terrain, go back to Upper Lands report in 2000; overview report in March -- a lot of reading; can't do overnight; unless semi-informed opinion, worries me

give to another WG to thrash around -- what did they find out about infill?

might recommend proper way to go, maybe all right in RCrk but....

spent an inordinate amt of time to get to this doc; v good pieces here; wd like report and if it takes two weeks, so be it

JF: against this proposed motion; will surprise Cclr Sop but I agree with him

Dialogue WG will inform; imp we get opinion wrt item 7; bylaw may be amended later to whatever we decide

RD: I'll vote for this, Housing Dialogue can give good...

shd mention the accessory housing idea came from some enthusiastic mbrs of the WG, not central, throw it out, what's central is Option A and B, acceptable to WG and dvprs; HDialogue re A or B

v interested to know this recommendation arose here, might help their thinking, enquiring

JC: not going to take it apart piece by piece, giving odd pages or even!

RD: Ccl refer to WG, look at 6 and 7

JC: let it work itself through; the RCrk continue its good work

Sop: only 6 and 7, don't want to get it tied up; all I wanted was about accessory bldgs

JC: met almost weekly; did an amazing job

Chair: brief overview;

fire response standards and regulations

significant for us, aspects of WV affect -- long narrow stretch, sea level to 1200ft; difficult small narrow roads

O/T costs high in recent years

we recommend four halls and four crew per truck be maintained

add four more firefighters, currently 88 analyzed shifts

hand in hand is our request to increase staff flexibility to reduce O/T; measurable; contingent on achieving this reduction of O/T

quicker access to diagnostics and treatment

study to compare; expedited private health care

potential add'l sources of revenue; get portion of new carbon tax b/c of hwy

expand, provide better info for new homes so safer for firefighters in a new dwelling

2008 renovations at Hall No 4 for Co-Ed facilities, recommend 2009 completion

E-Comm merits further consideration

signif future costs: vehicles, replace firetrucks, mntnce, expectations; seismic upgrades 3 of 4 halls

annual add's to reserve acct; seeking contributions from devpr and prov govt -- hwy and ferries

WV has an ageing popn, likely higher number of calls for medical aid, that's why a smaller response vehicle

F&R better cooperation with BC Ambulance; share services where efficient

wd not be a good? use of time

Concluding comments {Please see report attached to this item on the agenda}

Sop: logical, some of the recommendations

never were addressed; outside union negotiations

need new training ground or any of the cost factors, cd come by way of a really good biz plan

Report back to Ccl

[Corinne Ambor and Alan Bardsley]

CA: June 2006 old growth strategy approved

trails removed and replace by a new trail [slides]

Society formed to help with mgmt, done Dec 2006

many cmnty events, will see them on Earth Day, Sunday

met ev month; success story of conservation

discussions insightful and passionate; learning and sharing of ideas; breaking new ground

rerouting of rec trail

took over a year of discussion, site visits, exchange of information

recreation, lure of mtn biking

decided to keep trail where it is, Trail "A"; result of some v thorough discussion

two interests: recreation and conservation; managed to work together

ongoing education of the public; opens door to grant applications

been a privilege and learning experience to work with such a diverse and X group

AB: tremendous opp; opened up lines of communication

Corinne has done a superb job bringing these two groups together

onsite reviews with OGCS, DWV staff, Mtn Bikers

first considered a new trail outside the conservancy and made no sense to move the trail wrt impact

best to position Trail A to accommodate and decommission B, skid road

trail cd be used for education; approved by Board but not unanimously; discussed at AGM in January

Sop: why permit use of?

CA: been in use for 15 years; staging area; use exists; cd block off but same forest so why duplicate impact some meters away and no guarantee it wd be used

past practice has shown that when you decommission, if you station someone there

AB: basically there b/c of parking lot, or it wdn't be there

Sop: trails and education; bottom almost touching bike area -- too steep or?

CA: cd be done, but cost

Sop: been accepted? anxious to see what plans you have for this beautiful area

CA: keeping this trail as a recreational area does .... opportunities

JC: short of someone at each end of the trail, how does it work?

CA: if you give a viable alternative; Trail A is already the alternative; B is already growing in

if A filled in; parking lot 5 provides ....

JC: take their mind off it and they'll go through

[Sop made motion]

JF: can imagine amt of focus; concessions; how rewarding to learn other side's perspective and the awareness; will be best for old growth in the long term

how we can continue to strengthen relationship with the mtn bikers

RD: plsd with motion and how reached; Ms A and Mr B attended some of the RCrk WG mtgs and the mtn bikers have been conscientious.

mention Streamkeepers active with Rodgers Crk, wrt streams and mtn bikes

Mayor: I want to thank Corinne Ambor; many have thanked you for being involved

6.         Cancellation of April 16 Special Council Mtg and Scheduling of May 1, 2008 Special Council Mtg  -- Sp Mtg scheduled for Thurs, May 1 at 10am

JC: expenditures, salaries, funds to suppliers

great anxiety on part of some to see these

Sop: based on prov instructions, Police remuneration indefinitely suspended?

RL: not under the regulations, not to be published

Sop: new?

RL: think this is the third year, at least two years

RB: wrt exempt staff separate from this; exempt is followed by policy and reported out on an annual basis

RB: at time salaries are considered

Sop: great grand look at budget, this is not pertinent? we have to wait once a year to hear this?

when passed, we'll bring that back before for 2008

right for 2006, one is retroactive, 2005, found behind the market, adjustments not made until 2006, a number of positions got a marked increase

specifics for the directors were provided in camera given personal

thought we had provided what you were looking for

SN: given personal, yes, in camera

exempt follow the inside/outside lift and market review ev three years; next fall of 2008

review in Coq and we've fallen behind again,  and behind the two other NSh Ms

attraction and retention concern for us; we are paying 60% percentile, basically the average, is 1 to 2% above the average

City of Vancouver and City of Richmond and others are starting to move towards 75% percentile b/c difficulty attracting mgmt staff

to say that's privy to in camera, I don't-- when you/we have negotiations, Ms Ney, we know what they are; to the mtgs and spelled out there's percentage to 2011

SN: and those were in camera

JF: in camera

Mayor: you are beginning to talk about things that are in camera

in all of our collective experience, benefits to be linked to biz/corp plan

SN: every time, external review

if Ccl resolution holds steady a market review; no implementation or changes until 2009

process to date with full support of Ccl; moving forward with other things you might need.

George Pajari: tyvm, Your Worship, Mbrs of Ccl

at a past mtg to discuss the budget there was a backgrounder circulated that our staffing levels are 16% higher on a per capita basis than our nbring Ms and it was explained, Your Worship [YW], some of the reasons for that, but I was wondering, if YW cd explain given that we have 16% more staff, why our HR Dept is 70% larger on a per capita basis than our nbring Ms.

SN: our dept only one that also includes payroll and only one on NSh to have six collective agreements responsible for: we have Transit, we have Rec Services wch the other two don't, and our own Police Services.

surprised to hear you say that we're larger; if you take payroll out, cuz we did do a review when we were encouraging [?] we cd hire an HR assistant and in that review found we were quite low and actually when we looked right across Metro Vancouver, we're probably a third the size of other HR teams, and many don't do payroll as well, so wd be interested where you got your info from

GP: understand significant FTEs assigned to payroll; other Ms outsourced and show up in other depts?

SN: not my understanding; we've certainly got timekeepers;

{we in gallery listening didn't quite understand payroll --> timekeepers}

peppered throughout the organization; our payroll team is two fulltime and one casual employee, handling 650 FTEs and probably another 400 casuals and temps

GP: other Ms wd have payroll teams, are you saying--

Mayor: I think we've provided a v good answer--

GP: you have--

Mayor: the danger in making comparisons without understanding what makes up those different categories

GP: I understand--

SN: those payroll depts are typically covered under Finance, so wd show up under Finance FTEs.  My apologies, I shd hv answered through the Chair.

GP: thank you, YW, and through you to the Dir/Finance, has the M received a GFOA award for the budget booklet as opposed to the annual report?

Mayor: no, you know that it's for the annual report and Cclr Ferguson made that error and she meant to say, the annual report in the debate last week.

JF: no, I didn't.  I just simply made an error, wch I discovered later.

Mayor: thank you

Mayor: I did make that correction, and I also referred to the budget wch we wd like to be award-winning for in the future, and I think I mentioned we'd won the award two years in a row for the annual report

GP: so when Cclr F stated that--

Mayor: excuse me, is this to do with our Five-Yr Financial Plan, your next question?

GP: yes, my next question is to the Five-Yr Fin Plan process, maybe not this year b/c it's too late, but the statement was made last week that one of the cclrs cdn't imagine any way it cd be improved, and I assume since we now know that the budget booklet has not won any awards, that maybe there are some ways the budget process cd be improved, and that cclr is now aware of these ways.

Mayor: mbrs of Ccl are entitled to making their own statements, making their own mistakes, wch they usually admit, and I wd say that we are always trying to improve our process

GP: so may we expect that next year's budget booklet might try to achieve the minimum recommendations of the GFOA

Mayor: well, you heard us say last week that we're keen to get going on that.  I don't know what the minimum recommendations of the GFOA are. Mr Laing?

RL: that's typically a multi-year process in terms of the resources that are required to get that in place.  We are, we actually did get a start in some respects for 2008 but in terms of, ah, I guess having a budget doc that we felt was in any kind of shape to send off to GFOA for judging, we're definitely not there yet.  Our annual report took three years of work each year improving and adding to it, and it did qualify.  Am expecting similarly, the budget doc will take the same.  It requires significant staff resources to put those [kinds] of docs together, v significant--

GP: thank you

Carolanne Reynolds: tyvm.  Well, if we had/find the binder, we cd have some idea, more [info/details] of course.

Secondly, want to thank Mr Laing for having provided me with an answer to a question I'd asked before, the CB amt from Millennium [$2.5M from Ev Dr Devt].

The second question I had was that, that was answered, that I didn't even know what had been the question, was that $800K of the Millennium CB apparently has been given to the Youth Band portion of the Cmnty Ctr.  So it's gone to fund -- the Youth Band's great -- but it's gone to fund part of the Cmnty Ctr, and are they going to pay that back b/c they were supposed to raise the funds? but more importantly, when the CBs for Ev Dr came up, the understanding, it was implicit, there'd be cmnty input, at least you wd hear opinions from the public as to what to put [use] that money for.  And I asked some ppl and nobody said they had recommended it go to the MDr Gateway or to the Cmnty Ctr, so I wonder about the process, not just about what has happened, but what about the rest of the money?  will the public have some say how the CB money is spent?

Mayor: first of all ask Mr Barth about the MDr Gateway

EB: budget for that project, appeared in the capital plan info that was circulated to Mayor&Ccl and the public, is $1.3M and maybe some change,

and the difference between what we're getting from the amenity contribution is being made up from other contributions such as TransLink and some of the work on the storm sewer is being funded through the utility.

Mayor: wrt our budget, globally, revenue that comes in and then how it is prioritized, Mr Laing?

RL: wrt amenity contributions?  Arose in the difficulty exercise in balancing the Five-Yr Capital Plan and that Plan, as Ccl will remember, was initially circulated on Feb 4th, presented in Chambers, and was circulated to the public for their info.  That plan did not balance notwithstanding that a $1M of the Millennium contribution was proposed to be offset against the Amb Gateway project.  We did further work on that plan, received comments from the public essentially around the golf facilities.  Staff continued to work on the plan, came up with a set of principles by wch we balanced it, we talked about deferring signif projects forward to a five-yr exercise later on this year, and one of the aspects that did get finalized in the interim was the funding around the Youth Band space in the Cmnty Ctr, and when we came back to Ccl with Version 2 of the capital plan, proposing how it might be balanced at that time -- that was Mar 3rd -- then again in Ccl we did provide V2 of the capital plan.  We talked in detail about all of the revisions that had been made to the previous plan, and one of those revisions was the details of the Youth Band space and that $800K of that funding was now coming from the amenity contributions.  That was all fairly clear in all of our dealings in the final--

Mayor: if you--

CR: tyvm to Mr Laing b/c I did receive that information this afternoon--

Mayor: --then you knew that answer

CR: No, no, not ALL of that, and I meant the $800K was to the Cmnty Ctr,

but that's not my question.

My question is, for Cmnty Benefits (CBs), isn't there supposed to be some sort of public involvement wrt what the CB is spent for/on, and that's why we wanted to know how much was Millennium's [CB], how much has been used, how much is left, and will there be an opportunity for the public to make suggestions or give you input as to what you decide.

RL: these are the only two allocations of CB money so far

CR: and that's why concerned.  Do you think the rest will be discussed in public?

so I don't foresee as we move into an era of enhanced CBs and enhanced cmnty amenities, going through a process other than the very public budget process for allocating money.  That's not to say that suggestions might not arise in Ccl's debate as we saw tonight with Rodgers Crk, but I think it wd be perhaps unwise to attach commitments right off the bat and not view CBs as broad and as intended to benefit the general cmnty; but right now I'm going to return to our motion--

CR: I agree that--

Mayor: --have this discussion again another time--

CR: I agree it's broad, I just wanted to maintain [ascertain] that when you are considering Community Benefits, that the public [cmnty] is involved

The other questions I have, I'll wait till PQP.

Mayor: all right; moving then to item No 8

VV: I'd prefer to move an amendment that we rescind third reading so we can discuss it

Mayor: is there a seconder for rescinding the budget bylaw?

Sop: second

VV: haven't allowed sufficient opp to discuss this, not normal to do second and third reading on the same occasion and I think it's been done in advance of releasing this financial information just released this to public this evening under the previous item 7 and there shd be at least week before going to third reading; haven't got process in logical order, need to allow at least a week to adopting this bylaw

MS: I cannot see any possible reason why the info as to what a fourth year firefighter got paid last year, benefits and holiday pay, is going to open up the light to economic salvation

one of the reasons I think this budget has to be passed.  Last year, like a bolt form the blue cut half a per cent, 2.95 to 2.45 but made no change in the way the District operated.  Didn't direct staff to cut anything; continued to roll along, stumble along really so the inevitable happened.  In Nov, had to pass a bylaw for three times as much as the tax cut and it had to come out of reserves

that is not a budget process.  I'll be damned, I'll take that back, I'll be darned if I'm going to sit and acquiesce while the same thing happens again

so let's go over process we've been on

first of all Fiscal Task Force recommended 3% increase based on CPI

a long time ago; Ccl agreed, staff brought in a budget of 3%; three areas not covered -- add'l resources for police, fire, and for parks and rec to fund new cmnty ctr

staff correctly said we need direction as to how you want to handle that

Ccl properly went out said if you have some idea we'd like to hear them

had public mtgs, met with staff, delivered msg if we funded those services, wd be 5.1%; wasn't going to fly

so staff found 80% of the savings; not fat, legitimately need to be funded

now to a budget that allows for a tax increase of 3.5% or $8 a month for the av home

question is not the $8 month, it's where do we go from here

reality is clear; prev Ccl, elected to have their own police dept -- higher staffing than nbring districts; we've gone from a volunteer Fire Dept to one with 107 employees, own bus system, a parks and rec dept, built state of the art facility in Gleneagles, building one in new cmnty ctr, wonderfully used srs' ctr and library; music and arts festivals and I'm not speaking against any of these; somebody's got to pay for them

incumbent on those who don't want to vote for this budget, put hand up and here's what we want to cut; that's why I get exercised b/c I don't think anyone can rationally argue the budget process has not been long, laborious, open, and eminently fair

I come back to if you want to make change, no doubt there are inefficiencies, it's well over a $100M org and there's no org in the world one-tenth of the size that doesn't have inefficiencies, that goes with the territory

We have a new CAO who was Secy Treas in a large Sch District, and if Ccl feels there are inefficiencies, then we can ask the new CAO to look into it, deliver a report, and have a debate, but to just fly from the hip, not pass this bylaw without making any alternatives, doesn't fly, makes no sense

JF: in opposition to rescinding; ask if normal pass second and third reading at same mtg, it's common in my experience

I agree with everything Cclr Smith has said

Sop: surprisingly enough this is the year, it's enlightenment for me; shd be for everybody on the basis of generous application of thought to the budget process, and it has been

great smarts in this cmnty and staff to present us with a budgeting process; saw concern higher percentage and staff came back finding areas where they cd meet demand

one in infrastructure, from $7.5M down to $7M off infrastructure budget

2009, that will be $7.8M and so back and so budget will go on

Mr Laing is aware of the regulations coming up; have to adopt new principles; am sure you're going to do that

when Cclr Smith says stand up and find spots, v difficult to find consideration for me when we don't have the material and the breakdown based on a system for the infrastructure

all changes but can't accept how done process up to now; hasn't give us complete picture; we have not had the tools to go ahead and make those sound decisions that we need to do for now and the future, b/c we are facing each year, a significant increase and over inflation

to sustain it, how? process has to change; to say this is the only process, it is not

in my books, staff in all due diligence shd go back to the drawing board and you shd look at 3.5 and if we put a hammer down here and look at a new method, we can surprise not only this Ccl, this taxpayer, throughout BC and they'll start looking at the new process, the way they in fact budget

always this is the wrong thing to do; I think differently and I'm not going to support

VV: this was connected with a motion to rescind third reading so it wd be possible to discuss the budget back at second reading but ev discussing it anyway, make my remarks here or do I leave it?

Mayor: wd hv to be pretty compelling reason so that's why discussion

VV: that's the point, rescind so we can recommend

don't think we have a mandate for this tax increase; 30% say can't afford any prop tax increase, reluctantly service cuts, that's 5000 households

next 60% said will not pay more for enhanced services but some increase only if nec maintain services they have.

That doesn't sound like a popn ready to put out more than a cost of living increase and I don't see as their trustees that we have the right to do it, so that's from the point of view of representing the public

so what to be cut out?  this comes up ev time; also been suggested we don't have any ideas

looked at Fiscal Sust Task Force a year ago and they listed 40 things we shd do, and we've done about half of them underway

we can't make good mgmt decisions b/c we don't measure properly; mgmt staff don't do timesheets -- we don't know what we're buying for this amt of money and salaries and benefits are 80%.  Can't solve this if we don't know what they're doing; what activities doing, what cost

what does it cost to maintain Whytecliff Park? well, we don't do the acctg like that

staff time on issue such as Hugo Ray Park? we don't know

can't make good mgmt decisions if we don't have the info; we don't know what to cut out if we don't know what things cost

my reason for not supporting the budget or any budget that doesn't have as the underlying basis, adequate information, particularly the timesheet issue.  I was in govt 30 years ago when it was new to introduce timesheets.  This is tired, old, routine that ev in biz, govt, or otherwise does, but for some reason we haven't got there yet.

want to say to public I just don't think we've justified the taxes we collect as they are now, when we can't look at what spent on

Mayor: it's disappointing to me we wd expect so much staff time, so many public opps, and following up on a survey, and then act this evening as if we don't have any info

I've been diligent in following up with liaisons WGs, those WG have mobilized, dollars returned to us

when I ask staff leaders giving up evenings, they say they cannot do it without the cmnty

signif improvement; stretching the taxpayers' investment

Mr Barth leaves this mtg and prepares his own reports

you have to say wch roads you don't want maintained, wch swimming lessons cancelled

if you want to put WV on the map, work with new TransLink Bd

we're the canary, b/c tax on prop; if do right thing, five year plan to get us out of prop tax

pressure from regional govts

if anything we shd be fiercely clinging to the level of service to the cmnty

more powerful groups that will be taking more...

no question we have a hardworking staff, need to know they are valued, and what I hear from the public, they are

JF: can't help asking question

timesheets 30 years ago, reason govt so efficient with its money?

don't see similar effect on M govt, I'd say, heaven help us

Sop: find it rather difficult, b/c one looks at a budget and wants to do best to reduce for the public that that in some way interprets that we do not have a v qualified staff.  I fail to find that connection.

I know and have experience over my 12 years; utmost great pleasure working with great staff not the issue

do we have the ability to look at a new way of financing or continually 3% forever more?

not going to stay at 3%

is this the right method? I think we can do better

next year going in a new direction...

here's a new direction folks, not about their ability

Mayor: need concrete; you and I know how willing staff are to understand where staff are coming from.

RD: talked about his last week and again tonight

get the impression, small well-financed v vocal groups who seem to have privileged access to the press bashing away at staff and Ccl and this and that; somehow Ccl's helpless; find it all absurd

If we introduce timesheets, half our staff wd leave, given labour market right now, hard to get/hire any back in

we have lowest tax increase in the Lower Mainland; Vancouver a little lower b/c strike so saved money, and Langley lower b/c casino; NV had 4.5% a full percentage higher than we did

getting good value; see it all the time, dedicated, good hard-working staff, nothing's perfect never total efficiency; you can't quantify and stand over ppl and measure everything they do; ppl won't work that way, you have to trust them to work hard, sure you do measure to some extent, and you do have performance evaluations but you have to have situation make decisions, ppl can follow their own judgement; not constantly supervised

WGs are the biggest bargains in the history of WV

WGs able ppl, Rodgers Crk sitting with ppl normally paid tons of money, and they're working for free

RCrk, Amb, Fire WGs, Childcare, they're going to change face of WV

helping us to plan WV and work for future, make it more outstanding

most realize we have good staff, conscientious Ccl, facilities envy of the world; they're well maintained and well supervised

Cclr Smith was quoted in NSNews -- and speaking of the NSNews, my last name's Clark, no E {some laughter}, first name John -- the qtn in the paper was from Cclr Smith that Cclr Sop and I who voted in favour of that motion, we were accused of political posturing.  Frankly, I take great exception to that, I feel what we were trying to do last week and what I expect we're trying to do again this week is exactly what we were put here for in the first place, to look after public funds, to be the watchdog,

if they can't find any answers, we can still go back to 3.5!  in a heartbeat.  Thank you.

VV: not sure if I was asked a question through you by Cclr F or not; but having heard Cclr Day's remarks on the matter of timesheets that if we asked our staff to tell us how long a particular task takes, we shd presume they will simply leave, I find that extraordinary, b/c the ordinary biz professional in the commercial world always rates, hourly rates.  Anyone wanting to hire a plumber or lawyer, you certainly learn what an hourly rate is all about.  I just find it extraordinary that we shd insist on remaining in some kind of isolated bubble, away from the financial reality of the ordinary work-a-day world.  I'm a little bit baffled we shd insist on this isolation from financial reality in terms of the time value of money,

MS: don't want to get into a debate with Cclr Clark; genuinely sorry he took issue with my remarks, but, frankly I stand by them.  To suggest that two mbrs of the public -- I frankly find it insulting, you know I spent eight years on Sch Bd, 40 in biz, all of them in finance, budgeting, and management, and I successfully run my own businesses and I'm happy to rate my track record of success in biz with anybody on the fiscal interested taxpayers' cmte -- to suggest that two mbrs of the public can come up in three weeks, knowing absolutely nothing about this M's finances and find millions of dollars in savings--  Cclr Clark's been on this Ccl for, this is his ninth year, if that simple why hasn't he done it before now?  It's frankly insulting.  I've worked damn hard here for the past two and a half years, and I'm not going to sit idly by while someone suggests that somebody who hasn't got a clue what he's talking about, come up and in three weeks refloat the Titanic.

That's just not on.  I'm sorry you take offence to my remarks; I frankly take offence to the suggestion that somebody who doesn't have a clue about the finances of this M can find millions of dollars in savings from a standing start in three weeks

RD: suggestion was we bring in a couple of bankers, volunteering to put things right; I'm sure they're v competent.  I cdn't help thinking that the economy of the world right now is reeling, and moving into a depression b/c of the follies of bankers and financial experts, and if that's the case, how are they going to save WV?

Mayor: important to recognize we have a process for appointing mbrs to a cmte, all mbrs of Ccl look at those

we have six fine mbrs of the cmnty on the Finance Cmte

we have to honour the process and who is serving in that capacity

if there's been one thing that has consumed staff time, it has been this budget

we are criticizing staff if we say at this point, the effort wasn't good enough, b/c it was excruciating, and it goes from the Director right down

all of their suggestions came forward this year; we are trying quite a few new things, and we have stopped doing some things; we have rolled four positions into two

we've cut at least a million dollars from this year's budget and cut $1M last year

v challenging; we're trying to diversify, precisely by appointing a non-profit society to run the Cmnty Ctr so we'll see quite a different financial picture, I hope, for Parks and Cmnty Services within a few years

similarly in the Police Dept; they know a Police Fdn will make a big difference

similarly Fire Services WG, we're trying to take the long view of the costs coming to us in Fire

I think predictable and open manner and in concert with the cmnty

wd like to thank staff for time they've put in, they've tried their best to respond

to get msgs from Ccl at this stage in the game that that wasn't good enough, is soul-destroying

and so if there are clear things any mbr of Ccl wd like staff to explore, they will, so we're looking for that at this point.

Otherwise that's why we're looking at adoption on the agenda.

I'll call the question

RD: on rescinding

Mayor: sorry, thank you, on rescinding

FAILS

Call on adoption

Sop: polled vote

9.         Correspondence List for Consent Agenda [full list in previous WVM]

Answers/comments -- wrt Amb

JC: Esso site; linked to; wasting time; when well aware just as big and chomping at the bit

Mayor: numerous owners; coming forward in April; type of devt prepared

Mayor: compliment KMC, successful fundraiser, Jann Arden and Vicky Gabereau

met re TransLink with Dale Parker; really positioned ourselves as a subregion, improved bus service

Sop: when board appointed not elected, when TransLink first started

Mayor: need $18M; were going to prop and biz, and backed off; we made point illegitimate

a third relies on prop taxes, increases significantly over next ten years, cannot stand that

they've chosen to listen; constant pressure, ev mayor never going to let that go, we had no choice

Mayor: no, we have a few mbrs of the public wishing to comment

to close of biz

CARRIES

she was hoping an opp to meet with Mr Pike; looking to find a spot to meet

Mayor: next steps; continuing to work on this and with the Society

now that MRIF confirmed as cancelled; what is Ccl's position then re motion of Ccl Feb 2007 wch was passed given a large number of qualifications pertinent to fundraising

Mayor: that's why report back; they've raised $2M; all will be in a public report

RBarr: what position wrt $1M re traffic and improvement; undefined costs

KP: re funding, the five-yr capital does not have funding in there; Ccl may choose to come back

Mayor: Ccl wishes to take where we left off; residents; Cricket; where funding pledges are; bring closure to this issue

my question is about the $800K of the Ev Dr Amenity Fund going to the new Cmnty Ctr.  This is supposed to be for the Youth Band facility.  My understanding was $1M was promised by the WV Band for costs for their new facility at the new rec ctr

we went back into negotiations and now a rental arrangement, not a capital contribution, $30K a year, based on use on certain number of hours

Mayor: many more tenants now, broader not proprietary to YB, and our mgr of partnerships is working on other corporate partnerships there b/c we have to drive revenue out of that space, so quite a diff use

Ccl ev step of the way; wish to continue seeing that music hall in that facility; rental piece significant; part of making capital cost work, but it is a change in direction

EF: my understanding at the time was that it was not going to be the YB to come up with the $1M it was supposed to be the WV Band, wch is an adult group organization, wasn't aware it was the YB that was coming up with $1M; at the mtgs we went to it was adult groups that came forward and said they'd be contributing this money

KP: note the other users are some of the adult bands and orchestras that do work in this cmnty, and they will be using this area on a rental basis as well

Mayor: and last to Carolanne Reynolds

CR:  sorry, I thought I saw some other names there

first of all, I wd like to echo your thanks, Mayor G-J, I've also found that Corinne Ambor was an absolute delight to work with, and I've said thanks and complimented other staff in the past, so I certainly do not want to be in any way thought to be in the category of bashing staff, but when I think about that, nobody shd be the category of bashing the public, and nobody shd be in the category of bashing other cclrs, either, b/c we're all in this together and I think it shd be understood that we might have differences of opinion but I think we are all trying hard to cope with the situation the M is in, and the continuing, growing, number of ppl -- as the Mayor pointed out, there are 1400 ppl on fixed incomes and can't afford this, and I think this is what some of us are trying to answer to.

I also just don't understand -- I think Cclr Clark was right in saying give the RCrk info to the Housing WG.  They might not look at it all, but why keep information away from ppl?  That's what I just don't understand.  Give it to them.  If they only want to look at one part, that's fine.  If they don't have time, that's fine, but you've given them the opportunity.

And that was the same attitude when I said, give the Finance Cmte whatever they want, or try to come up with something.  They cd prove Cclr Smith right that they can't do anything, and he'll be really happy, but if they come up with something, he shd be happy too.  So it shd be a win-win.

Now, the other thing I wanted to ask about is I had asked if there was a limit on the amount when there's a project that it goes out to tender, and I still have not got that answer.

CR: and what sort of things wd be an exception, Mayor, b/c I was wondering if any exceptions -- what exceptions wd we go to tender with over $50K, and does it mean that anything over $50K, wch is quite low, wd have to come to Ccl, or is it just tender and staff only?  when does it come to Ccl?

RL: YW, our practice has been, our policy is, only v large contract awards come to Ccl.  In terms of exceptions to tendering on those over $50K, there are many circumstances, for example, where we might do a select tender, we might negotiate directly with ppl we know are qualified to do the work,

CR: do you ever get to see the tenders or just get to see the final decision?

Mayor: we get an awful lot for information; Ccl and staff, actually we can ask for any information we like and staff are always v forthcoming.  We also have a professional staff, and so we don't get into details every week

CR: no, but you wd not--

The other thing that some ppl were saying that it was unfortunate that the FinCmte cd not look at 2008, and that it was assumed that the ppl who were picked wd able to, but maybe the break in the link of the chain was that they were not aware that they were going to be doing it, so we just have a little break, so we all have to concentrate on 2009 for that little miscommunication.  Thank you.

Mayor: the budget is definitely partly a product of the work of the FinCmte in 2007.  I also think it's important to note that the recommendations of the Fiscal Sust Task Force are really suggestions.

Mayor:  Ccl never adopted anything; they were wide-ranging and so to refer to the FSTF as though it is a set of recommendations Ccl has adopted, is not quite right.  It is, things we shd be looking at if we care to; we'll always be referring to that

CR: and that's why the FinCmte's also recommendations to Ccl, as Cclr Clark pointed out. Thank you.

4.         PUBLIC HEARING/PUBLIC MEETING PROCEDURE...  {THEN PUBLIC INPUT}  etc

===   CORRESPONDENTS' CORNER   === [two submissions[

1

2

GLOBAL WARMING - Lighthouse Park Preservation Society, Sat Apr 5 at the Library

===   HERITAGEWATCH   ===  BBC on Sidmouth and Canadian benefactor

> Resort given =A31.5m in man's will  --  Sidmouth's main street has kept its independent shops

+ The above report is from the website below and it has a photo of the main street of you're interesting in seeing it.  http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/devon/7338799.stm

+ There's a picture of the beach on this website:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/portal/main.jhtml?xml=/portal/2008/04/10/ftsidmouth110.xml

There is more of a description and more of the history in this article.  Amazing it's so much warmer than London and has less rainfall than the other south-coast resorts.  Its setting played a role in preventing sprawl.

> Sidmouth is so worth saving  --  Last Updated: 12:01am BST 10/04/2008

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/15/books/15ehrlich.html?_r=1&ex=1365912000&en=16109e4a8ad80703&oref=slogin for the rest

        * Jon Henley  *  The Guardian, Friday April 4 2008   * Article history

===  HAIKU  === 2008 Apr 19 along Upper Levels

A Reader sent this (attribution given as Anon) as reflections on John Les (ICBC, Mulroney, Conrad, etc.)

There are only two ways of telling the complete truth: anonymously and posthumously.

                        -- Thomas Sowell, American economist, political writer (b 1930)

Whenever anyone has offended me, I try to raise my soul so high that the offence cannot reach it.

               -- Rene Descartes, French philosopher, mathematician, scientist, writer (1596 - 1650)