Ccl NOTES Oct 20
Calendar to Nov 13+

by Carolanne Reynolds, Editor

REMEMBRANCE DAY Tuesday November 11  *  Lest Ye Forget
IN THIS ISSUE:                            
MAIN ITEMS at Ccl Oct 27:  Veterans' Week; Cmnty Heritage Register; Eagle Island Docks ($500K); SPCA Licence (withdrawn last week); DPAs for Rodgers Crk and for 1434 Marine Drive; CEC Status Update; Zoning Amendment Bylaw (Floor Area Ratio) - Building Permit Application for 856 Anderson Crescent and 2313 Nelson Ave -- to be provided on Table;  Zoning Bylaw Rewrite to Interim Devt amendments to Zoning Bylaw and to Soil Removal and Deposit Regulation Amendment Bylaw; Three Readings for OCP Amendment Bylaw, Zoning Amendment Bylaw, and Devt Permit, then for Waterworks Regulation Amendment Bylaw as well as the Sewer and Drainage Utility Fee Bylaw (underbilling correction); Correspondence on Traffic Circle Skilift and Chairlift, etc
=  Vive le Canada; from the EDITOR'S DESK; UPDATES (JP Fell Pipe Band; MLA Sultan; Hugo Ray Park)
=  CALENDAR to Nov 13th + (well, as much as known at the moment!)
=  Ccl Mtg NOTES Oct 20th: PH on revised grade and FAR calculations (decks); Spirit Trail; Update
=  Ccl Mtg Oct 27th AGENDA (last scheduled ccl mtg until Nov 17, after M election)
=  THEATREWATCH; ANIMALWATCH (fawn; snake massage); WEBWATCH (Waterfalls); NEWSWATCH (inflation 231M%); POLICEWATCH (identify man); ECONOMY/BANKWATCH (amusing explanation); LANGUAGEWATCH (Reading Dictionaries; PALINdrome); Haiku; Quotations

You can vote at the advance polls: Nov 4th, 5th, and 10th at M Hall; FOR FURTHER INFO:
604 842 1547, 925 7045; election@westvancouver.ca & www.westvancouver.ca/election.aspx
Also:  http://www.westvancouver.ca/Government/Level3.aspx?id=130
+  7pm Tues Oct 28: Legacy North Shore Society's ACM mtg at Hollyburn Elementary School
+  7pm, Wed Nov 5: BPAHA ACM mtg at WV United, 2062 Esquimalt
+  7pm, Mon Nov 10: Park Royal South: WV Memorial Library ACM mtg (for mayor and ccl)
        For Mayor: John Clark, Max Clough, Pamela Goldsmith-Jones, Vivian Vaughan
For Council (six): Lynne Block, Danielle Charlton, Michael Evison, Nora Gambioli, Gregg Henderson, Alex Horsburgh, Michael Lewis, Max Nikpay, Trish Panz,  Med Rahbar (withdrawn), Carolanne Reynolds, Michael Smith, Bill Soprovich, Shannon Walker
{NOTE: Max Clough and Alex Horsburgh did not appear at the Oct 15 ACM nor at the ACMs Oct 21 (WRA) and Oct 23 (WVCGG); Michael Lewis stated he wd not want to participate in the WVCGG process but did speak at WRA ACM.}
For School Trustee (five): Tanya Audain, Mary-Ann Booth, Sam Cole, Cindy Dekker, Jane Kellett, Tamara Leger, Barry Lindahl, Dave Stevenson, Coral Winfield
+  WVCGG Endorsement Mtg:
It was a long wait for the results.  There was a tie in the voting for School Trustees.  The voting gave the same (rare) result as the directors' recommendations: Pam Goldsmith-Jones for Mayor; for Cclrs: Michael Evison, Nora Gambioli, Trish Panz, Michael Smith, Bill Soprovich, and Shannon Walker.  Double slate?
Here's a list of the WVCGG directors (but with not all affiliations listed) Chuck Walker resigned b/c his daughter is a candidate): http://www.wvcgg.ca/reports/WVCGG%20Director%20Bios.pdf
The bombshell Thursday night at the WVCGG Endorsement when the mayoralty candidates spoke was John Clark's announcement that in view of their system he was not seeking their endorsement, wd not accept it if he got it, and he was walking over to Carmelo's for dinner.  He shook the MC's hand and walked out (with some following).
+ The Outlook had a report -- and it's a good one, including a video of John Clark's remarks:
+ Friday's NSNews had an article quoting Michael Lewis, and Sunday's Oct 26 had John Clark on the front page with an editorial disapproving of WVCGG.
+ I've been told we'll be hearing of at least one, perhaps two or three more slates.  Will keep you posted.  Preserve West Van may have one soon; rumours of one from SHA and another whose name is not yet confirmed.  This is shaping up to be rather convoluted.  Will test how informed ppl are so they can actually sort them out to make an informed decision about the views and ability of the candidates, whether on or off a slate.
A call to a return to independence?
From my point of view, all who offer their services are to be respected and considered; mix and match and put together your own slate, same or different from any slate/group!

=== Vive le Canada ===
Well, you've all read that the federal election Oct 14 had the lowest voter turnout in Canadian history, under 60%.  Pls read about all the candidates for DWV Ccl, hear them speak, call them, and VOTE.  PLEASE. The last M election had a turnout of under 40%.

..... from the EDITOR'S DESK
READ: West Van Matters has what was said at mtgs for the last few years, see www.westvan.org
Send email to subscribeWVM@westvan.org to get the news right away by email -- before it goes on the website and some news that doesn't make it to the website.
WRITE: Send information and updates to submitWVM@westvan.org if you have something of interest to the cmnty.
RESEARCH:  If you want to find out about a DWV topic, all you have to do is go to www.westvan.org, scroll to the bottom of the home page, and type in the topic in the Google site search field wch then brings up references, speeches, said during a WV ccl mtg in the past years
NOTE: Rather busy so doing my best with the hectic schedule.  This issue was to have contact info for all candidates but since info for only one mayoralty candidate, will put in next one when hope to have all four (well, at least three); not all for Ccl either so decided to put the info in the next issue.

===   UPDATES   ===
+  JP Fell Pipe Band (WV's official pipe band) need drummers of any age and level of experience to participate in cmnty-based street parades and concerts.  Drums, uniforms, and instruction supplied.  Info: Pipe Sgt. Milton Cameron at 921 6522
+ MLA Ralph Sultan's fall newsletter is now out: http://www.ralphsultan.com/ and among other bits of news, Harvard in BC is interesting: http://www.ralphsultan.com/Newsltr-2008/newsltr-0801/02-HarvardinBC.html
+  Hugo Ray Park Devts: Artificial Turf Field? Costs? Leaching?
Hugo Ray Park - Update on Proposed Playing Field Upgrade
Wednesday, October 22 -- Council will not be making a decision about the proposed artificial turf field project at Hugo Ray Park on October 27, 2008.  It had previously been communicated that recommendations for action would be before Council on this date, but we can confirm that no report on Hugo Ray Park will be before Council on October 27, 2008. For more information, please see the attached Letter to Residents (PDF, 4 KB).
The lawyer for the Hugo Ray Park residents has sent a letter dated Oct 23.  (Think the Hugo Ray Park Residents' Group has a website.)
+ Deputy CAO (from press release):
Brent Leigh will be responsible for the Office of Cultural Affairs and Corporate Partnerships managed by Cathy Matheson; the Office of Sustainability, Environment and Healthy Communities managed by Stephen Jenkins; and Emergency Planning.  Leigh will also lead the organization through the development of a long-term Corporate Strategy.
Within the Office of the CAO, Josie Chuback will lead the District's involvement in the 2010 Winter Games as the Director of Olympic Services and Projects, and she will continue to be responsible for the completion of the new Community Centre.  Within the Parks and Community Services Division, Anne Mooi as been appointed as Deputy Director of Parks and Community Services.

 ===  CALENDAR to Nov 13th  === 
[at Hall unless otherwise noted; since this is early pls see DWV Calendar for changes/additions]
==  Thursday Oct 30
        ~ 4:45 ~ Finance Cmte
        ~ 5pm ~ NSACDI at DNV M Hall
= Wed Nov 5 ~ 6:30pm ~ Child Care WG at 1538 Fulton
= Wed Nov 12 ~ 9am ~ CEC (postponed to Nov 26)
= Thurs Nov 13
        ~ 5:30pm ~ Measuring Up WG
        ~ 6pm ~ NSACDI at DNV M Hall

   In the Gallery to Oct 31: Recent works by Parvis Djamtorki, Tannis Turner, and Sa Boothroyd.
7pm Tues Oct 21
Please join the West Vancouver Memorial Library Foundation for a presentation dedicated to libraries and literacy by Kathy Knowles, Founder and Director of the Osu Children's Library Fund.  This Canada-based organization has created six large community libraries in Accra, Ghana, and more than 170 smaller children's libraries in Africa.
Copies of the newest children's books published by the OCLF will be available for sale.  Refreshments will be served by the Friends of the Library.
Thurs Oct 23 -- Lynne Cox: Open Water Swimmer
4 - 5pm. An after school talk for swimmers of all ages.
7:30 - 9pm. Lynne will speak about her career, her swimming, and her writing. Peter J. Peters Room.
Fri Oct 24 -- Friday Night Concert Series Presents: Rebecca Jenkins
Concert starts at 7:30pm, doors open at 7 pm. Seating is limited so come early and enjoy refreshments by the Friends of the Library. Find out more...
= Wed Oct 29  --  Author Visit - Bernice Lever
7pm: Prize-winning poet, Bernice Lever, will read her poems and tell you how to get your poetry published.
= 7 - 9pm Wed Nov 5th -- Book Launch: Hollyburn by Francis Mansbridge
Logging, skiing, environmental battles: this book chronicles the dynamic history of the Hollyburn/Cypress area from the early years to the upcoming Olympics.

*** REMEMBRANCE DAY Tues Nov 11 Legion at Cenotaph then Library ***

+  Let's Speak English!  Join the group, make new friends and practise your English conversation skills at the Library every Friday in October from 10:30am -12noon.  No registration required.  For info 925 7402.
Join Joe Ronsley for readings and discussion of the works of one of the best poets of the 20th century.  Tues mornings: Nov 4, 18, 25, and Dec 2. 10:30 - 12:30pm.  No registration required, drop-ins welcome.
Join us for vibrant discussions on burning issues of the day.  We meet from 10:30am - 12:30pm one Friday each month (usually the fourth Friday).  Enjoy the snacks and coffee hospitably provided. Everyone welcome. Registration not required. Admission $5. Co-sponsored by S.F.U. 
Moderator: Randall MacKinnon has a Master's in Social Policy and Planning. He is an IDEASage with MackINNOVATION, a service consultancy.
Fri Oct 24: 101 things Canadians should know about Canada
The Dominion Institute conducted a survey of Canadians to determine what they saw as national symbols or icons. In between the maple leaf at number 1 and Canadian elections which came 101st, there were many exciting, questionable, supportable, and debatable suggestions. Come discuss and join the debate! All of the icons will be there for you to pronounce on. We may even select our own top ten icons that we believe help to weave us together as a nation.

>   ROCK  PAPER   SCISSORS  -- October 21 - November 2
Mixed Media Exhibition featuring: Hal Barber, Elizabeth de Beer, Heather Fisher, Terry George, Alan Maples, Nancy Ricker, Janis Wasend, Joanne Waters
Opening Reception: Tues, Oct 21, 6-8pm; Artists in Attendance:  Sat, Oct 25, 2-3pm
See: http://ferrybuildinggallery.com/exhibitions/upcoming_exhibition
>  News for Artists -- Arts Connection - a dynamic networking group for artists
Would you like to be a member?  Join us at the next meeting October 29, 10am - 12 noon.  For more info, see http://ferrybuildinggallery.com/news_for_artists

+++ SILK PURSE +++  (1570 Argyle) www.silkpurse.ca
+  Wed Oct 15 ~ Caroun Photo Club (CPC), www.CarounPhotoClub.com
        CPC monthly meetings are held on the third Wednesday, 7 - 9 pm of each month.
        ALSO: Photography Tours: Reifel Sanctuary Oct 26; Queen Elizabeth Park Nov 2
        info: www.CarounPhotoClub.com
+ October 21 - November 2 -- "Blanket Statement"
Aboriginal tapestries, drums, blankets, and cravings can be unique in their complexity/intricacy, spirituality, usefulness, ingenuity, magnitude, beauty, and legacy. Explore the work of Haida artists Anastasia and Danielle Hendry, Thompson First Nations artist Mary Jane Joe, Musqueam artist Chrystal Sparrow, and Micmac artist Bernice Thompson, and artists in an exhibition of blankets and baskets. Pieces include button blankets, tapestries, leather cushions, and drums.  With:
Opening Reception: TUESDAY October 21st from 6-8 pm
+ November 4 - 16 -- "Think with the Senses - Feel with the Mind: Art in Fusion"
This exhibition bears the same title as a book by former MOMA curator, Robert Storr, meant to celebrate art and artists from different cultures. Join us as we showcase Lower Mainland artists Nadja & Atza Visnjic in an exhibition of fused glass art and acrylic on canvas.  With:
Opening: TUESDAY November 4th from 6-8 pm
+ Sunday, November 9: from 1 to 3 pm -- "ART CREATION ~ AN ELEVATED STATE"
Well-known Lower Mainland artist Atza Visnjic will talk about the unlimited sources of creativity we all posses and how to find and bring inspiration into our life and art.
Everyone is invited to join this FREE workshop/talk and is welcome to be inspired and inspire others. Bring your thirst [for] knowledge and curious nature to explore the inner artist in you on our collective path to discovery!  FREE -- EVERYONE WELCOME

+++  WV MUSEUM +++  Visit: http://www.westvanmuseum.blogspot.com/
The Prints of Alistair Bell  to February 7, 2009
Canadian master printmaker Alistair Bell produced some 300 prints over the span of 62 years. Impressions of Nature: The Prints of Alistair Bell examines the contemplative prints and drawings that Bell created in his home studio in West Vancouver until he passed away in 1997. Bell's main interests eschew the human in favour of solitary animals and birds, as well as atypical landscapes and vegetation, boats and harbour scenes. All of these subjects attracted Bell with their strong, often linear or angular form, and are rendered with a striking clarity and expressiveness. His remarkable ability to capture the inner essence of his subjects -- achieved through a meticulous process of observation and abstraction -- sets Bell's graphic images apart, as they have us see the world intimately and unexpectedly anew
Special Talks on Printmaking
        ~ 1:30pm ~ Saturday Nov 1 Guest Speaker: Alan Bell
Alan Bell, son of renowned printmaker Alistair Bell and graduate of the UBC Fine Arts Department, will give an illustrated talk on his father's evolution as an artist. Topics include major events in Alistair Bell's artistic career, significant influences, and inspirations. Alan will also touch on Bell's preferred subject matter, printmaking media and working methods.

To see the electronic newsletter, the address is http://kaymeekcentre.weebly.com.  Getting onto the mail list: the simplest method is to call the box office (604 913 3634) or email tickets@kaymeekcentre.com

Find out what's happening by visiting: http://www.westvan60.com/newsletter.html
or http://www.westvan60.com/Images/The%20Torch%20Newsletter%20-%20Fall-2008.pdf

In Honour of all Those who Served in the Cause of Peace and Freedom
Email:  legionbranch60@gmail.com; T: 922 3587; F: 922- 2659; Mail: 580 - 18th St, WV, V7V 3V7.
On behalf of West Vancouver, Branch 60 of The Royal Canadian Legion, I extend an invitation to Branch Members, their families, and our Community Friends to join with us in paying tribute to our Veterans. 
Veterans and Members who wish to be on parade, please report to the Sgt. at Arms prior to 1:40pm.
All in attendance are invited to a reception at Branch 60, Memorial Hall, immediately following the service.
Valerie MacGregor, Branch President.
October 23, 2008
To all Members of Branch 60, their Families and our Community Friends:
 As members of The Royal Canadian Legion, we are all aware of our oath and commitment to this great organization. Assistance of our Veterans in need is our priority and our sole reason for existence.
This year we honour and respectfully remember the 90th Anniversary of the end of WWI, and those Canadians who made the ultimate sacrifice and gave us the great country we live in today. Veterans Week, November 5 - 11 is a time to reflect on all Veterans, past, present, and those currently serving in our Canadian Armed Forces. 
As we approach our most important Fundraising event of the year, we are writing to you to express our urgent need for persons to assist with our 2008 Poppy Campaign. Our campaign this year takes place on November 6th, 7th, and 8th. On those days we have volunteers at different sites in West Vancouver, tagging poppies, and accepting donations to our Poppy Trust Fund.
The shifts for tagging are 10am-12noon; 12-2pm; 2-4pm; 4-6pm and 6-8pm. Locations include Park Royal Shopping Centre, Caulfeild Village Shopping Centre, and Ambleside and Dundarave business districts.
Volunteers should sign up at their earliest convenience. Our tagging board is prominently displayed on the east wall of our Lounge, and may be accessed daily during Lounge opening hours.
Please show your respect for our Veterans by signing up for a tagging shift. For those unable to tag, any and all donations to our Poppy Trust Fund will be gratefully accepted.
We thank you in advance for your support of our Poppy Campaign and our Veterans.
Our sincere regards,
 Valerie MacGregor, Branch President; Jeremy Woodham, 2008 Poppy Campaign Chair
 "Where Volunteers make the difference." Chartered November 17th, 1926

===  PH and COUNCIL MTG NOTES Oct 20 ===
1. CALL TO ORDER  -- two items added
ZONING BYLAW NO. 2200, 1968, AMENDMENT BYLAW NO. 4581, 2008 (File:  1610-20-4581)
Applicant: The District of West Vancouver
Affected Lands: The proposed regulations regarding floor area ratio apply generally to single family and duplex-zoned lands unless specifically exempted by other regulations or agreements.  The proposed regulations regarding grade lines and retaining walls apply to all zones.
Purpose: The proposed Zoning Bylaw amendment deals with the inclusion of covered decks and accessory buildings in floor area, and with reducing the build up of grade. 
Proposed Zoning Bylaw Amendment:
The calculation of floor area would be revised by:
Including covered decks (beyond the normal eave overhang of up to 4 feet) on the top floor of any two-storey house in the calculation of floor area.  Covered decks on the basement or first floor would remain exempt. Reducing the 240 sq. ft. accessory building exemption from the calculation of floor area to 50 sq. ft. if the accessory building is located closer than 15 feet to the house.  The Grade Line is an imaginary line above which soil cannot be deposited and walls cannot be constructed.  The proposed bylaw would reduce the slope of the permitted Grade Line as follows:
Permitted Grade Line measured 4 ft. above Current Proposed
Front and flanking (street) side lot line 75% (3 ft. in each 4 ft.) 50% (2 ft. in each 4 ft.)
Interior side lot line 100% (4 ft. in each 4 ft.) 75% (3 ft. in each 4 ft.)
Rear lot line 100% (4 ft. in each 4 ft.) 50% (2 ft. in each 4 ft.)
The proposed bylaw also:
= Provides that the proposed Grade Line restrictions would not apply to retaining walls and grades that may be required to accommodate a driveway using the most topographically appropriate route from the street to the building.
= Clarifies the Zoning Bylaw with regard to Grade Line and the waterfront by stating that the Grade Line is calculated from the registered waterfront property line.
= Provides that constructed inclined walls (such as stacked rock walls) with a slope of more than 75% (reduced from 100% under the current bylaw) would be subject to retaining wall height and spacing provisions of the Zoning Bylaw.
While not required as part of the public hearing process, for convenience as the bylaw amendments are related, all persons who wish to provide comment on the Soil Removal and Deposit Regulation Bylaw No. 3788, 1992, Amendment Bylaw No. 4582, 2008 (which would reduce the maximum outright allowable volume of rock that can be removed from a site from 600 cu. m to a maximum 200 cu. m) will be given an opportunity to be heard.
...We have received documents which may be considered by Council and they are available for your review and discussion.  A list of documents, and copies of these may be obtained from the Clerk during the Public Hearing.  Written submissions received during the course of these proceedings will be added to these documents so that everyone may examine them...
1) Reports received up to October 16, 2008:
        Interim Development Bylaw; Amendments September 19, 2008 September 19, 2008 R-1
2) Correspondence received up to October 16, 2008:
        J. & M. Rawsthorne October 2, 2008 / October 20, 2008 C-1
        S. Ward October 6, 2008 / October 20, 2008 C-2
On September 29, 2008, Council set the date for the Public Hearing...
Dir/Planning Bob Sokol gave an overview of the interim zoning (with slides), then:
Report added to PH -- angle mentioned by degree and for clarity only include percentage grade
Slides re Stacked Rock Walls, Slope and height limitation, Waterfront Property Line, Soil Removal and Deposit Bylaw
Happy to answer any questions; you can separate these also; leeway in moving forward.
Sop: re soil removal, the position we're taking is to alter volumes to reduce damage, noise, siting of a house,...  straighten out the differences.
Sokol: identified in cmnty on some sites excessive blasting, making conform to house design
this states in current bylaw max remove is 600 cu m and this reduces to 200 cu m; overblast is part of what is allowed.
Sop: once turn over to a blasting company stay within and their responsibility to sign off with the nbrs.  My take is we're doing some good things in some ways but room for a lot of dialogue....
affects ppl on a piece of rock, damage but no rights
will we look at all areas that affect nbrs?
Sokol: this is an interim; does not address blasting permit wrt nbrs or times of day, not a comprehensive look, just amt of rock removed
Mayor: Cclr Sop, can we open the PH, hear public comments, then get into discussion?
Sop: was a question, know not phrased that way
[Mayor read out process. SSch referred to reports and correspondence available in PH Binder.]
> Locke Gibbs: Dundarave; may I have use of overhead projector?
here is view from my house; floor area not as important as the size of the roof
my house and how it relates to house next door; view from living room window
in the last year or a bit more, a house built next door
this is my house and the house next door; a deck and a roof, covering
the lot next door is 15ft lower than my lot
two-storey house; roof higher than windows of my house
so corner looks like this: not a heck of a lot of view left
this is right square ctr, in our face, no attempt to discuss
He said, I have a legal right to do this and I'm doing it
wd hv bn nice to have had some talk about it
others have covered decks [see slide], not much concern of the shape of roof.
[drawing] this is a steep roof, like adding another storey
even the garage next door is in front of our kitchen window -- used to have a view and now not
[spoke while marking drawing on slide showing effect of roof; even lower down still in your face]
shd be no roof allowed aligned with the top roof; wd take away obliteration
here's another picture; I had to negotiate; he wanted to put another 10ft above existing deck.
I negotiated removal of 10ft of roof for my agreement to place iron rods into my property
to support the land with concreted mesh so it would not collapse.
talked about retaining wall.
> Katrina Dmitrenko (sp?): I'm owner of a lot on Eyremont Dr, long, narrow; we have a creek on one side and a stream on the east side
demolished house and didn't know how much rock in the middle
went through environmental permit, setbacks
now we have a rock in the middle, basement has to be under 600cu m and if reduced I see no way of building my house on a complicated lot such as mine
> Eve Whittaker: I'm retired university teacher, lived in WV 65 years and two other generations
some suggestions sound fine but if it takes the rest of 2008 and 09, too late for the surviving nbrhds in WV
I live in same nbrhd as gentleman who spoke first; I want to speak about the xxx [ cdn't hear it exactly -- densification? change?] of our nbrhd, that's what's happening
20 years ago we were promised a bylaw that said new bldgs shd fit in with what you had there
went over to Oak Bay; everyone saying beautiful, wonder what they want for that
not here, here we say, Omigawd
We live in probably one of the oldest established nbrhds, the 25th Street hill
last year or so an invasion of monster houses
built for and by ppl; they call developing other ppl's property
v naive to talk about reaching accommodations with them
technique is to pick up, and I am quoting "pick up" the nbrhd; and you know what the technique is, you cut off the view, you cut off the light, you cut off the privacy of other homes, and then the other homes aren't worth much so you can pick them up, and then you can either use it as an extension to your monster house yard, or you can build another monster house
starts the domino effect; cuts off light....
cd tell you the story of the houses that have already been ruined by the monster houses next door; I'll leave that to later if I can cadge some more time out of you
these monsters do not sell, they do not sell, even in the wonderful market that has just happened
no sane local person wants to live in a house four times the size of the houses all around it... and will probably be v unpopular if they do
the house next to me was worn out; I had about 100 ppl at the door over the course of a year; some threatening, some bullying for my property
when new owner arrived, he told me, and I'm quoting him now, he was going to be "v v rich by picking up my prop, the prop on the other side of his, and a couple across the street"
one of those wd hv bn in between mine and the gentleman who just spoke; obviously a whole nbrhd is under attack
when I said he cdn't hv my prop, he asked me when I am going to die
I pretended not to hear that, so he asked again, "so what do you think? how long do you think?"
I said: We live to be 100 in this nbrhd.
and he gave me a horrible look and said: it must be the view
Okay, then he asked me for things for what he called, my builder
My builder was going to build me a giant house
I don't need a giant house
How about another floor, so you want a second floor?
I said: this is the second floor
why don't you want it bigger?
I said, b/c it wd block the view of the house across the street; and then I thought he was going to have a seizure, and I realized that was the next thing in mind -- to block the view of the house across the street.
now a high wall has been built right down beside facing my place, on the upside of a v steep hill
the wall is taller than my house; it blocks half my view and they're still working on the other half, it looks like one of the decks you've been talking about; it's going to be covered...b/c men working under the covers
half of my light is gone and all my privacy -- and I have to be careful how I get out of bed in the morning, all my windows are not only overlooked but practically abutted to this monster next door
can I say one more thing?
over the years, ppl say, no law you have to have a view, you know; well, no law they have to have nice cars either, the ppl that say that, but they do have them, they do work hard for them but not nearly as long as I have for my house for 30 years
someone destroys their car, they get insurance, person gets arrested
our nbrhd is turning into a combination of short-term rentals and destroyed property; we are becoming white trash
> Michael Evison: I spoke to Ccl when the first reading came up weeks ago b/c I was concerned and I still am ..... and covered decks others will speak [about?] accessory
good intentions but there are some consequences
I'm a landscape designer
will leave a copy of a [design?] with you
set back of 30ft on a steep lot, with the existing allowance, 4ft in and 4ft up, you can finish up with an area of 15ft, if you adopt the proposal wd have no rear yard at all; think there's an inequity there
re stack/retaining walls; we haven't addressed the question of landscaping; if properly landscaped that does mitigate some of the issues
Blasting: again consequences not properly considered
intent to encourage builders, use surface area, not blast too much is reasonable but what this bylaw doesn't properly address is the subsurface
you can take two level lots on Inglewood/Haywood: one can be glacial till and can be excavated; the lot next door, anyone can go up to 600 cu m, means that the second house wd not be allowed to build or put in a basement
serious consequence is one of the proposals in the future is sec stes; whether you agree or not but by limiting this, you eliminate that sec ste option
the intent here is above grade and does not address below grade
> Andrew Pottinger: 4432 Stone Cr in Caulfeild, speaking as a resident and taxpayer about Caulfeild
while sympathize ....
did not feel comfortable, b/c not every prop
be careful what you wish for, now that District-wide; owners of older homes, worried about financial impact
40 years old, not a heritage treasure like Binning or Erickson
b/c I and nbrs have removed trees, great view
what sort of house can be put on site
worried that ..... seriously undermine my land view; gradient restrictions, use of back and side gardens; neither wd make more bulky; too much destruction
lose hundreds of thousands more
those lucky citizens who have already made ... to apt
deck; my nbr added one, added to; do not always limit privacy
...do not object to accessory bldgs as proposed...
pls have staff consult with ... and bldg industry; identify more precisely, better control
must be a way to prevent relatively few probs without taking away devt rights
> David Thompson: Esquimalt over 20 years, put face to letter I sent today
we also are victims -- flanking
house pushed to back; whole house raised 4ft; sloughing into our yard and ...
have elevated, to bury basement .....  front and rear
totally overlooks our back; 20 ft above my lawn,........  30
downward facing soffit lights; stairway to garage
what is this doing to my property?
other Ms, in Vancouver the residential guidelines ask you
privacy view or sunlight nbrs; will ask be altered; here no rights whatsoever
siting; house to our west built ...; canyon, bulk houses on both sides
...under siege and harassment
play the hand you're dealt... not a sustainable way to develop
> Bill Chapman: land surveyor in WV, speaking on behalf of devprs
attended 1000 mtgs over 33 years
worked diligently to
have been asked by staff to find
unfortunate some citizens and dvprs do not....
an example of cooperation
not in anyone's best interests however was approved.... rec'd a bldg permit
fully support need to review zoning ... ; technical review of zoning bylaw
however the devt cmnty concerned that some put forth not the best soln and might be a longer... to reach the right solution; interim bylaws to stop; pending a ....
propose any devt over ten acres not be affected b/c no nbrs affected
if bylaws such as this; detrimental
must site-specific soln; work with staff; appeal to Ccl, so that good devt approval in a reasonable amt of time
environmental approval process a good example of devts working with staff for best soln
facing a long time, succumb to a worse soln that does not require Ccl approval
applicant appears immediately believed trying to get something not permitted, wearing a black hat
considerable time and expense to bring you a white hat soln, better than permitted
Your proposed bylaws here tonight, counting covered verandas on second floor, and including accessory structures over 50sf in FAR are good housekeeping amendments and we applaud you for bringing some of these forward
re grade, heights, v complex; believe impacts not fully explored
a staff mtg with devt industry to work something out, evaluation criteria for applications.... may be a better approach
blasting issues are even more complex [photo up here, and bell dings a bit later]
a lot to be said for blasting if done -- this picture 1400 cu m of rock removal approval of all eight nbrs; example of a well-prepared soln; unanimously approved by Ccl, well received; however over ten months, and this delay not available to most clients
may I continue?
thank you
reduction 600 to 200 hurts the larger properties, whereas only minimally affected
600 applies to footprint of 4200sf, can't have that on a 5K sf lot
av home in WV 350cu m under the current bylaw -- 600 only large sites with large ...
maybe reduce to 4ft pending comprehensive review
with..... without Ccl review and approval ... so that a good devt can be brought in timely manner
[slide re ht, 68 cu m, overbreak 128 cu m]
65% is overbreak
Ccl has a strong devt step
citizens if given opp can work with staff for a unique soln that works for all cmnty
concerned unintentional result lowering prop values without owners' knowledge
not close PH; improve bylaw; intended results
> Fazimir Yadegari (sp?): I'm an architect, working on N Shore for 27 years; know a lot about zoning and how it works
new amendment have some merit but don't think any of them achieve what citizens want them to achieve....
mentioned staff need to be adjusted
amendments do not address any of them
..... no effect on others
as Bill suggested, removal of rock proportional to size of lot, now fixed; shd be relative
same for ....
some things not relevant, still accessory, ..... even bulkier bldgs
50 ft of accessory doesn't do anything, just a little shed
understand what wanting to do but doesn't address; accessory has effect on smaller houses but only if RS5
doesn't matter; parking; still you can do that as detached unit
if a lot without a lane, you get punished for that
if steep slope, again affects this bylaw
lots of ramifications haven't really been considered; maybe needs an architect to go through, not just planners
wrt second storey -- 45ft setback
means ...  slope north to south, roughly....
...remove over living space, remove roof, rainy a lot of problems
in Vancouver C2, set back 20 ft on third floor, is a disaster; done without considering technical issue
better to cover, have it open, but don't let rain go to living spaces, a lot of ... issues
Bill talked ... lose landscape area; some of the lots on upper Brit Prop, if go to xxx wd be impossible to build
maybe more freedom; to work based on the lot; not just on basic lot, v rigid
> Mark Kolebaba (sp?): my main concern is changing the grade of the retaining walls
this has more of a negative impact
house in Bayridge area, steep, well-established, devping under current bylaws
can't see how changing the grade will change character of WV
75% to 50%, can't see benefit, where comes in, changing of grade
great way to try to ruin character of areas
if it's the retaining wall you don't want to see, plant vegetation in front
if safety, any wall over 3ft has to be engineered
a lot of steep areas building retaining walls ...
isn't going to help cmnty; negative impact, think it will drop the value
go up on flat lots; trying to build safe playing areas
if new bylaw passed, restrictions on steep lots decreasing value
as a family, alter your space or go out and buy a flat lot; steep lots will drop in value and flat will increase; a lot of families will have to move out; small chn; don't think intent of Planning Cmte
WV is v chn-oriented; consider needs of families
... isn't a good idea
> Scott Brown: 2539 Mathers; what I've learned here is that we have a complicated situation, large and smaller pattern on a grid
my concern relates to massing as it relates to small lots
it's the smaller lots on the grid plan where excessive bulking and xxxxx
allow to build where privacy and prop values are altered
ask you specifically identify props that have taken advantage of these loopholes
over X ft on an X ft lot
no way for a human eye to ... delineation of house and an accessory bldg; challenging for surrounding nbrs
some have talked about tonight
long-standing citizenship,    make WV a great working cmnty
my request is we identify certain props on an indiv basis, every lot shd be considered on its own merits
maximum capacity on small grid formed lots
> Nona Weaver (sp?): appreciate opp to able to speak about probs wrt blasting and soil removal
another older home in my area taken down
blasting ensued, built by devprs, blasting for weeks
concerned wrt damage to my house, ultimately turned out to be the case
v little recourse; insurance companies not eager to cover this thing
whereas..... of area
this is changing; bigger better is the norm these days
v unfortunate, my house built in '64 for my parents architecture design, fit into landscape, a little blasting
blasting a few years later but not to the extent
not to extent; whole diff situation
above Capilano GC and all of the homes are on base rock
has to be some envtal aspect so nbrs not affected; determined how affect others in area
built on bed rock, third house, has been affected, roof, fireplace, furnace
next door nbr, roof, both driveways, carport jolted off foundation
not able to live in house all ...
been advised to go to insurance companies, not prepared to ... ; still without remedy
think there shd be some things that
my house was outside the 50m range, used to notify; I was not notified; area of notification v v limited; needs to be attended to
geological assessments; permits, a formal request with reasons why nec
all blasting sites shd be monitored
prob in WV; needs to be some kind of formal arrangement made whereby ppl had inspected
can find remedy
if these things are done ...
CR: Good evening, Carolanne Reynolds, Editor of West Van Matters
So glad to see this interim zoning has come to us.  You'll recall last Sept that the Dundarave Nbrhd Assn made a presentation about the effect on the nbrhd of the bulk of houses -- more mass b/c of interpretations, so it was urged that closer adherence to the intentions of the OCP be made.
Cclr Day hoped this wd come to us in March, but with a new Dir/Planning and the resulting demands, we are pleased that it is at least before us now.
My concern remains wrt covered decks.  The amendment only counts those on the second floor.  Pls count covered decks in the FAR regardless of level.
Staff said ground level was not intrusive but I beg to differ on at least two grounds:
1)  Decks add to the bulk and massing, and we're trying to REDUCE monster homes/houses.
2)  This is intrusive b/c of the slope; we live on a mountainside and the slope means that the decks on the ground floor can still block adjacent nbrs' views.
And I noticed earlier tonight there were pictures wch (of a deck) blocked the view b/c it's beside.
Thank you for bringing forward this interim bylaw.
Please don't count decks only on the second floor [storey].  Please include all covered decks.
Thank you very much.
> G Rentsch (sp?): have lot for sale; concerned proposed will affect; one of the last lots left in Canterbury
large lots, v large homes to maximum Marlowe Place
sometimes even combining three lots
in Canterbury we need to acknowledge we do live in.....
... smaller bungalow homes... character of Canterbury is large and exclusively tree-level homes
introduction of smaller-sized homes
view of residents on Pine Crest Dr ... restrictive covenant prospective ...
had Chapman survey, devt potential of the lot; following Bill Chapman's recommendations
height less than current bylaws allow for
4700sf home, David Poskitt [builder], determined potential purchaser..  in size and style
site wd most likely need to be excavated
in particular prev owner..... 1628 Pine Crest Dr another 3 ft
suggested by S J Nicholls; providing an exemption to Marlowe Place  .... this problem
wd like to continue to market this, esp in view of the current market downturn
ask be given an exemption and grandfathered to be able to devp under existing bylaws
> Mark Ballard: 4725 Caulfeild
given Ccl all a copy of my letter
bylaws to remain current, ... lack????
amend four diff bylaws; ppl I've been speaking to, not really a requirement
if building accessory as a dodge then that's a loophole that shd be closed
.... child safety
covered decks no longer exempt so required to trade interior space for exterior
speaking as a realtor, can't market as a bigger home

{DUH! well, exactly. The regulations were an attempt to prevent monster homes, well at least smaller than they cd be.  No surprise devprs/builders try to get around this to build bigger ones.  That's why this has to be stopped.  The will of the cmnty is strongly against monster homes.  In fact, though, it isn't really a case of a monster home, rather it's a question of a lot that's too small.  That's why it looks big (monster).  This claim is what spurred me alas to speak again to counter.}

potential privacy and views
probably need less control
rock removal bylaw, find kind of interesting
[slide]  2700 sf brand new home with 1600sf basement, Kings at 19th
not enormous; look as
[pointing] dotted square is overblast
4ft larger than footprint of the home
calcs; don't understand how we came from 600 to 200 and how came down to
max allowable coverage
affordability and sustainability of families
moving out, going to university, moving back here and can't
this bylaw goes in the face
whole generation of homes built without basements
future, may include...
> Mayor: CAO has a comment
CAO: some remarks rather disturbing; come and see me
where this information comes from; wd like to have this addressed
Mayor: no one on list
Man: may I speak again?
> Russell Hollingsworth: 5747 MDr; resident of M for about 45 years
having read and analyzed the proposed revisions
two main concerns: first content and possible impact to built form; secondly process bring these amendments
bn working in architecture and design all my life as my father who is 92
started working with him when bylaws a couple of sheets of paper, now need a Philadelphia lawyer to get through them and don't see an improvement
a few minutes, if approved, a long term deleterious effect
emphasis in my own practice
study of how to site bldgs to make the best of any given location
incredibly complex and diverse of topography of WV, always felt opportunities, relationship to land
live in western end, ...
particularly from 29th St to western end
recall as a small boy sailing around West Bay, etc ... and ... clinging
poetic kind of character, brutal and raw
riding bicycle, MDr carved ...
WVites and thousands of tourists marvel at this road ...
intimate relationship with the rock...
when MDr was shifted
[with these bylaws?] wd not have a railway, wd not have the Upper Levels; wdn't be living here; certainly wdn't be using our toilets
Roads and services punched through
as a young man these alterations upsetting to me, and repeatedly asked why not left alone
now benefit of looking back 50 years and see how these subdivs grow
individs enjoy ...
some bad examples, balance good
part of Brit Props looked like clear cut ... around Golf course, now trees lack of light....
voices in our cmnty .... rock and frightened how to deal with it
roads...  if some wd have their way ... design... a fallacy and highly misleading
when 25 years old, lived on nine acres by WVYacht Club; house sits on a relatively large lot
Mayor: over five min; can you come back?
RH: wanted to give some examples of houses that cd not be built
Mayor: you have time but we can come back to you
> Peter Miller: retired architect; sorry not here at beginning of presentation; close to my heart
inclusion adjoining nbrs; be notified; something that really upsets me; can be ameliorated at v little cost
notifying the nbrs, having a mtg, explaining ... exterior materials; really hate that pink stucco; cedar siding I cd live with; feel been respected
second is to do with streetscape
v great character, houses on Chippendale, Canterbury, v diff to character to lots lower down slope in Dund, streetscape a park-like setting; trees and foliage
v often we don't know what's going on up the driveway but quality if walking up and down the street
when dvpr is allowed to sweep away bushes and
black top like a beautiful set of teeth with one missing
think streetscape shd be part of bylaw
> David Thompson: ... given a submission on paper
after I spoke, prob some ppl in devpr industry; not allowed to build as big and high
search of affordable housing, diametrically opposed
wanted to speak about before, the process; speaker before touched on it
nbrs get no warning, no input; stated in my letter; devt proposal for house next to me
can do whatever... roof... trusses... suddenly sky deck overhanging our prop... probably lit at night
I got a little steamed; got [DWV] switchboard, passed around
told basically allowed...  a big deal.. irrevocably... totally destroyed atmosphere and enjoyment of our prop; hung up thought I'd get a response
looked at paper, let's go ...  see why so ticked
well, did some errands and a WV Policeman in my yard; you'll be taken down; arrested; phoned city hall; shut up and put up; I was appalled; there is no process
 > CR:  Excuse me, I know you will all realize this, but I wd like to say there is something about looking at the glass half full, and the glass half empty.
Cclr Day and I were on Ccl when we reduced the FAR from .45 to .35.  We were v proud and happy to do that.  The concern was monster houses.  It is rather disconcerting to see that that concern is still here today.  One of the reasons it's still here, we've learned is that, as someone mentioned earlier, some ppl have found loopholes in what we've done to still build bigger houses than was anticipated in the OCP.   And one of the reasons was not counting [covered] decks, etc.
So I wd like to say to those ppl who say that it's lowering the value if they can't keep using the loophole to build bigger houses, that the will of the cmnty was to try to prevent monster houses. 
I wd also say to ppl, if you want a bigger house, buy a bigger lot!
> Lock Gibbs: ... exclusions... recent thing
the decrease in property value argument is a bogus argument.
the occurrence of covered decks is a recent thing.
Problems with house bulk has been here for 20 years
covered decks can have two sides filled, a 42" railing at the front where the only gap is to the roof
the owner can put heaters there; all of these covered decks are living space
value has been increasing
as Carolanne said, when the FAR was reduced from .45 to .35, that was to reduce the bulk of the house.
think we shd go back and address covered decks
if you have two or three acres, doesn't really matter
more leniency for larger lots
covered decks on small lots need to be addressed in a much more forthright way
Mayor: Ccl wants to discuss
> FY again: test to find where rockbed is; get to soft soil
so you can put foundation, if this bylaw goes ahead and if not for load-bearing
something underground, can't put where rockbed is
shd be relative to the size of the lot, not an absolute figure
> Mayor: Ms Whittaker
> Ms Whittaker: [photo] those are what's laughingly known as nbrs; look v carefully you can see another house below beneath it
> RH: just wanted to give a few examples
a few things we've built that cdn't be built under the bylaw
slide: this is a house I built years ago, 2200sf cdn't be built today, lot cd take 10K
no trees cut down except one ... caliper tree
here's another, foot of 29th St, Kalke residence, it also won an award after being built, cdn't be built today

{But it cd be with a variance, as VV points out later: this gives controls and indiv props request variances, gives Ccl opp to see if desirable, etc.}

house in Lower Caulfeild, Thompson residence, maximum blasting at the time resulted in being able to site back of lot so cd retain landscaping
cdn't be built today
another house proud of, built just down the road went to LCAC helped establish, took abuse, went at it a second time, ... bought by  developer, wanted monster house built, cd take 17000sf but built 6500sf, from road can barely see it, saved a garden famous in books
if you cdn't build on this lot wd destroy it; trucked almost no rock away, used all the rock in the garden; cliff, kind of seamlessness
lastly, this house, Poetics of West Coast Modernism, cover is one of my houses, this house a very modern house -- just returned from cross-country tour -- this house removed the maximum allowable at the time, cdn't be built today if this bylaw goes through
interesting and at the same time disturbing
sorry taking up so much time, cut me off whenever you want to
I'll just flip through to the end
catalogue; many cdn't be built under this proposal; unfortunate
expression of current and future architects; say that all the bad examples that happen

{why leave lack of regulations allowing bad examples?}

staff concerned not for good ones but for bad ones
this amendment is an attempt to stop that but I think that if you restrict ppl from giving good examples, more champion mediocrity
better to try to govern for what is good than for what is bad
always be bad; good examples inspire us to a better... of life
up to leadership of Ccl if I may, you do a wonderful job
emphasize the positive, not negative, allow diversity ...
in 70s and 80s WV was the place for aspiring and mature architects all over the wrld b/c art in built form Erickson, Ron Thom, Barry Downs -- was how they sited houses
influenced architecture around the world
terrible to restrict that from happening

{Ah, yes.  Well, we lost the Graham House last year.  It was designed by Arthur Erickson on an 'unbuildable' lot -- stepped down on the rocklevels down to the water; warm wood and 'designed with nature'.  Wanna bet the cliffs will be blasted for the new house of concrete and glass?
But really, no one can seriously suggest or believe that great architectural designs will be prevented by these amendments, b/c a variance can be sought for them and their value surely wd be recognized.}

about the process, with all respect and not being critical
preamble talks about ... with citizens and stakeholders
myself, one of the largest builders employ 100; 15 years of building in WV
struggling with what I'm passionate about; approached staff a couple of times; realize great changes in staff, but I did say that I wanted to have a voice in this, and to air my views
I found out about this change the evening after the first reading
really wasn't a process with those concerned
Mayor: ?
RH: many ways to make acceptable the removal of rock
and do believe shd be more stringent, how done, timing
sad to hear comment from lady who had house damaged
we've been involved in [many?]...   all my life never damaged a house, monitored
mystery to me how that happened; shd find out how it happened and why
as popn and GVRD grows, WV has some responsibility in showing leadership in building on steep slopes
imp not continue to chew up flat land; sustainability issues go, we need our farmland, one of most productive and fertile valleys in the world, not just WV but all steep lands up the valley
> NW again: coming back to where blasting took place
City has had variations; 150m notified, yet with blasting is
not limited
50m is an international standard and that's inappropriate for a local area as far as envtal impact goes
yet with variance 150m so that definitely has to be adhered to
not intl standards but to our cmnty as a whole
Mayor: Cclr Day, close or adjourn?
RD: wd like to make some comments first
Vancouver has its own Charter; WV can only control through zoning
we can't initiate a process that? have to neg with nbrs, but Vancouver can
Mayor: shd correct that
Sokol: we are restricted what we can do vs Van
RD: by LGA; Caulfieild Heritage zone, steep

{he's referring to the Lower Caulfeild Adv Cmte, LCAC}

control mainly through zoning bylaws
respond to what Mr Hollingsworth has said
quite right: fallacy that size value, it's quality not size
designed homes below, but more valuable b/c fit in, design
excessive size insensitive to terrain
two aspects of bylaw we shd move ahead with
one: covered decks and accessory bldgs, where we shd move promptly
the others more consultation...  Chapman; blasting
My preference wd be to close the PH, and move ahead with decks and acc bldgs and have process for blasting/soil
understand can close
Sokol: we can, b/c not consulting on this bylaw; result wd be a new bylaw wch wd be brought forward to Ccl
RD moved: be received and closed
Mayor: no seconder
MS: I'll second it
Mayor: discussion about this and what cd follow
Sop: at election time there will be three of us left
there will be four new who will need time b/c of complexities
bn here... takes time to
new planner, takes time to ......
also had a WG that brought in  -- what needed wrt housing choices
then we have had Mr Gibbs, etc, their nbrhd, garden, view, .....
as we go forward, have to take a serious look
likes of wch we have never seen before
seen here tonight, has to have a public process in place
so that end result has hit all the earmarks and decisions come out of this
at crossroads, imp to choose right path
Mayor: question is on closing the PH
Sop: wdn't close it at this point in time
how look at in future, soil has far-reaching effect, where sustainability of next Ccl
JF: I too will be unable to support this motion this evening, not that I don't agree
I think ev mbr of Ccl was moved by comments in last three years
residents who have had a serious ... diminishment
insensitivity such as decks on second storey, and acc bldgs
so we felt passion about this and drove us to look at this; to protect all residents
but in hearing some of the comments and reading some of the letters
need to do it properly not quickly we might regret later
not close but to adjourn; allow staff to speak to some of the ppl who spoke this evening
apply to all nbrhds or just est'd nbrhds, another above
need to be considered
some portions to est'd nbrhds and some for future nbrhds; differences in sites and nbrhds
JC: I won't be supporting closing this tonight either
seems to me yellow flags going up all over this room; land values, design, design with nature,
to close this tonight wd be a case of ready, fire, aim, and I don't think we want to do it that way
one question comes to my mind, and from Cclr Day oddly enough, he chaired Rodgers Crk WG and just recently gave approval to it; haven't heard anything about effect on that project
will demand/require excavation and blasting
whole issue much bigger than let's just get it done
wrt RCrk, what impact; make us look silly if we rush forward with this; in favour of adjournment
MS: certainly not in favour of adjournment
absolute fiasco, cmnty has been waiting for this Ccl to do something to act, to do something to protect the nbrhds, for years; absolutely nothing has happened
as I understand Cclr Day's motion, it's to take the two, um, I'll quote from Mr Chapman, his excellent report, counting covered verandas on the second floor and accessory structures over 50sf lying closer than 15 ft to the principle bldg are good housekeeping amendments
after all these years of doing absolutely nothing, at least pass a sensible housekeeping amendment.
Ms Whittaker referred to the 25th St hill; I live at 27th and Ottawa and when I leave my house in the morning for the last few years, I go up the 25th St hill, go up Queens, Palmerston, Nelson, Ottawa, Mathers
can't count number of times I've had to back back down the hill, place looks like Beirut, pickup trucks all over the place; lots are just sculled right off; drive around Jefferson, Kings, Lawson, in Dundarave, and all these huge houses with covered decks almost touching road
Clearly a loophole in our bylaw
if we can't at very least, pass these two, Mr Chapman's words, minor housekeeping amendments
we're not saying you can't build a covered deck on the second floor, we're just saying if it's got a roof over it, and it's enclosed on three sides, surely to God common sense wd dictate that it shd count in the FAR, the floor space!  to do absolutely nothing is just not acceptable
agree a lot more study re soil and blasting, grade lines, and that sort of thing; fair enough
Agree with Cclr Day that we shd hold off on those
The cmnty is looking desperately for some kind of leadership from this Ccl and previous Ccls who did nothing
as one gentleman said, what's wrong with expecting somebody building a new house in a nbrhd to respect the nbrs, knock on the door, and explain what he's doing?
We need to bring these kinds of bylaws forward so ppl can live in their house and not have it look like a construction zone
It's not acceptable and I see it ev day when I drive around Dund and 25th St hill
for us to do nothing sends a totally wrong msg; time we stood up and at least pass these two v minor housekeeping items, I say
VV: on the whole I agree with Cclr Smith on this, I wanted us to act over a year ago
app what we've heard from architects and indivs who feel their prop value might be negatively affected. but I think [fewer] problems if we pass this and expect an increased volume in applications for variances
those shown to us by Mr H, they seem to be indiv props, and might come to us for variances anyway; less harm, passing this and accepting attentions to variances so that we don't cause undo problems b/c that's not the intent.
We intend to do something about the v real problems; some suffered real harm and will continue; almost too late now; some beyond being restored
don't want to impede legitimate indiv expression, but we have processes for allowing that; on whole, on balance better off to proceed
RD: to close is not to cut off public input or discussion but to facilitate passing two housekeeping amendments, covered porches and acc bldgs; need to move on those; items where ev day we see those problems and we need to solve that
if we adjourn we're simply lumping these two into the more complex ones
we shd move quickly to do the obvious
then take the other items and can continue to discuss them
even if we close, we can still ask staff to engage public and devt cmnty on those issues, blasting
area above Upper Levels is different, going to have to have different rules for infill than below; staff needs to discuss this with public and devt cmnty
in the meantime, let's move ahead wrt covered porches and acc bldgs
JF: wd mover and seconder accept an amendment that these components be kept to established nbrhds
Mayor: closing or not closing; opp we give ourselves by closing the PH; we can start fresh on Monday, can kill the things, act on things we want to act on quickly
the disadvantage of adjourning is there's an idea out there that ppl can't really work with, and I think if we're trying to do a better job and a more nuanced job, it might be better to start fresh; but that wd be my argument for closing the PH.
to adjourn is to create further confusion, and we can provide a little bit of forward momentum, can provide better direction next Monday
JF: I cd accept, with that amendment
Mayor: soil amendment not even part
JF: to est'd nbrhds
Sokol: we can make amendments to the bylaw; typically done at second reading
Mayor: then we can make amendment to bylaw at second reading; so reason to close
so clear on 27th
JC: still, understand where this is going and don't entirely disagree
but if closed cannot receive new info
seems to me enough unanswered questions; shd keep discussion going
and put in an interim statement that puts a degree of control over these two issues
still think adjourn so can address these
if we can meet next week, then we can judge it accordingly
Sop: biting my tongue, three left, might be six new!
understand; for all those who have seen problems
don't feel these two are just housekeeping
what Mr Lock or this lady what she has faced

{he means Lock Gibbs}

what do we want WV to look like?
see some nbrs exasperated and angry have to take the time to discuss, without pointing fingers
here's the logical position; some knowledgeable ppl here wrt design and survey
Mayor: not passing
Sop: can't receive
Sokol: nothing wrt this particular bylaw, but wrt blasting, can
then create a new bylaw; add'l info at that time
Sop: but I may want to hear and explore it more
important we do certain things, big deal; also have Dialogue coming, what we want to see; a lot coming, out west; not meant as a slam, need the Dialogue, wrong to cut off anything; not quick fix thing
RD: not a quick fix.  I can tell you I sat on Ccl from 1987 to 1997, and on Ccl from 2001 to 2008
been on Planning Commission in between and before; it's been 25 years we've been talking about this for 25 years; we have done a few things, tighten restrictions, do have regulations, better than they used to be, but we've talked and talked and talked, done too much talking, not enough action
we know there are problems with those covered roofs and we know probs with those acc buildings, and we've got to move on them, and we don't need to talk anymore about that
The other issues we do need to talk about, blasting for example, side walls, this kind of thing
These two issues we need to move, and that's why I want to close the Hearing and we can get plenty of discussion on the other issues in the future.
Mayor: I'd like to ask Mr Sokol.  There seems to be consensus in Ccl and the cmnty that we cd do a better job of grade, side walls, and blasting
what wd be the best way to consult as we've been requested to do tonight?
close PH and give clear direction on Monday? or adjourn and continue to discuss Monday what's been presented tonight
Sokol: option that gives most opportunity to Ccl to move forward is to close PH, at second reading, amending bylaw identifying, separate motions; pass two and change for other two for input
provides clearest, if just adjourn, it kind of leaves things open-ended
Mayor: ask Clerk
SSch: closed, if Ccl wishes to bring it back; notification
Mayor: close PH and return it to Ccl Oct 27, in favour?
MOTION CARRIES {opposed: Sop and JC}
Mayor: debate on Monday and hope provide some momentum on these issues
[9:28 and most left the Ccl chamber; resumed 9:34]
Mayor bangs gavel (lightly)
1.  APPROVAL OF AGENDA -- withdrawal of 4; and Madam Mayor has a new item 5.1
SSch: devt application/bldg permit re 856 Anderson Cr
2. Adoption of September 29 and October 6, 2008 Council Minutes
Mayor: Before we begin, a couple of announcements
dreadful fire on MDr family and cmnty suffered; they've lost absolutely everything
WV Firefighters' Charitable Society is collecting donations for them; you can drop by Fire Hall No 1 or call 604 999 9291; also congratulate the Fire Dept and Police Dept for their response that day. Thanks for their service.
Our friend and nbr Murray Dykeman passed away a week ago; extend on behalf of cmnty our deep sympathy; his Thursday 1pm at St Catherine's in Edgemont; will certainly be attending on our behalf.  He was a leader, a father, a coach, and famous for saying he was living the good life in NV.  When he said it everybody nodded and felt that way too.
Now our CAO has an important introduction to make
CAO: v honoured and take great pleasure in introducing Brent Leigh, new Deputy CAO
Comes to us from the District of Squamish where he was the Deputy Administrator.
Also managing director of Squamish Sustainability Corporation since 2004; has been Prez of the Whistler Ch of Commerce
Executive Dir of Sq Envtal and Economic Devt organization
an author, 1999, book called  The [?] Journey to Sustainability
instructor at Cap College; Director of ..... and.....
brings experience in private and public sector; Credit Union systems
1992 to 1995 principal...
planning and devt for Expo 86 dir for Daon Devt in San Francisco
Master's in Interdisciplinary Studies; married with two chn
welcome him in great anticipation, look forward to working wth him
born and raised in WV, gone to school here
so, welcome
BL: thank you for your support and Grant's
listened to that and I think I shd be retired by now
v much appreciate; hope I can bring some value; look forward
[See press release at http://www.westvancouver.ca/Level3.aspx?id=11974]

2. Adoption of September 29 and October 6, 2008 Council Minutes

3. Spirit Trail Greenway -Next Steps (File:  1785-19)
RECOMMENDED: THAT the report dated October 10, 2008 from the Acting Director, Engineering & Transportation, entitled "Spirit Trail Greenway - Next Steps" be received for information.
Raymond Fung: 13th, eastward, Staff's intention to move forward
new info, Sq Nation, on their agenda this week; hope to start behind Pk Royal
if not through, then start with section through Amb Prk
13th St westward, to CEC simply recommend a Spirit Trail WG be established process to work with residents; conceptual design down to specific through nbrhds
just rec'd for information at this time
JF: in receiving for info does that meant the T of Ref will be taken to the CEC
Mayor: Yes
4. Society for Prevention of Cruelty to Animals (SPCA) Licence and Operating Agreement - Alternative Approval Process (File:  1145-06)
5. Waterworks Regulation Bylaw No. 4490, 2006, Amendment Bylaw No. 4584, 2008 and Sewer and Drainage Utility Fee Bylaw No. 4538, 2007, Amendment Bylaw No. 4585, 2008 (File:  1610-20-4584/1610-20-4585)
RECOMMENDED: ... be read a first, second and third time.
RL: this report recommends rates be amended for third and fourth quarter of 2008 to correct an underbilling in the first two quarters of 2008; the rates we applied in the first two quarters did not implement the rates approved by Ccl in that they failed to take into account the 10% discount provided for in the bylaws and as a result of that customers with a median level of consumption for example had been been underbilled by $29 for water and $26 for sewer in the first half of the year.
By amending the rates according to these bylaws we will recover those underbillings in the second half of the year.
After implementing those amended rates, utility rates in total will reflect a 3% increase increase in water and a 10% increase in sewer as originally approved by Ccl back in Dec 2007
Item 5.1 [ADDED to the agenda]
Mayor: I don't have the report in front of me; we added it to the agenda, Ms Scholes
Sokol: wrt to zoning bylaw FAR specifically as it applies to bldg permit application for 856 Anderson Cr
Oct 6 Ccl resolution to forward to Ccl all in conflict with interim; staff have reviewed and contradictory to proposed bylaw; we're reporting to Ccl; place this on hold pending outcome of your decision on the zoning bylaw
Mayor: is there a mbr of Ccl with the working in front of them?
MS moved: on hold for 30 days....
Mayor: I have a question; this application is in process; is there an opportunity, b/c I don't think Ccl familiar with this; is opp for them to come to Ccl?
Sokol: They can; the area where inconsistent has to do with a covered deck so over the FAR by a few
Mayor: in favour?  CARRIES
6. Tax Exemption Bylaw No. 4577, 2008(File:  1610-20-4577)  ADOPTED
7. Correspondence List (File:  0120-24)
        -- Correspondence received up to October 3, 2008
        -- Correspondence received up to October 10, 2008
(16) C. Reynolds, West Van Matters, October 6, 2008, regarding Comments on the Finance Committee and 2009 Budget* [whole letter was at end of this agenda in the last issue, WVM29]
Mayor: congratulate WVPD on Cops for Cancer fundraiser, thx to host
had two ofcrs ride for a week; funds for camp for chn with cancer go to in summer.  Success.

CR: Thank you, Mayor Goldsmith-Jones.  It's just a couple of questions for clarification,
I wrote a letter to Mayor and Council on May 16, I have a copy of it here, and I asked what the normal time is for a reply to correspondence.  And I haven't received a reply and I know that I asked you, Mayor G-J; and you said you wanted to know what it was to look into it.  I have a copy here.  The three questions from May 16 are:
No 1 is the outline of the tendering process
No 2 is the reason for the average of a 9% wage increase in one dept when it was 3% for staff
and the third question was, um, if the Chief, er, our darling new Chief Administrative Officer is on staff [nervous laugh] or on contract.
{too bad we don't have delete buttons on our mouths!  I didn't want to sound critical, and searching for a complimentary word in too much haste resulted in something more positive than intended!}
So, those are the three questions that were from May 16, and so I'd like to know when a reply to those three questions might be expected.
Mayor: We will answer those questions as soon as possible.  I think that Ms Scholes does an outstanding job of answering your questions on an almost daily basis.

{This is not at all true; clearly an exaggeration -- wonder why.}

I'm sorry those slipped through the cracks but we'll get you an answer.
CR: These were not questions for Ms Scholes, so I don't want to say anything about that.  Yes, Ms Scholes is marvellous.
{Another strange diversion -- Ms Scholes has nothing to do with answering those questions; looks like they're for the Dir/Finance.}
Mayor: thank you
CR: but what is the normal time? that is the next question.  Ppl have asked me b/c others have asked questions and not got a reply.
Mayor: usually we respond immediately.  I'm not sure if there's a standard outside limit to that.  Ms Scholes?
SSch: We have an acknowledgement process for all correspondence and if the correspondence has been referred to a director, it depends on the issues or queries that hv bn raised, but usually the turn-around time is within one or two weeks.
{Maybe it's that the M Clerk's Dept dutifully sends out the acknowledgement but there's no tracking system to record when the answer is sent.  In Public Correspondence, I have noted that there's a section for "Responses to Questions Asked" -- btw, something I asked be included so that if someone asks a question in public, the answer is public b/c residents/listeners might want to know rather than a letter simply sent to the person asking and then no one sees it), and have seen replies from Brent Dozzi re traffic and Kevin Pike re Parks.}
Mayor: thank you
CR: if there's no reply, at what point shd a citizen ask, is the other question I've been asked.
Mayor: always welcome to call us or email us or come to Ccl.  I think we're v responsive as an organization and as cclrs.
CR: tyvm.
Mayor: anything else?
JF: I'm sorry but I just find the comment wrt our CAO as 'darling' completely inappropriate, and offensive.
Mayor (to me): There's no need to comment on that
CR (mortified at misinterpretation): I'm terribly-- I will apologize.  I didn't mean 'darling', I meant--
Mayor: and thank you, Cclr Ferguson
[some laughter]
CR; [--no disrespect; rather to be complimentary]
9. ADJOURNMENT -- JC then moved adjournment (just before 10pm)

*  After the mtg, of course I rushed up to Grant McRadu to again offer my apologies personally and he was extremely pleasant about it.  He had not taken offence and seemed surprised it was even brought up.  Obviously he had taken it in the spirit meant.  Enquiries over the next day or two revealed it was much ado about nothing.  No one bothered about it, and it was understood by my stumbling I was searching for a nice word (and not as successful or apt as intended).
*  In any case when I asked these questions at the Finance Cmte, they didn't answer and wdn't put letter on the agenda so I wrote to Mayor and Ccl.  After I sent it and waited a while, I asked again but still nothing.  (You'd think mbrs of the Finance Cmte wd want to know the answers if not other mbrs of Ccl.  Why didn't anyone answer verbally tonight?)
*  I'd asked at least three cclrs if the new CAO was on contract or on staff and none of the three knew.  The last CAO was on a three-year contract.  Depending on the contract and conditions, it can be easier and cheaper with a contract -- no severance pay, for example.  Furthermore, one can argue more accountability b/c if not up to snuff, Ccl can decide not to renew the contract.
While the first two questions might take a few sentences to answer, to answer the third just needed two words.  Why avoiding it?
*  So you see, while it is an important matter to know (and I'm still incredulous it wasn't simply answered at the ccl mtg when asked), I was trying to be v careful not to have it reflect unfavourably on the CAO b/c the decision to hire and how, is Ccl's.

===  COUNCIL AGENDA Oct 27th  ===
2.  ADOPTION OF MINUTES -- October 20, 2008 Public Hearing.
3. V. MacGregor, President, West Vancouver Branch 60, Royal Canadian Legion, regarding Veterans' Week November 5 - 11, 2008 (File: 0055 20 RCLE1)
4. Community Heritage Register (File:  2585-03-04)
1.  Report from Senior Community Planner dated October 17, 2008 titled "Community Heritage Register"
2.  Memo from Chair and Vice-Chair of Heritage Strategic Plan Implementation Working Group titled "Completion of Community Heritage Register Project and Working Group Recommendations for 'Next Steps'"
1.  the four properties identified as: 1281 Clyde Avenue, 6028 Eagleridge Drive, 4773 Piccadilly South, and 3380 Westmount Road be added to the West Vancouver Community Heritage Register, pursuant to Section 954 of the Local Government Act;
2.  the eight properties listed in Appendix 'A' to this report be deleted from the nomination list for the West Vancouver Community Heritage Register; and
3.  the remaining 127 nominated properties listed in Appendix 'B' to this report remain eligible for addition to the Register at a future date.
5. Eagle Island Docks (File:  1785-27)
RECOMMENDED:  THAT funding in the amount of five hundred thousand dollars ($500,000) for the replacement of the Eagle Island mainland and island docks be considered by Council through the 2009 Capital Budget deliberation process as a municipal capital project.
6. Society for Prevention of Cruelty to Animals (SPCA) Licence and Operating Agreement - Alternative Approval Process (File:  1145-06)
1.  WHEREAS the District, subject to the outcome of the alternative approval process referred to below, intends to enter into an agreement with the Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals (SPCA) to provide use of a shelter premise and adjacent outdoor facilities on District owned land known as Ambleside Park and legally described as PID: 015-995-411, and "those portions of District Lot 237 in Explanatory Plan 4012, Group 1, New Westminster District", to permit the Society to provide animal control services for and on behalf of the District for a term of 10 years;
2.  AND WHEREAS under the proposed Licence and Operating Agreement the District agrees to pay to the SPCA in the event of termination the depreciated value of the shelter premise in an amount equal to:
     1.  The Initial Compensation Value ($491,000) reduced by $24,550 per year after 1997
     2.  And agree that after January 1, 2017, the value of the Shelter shall be $0.00
3.  AND WHEREAS, pursuant to section 175 of the Community Charter, Council may incur liability under an agreement for more than five years only with approval of the electors by elector assent or by alternative approval process under Section 86 of the Community Charter.
4.  AND WHEREAS the Municipal Clerk will make available to the public during regular business hours copies of the Licence and Operating Agreement and records relating to it as of the date of the first notice of Alternative Approval Process published pursuant to Section 86 of the Community Charter.
5.  NOW THEREFORE Council resolves as follows:
     1.  An Alternative Approval Process will be provided in relation to the liability to compensate the Society that would be incurred under the Licence and Operating Agreement.
     2.  Elector responses shall be in the form before Council this day.
     3.  The deadline for elector response forms shall be 4:00 pm on December 12, 2008.
     4.  The Municipal Clerk is authorized to prepare and publish a Notice of Alternative Approval Process.
     5.  A fair determination of the total number of eligible electors of the District of West Vancouver is 34,357.
7. Development Permit Application No. 08-035 for Area 1 of the Rodgers Creek Area (located north of Chippendale Road and immediately west of Marr Creek) (File:  1010-20-08-035)
Please see attached report.
8. Development Permit Application No. 08-026 for 1434 Marine Drive (File:  1010-20-08-026)
RECOMMENDED: THAT the Municipal Clerk give notice that the Development Permit Application No. 08-026 for 1434 Marine Drive which provides for internal and external tenant improvements to an existing building will be considered at the meeting of Council on Monday, November 17, 2008.
9. Community Engagement Committee - Status Report (File:  0116-20-CEC)
1.  The Community Engagement Committee (CEC) provide a working group orientation session for new working groups, and
2.  Council accept that staff time for meeting facilitation and note taking is needed, and that if a working group requires additional resources beyond regular meetings, a budget should be submitted to Council, and
3.  A meeting space inventory has been compiled and will be managed by the CEC support lead staff (Pascal Cuk), and
4.  Council amend the Guidelines for Working Groups for clarity on the role of elected trustees and School District 45 staff members, and
5.  The CAO ensure that the Guidelines for Working Groups are adhered to and that an on-going monitoring program be implemented.
10. Zoning Bylaw No. 2200, 1968, Amendment Bylaw No. 4581, 2008 (Floor Area Ratio) - Building Permit Application for 856 Anderson Crescent and 2313 Nelson Avenue (File:  1010-01)  --  To be provided On Table.
        {What's the rush so that we have no info?}
11. Zoning Bylaw Rewrite - Creating a Contemporary Bylaw (File:  2515-24)
RECOMMENDED:  THAT the recommended process for undertaking a comprehensive update of the Zoning Bylaw as described in the October 15, 2008 report of the Associate Director of Major Projects be endorsed.
12. Zoning Bylaw No. 2200, 1968, Amendment Bylaw No. 4581, 2008 (Interim Development Amendments) (File:  1610-20-4581)
This bylaw received first reading at the September 29, 2008 Special Meeting of Council, and a Public Hearing was held on October 20, 2008.
RECOMMENDED: THAT Zoning Bylaw No. 2200, 1968, Amendment Bylaw No. 4581, 2008 be read a second time.
RECOMMENDED: ... be read a third time.
13. Soil Removal and Deposit Regulation Bylaw No. 3786, 1992, Amendment Bylaw No. 4582, 2008 (File:  1610-20-4582)
This bylaw received first reading at the September 29, 2008 Special Meeting of Council.
RECOMMENDED: THAT Soil Removal and Deposit Regulation Bylaw No. 3786, 1992, Amendment Bylaw No. 4582, 2008 be read a second time.
RECOMMENDED:  ... be read a third time.
Bylaws are passed by a simple majority vote unless otherwise noted. Each reading of an Official Community Plan bylaw or bylaw amendment must receive an affirmative vote of a majority of all council members (majority is 4 members) in order for the bylaw to be adopted.
14. Official Community Plan Bylaw No. 4360, 2004, Amendment Bylaw
No. 4541, 2007; Zoning Bylaw No. 2200, 1968, Amendment Bylaw No. 4540, 2007; and Development Permit No. 07-027 (445 13th Street) (File:  1010-20-07-027)
Official Community Plan Bylaw No. 4360, 2004, Amendment Bylaw  No. 4541, 2007 received third reading on July 28, 2008.
Zoning Bylaw No. 2200, 1968, Amendment Bylaw No. 4540, 2007 received third reading on July 28, 2008.
RECOMMENDED: THAT Official Community Plan Bylaw No. 4360, 2004, Amendment Bylaw
No. 4541, 2007 be adopted.
RECOMMENDED: THAT Zoning Bylaw No. 2200, 1968, Amendment Bylaw No. 4540, 2007 be adopted.
RECOMMENDED: THAT Development Permit No. 07-027 which would provide for 4 two-storey townhouse units, with 8 parking spaces under the building, be issued.
15. Waterworks Regulation Bylaw No. 4490, 2006, Amendment Bylaw No. 4584, 2008 (File:  1610-20-4584)
This bylaw received first, second, and third readings at the October 20, 2008 Special Meeting of Council.
RECOMMENDED: THAT Waterworks Regulation Bylaw No. 4490, 2006, Amendment Bylaw
No. 4584, 2008 be adopted.
16. Sewer and Drainage Utility Fee Bylaw No. 4538, 2007, Amendment Bylaw No. 4585, 2008 (File:  1610-20-4585)
This bylaw received first, second, and third readings at the October 20, 2008 Special Meeting of Council.
RECOMMENDED: ...be adopted.
NOTE: The recommendation to set dates for DVPs or DPs should be done in a separate recommendation from the regular consent items (SS June 26/06)
17. Correspondence List (File:  0120 24)
        RECOMMENDED: THAT the Correspondence List be received for information.
Requests for Delegation  --  No items presented.
Action Required
1.  October 17, 2008, regarding Traffic Circle Construction at the Intersection of Skilift Place and Chairlift Road
        Referred to the Director of Engineering and Transportation for response.
No Action Required (receipt only)
2.  Committee and Board Meeting Minutes
(a) West Vancouver Memorial Library Board - September 17, 2008
3. D. Charlton, Lionsview Seniors' Planning Society, October 9, 2008, regarding Community Dialogue on Neighbourhood Character and Housing
4.  A. Shwetz, B.C. Hydro, October 15, 2008, regarding Community Relations Update for Fall 2008
Responses to Correspondence
5.  P. Goldsmith-Jones, Mayor, October 10, 2008, regarding Request for Proclamation of October as Autism Awareness Month
Responses to Questions in Question Period  --  No items presented.

Catch The History Boys and By Some Divine Mistake; no time for more; hope in WVM31

===  ANIMALWATCH  === 
+++ A fawn and a vixen have become unlikely walking partners at a wildlife sanctuary in Warwickshire.
+++  Spa in Israel; snake massage

===   WEBWATCH   ===  Geography: Waterfalls, 4000 islands (Laos)
Khone Phapheng Falls
The Khone Falls is a waterfall on the Mekong River in Laos in the Champasak Province near its border with Cambodia. The Khone Falls are the main reason that the Mekong is not navigable into China.
The falls' total height is 21 meters (69 ft) in segmented cascades (or rapids) stretching over 10 kilometers (six miles) of the river's length. The average discharge of the cataract is nearly 11,000 cubic meters per second (3 million U.S. gallons per second), though the highest volume on record was reached at over 49,000 cubic meters per second (13 million U.S. gallons per second).
The area of the falls is dotted with islands and countless waterways, known as Si Phan Don (meaning 4000 islands).

===   NEWSWATCH   ===  Zimbabwe's inflation now 231,000,000% (recent stat)


Three old gals are out walking.
First one says, 'Windy, isn't it?'
Second one says, 'No, it's Thursday!'
Third one says, 'So am I. Let's go get a beer.'

Morris, an 82 year-old man, went to the doctor to get a physical.
A few days later, the doctor saw Morris walking down the street with a gorgeous young woman on his arm. A couple of days later, the doctor spoke to Morris and said, 'You're really doing great, aren't you?'
Morris replied, 'Just doing what you said, Doc: 'Get a hot mamma and be cheerful.''
The doctor said, 'I didn't say that. I said, 'You've got a heart murmur; be careful.'

A little old man shuffled slowly into an ice cream parlor and pulled himself slowly, painfully, up onto a stool. After catching his breath, he ordered a banana split.
The waitress asked kindly, 'Crushed nuts?'
'No,' he replied, 'Arthritis.'

===  POLICEWATCH  === 
After an armoured car was robbed in front of a bank in Monroe, Wash., police were reasonably confident they'd find the culprit: the man was wearing a yellow vest, safety goggles, a respirator mask, and a blue shirt. But when officers arrived, they found more than a dozen men dressed that way. They were all responding to an ad on the Craigslist site for road workers, who were told to meet at the bank at that time wearing a "Yellow vest, safety goggles, a respirator mask ... and, if possible, a blue shirt," one of the men recited. The robber has not been found. (Seattle Times)
...Let's hope the cops looked through all of their identical lunch boxes.
[Copyright 2008 by Randy Cassingham, reprinted with permission. Subscriptions to his "This is True" column are free at http://www.thisistrue.com ]

===  ECONOMY/BANKWATCH  ===   :-)
If you love British Humour and want to laugh your head off while really getting a  good grip of what is going on in the financial markets, enjoy watching this video:

*** The Man Who Reads Dictionaries: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/7654511.stm
*** And a  PALINdrome: "Peeks at foe Russia, is sure of task. Eep!"

===  HAIKU  ===
written 2008 October 18 -- a hopeful haiku............

        tides' powerful waves
                move oceans; yet still
                        break on the rocks of steel truth

written 2008 October 24 -- in the midst of campaign............

        try to keep head up
                swimming in a sea of knaves --
                                without a snorkel

===  QUOTATIONS  ===

Journalism is publishing what someone doesn't want us to know, the rest is propaganda.
                        -- Horacio Verbitsky, journalist (b. 1942)
You are not only responsible for what you say, but also for what you do not say.
                        -- Martin Luther
The world is divided in to three classes of people: a very small group that makes things happen, a somewhat larger group that watches things happen, and the great multitude which never knows what happened.
                        -- Nicholas Murray,  (b. Liverpool 1952)
I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around the banks will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered.
                        -- Thomas Jefferson in 1802
Politics is not the art of the possible. It consists in choosing between the disastrous and the unpalatable.
                        -- John Kenneth Galbraith
A politician needs the ability to foretell what is going to happen tomorrow, next week, next month, and next year. And to have the ability afterwards to explain why it didn't happen
                        -- Winston Churchill
Men in authority will always think that criticism of their policies is dangerous.  They will always equate their policies with patriotism, and find criticism subversive.
                        -- Henry Steele Commager, American historian (1902 - 1998)
We can have facts without thinking but we cannot have thinking without facts.
                        -- John Dewey, American reformer (1859 - 1952)
Almost all our faults are more pardonable than the methods we resort to to hide them.
                        -- Francois de La Rochefoucauld, writer (1613-1680)
If you want to be thought a liar, always tell the truth.
                        -- Logan Pearsall Smith, American essayist (1865 - 1946)
If a man who cannot count finds a four-leaf clover, is he lucky?
                        -- Stanislaw Lec
"Don't screw it up, buddy!" ~~ What Michelle Obama told her husband Barack, the Democrat candidate for the White House, before he made a big speech.